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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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13 hours ago, Zaysho said:

That said, I don't believe most people care if they're different (never mind Archie went out of their way to align those characters with the updated presentations, even though Charmy got the short end of the stick, but even Flynn has admitted that was a mistake on his part)

I'm reading this two ways and in both ways my reply is "they actually quite do care". 

If you're talking about people from outside the comic sphere caring about them being different in Archie, they most certainly did prior to Chaotix Quest. You have to remember that despite their various appearances, the Chaotix weren't well developed at all for most of their Archie lifetime due to being made into Knuckles' flunkies and getting no sort of action independent of that (Fleetway was better than that, and they didn't have Sonic Heroes!). And that's not even including what you mentioned above, or tying Espio to a clan, or throwing the detective title in superficially so you didn't have to actually do anything with it (seriously, does anyone remember the fact Archie called them detectives before Chaotix Quest? Even though  they didn't act like it?). They were different post-reboot too but it's mainly people like me who care about it because it contradicts the game stuff in places...at that point you've got a better argument of saying that they didn't care. 

If you're talking about comic fans caring about them being different in the games...don't get me started. 

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1 hour ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

That's the thing, though -- I don't think there's much distinction, particularly to a newcomer, between coming in and having to look up a game to know the background of where we are, having numerous issues already happened, or just doing as the reboot did. The benefit of the latter is that at least everyone old and new was on equal footing.

I'm not certain about that. I do still believe the former stands the chance of working a bit better than what that reboot did. I can see that distinction being crucial for a lot of people. Especially those who're already well-versed in the games. That'd remove an extra step for a few people. 

But this is all speculation at the end of the day.

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10 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

You know the more I think about it the more I think it's possible for concepts from Archie to stick around. I mean fashionista Honey and Team Hooligan's aren't exactly what I'd call purely Archie exclusive ideas. 

Fashionista Honey no, that's more a reference to her Fighting Vipers counterpart. And not just the fact she's a fashionista; Candy is stated to be her own tailor too. 

Team Hooligan is more debatable. While they're the three playable characters that weren't seen future games, Bean and Bark were the ones paired together, while Fang wasn't viewed as being to do with them. If anything, a team with Honey, Bean and Bark makes more sense. The cameos in Generations and Mania weren't even included by Sonic Team, they were put in by AAUK and the Mania team respectively. 

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1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm reading this two ways and in both ways my reply is "they actually quite do care". 

If you're talking about people from outside the comic sphere caring about them being different in Archie, they most certainly did prior to Chaotix Quest. You have to remember that despite their various appearances, the Chaotix weren't well developed at all for most of their Archie lifetime due to being made into Knuckles' flunkies and getting no sort of action independent of that (Fleetway was better than that, and they didn't have Sonic Heroes!). And that's not even including what you mentioned above, or tying Espio to a clan, or throwing the detective title in superficially so you didn't have to actually do anything with it (seriously, does anyone remember the fact Archie called them detectives before Chaotix Quest? Even though  they didn't act like it?). They were different post-reboot too but it's mainly people like me who care about it because it contradicts the game stuff in places...at that point you've got a better argument of saying that they didn't care. 

If you're talking about comic fans caring about them being different in the games...don't get me started. 

What?!

They did?!

What the fuck...?

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm not certain about that. I do still believe the former stands the chance of working a bit better than what that reboot did. I can see that distinction being crucial for a lot of people. Especially those who're already well-versed in the games. That'd remove an extra step for a few people. 

But this is all speculation at the end of the day.

If there's one amazing thing I've learned, it's that there are a lot of Sonic fans who have never touched the games and are perfectly content not to, especially where the comics are concerned.

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32 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

You know the more I think about it the more I think it's possible for concepts from Archie to stick around. I mean fashionista Honey and Team Hooligan's aren't exactly what I'd call purely Archie exclusive ideas. 

From what I heard, Sega technically owns everything post-reboot. The issue is whether they choose to use those things (FFs included).

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4 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

From what I heard, Sega technically owns everything post-reboot. The issue is whether they choose to use those things (FFs included).

Pretty much Ian said that anything in the comic post SGW like the SEGA & SATAM characters are owned by SEGA not Archie.  So if SEGA allows we could still potentially see the eggbosses in the IDW book.  I for one loved Cassia & Clove, would be cool with them surviving this mess.

 

 

Also wonder if SEGA would let IDW use villians from Boom as well?  I would'nt mind seeing T.W. Barker show up & antagonize Sonic & Co. from time to time.

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7 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Pretty much Ian said that anything in the comic post SGW like the SEGA & SATAM characters are owned by SEGA not Archie.  So if SEGA allows we could still potentially see the eggbosses in the IDW book.  I for one loved Cassia & Clove, would be cool with them surviving this mess.

 

 

Also wonder if SEGA would let IDW use villians from Boom as well?  I would'nt mind seeing T.W. Barker show up & antagonize Sonic & Co. from time to time.

Of course, Penders said the same thing once upon a time, before he started backpedaling so hard and fast that you'd be forgiven for thinking the handlebars were on the wrong end of his bike.

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14 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Pretty much Ian said that anything in the comic post SGW like the SEGA & SATAM characters are owned by SEGA not Archie.  So if SEGA allows we could still potentially see the eggbosses in the IDW book.  I for one loved Cassia & Clove, would be cool with them surviving this mess.

 

 

Also wonder if SEGA would let IDW use villians from Boom as well?  I would'nt mind seeing T.W. Barker show up & antagonize Sonic & Co. from time to time.

Maybe they could make their own versions of the main Boom setting maybe like a Bygone City.

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1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

Yeah, it's at the very least mentioned in Sonic Universe #9, but I'm probably forgetting earlier instances. 

Ugh. 

Yeah, I'm convinced that who they are and what their position is in the comic matters quite a whole lot. It's not something I ever needed to wonder. It was fairly obvious to me when you look at the pre-reboot iteration of the Chaotix versus their post reboot versions. They had more of a spotlight and more exposure than I had ever seen them get in the rebooted universe which hadn't been around for anywhere near as long as the pre-reboot continuity.

The only points of interest I can highlight in the issues I own from 150 up to the issue before the first Megaman crossover was the Espio thing with the ninja clan and that was so far removed from anything I associated with his character that it was hard to get into (For me personally. I know for others, people would find it incredibly fitting he'd have this simple backstory of being from an entire clan of ninja chameleons but...)

Other than that, I think Vector had some baggage in Downunda that was... very vaguely talked about. 

I feel like comparing the way the characters were handled pre-reboot versus post-reboot kind of made my opinion of the pre-reboot continuity a bit worse for me. I know a lot of people liked it but it wasn't quite up the alley of someone like me who wanted to see my favorite characters at the forefront. If Sonic Universe had never come into existence I probably wouldn't have seen them get a chance to do something together as a unit ever again even. Chaotix Quest may have not been about the three Chaotix I actually gave a shit about but I at least got to see them do some stuff. 

I also can't completely get over the worry I'd have seeing the Freedom Fighters return, as well as the whole Freedom Fighters system of ..."government".Now if they showed up and were secondary characters apart of an organization separate from what Sonic and Tails were doing for instance, I could see myself getting on board with that. But I really don't want to do the thing where Sonic's a soldier, a part of a professionally constructed team of Super Friends in the Hall of Justice, working in a space where characters from an old cartoon I didn't really watch constantly get top-billing over the others.

That's a purely personal opinion but it's one I can't help but express and I apologize to all those who really liked all that stuff. 

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35 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm reading this two ways and in both ways my reply is "they actually quite do care". 

If you're talking about people from outside the comic sphere caring about them being different in Archie, they most certainly did prior to Chaotix Quest. You have to remember that despite their various appearances, the Chaotix weren't well developed at all for most of their Archie lifetime due to being made into Knuckles' flunkies and getting no sort of action independent of that (Fleetway was better than that, and they didn't have Sonic Heroes!). And that's not even including what you mentioned above, or tying Espio to a clan, or throwing the detective title in superficially so you didn't have to actually do anything with it (seriously, does anyone remember the fact Archie called them detectives before Chaotix Quest? Even though  they didn't act like it?). They were different post-reboot too but it's mainly people like me who care about it because it contradicts the game stuff in places...at that point you've got a better argument of saying that they didn't care. 

If you're talking about comic fans caring about them being different in the games...don't get me started. 

Maybe it's just me, then, I don't know. It never bugged me that one interpretation was different from the other or inconsistent with the games, because it never felt like it had some kind of effect on what SEGA did. It was just another way of seeing them for me and I could separate the two just fine. I can't really defend the way the changes to the Chaotix were made int he book, though, especially since the changes were largely tacked on (I give Vector's physical change a pass though I agree the detective bit was quite superficial). I liked them for what they were, but in practice they didn't fit the context of the book very well.

I admit it's not fair of me to say "I don't believe most people care," but I also stand by it's fine if the interpretations are different because it wasn't meant to be like the games. I suppose with the Chaotix specifically, they were stuck more so than with any other character.

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So I'm wondering whether or not a "new direction" necessarily means a reboot. I mean maybe the writers could end up focusing more on the video game characters while comic exclusive characters like the FFs, Egg bosses, etc would be more side story characters or would be given their own spin offs.

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Holy smoke, the entitlement from several posters here is through the roof. Seriously, I have never seen such a greedy, demanding collection of fans before.

SEGA owes you for buying their licensed comic book series for X number of years?

Those characters were here for years so they must to be a part of the franchise or else?

If IDW don’t use the FFs in their book it will be a failure right out the door.

If IDW knowns what is best for them they’ll hire Ian Flynn and continue the comic where Archie left off?

I never wanted to come back to this forum or to have anything to do with it. But this level of entitlement from so many people just forced me to comment here again.

 Seriously, you lost your comic thanks to Archie F****** SEGA over so many times I’m amazed they even allowed them to keep the license for so many years. You all talk like SEGA is KGB on crack when the truth is Archie abuse the license, miss represented Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and all the other game characters to prop up their “OMG, so original” fan characters time and again.

Worse than that, the blatantly insulting and degrading responses from editors, writers and certain artists in regards to fans asking them for more material with the other female game characters instead of their furry love drama crew just smacks of them being a collection of idiots who never should have been allowed near the book in the first place.

If IDW knows what’s best for them, they’ll keep Ian Flynn and Tracy Yardley away from the book to reduce problematic storylines, characterizations and shipping combats. And to avoid any legal issues or conflicts with SEGA and Archie plus Archie’s ex-employees, they must stay away from any Archie material as that is a loaded time bomb ready to go off whenever bitter ex writers and artists crawls out from under their rocks to sue SEGA and IDW for Archie’s screw ups.

Now I’m out of here, I’m done with this place once and for all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBluZ2_Pgg

 

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 Personally I would say telling fans they don't deserve to have characters they like exist is just as much entitlememt as anything else.   The whole mindset that only characters that have shown up in games from Adventure & on should appear/matter is a very narrow-minded way to look at a franchise about superpowered anthropamorphized talking animals.

 

 That's like saying Batman/DC should never have started using Harley Quinn or Marvel should never have used X-23 since they originated in cartoons instead of comics.

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I posted earlier but if people want the new comic to import and go on with where Archie left off, they may need the same writers to fully revive and continue the Archie's Sonic-universe to it's potential and as people liked it. Since SEGA claims "new direction" this seem unlikely. The other and easiest for them but annoying to certain fans is to starting it fresh on a clean slate, Satam and old media characters possible if allowed and wanted by SEGA and IDW. The in-between compromise is to import some characters and stuff and do a "reboot" of the world.

That makes me wonder. If IDW did recycle SOME ideas from Archie but changed the other, how much change are you guys ok with?

For example will you guys be ok with only the main FF present with their current design but different backstory and personality, other FFs either not existing or as minor background characters? Each Eggbosses exist, but as normal villains or even friends instead of working under Eggman? Honey not being a founder of a fashion brand and being a normal cosplay girl (I know she's based on the original Honey but let's say SEGA/IDW ignores)? 

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I am fine with changes as long as the characters are allowed to continue to exist.  Make the Freedom Fighters G.U.N. agents for all I care.  Make Honey Amy's annoying best friend.  Make Mighty & Ray average joes inspired by Sonic to do heroic deeds.  As long as they still exist i'm good.

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42 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Anyway, I kind of hope they give Sonic's friends more develop in the new comic. Maybe expand on their pasts a bit more like where's Cream's dad, why did Eggman become evil, etc...

Eggman is Cream's dad.

Before he left, her name would have been "Cream Egg" from the town of Cadbury.

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What if the whole history of the Master Emerald got wiped from the comics, thus allowing Knuckles to do something else? I know, an absolute mad idea. Would it work? Could it be made to work? I know that would just rip the entire canon of Chaos Emeralds apart, but would a rewrite of even that history work out?

What would you all say?

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