Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Slashy said:

So you disregard the people who like the Classic and Adventure era stories? Or the Unleashed story? The games are what the comics are based off of, and what people expect Sonic to be like is based off of the games. What you're asking for is something that isn't Sonic anymore

Man no Sonic has been Sonic for ages at this point.

Except for Mania.

[VelaNova]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man no Sonic has been Sonic for ages at this point.

Except for Mania.

So you're saying 3D Sonic isn't Sonic?

[Meta77]

Wait tone down rouges sexiness. That's literally one of her traits outside being a spy.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, VelaNova said:

So you're saying 3D Sonic isn't Sonic?

Pretty much.

Well, the 3D Sonic we have, anyway. I still believe in a theoretical Good 3D Sonic.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

14 minutes ago, Slashy said:

So you disregard the people who like the Classic and Adventure era stories? Or the Unleashed story?

So you disregard the people who like Pontac and Graff's stories, then? See how easy it is to flip that and how meaningless it is as a result? Lemme ask you this: when has the general reception of a Sonic game stated that it's story was great, even acceptable? Odds are it's either barely mentioned or noticeably bad. Whereas, that's always been the appeal of the comic by comparison. The comic is where people who want to see Sonic's narrative be good come to. Making the narrative the same between both would ruin the whole point.

14 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The games are what the comics are based off of, and what people expect Sonic to be like is based off of the games.

And what people expect from Sonic is not good storytelling, which is why the comics became known for exceeding expectations. Simply meeting them gives you a bad comic.

14 minutes ago, Slashy said:

 What you're asking for is something that isn't Sonic anymore or at least is some entirely new reimagining of the series which is NOT what IDW is trying to be.

I don't think you actually understand what I want out of the comic or what "Sonic" is.

14 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

What, not even Sonic Adventure?

Listen, I love SA1, but the actual story to the game just isn't very good. Sonic himself has basically no personality, only relegated to exposition in the JP version and occasional cheesy one-liners in the English version (which are not a substitute for actual characterization). The Angel Island and Chaos stuff has potential as a writing element, but Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles' campaigns beyond that are basically meaningless. Big is just a comic relief character who'd be better worked in alongside the rest, and Gamma's story just has nothing to do with the general plot of the game. If she and Gamma were more integrated with the main story and one another, I'd say maybe. But as a whole there's very little substance to it.

I'm not saying the whole series' plot is without merit or that there's no salvageable elements in any of it, but I'm saying that none of the series' plots are executed very well at all. I'd say it's comprised entirely of salvageable elements, which is rife for adaptation and reimagining, but it doesn't stand on it's own, and simply translating it to another medium would be poison for the general quality of what a comic book or Sonic series should be.

6 minutes ago, VelaNova said:

So you're saying 3D Sonic isn't Sonic?

He's absolutely saying that. It's kinda his thing.

[VelaNova]

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Well, the 3D Sonic we have, anyway. I still believe in a theoretical Good 3D Sonic.

It's almost like SA1, SA2, Colors and Gens weren't good.

 

5 minutes ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

He's absolutely saying that. It's kinda his thing.

Ohh...boy. Alright.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, VelaNova said:

It's almost like SA1, SA2, Colors and Gens weren't good.

Yes, it's very much like that.

[VelaNova]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Yes, it's very much like that.

...Alright man, that's your opinion, and I guess you're entitled to it.

[RedFox99]

To be honest, while I do think some elements of the games can help, hopefully, the comics can still have deep stories.

[Korke]

15 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

To be honest, while I do think some elements of the games can help, hopefully, the comics can still have deep stories.

Adaptations don't work... And I'm not talking about Shattered World Crisis, I want to bring Megaman to the table.

Megaman did receive some critical praise in the beginning and tried to work with adaptations.... But it flopped in the end - now locked in a probably eternal hiatus IIRC.

[Fire-N-Space]

I hope that Sonic Team has more control over the story this time that would help things stay  consistent.

[VelaNova]

5 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I hope that Sonic Team has more control over the story this time that would help things stay  consistent.

But Sonic Team themselves can't make things consistent. Though, I do agree with you.

[PublicEnemy1]

Black Knight had a pretty good story...

[VelaNova]

1 minute ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Black Knight had a pretty good story...

Black Knight had one of my favorite stories of any Sonic game, cartoon or comic.  It's really a shame that we didn't get a 3rd installment in the storybook series, or a comic adaptation to them.

[knuckles20]

If there were no “good” Sonic stories in the games, I would never gave a rat’s ass about this series. 

The reason I wanted the comics to stay as far away from the games as possible and why I was concerned with the new comics branching off Forces is because I’m not a fan of the constant nostalgia pandering of the genesis days or my favorite characters being portrayed doormats to Sonic when I know damn well they’re more than capable of taking action. 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

@Slashy

Why are you losing your sleep over a handful of new characters? Last 10 years added the Infinite, Deadly Six and Sticks. What makes Rough, Tumble and Tangle bigger from main cast distraction then them?

I'm also confused by Shaddy's argumentation. For sake of argument let's agree that all Sonic stories sucked (weird thing for Sonic forum, but whatever, his opinion).  It doesn't mean that competent writer can re-make them to be good. Megaman is "jump, shoot, fight same Willy for n-th time" and Flynn managed to something using that exact template.

 

[SSF1991]

In my case, I'm just simply tired of Forces. It has been nearly 2 years since the game was announced, and now the new IDW comics will be branching off from them? Regardless of the game's quality, regardless of how official or unofficial the Forces lore will be with the comics, it's tiring to see more of Forces again.

There's also a problem of contradictions. For the last year, all we have heard from SEGA and IDW is that "this is a new direction". These comics will be "new". "New new new". So what is our first look at the comics? An official/unofficial/whatever continuation of the Forces story. That's not new. Sure, there's a few new characters. But nothing else. I'm not really getting a "new" vibe here. I get that this is the start of the IDW comics, but when your PR for the last year is "this will be new" and nothing else, then yes, that's incentive to feel that the comics will be starting off fresh. But simply riding off of Forces isn't fresh at all. Archie Sonic lore frequently used the games for their stories. Sure, it's technically post-Forces here, but it's still Forces. You're using its story, which has already been dragged out across two games, a mobile title and a comic, to drag it out even further.

Forces is out now. It's done. I'd like to move forward from that now.

[Slashy]

23 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

@Slashy

Why are you losing your sleep over a handful of new characters? Last 10 years added the Infinite, Deadly Six and Sticks. What makes Rough, Tumble and Tangle bigger from main cast distraction then them?

I'm also confused by Shaddy's argumentation. For sake of argument let's agree that all Sonic stories sucked (weird thing for Sonic forum, but whatever, his opinion).  It doesn't mean that competent writer can re-make them to be good. Megaman is "jump, shoot, fight same Willy for n-th time" and Flynn managed to something using that exact template.

 

Rough, Tumble, and Tangle are going to be regulars for a long running series, if they were story arc only characters then that would be a different story. Sticks is designed in a way where any of the main cast can disregard her so she doesn't affect the group dynamic, and didn't get as many focus episodes as the rest of the cast. If you remove Sticks, then little would change about the series except some amazing jokes from there. If Tangle really is how she is described, you know a "kindred spirit" to Sonic, she will affect the group dynamic.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

24 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm also confused by Shaddy's argumentation. For sake of argument let's agree that all Sonic stories sucked (weird thing for Sonic forum, but whatever, his opinion).  It doesn't mean that competent writer can re-make them to be good. Megaman is "jump, shoot, fight same Willy for n-th time" and Flynn managed to something using that exact template.

My point is that acting like a series needs to be so accurate to the games as to not have any new characters is ridiculous to the point that you might as well preserve every problem with this series' bad stories. And I honestly do think there aren't really any good stories in the games. The gameplay, character design and visual flair of Sonic has always been what's drawn me to it, never the plot. That's why the comics are so important to me, because they do take the things that the games are usually a trainwreck on and turn them into something cool. Their liberties are their biggest strength.

I don't think holding such an opinion is so unreasonable for a Sonic forum considering we have way more broad statements and extremist views than me here. I will concede that my constantly italicizing how much they SUCK might mislead to believe that I hate the stories more than I do or whatever, but I honestly think that there aren't any stories I would consider better than "unobjectionable" with this series, even the ones I like, and that's hardly a thing unique to Sonic. I would say the same about other games I actually enjoy, like Kirby or Mario's main games, which are even worse in some manner.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Rough, Tumble, and Tangle are going to be regulars for a long running series,

Do you know that though?

[MetalSkulkBane]

5 hours ago, Slashy said:

Rough, Tumble, and Tangle are going to be regulars for a long running series, if they were story arc only characters then that would be a different story. Sticks is designed in a way where any of the main cast can disregard her so she doesn't affect the group dynamic, and didn't get as many focus episodes as the rest of the cast. If you remove Sticks, then little would change about the series except some amazing jokes from there. If Tangle really is how she is described, you know a "kindred spirit" to Sonic, she will affect the group dynamic.

I hate judging something that didn't came out yet, but I think Rough/Tumble will be Bean ana Bark at best, probably less. Eggman and his army will always be the main threat, so you shouldn't be offended.

A for Tangle, we really don't know how big impact she will have. But let's play 'worst' case scenario. Let's say she will be new Sticks, a 5th member to team Sonic. Will it be really so bad? Previous comics had 5 ""OCs"" freedom fighters. Single character is big improvement in 'time stealing' department. And knowing Flynn, tangle will only add to team dynamics, rather then remove.

5 hours ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

My point is that acting like a series needs to be so accurate to the games as to not have any new characters is ridiculous to the point that you might as well preserve every problem with this series' bad stories. And I honestly do think there aren't really any good stories in the games. The gameplay, character design and visual flair of Sonic has always been what's drawn me to it, never the plot. That's why the comics are so important to me, because they do take the things that the games are usually a trainwreck on and turn them into something cool. Their liberties are their biggest strength.

I don't think holding such an opinion is so unreasonable for a Sonic forum considering we have way more broad statements and extremist views than me here. I will concede that my constantly italicizing how much they SUCK might mislead to believe that I hate the stories more than I do or whatever, but I honestly think that there aren't any stories I would consider better than "unobjectionable" with this series, even the ones I like, and that's hardly a thing unique to Sonic. I would say the same about other games I actually enjoy, like Kirby or Mario's main games, which are even worse in some manner.

Ok, that I can understand.

[Marcello]

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

In my case, I'm just simply tired of Forces. It has been nearly 2 years since the game was announced, and now the new IDW comics will be branching off from them? Regardless of the game's quality, regardless of how official or unofficial the Forces lore will be with the comics, it's tiring to see more of Forces again.

There's also a problem of contradictions. For the last year, all we have heard from SEGA and IDW is that "this is a new direction". These comics will be "new". "New new new". So what is our first look at the comics? An official/unofficial/whatever continuation of the Forces story. That's not new. Sure, there's a few new characters. But nothing else. I'm not really getting a "new" vibe here. I get that this is the start of the IDW comics, but when your PR for the last year is "this will be new" and nothing else, then yes, that's incentive to feel that the comics will be starting off fresh. But simply riding off of Forces isn't fresh at all. Archie Sonic lore frequently used the games for their stories. Sure, it's technically post-Forces here, but it's still Forces. You're using its story, which has already been dragged out across two games, a mobile title and a comic, to drag it out even further.

Forces is out now. It's done. I'd like to move forward from that now.

2

A new story is new. They are moving forward from Forces.

[Your Vest Friend]

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

In my case, I'm just simply tired of Forces. It has been nearly 2 years since the game was announced, and now the new IDW comics will be branching off from them? Regardless of the game's quality, regardless of how official or unofficial the Forces lore will be with the comics, it's tiring to see more of Forces again.

Forces is out now. It's done. I'd like to move forward from that now.

I'm actually lumping the opening and closing together here because they're more relevant to each other than my reply for the body, but...

Lost World was being focused on for three years after its release. Forces is not only as important as that game (if not moreso), but it was more successful to boot.

They ain't moving forward from that for a good while yet. Maybe even up until the 30th anniversary game. 

1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

There's also a problem of contradictions. For the last year, all we have heard from SEGA and IDW is that "this is a new direction". These comics will be "new". "New new new". So what is our first look at the comics? An official/unofficial/whatever continuation of the Forces story. That's not new. Sure, there's a few new characters. But nothing else. I'm not really getting a "new" vibe here. I get that this is the start of the IDW comics, but when your PR for the last year is "this will be new" and nothing else, then yes, that's incentive to feel that the comics will be starting off fresh. But simply riding off of Forces isn't fresh at all. Archie Sonic lore frequently used the games for their stories. Sure, it's technically post-Forces here, but it's still Forces. You're using its story, which has already been dragged out across two games, a mobile title and a comic, to drag it out even further.

Using Forces as jumping off point doesn't mean it's not a new direction. In contrast to the Archie comic, it's a vastly different approach from the way the characters were organised (and probably stories, which direction the characters will go in etc). And because of the very nature of comics, it's going to be a different direction to the games' narrative as well. 

Anyway, as for character conversation, I think there is some room to be concerned...but not for the presence of Rough/Tumble/Tangle alone. No, it's this one line that we seem to have left by the wayside.

Quote

Rough and Tumble are the first of a whole host of new characters planned for the new series. 

That is just really nebulous on what it means for the comic.

[Red Hot Jack]

4 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

In my case, I'm just simply tired of Forces. It has been nearly 2 years since the game was announced, and now the new IDW comics will be branching off from them? Regardless of the game's quality, regardless of how official or unofficial the Forces lore will be with the comics, it's tiring to see more of Forces again.

There's also a problem of contradictions. For the last year, all we have heard from SEGA and IDW is that "this is a new direction". These comics will be "new". "New new new". So what is our first look at the comics? An official/unofficial/whatever continuation of the Forces story. That's not new. Sure, there's a few new characters. But nothing else. I'm not really getting a "new" vibe here. I get that this is the start of the IDW comics, but when your PR for the last year is "this will be new" and nothing else, then yes, that's incentive to feel that the comics will be starting off fresh. But simply riding off of Forces isn't fresh at all. Archie Sonic lore frequently used the games for their stories. Sure, it's technically post-Forces here, but it's still Forces. You're using its story, which has already been dragged out across two games, a mobile title and a comic, to drag it out even further.

Forces is out now. It's done. I'd like to move forward from that now.

Is it really that much of Forces? Not only it's the first 4 issues, but it looks more like a jumping point, and in the solicits there isn't really much indication that it it's again about the Forces plot, all they say is that the resistance is still going, we don't know if Sonic will accept to return but I'd rather not, he's a free spirit, the resistance can continue without him, since there aren't any major threats for now. But sure, I would love to know what happened to Infinite, and I would love to see the Avatars making their own team and getting real personalities. There is just so much to do with Forces' story, and so much to do to fix its issues.

[Swing]

Well, when it comes to story and characters in Sonic they do not really have to be good. But they do have to look and sound "cool". Sounding cool and looking cool was always inda the stick with Sonic.