Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Diogenes]

We're almost certainly never going to see any of those locations ever again.

[PublicEnemy1]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

We're almost certainly never going to see any of those locations ever again.

And why do you say that?

[Sonictrainer]

16 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Considering that Mazuri, Spagonia, Empire City, Shamar, and Apotos didn’t have local heroes introduced in Archie, will they have their teams introduced here (if the comic goes with Two Worlds, maybe they could be human!) as Sonic fights off Eggman’s remnants?

Not sure. I'm actually curious how the World Map is going look for this universe.

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

We're almost certainly never going to see any of those locations ever again.

In the franchise that just recently revisited the Green Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone twice, what makes you say that?

Heck, it's even on the first issue cover while Forces City is on the second (kind of) & fourth covers.

[Diogenes]

22 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

In the franchise that just recently revisited the Green Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone twice, what makes you say that?

Because all this series cares about is what it's currently doing and what it can abuse for nostalgia points. That's obviously more on Sega/Sonic Team than the comic's writers, but I doubt they'll have free rein to pick and choose whatever elements from the series they want.

[PublicEnemy1]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because all this series cares about is what it's currently doing and what it can abuse for nostalgia points. That's obviously more on Sega/Sonic Team than the comic's writers, but I doubt they'll have free rein to pick and choose whatever elements from the series they want.

Well, they are almost certainly likely be able to pick out the same elements as the post-reboot, and most likely more.

[MetalSkulkBane]

8 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

You mean post reboot? Aside from Shadow Fall, most of them were about Knuckles, he's the real star of Universe. Aside from that, he was pretty much absent in the main book, he has been for a long time, before the reboot he didn't appear since around issue 195, until Worlds Collide, I think, then in the reboot he only made cameos, Knuckles was also underused in the main book before the reboot happened. Universe started with a Shadow arc, but still, he appeared in M30L as a villain, then I don't think he showed up again in a big role until Treasure Team Tango. Point is: there wasn't much Shadow in the comic. In IDW I think he will make a cameo in the first issue since he is in the resistance, then he might get focus in a later arc.

Hmm, let's count it, shall we? Let's say that having your own own 4-part arc gives you 1 SU point, a single issue 0,25 SU.

So Shadow had one own arc, one co-arc (smaller role than Knuckles, but still) and one sidekick role. Let's call it 1,75 SU points.

In comparison Blaze has 1 (arguably less, so many characters in this arc),

Silver has...1,25 plus Free Comic Book Day and Unite Battles. Umm, 1,5 SU? That's still generous IMHO.

I'm not going to bother with Rouge and Omega for obvious reasons. Cream is in main book cast but does NOTHING, (Big does a lot though, let's call it 1 SU point), and Chaotix have 1,5 (plus Espio in Championship).

(also Metal Sonic as Captain Metal, attacking Sally, Championship, SU 75, a small role in Unite and fight with Gemerl... It's tricky, but I say 1,25 SU

So aside from the core heroes, Shadow has most appearances, if barely. Flynn pretty much treats him as "first among many".  I could do the same count for Preboot, but aside for Silver being much more prominent, numbers will be very similar. I'll just have a harder time counting Chaotix, for obvious reasons.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for Shadow to have more screen time, I'm just painfully aware of his chances. We'll probably get "Sonic Universe" back eventually, but if we somehow get a 3rd book, it probably will be Classic Sonic. That way they can keep "Sonic" in the title.

[Red Hot Jack]

9 hours ago, Diogenes said:

We're almost certainly never going to see any of those locations ever again.

In the games. But in the comics? You are likely wrong, the comics focus on some heavy continuity.

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Hmm, let's count it, shall we? Let's say that having your own own 4-part arc gives you 1 SU point, a single issue 0,25 SU.

So Shadow had one own arc, one co-arc (smaller role than Knuckles, but still) and one sidekick role. Let's call it 1,75 SU points.

In comparison Blaze has 1 (arguably less, so many characters in this arc),

Silver has...1,25 plus Free Comic Book Day and Unite Battles. Umm, 1,5 SU? That's still generous IMHO.

I'm not going to bother with Rouge and Omega for obvious reasons. Cream is in main book cast but does NOTHING, (Big does a lot though, let's call it 1 SU point), and Chaotix have 1,5 (plus Espio in Championship).

(also Metal Sonic as Captain Metal, attacking Sally, Championship, SU 75, a small role in Unite and fight with Gemerl... It's tricky, but I say 1,25 SU

So aside from the core heroes, Shadow has most appearances, if barely. Flynn pretty much treats him as "first among many".  I could do the same count for Preboot, but aside for Silver being much more prominent, numbers will be very similar. I'll just have a harder time counting Chaotix, for obvious reasons.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for Shadow to have more screen time, I'm just painfully aware of his chances. We'll probably get "Sonic Universe" back eventually, but if we somehow get a 3rd book, it probably will be Classic Sonic. That way they can keep "Sonic" in the title.

You only counted during the reboot... they have had more arcs in the past. And you didn't count Knuckles. Shadow is supposed to be the first most important after the main cast which is Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Dr. Eggman, and he's the most popular after Sonic, so I can see why he gets screentime.

[MetalSkulkBane]

20 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

You only counted during the reboot... they have had more arcs in the past. And you didn't count Knuckles. Shadow is supposed to be the first most important after the main cast which is Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Dr. Eggman, and he's the most popular after Sonic, so I can see why he gets screentime.

Well, yes. I quote myself " I could do the same count for Preboot, but aside for Silver being much more prominent, numbers will be very similar." I didn't count Knuckles because his position is way higher and I kinda see why. Marketing tells that he's part of the main cast, yet lore says he's not part of FF. So of course, he keeps appearing everywhere.

Looking at Preboot, he was the main guy almost from day one. With all those echidnas running around, he had to appear regularly.
With Reboot I can only guess, but when we left Knux, he just finished fixing ME. Perhaps after this, he was going to take a small step back, let other guys shine. We'll never know.

So yes, looking at 'how often Flynn uses him" scale, Shadow is closer to Silver than to Knuckles.

Here's a quick look at Preboot

Spoiler

Knuckles: Hmm, part of FF, Enerjack, fighting DEL, his own arc, Endangered Species. Let's call it "a lot" and leave with that.

Things will be muuuuuuuuch messier, so now I'll give 2 point for being a focus of the issue issue (even loosely), 1 for having a role, 0 for being but doing nothing. And I'll keep SU own arcs separate for comfort.

Shadow: fight with Scourge (2), Adam (1), his past (2), King Shadow (1, since it's not really him), Vs Enerjack (1), Hedgehog Havoc (1), King Shadow back(1), Treasure Team Tango (ummm, it was long, but with 12 characters... 2 points) = 11+ his very own arc in SU. A lot considering that post #200 he barely appears (only TTT)

Rouge: Being with Scourge (eh, 1 is too generous), leaving Scourge (2), selling ME (1, surprisingly she does very little), cameo with Enerjack, Team Tango (2), Shadow Saga (hmm, 2x doing barely anything... 1) = 7 (8 if you think Enerjack is worth counting)

Omega: debiut (2), Tango (2), Vs mecha sally (1) = 5

Blaze: terrible first story (1, it's back up), meting Shadow (2), Tango (2) = 5

Silver: debiut (1), XYL(umm, 1), Rotor (2), his own arc, blaming Antoine (1), Secret FF (2, many characters, but he has vital role), last issue(2) = 9 + his own SU

Chaotix: ugh, they had their own arc (even if it was about Mighty), small roles in Knuckles SU, Espio had medium-size role in Iron Dominium (plus comforting Nicole afterwards), and maaaany single scenes sprinkled everywhere. I give them "Chaotix" number of points.

Cream: debiut (1, it was back up), Team Tango (2), joining Team Freedom (1), few tiny roles including dealing with Tails Doll (1) = 5

Big: return with Felidae/Wolf Pack (2), joining Team Freedom (1) = 3

I repeat, it's loooose, but shows that Shadow didn't had that bad.

Now if anyone suggest I do the same for Freedom Fighters, I'll pull out a gun.

[Shadowlax]

Eh no, Shadow is with the rest of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Eggman. He's popular. 

Ian flynn chose to focus on....whatever the fuck story he was tyring to tell and bumbled it all and a lot of characters including sonic himself in many ways got the short end of the stick. I think things will be a lot more...restrictive in some ways in the future.

[MetalSkulkBane]

50 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh no, Shadow is with the rest of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Eggman. He's popular. 

Ian flynn chose to focus on....whatever the fuck story he was tyring to tell and bumbled it all and a lot of characters including sonic himself in many ways got the short end of the stick. I think things will be a lot more...restrictive in some ways in the future.

Popular, but lacks ~10 years of being 'classic'.

I think Sonic Boom represents his role best: he's not with Core Cast, but he's beyond other characters (kiiinda like Metal)

Other proves that's he's not "Core Cast": Advance series, Lost World, Rush 1, Riders 1&2 (not part of the story), Secret Rings, Pinball Party, sorta Chronicles. Even Sonic X proves otherwise.

[A person, that exists]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh no, Shadow is with the rest of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Eggman. He's popular. 

Shadow IS popular, but just because he is doesn't mean that he needs to be in every story told. Heck, even from an in-world perspective it doesn't really work: Shadow's a GUN agent, one of their top tiers actually, so why would he get involved in Sonic's quest for stopping Eggman, when he clearly has more important things to do?

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Ian flynn chose to focus on....whatever the fuck story he was tyring to tell and bumbled it all and a lot of characters including sonic himself in many ways got the short end of the stick. 

Well, at least Flynn expanded the smaller side-characters, instead of focusing on the "Popular" characters, like, say, Penders did with his attempts to turn Archie Sonic into "Knuckles' melodramatic fanfiction, feat. Sonic and friends" 

[RedFox99]

10 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Shadow IS popular, but just because he is doesn't mean that he needs to be in every story told.

Thank You. 

10 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, at least Flynn expanded the smaller side-characters, instead of focusing on the "Popular" characters, like, say, Penders did with his attempts to turn Archie Sonic into "Knuckles' melodramatic fanfiction, feat. Sonic and friends" 

I'm hoping he can expand on Cream and maybe even Vanilla.

[RedFox99]

So, do you guys think the first issue with address Tails' behavior during Forces (him being scared of Chaos 0, deserting his friends, clinging onto Classic Sonic)? I ask this because Ian could have began writing some time after Forces realised and he might've looked at the reception towards the story and writing.

[MetalSkulkBane]

30 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

So, do you guys think the first issue with address Tails' behavior during Forces (him being scared of Chaos 0, deserting his friends, clinging onto Classic Sonic)? I ask this because Ian could have began writing some time after Forces realised and he might've looked at the reception towards the story and writing.

I know what games will do: forget and move on.

I understand fans reaction to this scene, but I'm surprised by their interpretation. To me no one planned to make Tails coward. No one said "Okay everyone. From now one Tails is scardy-pants". No, they simply wanted to give Classic a big entrance. They sacrificed character for sake of a scene.

It's not justification, arguably it's even worse. I'm just surprised how many people think that from now on Tails will be coward. He won't, they don't give that much though. Last game he was huge jerk, remember?

With that said, Flynn might do it, he likes putting fixes like this. I remember him excusing why Knuckles stay home during Lost World (to 'keep place safe;, while Sonic is gone. Excuse, but works).

[Dash Speed]

18 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

To be honest, his story isn't any deeper than Knuckles', Blaze's, the Babylon Rouges', Silver's, the Storybook characters, or Eggman Nega.

In some cases, it's too complicated.

That's debatable, since:

Shadow presence in stories is more serious and deeply explored. He is one of the few characters that actually bring pure evil villains that (even Eggman has to help defeat are invented) for Shadow to handle due to being created and indluenced from Shadow, plus two which actually defeated Sonic and one of them killing him.

Shadows character skips out on humoristic tone with pure dramatic tension for a sonic title and more characters on shadows side like the gun commander, rouge and omega get more than their fair share of multi layered focus on establishing themselves out side of being quirky.

That's more than I can say of Knuckles, Silver, and Blaze. Who' personal stories and villains get defeated by Sonic quite easily at the first try.

 

18 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

None of them has a legitimate reason to get a bigger slice.

Except Sonic and Tails who are indominately good guys and never get painted wrong in their actions or choices.

Maybe that' why Sonic isn't hot with the Japanese, no one can branch from the title character as being a major thematic equal. Shadow would be a great main lead in his own corner of the sonic cannon if he was written by Japanese people instead of Americans who just rip off Vegeta and mewtwo elements for him.

[Marco9966]

Tails did not only fear Chaos 0, he was also afraid of regular Egg pawns at the beginning, and hid behind while Sonic was sucked into null space until avatar tries to save him!!

[Dash Speed]

3 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Shadow IS popular, but just because he is doesn't mean that he needs to be in every story told. Heck, even from an in-world perspective it doesn't really work: Shadow's a GUN agent, one of their top tiers actually, so why would he get involved in Sonic's quest for stopping Eggman, when he clearly has more important things to do?

Shadow doesn' need gun to be in a sonic plot. He' sonics rival who like as he was in shth and sonic side titles clashes with sonics viewpoints and ways of dealing justice. He should be like in x or boom, hes a threat to the heroes as much as the villains due to having self motivated to achieve personal goals no matter how good or bad it ends up for Sonic or his villians

3 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, at least Flynn expanded the smaller side-characters, instead of focusing on the "Popular" characters, like, say, Penders did with his attempts to turn Archie Sonic into "Knuckles' melodramatic fanfiction, feat. Sonic and friends" 

 Ian made Knuckles and Amy bigger players than Shadow. He doesn't really care for the character alot unless he writes him being with others.

[DabigRG]

58 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I know what games will do: forget and move on.

I understand fans reaction to this scene, but I'm surprised by their interpretation. To me no one planned to make Tails coward. No one said "Okay everyone. From now one Tails is scardy-pants". No, they simply wanted to give Classic a big entrance. They sacrificed character for sake of a scene.

It's not justification, arguably it's even worse. I'm just surprised how many people think that from now on Tails will be coward. He won't, they don't give that much though. Last game he was huge jerk, remember?

 

That's just how people tend to think regarding these things: they go on and on about whatever they take issue with until the next installment comes and corrects it and/or introduces something else to complain about.

Though, to be honest, I can't help but see his portrayal in Forces as an [over]correction of how he  behaved in Lost World.

47 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

 

Maybe that' why Sonic isn't hot with the Japanese, no one can branch from the title character as being a major thematic equal. Shadow would be a great main lead in his own corner of the sonic cannon if he was written by Japanese people instead of Americans who just rip off Vegeta and mewtwo elements for him.

Uh, you do realize that Shadow was created, designed, overseen, and perhaps even directed by Japanese people, right? 

39 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Tails did not only fear Chaos 0, he was also afraid of regular Egg pawns at the beginning, and hid behind while Sonic was sucked into null space until avatar tries to save him!!

Actually, Tails was intending to help fight Eggman and Infinite but only stood back at Sonic's urging. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Actually, Tails was intending to help fight Eggman and Infinite but only stood back at Sonic's urging. 

Marco meant first cutscense, the one where Infinite debiute. Tails is being overwhelmed by few robots.

This can be justified only with huge leaps in logic. Like maybe Tails already smashed dozen Badniks, but they just keep coming. Or maybe he knows Sonic is coming and doesn't want to endanger citizens behind him by provoking shooting.

57 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

 Ian made Knuckles and Amy bigger players than Shadow. He doesn't really care for the character a lot unless he writes him being with others.

Curse than Flynn! Also curse writers of Sonic Boom. Also writers of:

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 Advance series, Lost World, Rush 1, Riders 1&2 (not part of the story), Secret Rings, Pinball Party, sorta Chronicles. Even Sonic X...

 

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Marco meant first cutscense, the one where Infinite debiute. Tails is being overwhelmed by few robots.

This can be justified only with huge leaps in logic. Like maybe Tails already smashed dozen Badniks, but they just keep coming. Or maybe he knows Sonic is coming and doesn't want to endanger citizens behind him by provoking shooting.

 

 

I was referring to the Null Space scene. As far as we're told, Tails hadn't seen Infinite yet in the first cutscene.

 

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Shadow IS popular, but just because he is doesn't mean that he needs to be in every story told. Heck, even from an in-world perspective it doesn't really work: Shadow's a GUN agent, one of their top tiers actually, so why would he get involved in Sonic's quest for stopping Eggman, when he clearly has more important things to do?

I never said that. But I am saying it merits him being around 

5 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, at least Flynn expanded the smaller side-characters, instead of focusing on the "Popular" characters, like, say, Penders did with his attempts to turn Archie Sonic into "Knuckles' melodramatic fanfiction, feat. Sonic and friends" 

Yeah that was shitty

Remember when sega forced him to use shadow and they made it about knuckles's dad

Yeeesh

1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

 

 Ian made Knuckles and Amy bigger players than Shadow. He doesn't really care for the character alot unless he writes him being with others.

I don't feel like that's the case. 

I think its just shadow is weird, he's important. He's weird. That's it

Also if he was the writer and their was an obvious air of dismissal for one of the most popular characters, like penders he wouldn't have a job

7 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

Curse than Flynn! Also curse writers of Sonic Boom. Also writers of:

 

I don't know what this part of the response is for, it also doesn't make sense because people actually do curse some of those games... because their plots are bad

[Red Hot Jack]

Maybe Ian can rewrite those scenes as flashbacks, so Tails actually fights Chaos and the Egg Pawns, but maybe there's too many of them and that's why Sonic is needed? This can also easily be fixed in the first issue when Sonic and Tails tag and fight.

As for Shadow, I agree, he is popular and he does not need to be in every story, nobody said he should, he should appear as much as the other secondary characters, maybe a bit more but still not as much as the main 5. Since there is no spin-off book here, I would really like to see more of a Sonic & Shadow team up, their banter is really fun. But yeah, any character should have a chance to shine, even Cream.

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Popular, but lacks ~10 years of being 'classic'.

I think Sonic Boom represents his role best: he's not with Core Cast, but he's beyond other characters (kiiinda like Metal)

Other proves that's he's not "Core Cast": Advance series, Lost World, Rush 1, Riders 1&2 (not part of the story), Secret Rings, Pinball Party, sorta Chronicles. Even Sonic X proves otherwise.

I disagree. 

So put it simply, shadow is weird. 

When the advanced series was happening, when sonic X was happening, he had just debuted. He wasn't around enough to be core cast, they had a bunch of other characters and ideas and also used them. And When Lost world an chronicles were happening they were using the cast less, this includes amy and kncukles. Rush isnbout him, its about another character. Pinball party might have been experience they just didn't feel like he fit. You know why? Because he's in both sonic and sega allstars racing games in terms of being in spin offs. 

I don't think anything you said doesn't mean he's not core. I think it means, he's literally the most popular character in the franchise, and maybe just MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE sega has said the thiing that I am going to say , " Maybe they just don't want to over extend his character by putting him in everything " . He isn't like the rest of the cast, he's weird he has a weird level of seriousness about him. and debuted at a weird time, but he's popular. And he's so popular that after decades of not seeing other characters playable , he's the first one playable in years. Its because a lot of people love this character, over "core" members of the cast. They could have just made playable. No he is that, he's been that. He's on their damn banner on the top of their forums, he's the first question that gets asked about when new games come out. He despite not being in games for a hot ass minute continued to get merch along with the other " core  " members of the cast

He is core, he's just not around all the time. Because they aren't doing shit that fits him all the time, but if they are doing something that does fit him, they will bring him around. This isn't unique to sonic either, mario even has this. 

 

[dbzfan7]

11 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Maybe Ian can rewrite those scenes as flashbacks, so Tails actually fights Chaos and the Egg Pawns, but maybe there's too many of them and that's why Sonic is needed? This can also easily be fixed in the first issue when Sonic and Tails tag and fight.

As for Shadow, I agree, he is popular and he does not need to be in every story, nobody said he should, he should appear as much as the other secondary characters, maybe a bit more but still not as much as the main 5. Since there is no spin-off book here, I would really like to see more of a Sonic & Shadow team up, their banter is really fun. But yeah, any character should have a chance to shine, even Cream.

Or maybe some game mandate or decision since like 2008 or so dictates that is the new status quo.

Eh he has no reason to be appear outside of every now and then maybe. He's not a character who should be around constantly. He's supposed to be the special character who shows up to get people excited, rather than just be around a lot. I mean he's not Vegeta where he becomes one of the group.

[Red Hot Jack]

7 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Or maybe some game mandate or decision since like 2008 or so dictates that is the new status quo.

Eh he has no reason to be appear outside of every now and then maybe. He's not a character who should be around constantly. He's supposed to be the special character who shows up to get people excited, rather than just be around a lot. I mean he's not Vegeta where he becomes one of the group.

That's on Boom, maybe, because he doesn't work for comedy and only shows up for big battles and finales. But in a continuity heavy storyline? Why not? Why does he have to appear less than anyone else? I said he should not get a special treatment, but neither underused, or people will call Ian biased again.