Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Your Vest Friend]

Another should be announced on February 21st though. 

[DabigRG]

57 minutes ago, Razule said:

Four.

Plot twist: The IDW Sonic comics were just a mini-series this whole time

Okay, just wanna have my understanding of the timelines be good.

Thanks!

50 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

The times Ian did write Blaze was during the Sonic Rush side story, the TTT arc, and Worlds Collide. Granted, she still was defeated and/or captured in all three.

At least in the later two, it was part of the fun. After all, why have Blaze just burn the other three team to ashes when it's supposed to be a fun, free-for-all story?

 

Pirate Plunder Panic, though, is debatable. 

[Marco9966]

https://twitter.com/yardleyart/status/963490708492517377

Tracey Yardley finished drawing the first issue!

 

[DabigRG]

2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

https://twitter.com/yardleyart/status/963490708492517377

Tracey Yardley finished drawing the first issue!

 

Oh, that's a wonderful sign at this point, if there ever was one.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 2/12/2018 at 4:08 PM, Polkadi said:

I see people saying about how badly treated Blaze was in the Archie comics, and that Ian Flynn should give her better treatment in IDW.

Then I see people saying that PPP was the worst of the lot.

I just want to make a quick note, PPP was written by Yardey! and not by Flynn. So if anyone wants to fire shots at Flynn for that, he wasn't really behind the writing of that arc. I'm sure Flynn's Blaze is fine...

And to add to this, I would like for someone to make a list of characters who weren’t defeated multiple times (even if they win at the end of the arc).

Says a lot that the main powerhouses that is Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles (and plenty of others) have gotten their asses handed to them more than once and yet people have thrown more of a fit when Blaze is shown not to be invincible when she shows up. (And remind me who it was that won at the end PPP again?)

[Korke]

On 11/02/2018 at 4:05 AM, Sean said:

You might as well argue that all video games, TV shows, books, and movies should generally avoid having likable, decent-written characters due to the inevitable reality that they will end someday. This is not a situation exclusive to the Sonic franchise, and Sonic fans are not snowflakes whose feelings should be treated with delicacy to the point where you advocate withholding quality on the basis that taking it away would inflict severe emotional trauma.

 

So for god's sake, stop with these ridiculous theatrics. You're wasting your and everyone's time, and it's filling the topic up with shit that doesn't need to exist.

Expect that this fanbase has a total of 6 media continuities that never had a chance of becoming canon, no matter how well-received or popular some did get at their respective heydays. The whole point I was trying to make was to lament the wasted opportunity of making a true canon comic that would unify things once and for all - the chance was there (new contract, new publisher, repeated use of the word "new direction")...

[Multikaris]

21 minutes ago, Korke said:

Expect that this fanbase has a total of 6 media continuities that never had a chance of becoming canon, no matter how well-received or popular some did get at their respective heydays. The whole point I was trying to make was to lament the wasted opportunity of making a true canon comic that would unify things once and for all - the chance was there (new contract, new publisher, repeated use of the word "new direction")...

Yes, it’s irritating to keep on seeing all these canons vanish and not have their elements used in the next secondary canon. Please, bring Archie elements back into this one. 

 

Or, go with what Jorgekorke suggested for the comic to be canon, or what I suggested earlier, to follow Mario’s 80s and 90s example of not having characters people would care about compared to the game-derived characters. This is because characters from one adaptation don’t carry into another, so why should you make people infatuated with any of these adaptation characters and want to see them outside of where they came from? 

 

Although i’m All in favor of seeing Archie characters again.

 

On a more positive note, what if we got to see Heavy and Bomb again? What sort of role could they play? I’ve also wondered what some characters who were never seen in a comic would be like, such as Master Core ABIS.

[Splash the Otter]

12 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Yes, it’s irritating to keep on seeing all these canons vanish and not have their elements used in the next secondary canon. Please, bring Archie elements back into this one. 

 

Or, go with what Jorgekorke suggested for the comic to be canon, or what I suggested earlier, to follow Mario’s 80s and 90s example of not having characters people would care about compared to the game-derived characters. This is because characters from one adaptation don’t carry into another, so why should you make people infatuated with any of these adaptation characters and want to see them outside of where they came from? 

 

Although i’m All in favor of seeing Archie characters again.

 

On a more positive note, what if we got to see Heavy and Bomb again? What sort of role could they play? 

What if they made new characters that are based on the Archie cast? Kind of like how the TMNT comic has Alopex because they couldn't use Ninjara?

[Multikaris]

2 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

What if they made new characters that are based on the Archie cast? Kind of like how the TMNT comic has Alopex because they couldn't use Ninjara?

Sure. That would be a great solution.

[Sean]

I don't understand what the fuck either of you are talking about at all. Tons of franchises out there have spin-offs that aren't canon. Many of them have stories and casts that their fanbases love despite them not having any explicit canonical connection with each other. Sonic is not special, and it's only in this fucking fanbase you will find people arguing for deliberately creating shitty characters in order to spare the audience's sensitive feelings.

I can't even pretend to act cordial in this "discussion" because it's like I'm reading a fucking eldritch, incomprehensible space entity that is far beyond the limits of my inferior earth-born human brain in internet message board post form.

[Multikaris]

5 minutes ago, Sean said:

I don't understand what the fuck either of you are talking about at all. Tons of franchises out there have spin-offs that aren't canon. Many of them have stories and casts that their fanbases love despite them not having any explicit canonical connection with each other. Sonic is not special, and it's only in this fucking fanbase you will find people arguing for deliberately creating shitty characters in order to spare the audience's sensitive feelings.

I can't even pretend to act cordial in this "discussion" because it's like I'm reading a fucking eldritch, incomprehensible space entity that is far beyond the limits of my inferior earth-born human brain in internet message board post form.

Alright, i’ll end this discussion and turn my attention to other things concerning this comic. 

[Marco9966]

1 hour ago, Korke said:

Expect that this fanbase has a total of 6 media continuities that never had a chance of becoming canon, no matter how well-received or popular some did get at their respective heydays. The whole point I was trying to make was to lament the wasted opportunity of making a true canon comic that would unify things once and for all - the chance was there (new contract, new publisher, repeated use of the word "new direction")...

No! I don't want it to be canon to the games. Imagine if Sega makes a new game where Classic Sonic comes and steals the spotlight from Modern Sonic (AGAIN) and forces Flynn to insert this useless nostalgia gimmick in the comics.

[Slashy]

I am going to quote a great post I found on /sthg/ where this conversation was happening last night.

Quote

And up to 06, it's been abandoned. My point is, 06 was the thing that "killed" the old canon, but my problem is that you're a pussy bitch if you can't take a fuck up. Many other people have made stupid decisions for their work, and most of them do the most sensible thing afterwards. Just ignore it. It "happened", it's part of the canon story, but it isn't referenced instead of just being written out. Retcon'd. Non-canon. Doing this is the pussy way out of your "pride" for being shit at your job. Get over it, and try again and do it right next time. Look at Dragon Ball, GT is considered "not canon" but it isn't ignored like it hasn't happened, it's just alternate scenario, like the Trunk's timeline. They even revisit/acknowledge GT in places, like Dragon Ball Multiverse. And guess what, Sonic Generations/Forces is basically the same thing.

The problem is Sonic Team doesn't know WHAT to do with all these "canon" elements. Mostly because anytime they mess with them, they CONTINUE to fuck them up. I'd bet you if they had any dignity of the brand of Sonic over their "glorious Nippon" pride, if they'd hire the Comic writers for the game series, they'd fix all the bullshit problems the "canon" of Sonic the Hedgehog has left dragging him down. No longer is "canon" a shitpost, but something that can be worked into one whole again. SEGA just needs the right people, much like they need for their games in the first place.

Well, in regards to the western comics, it is definitely an issue having to deal with "canon" for something that, if they leave without a lot of corporate meddling, can get them in trouble with "keeping up" what's been established in one place, but not in another (e.g, archie vs the games). So either that, or you control everything, to the point you have a problem of lack of originality in the comics and you're just restating what the games themselves do in the end. Really though, as problematic things can get, yes I would say SEGA is to blame, because the best way to cover all your bases is to immediately claim "this isn't canon" but pull a fast one after the fact if it can be worked into the canon after fan reception is positive enough. E.g, Sticks for the Olympic games, after Boom was immediately claimed "not canon" to the modern series when it was announced.

So in other words, if SEGA made sure everything they didn't themselves published out to the public was obviously stated "non canon" in some form like "Read through this way past cool take on the Adventures of SONIC the HEDGEHOG!" and there, new line of Sonic media, initially distant from the main line of Sonic (the games). I mean, it worked for Mario with the "NEW" Super Mario Bros and the "3D" Land/World series.

 

[Razule]

27 minutes ago, Slashy said:

. Look at Dragon Ball, GT is considered "not canon" but it isn't ignored like it hasn't happened, it's just alternate scenario, like the Trunk's timeline. They even revisit/acknowledge GT in places, like Dragon Ball Multiverse. And guess what, Sonic Generations/Forces is basically the same thing.

1. In that context, "alternate timeline" is just a fancy way of saying "non-canon". It's not referenced in the current canon stuff.

2. I don't think this person is aware of the fact Multiverse is a fan work. And.. doesn't even include GT?

3. Where do people keep getting the idea Generations and Forces are alternate timelines..?

27 minutes ago, Slashy said:

So in other words, if SEGA made sure everything they didn't themselves published out to the public was obviously stated "non canon" in some form like "Read through this way past cool take on the Adventures of SONIC the HEDGEHOG!" and there, new line of Sonic media, initially distant from the main line of Sonic (the games). 

They already do that.

27 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I mean, it worked for Mario with the "NEW" Super Mario Bros and the "3D" Land/World series.

I don't see the correlation at all.. 

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Razule said:

1. In that context, "alternate timeline" is just a fancy way of saying "non-canon". It's not referenced in the current canon stuff.

2. I don't think this person is aware of the fact Multiverse is a fan work. And.. doesn't even include GT?

3. Where do people keep getting the idea Generations and Forces are alternate timelines..?

They already do that.

I don't see the correlation at all.. 

He's saying that Mario and Toriyama in general don't mind integrating older elements and lesser known concepts into their current works, so why shouldn't Sonic, which is closer to the latter anyway?

[andrewtuell1991]

Quote

I'd bet you if they had any dignity of the brand of Sonic over their "glorious Nippon" pride, if they'd hire the Comic writers for the game series, they'd fix all the bullshit problems the "canon" of Sonic the Hedgehog has left dragging him down.

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games.  His writing has its share of problems too.  Still too much politics pre-SGW such as House of Cards (not to mention the infamous "kid worships me" line) and in 224 with politics interrupting Sonic and Naugus' fight with even Sonic acknowledging how stupid it all was.  His stories' pacing is dreadful with the Iron Dominion arc, Mecha Sally arc, and Shattered World Crisis being progressively longer and more tedious to read through; all sharing the same problem of having a decent beginning, bloated slow middle, and rushed ending.  Granted Mecha Sally's rushed ending wasn't quite his fault but his stories old reach their conclusions faster if he wasn't so concerned of cramming every Tom, Dick, and Harry in his stories.  Not every character has to be in every arc.

One reason I'm looking forward to these comics is to see if Ian really is all he's cracked up to be.  He has a clean slate so he can't hide behind the excuse of "cleaning up the previous writers' works" anymore (another thing that bugged me about his run).

[Razule]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

He's saying that Mario and Toriyama in general don't mind integrating older elements and lesser known concepts into their current works, so why shouldn't Sonic, which is closer to the latter anyway?

I understand that, but couldn't help but pick out the parts that didn't make much sense to me.

[RedFox99]

41 minutes ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games.  His writing has its share of problems too.  Still too much politics pre-SGW such as House of Cards (not to mention the infamous "kid worships me" line) and in 224 with politics interrupting Sonic and Naugus' fight with even Sonic acknowledging how stupid it all was.  His stories' pacing is dreadful with the Iron Dominion arc, Mecha Sally arc, and Shattered World Crisis being progressively longer and more tedious to read through; all sharing the same problem of having a decent beginning, bloated slow middle, and rushed ending.  Granted Mecha Sally's rushed ending wasn't quite his fault but his stories old reach their conclusions faster if he wasn't so concerned of cramming every Tom, Dick, and Harry in his stories.  Not every character has to be in every arc.

One reason I'm looking forward to these comics is to see if Ian really is all he's cracked up to be.  He has a clean slate so he can't hide behind the excuse of "cleaning up the previous writers' works" anymore (another thing that bugged me about his run).

Ian does seem to be aware of his writing flaws (a while ago, Tracy joked about how long the SWC was through a joke tweet about the first arc being a 2-3 year arc on GHZ), so this gives hope that he'll try not to repeat past mistakes. Plus, IDW seems to have higher standards than Archie did.

[Korke]

10 hours ago, Sean said:

I don't understand what the fuck either of you are talking about at all. Tons of franchises out there have spin-offs that aren't canon. Many of them have stories and casts that their fanbases love despite them not having any explicit canonical connection with each other. Sonic is not special, and it's only in this fucking fanbase you will find people arguing for deliberately creating shitty characters in order to spare the audience's sensitive feelings.

I can't even pretend to act cordial in this "discussion" because it's like I'm reading a fucking eldritch, incomprehensible space entity that is far beyond the limits of my inferior earth-born human brain in internet message board post form.

7 hours ago, Razule said:

1. In that context, "alternate timeline" is just a fancy way of saying "non-canon". It's not referenced in the current canon stuff.

2. I don't think this person is aware of the fact Multiverse is a fan work. And.. doesn't even include GT?

3. Where do people keep getting the idea Generations and Forces are alternate timelines..?

They already do that.

I don't see the correlation at all.. 

GT was a bad example, only the few people who like it do consider. Most of the fanbase call it "toei's fanfiction" nowadays.

The Generations problem is happening because of Forces, that Eggman line at GHZ boss battle.

1 hour ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games.  His writing has its share of problems too.  Still too much politics pre-SGW such as House of Cards (not to mention the infamous "kid worships me" line) and in 224 with politics interrupting Sonic and Naugus' fight with even Sonic acknowledging how stupid it all was.  His stories' pacing is dreadful with the Iron Dominion arc, Mecha Sally arc, and Shattered World Crisis being progressively longer and more tedious to read through; all sharing the same problem of having a decent beginning, bloated slow middle, and rushed ending.  Granted Mecha Sally's rushed ending wasn't quite his fault but his stories old reach their conclusions faster if he wasn't so concerned of cramming every Tom, Dick, and Harry in his stories.  Not every character has to be in every arc.

One reason I'm looking forward to these comics is to see if Ian really is all he's cracked up to be.  He has a clean slate so he can't hide behind the excuse of "cleaning up the previous writers' works" anymore (another thing that bugged me about his run).

Look, I probably have a... dis-taste of Flynn's writing as much as you do. But honestly, do we even have a better name at all for the games?

It's not like Drew Karpyshyn or someone else would be willing to write for a Sonic game of all places.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 hours ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games.  His writing has its share of problems too. 

You do realize that Ian’s fans, myself included, already know this, right?

You act like none of us have ever called out those problems when we’ve complained about them numerous times in the Archie topic alone. Why else do you think Ian die-hards hate House of Cards and the pacing of Iron Dominion and the Shattered World Crisis? Even while praised, they never said he was flawless.

[Nuggets]

13 hours ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games.  His writing has its share of problems too.  Still too much politics pre-SGW such as House of Cards (not to mention the infamous "kid worships me" line) and in 224 with politics interrupting Sonic and Naugus' fight with even Sonic acknowledging how stupid it all was.  His stories' pacing is dreadful with the Iron Dominion arc, Mecha Sally arc, and Shattered World Crisis being progressively longer and more tedious to read through; all sharing the same problem of having a decent beginning, bloated slow middle, and rushed ending.  Granted Mecha Sally's rushed ending wasn't quite his fault but his stories old reach their conclusions faster if he wasn't so concerned of cramming every Tom, Dick, and Harry in his stories.  Not every character has to be in every arc.

One reason I'm looking forward to these comics is to see if Ian really is all he's cracked up to be.  He has a clean slate so he can't hide behind the excuse of "cleaning up the previous writers' works" anymore (another thing that bugged me about his run).

Ian being the “least terrible Archie writer” still puts him miles above everyone that’s written for this series post-Adventure 2 lmfao. With Unleashed being the sole outlier. So I’m not really sure what you’re getting at here. 

No one is saying Flynn is perfect, but he at the very least can write a coherent script, which is more than I can say for what we’ve been getting for the past decade.

[Razule]

13 hours ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

Would people stop acting like Ian being the least terrible Archie writer automatically makes it okay for him to start writing for the games. 

But is he worse than what's came before though? Sonic's not Shakespeare, it doesn't have to be a master work.

[Graystripe2000]

GameInformer interview with Ian Flynn.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2018/02/15/writer-ian-flynn-discusses-giving-the-sonic-comic-series-a-fresh-start.aspx

[Celestia]

I don't really understand entertaining the notion that people only like his work because it's ~better than the other stuff~. I mean maybe it's just my interpretation but that's kinda like saying "you just like this because it is good and not bad."

In other news, here's an interview: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2018/02/15/writer-ian-flynn-discusses-giving-the-sonic-comic-series-a-fresh-start.aspx Some interesting stuff in there.

EDIT: Aw, beaten to it.

[Marco9966]

I can't open the link.

Can someone copy-paste the article here? (with spoilers to not annoy other users).