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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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They might make an equivalent to Sonic Universe, it's a pretty good idea and it's the best way to give other supporting characters the spotlight rather than just making them secondary character in Sonic's stories.

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42 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Raising sales plus filling pages. Without them, this would be 2 issues tops... and probably better story.

Which  would've been fine by me. Then, we could've had either another 2 issue story or we could've started the next arc already

 

34 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

They might make an equivalent to Sonic Universe, it's a pretty good idea and it's the best way to give other supporting characters the spotlight rather than just making them secondary character in Sonic's stories.

I hope so. Although I suppose they could also just have different stories/arcs with different stars on occasion.

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1 hour ago, Josh said:

I'd like more stories about Rouge with Shadow as a tag along. 

I disagree with this part because I would rather rouge just interact with others. She's been hanging out with shadow for a hot minute, maybe she can hang out with ANYONE ELSE

1 hour ago, Josh said:

To actually answer the question,  put Shadow in situations that actually show what kind of hero he is instead of always going back to the "his past" well for ideas. The comics were actually decent about this.

I agree with this though. The eclipse stories mentioned were pretty cool because he strait up suggests to knuckles maybe he has been wasting his life doing what he's doing and is revealed that knuckles actually... thought about it. Like he caused like actual introspection and stuff , in the end amy used dumb friendship powers to make knuckles for get having introspection . But I like the idea of shadow being the type of hero that is very to the point, blunt and good at his job. to the degree in which it makes people question, why they do what they do. Shadow's an interesting dude, and can allow for characters to think about shit they normally wouldn't think about and vice versa. Like I dunno maybe Vanilla makes him a cake and he's never had cake before. So you know... levels

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I have a theory (THEORY, not 100% adamant opinion) what's Shadow's problem: he's too big.

He's got more complex backstory than Sonic (who has none), more powers, calls himself "Ultimate Life Form". He's a sorta guy who needs big story from definition.

Instead, he got to get punched by Enerjack. And Scourge and Adam andd Super Scourge. Then he got SU which few small stories, with small threats (and he loses a lot, which really bums him out). Then he has a comedy brawl in Treasure Team Tango. Finally Worlds Collide, where he's not allowed to do anything impressive (unless you count saving dr Light).

I'm not saying that any of those stories is bad on it's own, but if you look at from wider perspective you'll say "man, he never got to beat Dark Enerjack or Finitevus or stuff like that"

He had it slightly better in Reboot, but most of his apperance he spends fighting good guys (strange pattern) rather doing something meaningfulll. His greatest victory ("Shadow Fall" is copy of Shadow the Game on smaller scale and he didn't got to score win over his true enemy, Eclipse (not "big-fair-epic-no'buts'-sort" of victory anyway). In comparison Blaze melted her enemy and sunk Death Egg, Silver had godzilla fight, while Knuckles gets Championship, fight with Protoman and many smaller victories.

Compare it to Sonic X season 3, where he gets to beat giant Metarexes, goes Super with Sonic in the finale and that one time he went after Cosmo, he smashed through all defenses like freaking Terminator (I still like Knuckles VS Shadow fight there more than one from Archie). Shadow is a character that feels most comfortable when he gets to do something big. But aftter 2001-2006 period, his glory days are sorta over. It's not that visible in spin off games, while Black Knight, Generations and even Boom just made him bad guy again (which sooorta works, I guess, that's whole other can of worms). Forces is defnitely a strangle example. He's evil... but no boss fight. He has his own DLC... which ends abruptly and he never interact with Infinite in main game... but he's playable. So I guess it makes it ok?

I think (and hope) I made my point. Shadow can't live from cameos and small roles like Big or Chaotix, he comes out kinda boring in those. He needs to go on a epic quest to save the world... except that's Sonic job and Shadow isn't allowed to co-share this status, not anymore. This is why I kinda like idea of him working for GUN. Image of him doing  "Black Ops" stuff behind curtains means he potentially saves the world as much as Sonic, but quiter without fanfare. It fits him.

If you dissagree, I'm not going to defend my position (I'm sure I made few Chaotix fans squint their eyes). Like I said, this is just a theory that was stuck in my head for a while.

Not really a theory its more common sense. 

Its why they wanted to spin him off into his own thing in the games. Don't agree with the gun part though, I think you can have shadow be big by himself with out gun and I feel like gun kind of this hold over thing you can get rid of. He can be fighting shit folks aren't privy too, to be forreal if you wanted to push the eclipse direction he could just fight aliens way more powerful than everyone else and that can just be his power bracket. And then occasionally a character shows up and see's him doing crazy powerful shit and goes " Nah nope, have fun with that " . 

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1 hour ago, Josh said:

I'd like more stories about Rouge with Shadow as a tag along. 

To actually answer the question,  put Shadow in situations that actually show what kind of hero he is instead of always going back to the "his past" well for ideas. The comics were actually decent about this.

Yes to that first one. I feel like most of the time she's onscreen she's tag along for Shadow.

Also yes to the second one. What kinds of situation do you have in mind?

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18 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

I hope so. Although I suppose they could also just have different stories/arcs with different stars on occasion.

The whole reason Universe was created was because Sega mandated that Sonic has to be in every issue of the main series iirc.

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I disagree with this part because I would rather rouge just interact with others. She's been hanging out with shadow for a hot minute, maybe she can hang out with ANYONE ELSE

To be fair, she spent more time paired with Amy in Shattered while Shadow paired with Knuckles.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

If Shadow appeared in every issue, people would get tired of seeing him, regardless of his popularity.

 

7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Kind of like what happened with the Wisps and recently with Classic Sonic in Forces.

I Think that happened for other reasons, classic sonic being here has other fanbase issues that shadow does not have. I mean there are some fanbase issues with every character, even sonic. Just its different fanbase issues, and ones very specific to classic sonic

7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

 

He's doing about as good a job as Knuckles does protecting the Master Emerald.

No, not really? We don't know what shadow does, but every time he shows up, even in the game where he wanted to destroy the earth, his debut... he helps save the planet. His track record is much better than knuckles, not to mention gun shit he does that we don't know about. Knuckle's issue is that he's guarding something that's either key to the plot, or needs to be broken or stolen so he can be apart of it. Shadow protecting earth, is... a given he's gonna win. Because the other characters live on that. Knuckle's mistake in his creation was chaining him to plot devices. It seems like sega is actively trying make shadow not have that , to the degree in which he doesn't even need chaos emeralds anymore. 

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

To be fair, she spent more time paired with Amy in Shattered while Shadow paired with Knuckles.

 

 

I liked that part

Make that part a whole story. 

I don't want to see rouge and shadow wthin 50ft of one another, restraining orders

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6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I liked that part

Make that part a whole story. 

I don't want to see rouge and shadow wthin 50ft of one another, restraining orders

 I actually really like Rouge and Shadow's dynamic a lot. It humanizes him a bit and they play off each other well. It's not like I want that to disappear.

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I'm all for odd pairings but Shadow and Rouge are just close friends. They like being around eachother so it'd make sense for them to be around eachother pretty often.

It just felt kind of one sided to me. It feels like Shadow should be helping Rouge with her problems as much as she helps shadow

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

I'm all for odd pairings but Shadow and Rouge are just close friends. They like being around eachother so it'd make sense for them to be around eachother pretty often.

It just felt kind of one sided to me. It feels like Shadow should be helping Rouge with her problems as much as she helps shadow

Probably, they seem to have not bothered to give Rouge problems.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

They might make an equivalent to Sonic Universe, it's a pretty good idea and it's the best way to give other supporting characters the spotlight rather than just making them secondary character in Sonic's stories.

I'm not fond of that. That isn't to say sonic universe is bad, infact it was WAY better than the main comic since book one. However it fell into the issue of them wanting to tell longer stories and the format not accommodating for it. Thus causing this issue where there were plot threads and just plots in general that were more interesting than the main book that should have continued, but couldn't. 

I propose you do it the ol' fashioned comic book way. You wanna tell a specific character story? Start a miniseries, or incorporate their deal in the main book if they aren't popular enough. And if they prove to be super popular enough to make some money, if its the character focused on in the main book, give that character a miniseries. But if its the miniseries and that book proves to be popular, give em a book for a while. Not for ever, because I don' think Archie wants to run like..5 sonic books at once... or maybe they do if they sell? But I think the sonic universe solution will just grow to have the same issues

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 I actually really like Rouge and Shadow's dynamic a lot. It humanizes him a bit and they play off each other well. It's not like I want that to disappear.

They can still hang out and occasionally be friends... but I think them creating interesting dynamics with everyone else is much more valuable. Like Shadow did more for knuckles character in an altercation and subsequent buddy cop spelunking adventure ( 8 books) than knuckles has had in like... a decade and some change. I think that's much more valuable. Shadow and Rouge will always be friends, but they aren't tails and sonic they don't need to be around each other and can function by themselves. And I think what they can potentially do for other characters is much more valuable than what they can do for each other at this point. We know the dynamic its whatever, there are bunch of other dynamics we don't with those two and that's potentially much more interesting. 

Also other characters can and have humanized shadow, I think it would be much more interesting characterization if other characters got to

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

Probably, they seem to have not bothered to give Rouge problems.

So that's kind of another issue. Its with rouge's character? Is that a lot of her potential problems would... kind of seem small next to shadow? Like a lot of the scenario's I come up with either aren't her problems, but are team dark missions, are so small as to make her problems seem trivial , or will inadvertently become shadow problems and shadow gets focus. 

I can't see rouge having emotional issues? I can't see shadow being interested in helping her steal anything because he's way more on the good guy moral spectrum than a lot of the sonic cast in general despite him being so grumpy. They already go on team dark missions where they help each other out. Any type of hydra esque gun shininagans would inadvertently also be a shadow problem which eliminates the point.

I say this is as a fan of shadow, but this is a criticism of his character, he sucks the life out of the two people that want to be around him and makes everything about him. He chews up scenery. Its almost where he has a super power where if he gets close to a plot, his body does unknown chaos control to warp reality to make shit about him. 

Keep them away from each other if you want rouge to do anything cool

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm not fond of that. That isn't to say sonic universe is bad, infact it was WAY better than the main comic since book one. However it fell into the issue of them wanting to tell longer stories and the format not accommodating for it. Thus causing this issue where there were plot threads and just plots in general that were more interesting than the main book that should have continued, but couldn't. 

I propose you do it the ol' fashioned comic book way. You wanna tell a specific character story? Start a miniseries, or incorporate their deal in the main book if they aren't popular enough. And if they prove to be super popular enough to make some money, if its the character focused on in the main book, give that character a miniseries. But if its the miniseries and that book proves to be popular, give em a book for a while. Not for ever, because I don' think Archie wants to run like..5 sonic books at once... or maybe they do if they sell? But I think the sonic universe solution will just grow to have the same issues

They can still hang out and occasionally be friends... but I think them creating interesting dynamics with everyone else is much more valuable. Like Shadow did more for knuckles character in an altercation and subsequent buddy cop spelunking adventure ( 8 books) than knuckles has had in like... a decade and some change. I think that's much more valuable. Shadow and Rouge will always be friends, but they aren't tails and sonic they don't need to be around each other and can function by themselves. And I think what they can potentially do for other characters is much more valuable than what they can do for each other at this point. We know the dynamic its whatever, there are bunch of other dynamics we don't with those two and that's potentially much more interesting. 

Also other characters can and have humanized shadow, I think it would be much more interesting characterization if other characters got to

Yea, universe did have that problem a lot. I feel they should use as many issues as they can to tell a story, but then you run into the problem of it dragging on.

 

As for the second point; I agree, but like Josh said, we never had an arc where Shadow plays a secondary role to Rouge, and even if they can be used independently and should, they're just as strong together as well. 

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Maybe I was a bit to brash. I don't think it should eliminate them hanging out, but I think the focus should be on them as individuals doing other stuff, so when team dark gets back together , its less. " Shadow the hedgehog and his cheer leaders" and " We say the focus is on rouge but really its not "  more " THE BOYS ARE BACK " . I feel like you do that by building their individual characters, and I feel like you building that means they can't hang out all the time. And that's ok, they have been hanging out for years and it is time for change. 

And I think in reality , the potential with other characters might be greater than what they had with each other. Why not explore that?

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It just felt like you didn't want them hanging out at all lol. I can agree to that at least.

I still like the idea of Shadow assisting Rouge on a heist though 

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15 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I can't see rouge having emotional issues? I can't see shadow being interested in helping her steal anything because he's way more on the good guy moral spectrum than a lot of the sonic cast in general despite him being so grumpy. They already go on team dark missions where they help each other out. Any type of hydra esque gun shininagans would inadvertently also be a shadow problem which eliminates the point.

I say this is as a fan of shadow, but this is a criticism of his character, he sucks the life out of the two people that want to be around him and makes everything about him. He chews up scenery. Its almost where he has a super power where if he gets close to a plot, his body does unknown chaos control to warp reality to make shit about him. 

Keep them away from each other if you want rouge to do anything cool

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

Maybe Rouge had a rough past herself? I mean she's only 18, yet she's already working for a government facility. 

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

Then why not do it by herself?

The other issue with rouge and shadow is that shadow in terms of team dark doesn't have the dynamic the other teams have. Usually a team has utility with each member that compliments each other. Shadow has done stealth missions and has stolen shit before, If you are calling shadow either you want him to do that, but if you can do that... why call him? Shadow can literally end any stealth plot by either threatening the person into not talking, or just....teleporting in doing the thing and then leaving.And She can't call omega because him and stealth are oil and water. 

And they stole something from rouge, she's type of person who is so prideful in her craft she would probably want to do that herself. And her doing that herself and not calling shadow... would end up being a much more interesting story. 

Shadow doesn't have to be around all the time, rouge can be cool  by herself

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Just now, Josh said:

It's risky or dangerous to do it alone and she wants backup.

Ok

What back can shadow provide that wouldn't end the plot instantaneously?

" Hey i'm going to teleport inside, take thing and leave. And destroy any person who threatens you because i'm so powerful the last time we had a comic, the person writing had to create an enemy I had to fight because I would just body everyone" 

 

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Ok

What back can shadow provide that wouldn't end the plot instantaneously?

" Hey i'm going to teleport inside, take thing and leave. And destroy any person who threatens you because i'm so powerful the last time we had a comic, the person writing had to create an enemy I had to fight because I would just body everyone" 

 

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

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I wonder if Tangle will be a main character, considering all the reveal business, and will tag along with Sonic just like the FF's did.

That would be a really ironic outcome.

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7 minutes ago, Josh said:

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

I don't hate using my imagination, I do it for living. Its that, due to their difference in powers and shadow's very specific powers he makes a lot of issues trival. There's a reason why he was quartered off in the comic before. Because he either has to job, or he would end the plot. He's a guy that can warp through space and time and move at damn near light speeds, has super strength and a multitude of other powers. And rouge is a spy. Anything rouge wanted to do, he could just do. That's why shadow's the focus in a lot of these stories so he can threats or things that he can't get past. Whether its not wanting to upset amy by being a bad guy, or his alien 2nd cousin. These things are created to specifically give shadow hurdles because he needs those the most. Because unchecked, he would just body everything. 

I'm not gonna go into full on ramble mode, but teleportation is an immensely broken that everyone seems to take for granted because they see all their anime characters do it, basically shadow's version. The ability to just tear through space to be somewhere else instantaneously? What couldn't he steal? All rouge would need to do a schematic of whever they are stealing from, and then bam, he's got it. He has  powerset that actively devalues the other team members. 

The reason That I think about the mechanics of this shit is because I have imagination. So in terms of story telling it would amount to shadow standing there, where could have just ended the problem immediately. And despite tumblr's antics I don't think shadow and rouge  have the type of relationship where they are just hanging out. When you see them, they are doing something. 

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7 minutes ago, Josh said:

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

There aren't many heists in fiction that go off without a hitch. You could lead the reader in with the impression that it's as simple as "teleport in, teleport out." but the person they're stealing from expected it and had countermeasures in place. 

Like...use your heads guys, lol. If Shadow really was as powerful as you guys were saying, he wouldn't get into any serious fights at all, whether he was on his own or not.

 

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