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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Y'know, I'm thinking the reveal image for Tangle is a cropped version of a variant cover for issue 4.

If you look at the "Tommrow[sic]" image from yesterday, you can see the knees and lower legs on her silhouette. Only herself from the thigh up are visible on the reveal image.

Case in point:

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Not to mention that you can see less of Sonic's shoe cuff on the reveal image.

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1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

i feel like that sort of thing isn't about what it is, its about how its told

a lot of my favorite super heroes have cliche backstories, or started the cliche. So I think you should focus on less what it is and more how its communicated 

That's not something I'm trying to dispute. I hold that position as well for the most part. The foundation behind the idea being presented is still something that leads to one's expectations being tempered when what's being presented is, on the surface, incredibly predictable and uninteresting as a concept. It being cliche isn't the issue so much as it is feeling incredibly lazy. Cliches aren't inherently lazy but the manner of their execution can be. Should they say they're going to do all that I listed up there again, I wouldn't be excited for it. However, that isn't to say I'll reluctantly continue to hate it if by some miracle they pull it off in a way that tells a story that interests me. 

"Oh man, this is an excellent, originally told story that took a boring, predictable premise and made it something truly remarkable and special in my eyes... but I guess I have to hate it because I said I didn't want this premise in the first place. Oh well."

I doubt that'll be something I say even if I do still believe a part of me wishes it stemmed from something different. 

There's also the fact that the expectation I have for a superhero's backstory is most likely going to be different depending on the medium I'm focusing on and which character it is. Whether or not they have an established character already or if they're starting off as someone completely new has to also be taken into account. Not to mention, what the backstory means for the character and whether or not the backstory in and of itself truly matters or not.

I'm just speaking in terms of the context of these comics and what I believe the positions these characters will probably have. 

In other words, when it comes to this, I feel it has a chance of mattering a bit more.

There's also the fact that the way the backstories were handled in the Archie comics weren't something I liked or appreciated all that much and that's coloring my perception. Understandably. 

 

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ANother female companion, man Sonic is so patrician in making females oc male leads other than Amy rose outside of games. Can't we get the main focus on characters tha people actually like and have the biggest fanbases? 

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2 hours ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

For some reason I always saw Sonic's family as snooty rich assholes only concerned with wealth and public image. The idea of them being redeemable seems cheap to me.

...What. Context?

6 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

ANother female companion, man Sonic is so patrician in making females oc male leads other than Amy rose outside of games. Can't we get the main focus on characters tha people actually like and have the biggest fanbases? 

Yeah, I raised the latter issue myself. And the first one is technically a subset of why some people had a bad reaction.

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9 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

ANother female companion, man Sonic is so patrician in making females oc male leads other than Amy rose outside of games. Can't we get the main focus on characters tha people actually like and have the biggest fanbases? 

What offshoot of Sonic has done this, aside from SatAM and the comics which were conceived before Amy existed in the games?

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6 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

For a while TBH, you could legit not introduce shadow for like a hot minute. Its gonna be lit whenever he comes through so, folks can wait. And for characters like infinite, we can just if sega wants to use him anymore and wait to introduce him

No this bs is why I dislike archie shadow because when he had focus, Ian never knew what to do with him on a bigger plot standpoint because despite being a major player in the games he's treated like a mild minor character cult favorite that Ian brushes off for more of Sonic and friends, Shadow is always get treated unfairly and brushed aside in apparences and treat his character inconsistently due to not bothering to expand him more than 12 showings compared to the main gang and eggman. Shadow's the second most popular character in the franchise, and he should be showing up as much as Metal Sonic at least.

IDW is damn stupid if they are gonna show Shadow in small doeses like before, they need to pay attention to the actual fans for once instead of the purists who share loathing for the character and the newbies, the franchise won't grow if it is gonna play it safe. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

No this bs is why I dislike archie shadow because when he had focus, Ian never knew what to do with him on a bigger plot standpoint because despite being a major player in the games he's treated like a mild minor character cult favorite that Ian brushes off for more of Sonic and friends, Shadow is always get treated unfairly and brushed aside in apparences and treat his character inconsistently due to not bothering to expand him more than 12 showings compared to the main gang and eggman. Shadow's the second most popular character in the franchise, and he should be showing up as much as Metal Sonic at least.

IDW is damn stupid if they are gonna show Shadow in small doeses like before, they need to pay attention to the actual fans for once instead of the purists who share loathing for the character and the newbies, the franchise won't grow if it is gonna play it safe. 

 

To be fair, Shadow was only such a major/main player for so long because the plot almost constantly about him or at least gave him a distinct place of emphasis in the plots. Even his return in Forces, while definitely rather piecemeal about it like in many areas, ultimately couldn't help itself about the recurring trend of giving him closer ties and/or knowledge about what's going on than Sonic. The later games dealt with smaller, more whimsical threats that was generally outside the scope of him and the high leveled, darker dangers that he was very associated with.

The comics was always primarily about Sonic & the Freedom Fighters vs. Robotnik and whatever forces he had to send at them--a conflict Shadow would obviously have little part in. Plus, SEGA itself ended up setting up the situation anyway by having him join GUN alongside Rouge(who almost always appeared in connection with him) in 06, meaning he was officially given his own place in the world much like the Archie!Sonic and Archie!Knuckles. Add in the fact that he was occasionally played up as being lethal to make him much more anti-heroic than Sonic and you can see another incentive for why the comic--a medium that thrives on having recurring faces for the heroes to fight--generally either kept him in his own bubble or pitted him against threats that are explicitly at a higher level than usual; Treasure Team Tango was very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

Now I admit that while part of me would've logically expected the fourth issue to include him if the solicits had been coming out before the teasing of the new character, I feel like choosing the absent for Forces Blaze was the better choice. I think/feel it should've been just/mainly her in the spotlight instead of Tangle, but it was better choice. Plus, that only means Shadow will likely get his own issue to debut in not too far down the road.

 

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41 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

...What. Context?

What I mean to say is that Sonic cares about his friends. As previously discussed, he's prone to just run off wherever, but he always does come back to the people he likes. To have his parents just be nice, normal, respectable people would feel incongruous with my personal perception of the guy, because he's basically deserted them forever, and I don't think he'd do that to anyone but bad people.

That is, until SEGA comes out and says he's either  an orphan/never met his parents (which would more than likely be applied to every character to keep many more questions from coming, which would feel totally cheap), or visits them regularly between games which we'll never see and they won't let the comics show so it might as well not be true at all.

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I hope that the comics aren't canon to the games, because now SEGA has an even TIGHTER grip on the comics, and that means none of these "what-if" scenarios, creative freedom, and it can never contradict the games or what SEGA says.What if SEGA doesn't let Ian fix Forces' mistakes? What if they make Ian shoehorn Classic Sonic? What if they never resolve things like Tails being a pussy? I don't have real hope unless it is separate from the actual game continuity.

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, Shadow was only such a major/main player for so long because the plot almost constantly about him or at least gave him a distinct place of emphasis in the plots. Even his return in Forces, while definitely rather piecemeal about it like in many areas, ultimately couldn't help itself about the recurring trend of giving him closer ties and/or knowledge about what's going on than Sonic. The later games dealt with smaller, more whimsical threats that was generally outside the scope of him and the high leveled, darker dangers that he was very associated with.

The comics was always primarily about Sonic & the Freedom Fighters vs. Robotnik and whatever forces he had to send at them--a conflict Shadow would obviously have little part in. Plus, SEGA itself ended up setting up the situation anyway by having him join GUN alongside Rouge(who almost always appeared in connection with him) in 06, meaning he was officially given his own place in the world much like the Archie!Sonic and Archie!Knuckles. Add in the fact that he was occasionally played up as being lethal to make him much more anti-heroic than Sonic and you can see another incentive for why the comic--a medium that thrives on having recurring faces for the heroes to fight--generally either kept him in his own bubble or pitted him against threats that are explicitly at a higher level than usual; Treasure Team Tango was very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

Now I admit that while part of me would've logically expected the fourth issue to include him if the solicits had been coming out before the teasing of the new character, I feel like choosing the absent for Forces Blaze was the better choice. I think/feel it should've been just/mainly her in the spotlight instead of Tangle, but it was better choice. Plus, that only means Shadow will likely get his own issue to debut in not too far down the road.

 

Why would archie give a damn about putting him in gun anyway, he wasn't anymore a ruthless pragmatist loner than he was in his own debut, he didn't need to be written as a Soilder or Agent like Rouge. 

 

Shadow is also supposed to be the planets protector. His story can still expand away from GUN which is a minor plus for him since shadow in his game should have abandoned ties to instead of making them a staple of his character progression, and also brought the controversy of humans not being totally fitting with Sonic. Shadow being more violent and brutal works in a world with Sonic, how many god like beings have brought dark tones to the series, heres something that Sonic Team and Sonic comic writers can give him that branches him from typical Sonic the Hedgehog plots, Sonic fights the worlds deadliest scientest and god of the month in his typical break neck lighthearted nature, Shadow faces the more lovecraftian and horror elements that shth brought to the series and being he's rooted to chaos emeralds and chaos control he could be some sort of magic/sci fi anti hero that goes on retributions to the more vile and evil beings and characters that puts Eggman in a better context, Infinite for instance seems like a perfect Shadow villain for him solo wise and can match Shadow to boot in dark ruthlessness and abilites. Archie just tried to hard to make him sonic like in story development than a individual that foils the hero in every way. 

Blaze feels out of place in a typical sonic adventure plot, she's like Shadow that she operates on her own themed context in the Sol demension away from Sonic's general basic team up, it sucks that it seems Blaze isn't gonna do anything substancial character wise that gives her the fleshed out development and dynamic she had in her own game. But even more so than Shadow, when Shadow has to be a Sonic sidekick and fanservice for a typical sonic story, it ruins his appeal and substance. 

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39 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, Shadow was only such a major/main player for so long because the plot almost constantly about him or at least gave him a distinct place of emphasis in the plots. Even his return in Forces, while definitely rather piecemeal about it like in many areas, ultimately couldn't help itself about the recurring trend of giving him closer ties and/or knowledge about what's going on than Sonic. The later games dealt with smaller, more whimsical threats that was generally outside the scope of him and the high leveled, darker dangers that he was very associated with.

I liked that, not to be rude to sonic but sonic's like this free spirit that's running around and shit. And Shadow's this alien that has sort of like dedicated himself to justice in a job like capacity. Its difference between goku and Superman. I'm totally ok with the guy who treats heroism as a job being more aware and involved with the goings on of the world than sonic is. And sonic being this guy who see's some shit going down in the distance goes " I guess I gotta be a hero" and does that. Its why I didn't like the freedom fighters, I kinda felt like it went against sonic just being a guy who likes to be a hero and wants to do the right thing and turned it into a job. 

I think sonic boom while silly was kind of better at that, because it mixed the two

39 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

The comics was always primarily about Sonic & the Freedom Fighters vs. Robotnik and whatever forces he had to send at them--a conflict Shadow would obviously have little part in. Plus, SEGA itself ended up setting up the situation anyway by having him join GUN alongside Rouge(who almost always appeared in connection with him) in 06, meaning he was officially given his own place in the world much like the Archie!Sonic and Archie!Knuckles. Add in the fact that he was occasionally played up as being lethal to make him much more anti-heroic than Sonic and you can see another incentive for why the comic--a medium that thrives on having recurring faces for the heroes to fight--generally either kept him in his own bubble or pitted him against threats that are explicitly at a higher level than usual; Treasure Team Tango was very much the exception rather than the rule.

I don't think the gun situation was a real excuse though, one because there were games where shadow showed up on his own accord. Also gun often sent shadow out to fight egg man. Further more Shadow would have a thing with trying to help people and would problably pissed at " having to guard the president " that was rouges thing. The reaosn that he was gone during all that is for some of the reasoned you mentioned. He's lethal, he has a different vibe to him, but a 3rd reason the guy would problably end a lot of conflicts quickly. The  guy's really strong , they even excluded him from the plot of forces kinda because well.. he broke out of infinite whole deal in the span of a couple minutes could have solved the plot with everything he knew and beat up infinite. Well until he summoned sun, that's broken.

I guess my point is, him being with gun didn't fix things but rather made it more painfully aware of the issues with writing that characters into plots. Also I think team dark and gun is dumb and it shouldn't be a team. Because it makes the plots always about shadow and Rouge could get some shine if team dark disbanded. 

39 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Now I admit that while part of me would've logically expected the fourth issue to include him if the solicits had been coming out before the teasing of the new character, I feel like choosing the absent for Forces Blaze was the better choice. I think/feel it should've been just/mainly her in the spotlight instead of Tangle, but it was better choice. Plus, that only means Shadow will likely get his own issue to debut in not too far down the road.

 

I agree about the blaze thing, but i'll take what I can get. As for shadow, I think its far down the road. You can fit quite a few more characters between introducing shadow 

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1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

IDW is damn stupid if they are gonna show Shadow in small doeses like before, they need to pay attention to the actual fans for once instead of the purists who share loathing for the character and the newbies, the franchise won't grow if it is gonna play it safe. 

 

Shadow isn't playing it safe. It's freaking Shadow. They're not bringing him back yet because they don't want to tell stories with him yet, there's no anti-Shadow crusade.

1 hour ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I hope that the comics aren't canon to the games, because now SEGA has an even TIGHTER grip on the comics, and that means none of these "what-if" scenarios, creative freedom, and it can never contradict the games or what SEGA says.What if SEGA doesn't let Ian fix Forces' mistakes? What if they make Ian shoehorn Classic Sonic? What if they never resolve things like Tails being a pussy? I don't have real hope unless it is separate from the actual game continuity.

We've been told it would be a new continuity.

1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

Why would archie give a damn about putting him in gun anyway, he wasn't anymore a ruthless pragmatist loner than he was in his own debut, he didn't need to be written as a Soilder or Agent like Rouge. 

Maybe Ian just prefers having characters tied down to roles. 

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My 2c about the news, I like her, she's got a unique design, she's an animal that hasn't been used before, as well as an ability that differs from the other cast in her extra "hand". I could see her even being at home in the games, and providing an interesting Ristar style of gameplay if it were to ever happen. That to me makes her a very well thought out and interesting character without even needing to see her in action. Her description while rather female Sonic'ey does give some idea as to what her personality will be like however, that and the poses and action shots we have seen.

She's far more interesting to me than say... the likes of Shadow or Silver. Even the recent Infinite who while he had points for being a new animal, and a fairly interesting design, was mostly hidden under a stupid looking mask that was clearly there to try make him more dark/scary but failed on both fronts. The only thing it achieved was making people want to see what was under it.

Whoever is to blame for this wonderful new addition. Ian for the concept? Tyson for the design? I thank you!! I just wish Sonic Team would learn a thing or two from the other ends of the franchise as far as design and difference goes.

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I too am curious about who gets the credit for Tangle. Over at IGN, one of the editors said her concept was the result of a brainstorming session, so we likely can't attribute all the credit to 1 person. I would like to know which artist did the original mock up though.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Tenko said:

 The only thing it achieved was making people want to see what was under it.

 

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/24313931/no-one-cared-who-i-was-until-i-put-on-the-mask.jpg

 

Sorry. Had to do it.

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Guys, do you think like me that Classic Sonic has no place in the comics? I hope Sega never decides to force Flynn to use him.

Sonic has always been one character. Many characters had their designs changed, but that didnt mean the 2 versions had to team up.

Take for example Mickey, Donald, Marvel superheroes, Lucky Luke (from the famous french graphic novel), Gaston Lagaffe (another famous french comic character).

All of them had classic designs, (I am not talking about incarnations) but imagine if their creators were always teaming up 2 Donalds, or 2 Lucky Lukes... I'd personally stop buying these comics because these characters, like Sonic, are meant to be rather individual, free, capable of having their own adventure without the need for their classic self alongside them to attract nostalgics. (I want to clarify I'm not being mean to nostalgics, they got a great game "Sonic Mania", and even I loved it, and it didn't need Modern Sonic, so why Forces had Classic Sonic?)

MickeyMeetsMickey_7528.jpg17879890_1410938038926207_84525163111661

So I hope that Flynn is not forced to do this rather awkward, cringey maneover.

I am glad that they said there will be no Classic Sonic, I hope they keep that word.

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5 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

ANother female companion, man Sonic is so patrician in making females oc male leads other than Amy rose outside of games.

We rarely see anyone past Sonic, Tails, and Eggman in the games anyway.

Plus, in a cast with only 4 Female Heroes and 2 Female Villains, Tangle is a welcome addition to the franchise...so far.

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Can't we get the main focus on characters tha people actually like and have the biggest fanbases? 

Tails, Amy, Knuckles, and Blaze say "Hi".

Though if you want, they could have been lazy and just copied and pasted a randomized Avatar from Forces instead of making a brand new character based on an animal that hasn't been Sonic-ized yet.

Better yet, they could have 7 Avatars wearing the Shadow Cosplay Gear. We could call them "Shadow Force".

5 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

No this bs is why I dislike archie shadow because when he had focus, Ian never knew what to do with him on a bigger plot standpoint

Wasn't Shadow present in the first story Ian did for Archie Comics?

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because despite being a major player in the games.

He didn't appear in Unleashed, Colors Wii, or Lost World.

Even if we count the side games, iirc his last game appearance was in Colors DS.

Then again, this is not a problem exclusive to Shadow.

Quote

IDW is damn stupid if they are gonna show Shadow in small doeses like before,

If Shadow appeared in every issue, people would get tired of seeing him, regardless of his popularity.

Kind of like what happened with the Wisps and recently with Classic Sonic in Forces.

Quote

they need to pay attention to the actual fans for once instead of the purists who share loathing for the character and the newbies

I think that's why Tangle exists now.

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Shadow is also supposed to be the planets protector.

He's doing about as good a job as Knuckles does protecting the Master Emerald.

Quote

Blaze feels out of place in a typical sonic adventure plot, she's like Shadow that she operates on her own themed context in the Sol demension away from Sonic's general basic team up, it sucks that it seems Blaze isn't gonna do anything substancial character wise that gives her the fleshed out development and dynamic she had in her own game.

If we swapped Blaze for any character in Issue 4, except Shadow, would you still be saying the same thing?

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5 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I hope that the comics aren't canon to the games, because now SEGA has an even TIGHTER grip on the comics, and that means none of these "what-if" scenarios, creative freedom, and it can never contradict the games or what SEGA says.What if SEGA doesn't let Ian fix Forces' mistakes? What if they make Ian shoehorn Classic Sonic? What if they never resolve things like Tails being a pussy? I don't have real hope unless it is separate from the actual game continuity.

I really hope not. They did this with Sonic Boom - try to tie in the comics, the tv show and the video games in one big brand - and look what happen. No, they really do not have to do this. I mean, in 2019 we will probably get the Sonic movie and with this movie they will likely produce a game with it. And if the rumors are correctly than this upcoming Sonic movie is going to be a reboot of the first SA which means that the new game will be the next big reboot for the whole Modern era, since, an this is now official, the Classic era is now it's own separate timeline, which means we have to take own a new start for the modern era in how the characters met and what their backstories are, and if the comics will be tied in with the movie and the reboot, than this mean they have to put in Tangle some how into the story like they did with Sticks in Boon, which means she has to become one of the new main recurring characters of the next generation of games.

 

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4 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

The only negative I have about it is the continuation directly off Forces.

That said, I look forward to the world building and characters getting to be more involed than the games.

For me I would have no problem if only there was no Classic Sonic in it, because it shows Sega's lore disrespect.

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Classic Sonic will probably get his own miniseries, like he did with Mega Drive, a separate universe and a separate comic, he will talk, most likely, and characters who may show up in that comic are probably the Hard Boiled Heavies and the Hooligans, which I wonder if they can be used in the main comics too, I hope so. I hope in both universes. I mean, there will definitely be some Classic miniseries, because look at how popular Mega Drive was, and how well it sold. Classic sells, when done right.

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4 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Classic Sonic will probably get his own miniseries, like he did with Mega Drive, a separate universe and a separate comic, he will talk, most likely, and characters who may show up in that comic are probably the Hard Boiled Heavies and the Hooligans, which I wonder if they can be used in the main comics too, I hope so. I hope in both universes. I mean, there will definitely be some Classic miniseries, because look at how popular Mega Drive was, and how well it sold. Classic sells, when done right.

I am not against a classic series, but PLEASE don't make Classic and Modern Sonic teammates! It's so forced and useless! And Sonic Forces is the proof! (Generation doesn't count because it was supposed to be a one-time thing).

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I'm looking forward to these IDW comics! I was never able to read Archie, as there were way too many issues. But with this fresh new start I know I'll be able to read it from the beginning, which excites me. Also, Tangle looks cute, I'm interested in what her personality is like.

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I don't mind it leading from forces. If anything what I hope is Sega of Japan gets a clue and works more with others now. Though the comic issepeeate they could use chapters or characters in side stories if ian writes.  cause ST sure can't

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I have a theory (THEORY, not 100% adamant opinion) what's Shadow's problem: he's too big.

He's got more complex backstory than Sonic (who has none), more powers, calls himself "Ultimate Life Form". He's a sorta guy who needs big story from definition.

Instead, he got to get punched by Enerjack. And Scourge and Adam andd Super Scourge. Then he got SU which few small stories, with small threats (and he loses a lot, which really bums him out). Then he has a comedy brawl in Treasure Team Tango. Finally Worlds Collide, where he's not allowed to do anything impressive (unless you count saving dr Light).

I'm not saying that any of those stories is bad on it's own, but if you look at from wider perspective you'll say "man, he never got to beat Dark Enerjack or Finitevus or stuff like that"

He had it slightly better in Reboot, but most of his apperance he spends fighting good guys (strange pattern) rather doing something meaningfulll. His greatest victory ("Shadow Fall" is copy of Shadow the Game on smaller scale and he didn't got to score win over his true enemy, Eclipse (not "big-fair-epic-no'buts'-sort" of victory anyway). In comparison Blaze melted her enemy and sunk Death Egg, Silver had godzilla fight, while Knuckles gets Championship, fight with Protoman and many smaller victories.

Compare it to Sonic X season 3, where he gets to beat giant Metarexes, goes Super with Sonic in the finale and that one time he went after Cosmo, he smashed through all defenses like freaking Terminator (I still like Knuckles VS Shadow fight there more than one from Archie). Shadow is a character that feels most comfortable when he gets to do something big. But aftter 2001-2006 period, his glory days are sorta over. It's not that visible in spin off games, while Black Knight, Generations and even Boom just made him bad guy again (which sooorta works, I guess, that's whole other can of worms). Forces is defnitely a strangle example. He's evil... but no boss fight. He has his own DLC... which ends abruptly and he never interact with Infinite in main game... but he's playable. So I guess it makes it ok?

I think (and hope) I made my point. Shadow can't live from cameos and small roles like Big or Chaotix, he comes out kinda boring in those. He needs to go on a epic quest to save the world... except that's Sonic job and Shadow isn't allowed to co-share this status, not anymore. This is why I kinda like idea of him working for GUN. Image of him doing  "Black Ops" stuff behind curtains means he potentially saves the world as much as Sonic, but quiter without fanfare. It fits him.

If you dissagree, I'm not going to defend my position (I'm sure I made few Chaotix fans squint their eyes). Like I said, this is just a theory that was stuck in my head for a while.

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