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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

If Shadow appeared in every issue, people would get tired of seeing him, regardless of his popularity.

 

7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Kind of like what happened with the Wisps and recently with Classic Sonic in Forces.

I Think that happened for other reasons, classic sonic being here has other fanbase issues that shadow does not have. I mean there are some fanbase issues with every character, even sonic. Just its different fanbase issues, and ones very specific to classic sonic

7 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

 

He's doing about as good a job as Knuckles does protecting the Master Emerald.

No, not really? We don't know what shadow does, but every time he shows up, even in the game where he wanted to destroy the earth, his debut... he helps save the planet. His track record is much better than knuckles, not to mention gun shit he does that we don't know about. Knuckle's issue is that he's guarding something that's either key to the plot, or needs to be broken or stolen so he can be apart of it. Shadow protecting earth, is... a given he's gonna win. Because the other characters live on that. Knuckle's mistake in his creation was chaining him to plot devices. It seems like sega is actively trying make shadow not have that , to the degree in which he doesn't even need chaos emeralds anymore. 

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

To be fair, she spent more time paired with Amy in Shattered while Shadow paired with Knuckles.

 

 

I liked that part

Make that part a whole story. 

I don't want to see rouge and shadow wthin 50ft of one another, restraining orders

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6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I liked that part

Make that part a whole story. 

I don't want to see rouge and shadow wthin 50ft of one another, restraining orders

 I actually really like Rouge and Shadow's dynamic a lot. It humanizes him a bit and they play off each other well. It's not like I want that to disappear.

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I'm all for odd pairings but Shadow and Rouge are just close friends. They like being around eachother so it'd make sense for them to be around eachother pretty often.

It just felt kind of one sided to me. It feels like Shadow should be helping Rouge with her problems as much as she helps shadow

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

I'm all for odd pairings but Shadow and Rouge are just close friends. They like being around eachother so it'd make sense for them to be around eachother pretty often.

It just felt kind of one sided to me. It feels like Shadow should be helping Rouge with her problems as much as she helps shadow

Probably, they seem to have not bothered to give Rouge problems.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

They might make an equivalent to Sonic Universe, it's a pretty good idea and it's the best way to give other supporting characters the spotlight rather than just making them secondary character in Sonic's stories.

I'm not fond of that. That isn't to say sonic universe is bad, infact it was WAY better than the main comic since book one. However it fell into the issue of them wanting to tell longer stories and the format not accommodating for it. Thus causing this issue where there were plot threads and just plots in general that were more interesting than the main book that should have continued, but couldn't. 

I propose you do it the ol' fashioned comic book way. You wanna tell a specific character story? Start a miniseries, or incorporate their deal in the main book if they aren't popular enough. And if they prove to be super popular enough to make some money, if its the character focused on in the main book, give that character a miniseries. But if its the miniseries and that book proves to be popular, give em a book for a while. Not for ever, because I don' think Archie wants to run like..5 sonic books at once... or maybe they do if they sell? But I think the sonic universe solution will just grow to have the same issues

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 I actually really like Rouge and Shadow's dynamic a lot. It humanizes him a bit and they play off each other well. It's not like I want that to disappear.

They can still hang out and occasionally be friends... but I think them creating interesting dynamics with everyone else is much more valuable. Like Shadow did more for knuckles character in an altercation and subsequent buddy cop spelunking adventure ( 8 books) than knuckles has had in like... a decade and some change. I think that's much more valuable. Shadow and Rouge will always be friends, but they aren't tails and sonic they don't need to be around each other and can function by themselves. And I think what they can potentially do for other characters is much more valuable than what they can do for each other at this point. We know the dynamic its whatever, there are bunch of other dynamics we don't with those two and that's potentially much more interesting. 

Also other characters can and have humanized shadow, I think it would be much more interesting characterization if other characters got to

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

Probably, they seem to have not bothered to give Rouge problems.

So that's kind of another issue. Its with rouge's character? Is that a lot of her potential problems would... kind of seem small next to shadow? Like a lot of the scenario's I come up with either aren't her problems, but are team dark missions, are so small as to make her problems seem trivial , or will inadvertently become shadow problems and shadow gets focus. 

I can't see rouge having emotional issues? I can't see shadow being interested in helping her steal anything because he's way more on the good guy moral spectrum than a lot of the sonic cast in general despite him being so grumpy. They already go on team dark missions where they help each other out. Any type of hydra esque gun shininagans would inadvertently also be a shadow problem which eliminates the point.

I say this is as a fan of shadow, but this is a criticism of his character, he sucks the life out of the two people that want to be around him and makes everything about him. He chews up scenery. Its almost where he has a super power where if he gets close to a plot, his body does unknown chaos control to warp reality to make shit about him. 

Keep them away from each other if you want rouge to do anything cool

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm not fond of that. That isn't to say sonic universe is bad, infact it was WAY better than the main comic since book one. However it fell into the issue of them wanting to tell longer stories and the format not accommodating for it. Thus causing this issue where there were plot threads and just plots in general that were more interesting than the main book that should have continued, but couldn't. 

I propose you do it the ol' fashioned comic book way. You wanna tell a specific character story? Start a miniseries, or incorporate their deal in the main book if they aren't popular enough. And if they prove to be super popular enough to make some money, if its the character focused on in the main book, give that character a miniseries. But if its the miniseries and that book proves to be popular, give em a book for a while. Not for ever, because I don' think Archie wants to run like..5 sonic books at once... or maybe they do if they sell? But I think the sonic universe solution will just grow to have the same issues

They can still hang out and occasionally be friends... but I think them creating interesting dynamics with everyone else is much more valuable. Like Shadow did more for knuckles character in an altercation and subsequent buddy cop spelunking adventure ( 8 books) than knuckles has had in like... a decade and some change. I think that's much more valuable. Shadow and Rouge will always be friends, but they aren't tails and sonic they don't need to be around each other and can function by themselves. And I think what they can potentially do for other characters is much more valuable than what they can do for each other at this point. We know the dynamic its whatever, there are bunch of other dynamics we don't with those two and that's potentially much more interesting. 

Also other characters can and have humanized shadow, I think it would be much more interesting characterization if other characters got to

Yea, universe did have that problem a lot. I feel they should use as many issues as they can to tell a story, but then you run into the problem of it dragging on.

 

As for the second point; I agree, but like Josh said, we never had an arc where Shadow plays a secondary role to Rouge, and even if they can be used independently and should, they're just as strong together as well. 

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Maybe I was a bit to brash. I don't think it should eliminate them hanging out, but I think the focus should be on them as individuals doing other stuff, so when team dark gets back together , its less. " Shadow the hedgehog and his cheer leaders" and " We say the focus is on rouge but really its not "  more " THE BOYS ARE BACK " . I feel like you do that by building their individual characters, and I feel like you building that means they can't hang out all the time. And that's ok, they have been hanging out for years and it is time for change. 

And I think in reality , the potential with other characters might be greater than what they had with each other. Why not explore that?

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15 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I can't see rouge having emotional issues? I can't see shadow being interested in helping her steal anything because he's way more on the good guy moral spectrum than a lot of the sonic cast in general despite him being so grumpy. They already go on team dark missions where they help each other out. Any type of hydra esque gun shininagans would inadvertently also be a shadow problem which eliminates the point.

I say this is as a fan of shadow, but this is a criticism of his character, he sucks the life out of the two people that want to be around him and makes everything about him. He chews up scenery. Its almost where he has a super power where if he gets close to a plot, his body does unknown chaos control to warp reality to make shit about him. 

Keep them away from each other if you want rouge to do anything cool

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

Maybe Rouge had a rough past herself? I mean she's only 18, yet she's already working for a government facility. 

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1 minute ago, Josh said:

Well, you just has to be creative when it comes to the premise. Would it be so hard to make the person Rouge is stealing from someone that deserves to be stolen from? Maybe they stole something from Rouge and now she gets to put her thief knowledge to good use and steal it back.

Then why not do it by herself?

The other issue with rouge and shadow is that shadow in terms of team dark doesn't have the dynamic the other teams have. Usually a team has utility with each member that compliments each other. Shadow has done stealth missions and has stolen shit before, If you are calling shadow either you want him to do that, but if you can do that... why call him? Shadow can literally end any stealth plot by either threatening the person into not talking, or just....teleporting in doing the thing and then leaving.And She can't call omega because him and stealth are oil and water. 

And they stole something from rouge, she's type of person who is so prideful in her craft she would probably want to do that herself. And her doing that herself and not calling shadow... would end up being a much more interesting story. 

Shadow doesn't have to be around all the time, rouge can be cool  by herself

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Just now, Josh said:

It's risky or dangerous to do it alone and she wants backup.

Ok

What back can shadow provide that wouldn't end the plot instantaneously?

" Hey i'm going to teleport inside, take thing and leave. And destroy any person who threatens you because i'm so powerful the last time we had a comic, the person writing had to create an enemy I had to fight because I would just body everyone" 

 

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Ok

What back can shadow provide that wouldn't end the plot instantaneously?

" Hey i'm going to teleport inside, take thing and leave. And destroy any person who threatens you because i'm so powerful the last time we had a comic, the person writing had to create an enemy I had to fight because I would just body everyone" 

 

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

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I wonder if Tangle will be a main character, considering all the reveal business, and will tag along with Sonic just like the FF's did.

That would be a really ironic outcome.

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7 minutes ago, Josh said:

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

I don't hate using my imagination, I do it for living. Its that, due to their difference in powers and shadow's very specific powers he makes a lot of issues trival. There's a reason why he was quartered off in the comic before. Because he either has to job, or he would end the plot. He's a guy that can warp through space and time and move at damn near light speeds, has super strength and a multitude of other powers. And rouge is a spy. Anything rouge wanted to do, he could just do. That's why shadow's the focus in a lot of these stories so he can threats or things that he can't get past. Whether its not wanting to upset amy by being a bad guy, or his alien 2nd cousin. These things are created to specifically give shadow hurdles because he needs those the most. Because unchecked, he would just body everything. 

I'm not gonna go into full on ramble mode, but teleportation is an immensely broken that everyone seems to take for granted because they see all their anime characters do it, basically shadow's version. The ability to just tear through space to be somewhere else instantaneously? What couldn't he steal? All rouge would need to do a schematic of whever they are stealing from, and then bam, he's got it. He has  powerset that actively devalues the other team members. 

The reason That I think about the mechanics of this shit is because I have imagination. So in terms of story telling it would amount to shadow standing there, where could have just ended the problem immediately. And despite tumblr's antics I don't think shadow and rouge  have the type of relationship where they are just hanging out. When you see them, they are doing something. 

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7 minutes ago, Josh said:

It really just sounds like you hate using your imagination to me, so I'm just gonna cut this off here.

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

There aren't many heists in fiction that go off without a hitch. You could lead the reader in with the impression that it's as simple as "teleport in, teleport out." but the person they're stealing from expected it and had countermeasures in place. 

Like...use your heads guys, lol. If Shadow really was as powerful as you guys were saying, he wouldn't get into any serious fights at all, whether he was on his own or not.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

Maybe they can introduce a sort of Kryptonite to cancel out Chaos energy.

1 minute ago, Josh said:

There aren't many heists in fiction that go off without a hitch. You could lead the reader in with the impression that it's as simple as "teleport in, teleport out." but the person they're stealing from expected it and had countermeasures in place. 
 

What would you have in mind?

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3 minutes ago, Josh said:

There aren't many heists in fiction that go off without a hitch. You could lead the reader in with the impression that it's as simple as "teleport in, teleport out." but the person they're stealing from expected it and had countermeasures in place. 

Like...use your heads guys, lol. If Shadow really was as powerful as you guys were saying, he wouldn't get into any serious fights at all, whether he was on his own or not.

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you'd have to work around Shadows abilities a bit. He's still as fast as Sonic, so you'd have to make opponents that would give Sonic trouble to justify it.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Eh, I can kind of get what he means. Stealth isn't much of an issue when the guy can just teleport in and take whatever they want and be out.

Rouge and Shadow go to the heist location and Rouge starts telling him her plan in detail, where the item is, what the traps are, etc. 

Shadow immediatelly stops listening after he hears the location, teleports in, gets the item, and teleports out.

Rouge sees this and scolds him for being a partypooper by just ignoring the fun and challenge that makes a heist entertaining for her in the first place, and Shadow reluctantly puts the item back where it was and begrudgingly tags along with Rouge as she does the heist her way.

I think that would be an entertaining scenario where the "Why doesn't he teleport" thing gets adressed and opens up a fun dynamic with Rouge, who wants to show Shadow the things she enjoys, while he's a grumpy "This could've been way easier"  guy with lots of potential for fun banter.

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3 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

What kind of stories Shadow should have? It should be something related to his past, and Eclipse was perfect for it. But now Eclipse will not reappear.

So what will they do for Shadow?

Again? We already know Shadow's past. They told this I think 3 times already. Unless they will recon his story and tell a brand new one. Maybe cancel the Maria drama and tell more about his alien roots. I'm not sure if he is still half alien in the main canon, but if he is than he can visit his home planet or something like that. Maybe also meet Marvin, ALF and Bender and hang out with them, I don't know. 

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