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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Holy shit, I just learned about this!

DYcMQxlX4AEKZAL.jpgI thought it was Mania Adventures they were in?

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How do you even make that mistake?

 

They're described as being back to back in battle, with them both facing the bad guys and shaking hands at the same time. Tangle uses her tail, Sonic shakes it, unknowingly.

2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

They did go into Mighty and Ray though. Interesting, they are imposing a classic separation for them. Might do the same for Fang. Bean and Bark as well then. 

That's kind of a big thing. RIP Mighty and Ray in comics for sometime then.

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

They could also be classic-locked, or even spun off as a new IP.

That comment was made before the "not in 2018" information, so...

But you bring up a good point.  They said Mighty and Ray, and I'm just gonna assume Fang, Bean, and Bark by extension, wouldn't be in because they're "classic" characters and the comic will focus the "modern" universe despite the five having faux-modern designs via Archie.  If they're truly drawing a thick, fine line between the two universes based on games then that leaves the Freedom Fighters without a home unless they really wanna stretch and count their 2-second cameos from that one minigame from Spinball.  Of course that would mean Sally would be restricted to her pink design and no Antoine but Muttski would be viable (lol).

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I'm too married to my bias towards what I grew up with and as a result it seems that I don't really have a problem with Mighty, Ray, and the Hooligans being tied to the Mania canon. 

If they were to be included in the comic I wouldn't throw a fit though. I'm just not losing sleep over it.

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But...Nack especially was in the Archie comic since what the late #20's or so. Perhaps the Triple Trouble special, I forget. If you grew up with Archie Sonic then he's been in it almost since it's infancy. He did tend to have long patches of no-show tho.

There are times this whole separation between "Classic" and "Modern" is a big pain in the butt. Sega should just bite the damn bullet and give the older characters an official redesign so they can be used in other media. This whole dimension thing instead of what most considered future/past is causing even more divide.

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2 hours ago, Tenko said:

But...Nack especially was in the Archie comic since what the late #20's or so. Perhaps the Triple Trouble special, I forget. If you grew up with Archie Sonic then he's been in it almost since it's infancy. He did tend to have long patches of no-show tho.

There are times this whole separation between "Classic" and "Modern" is a big pain in the butt. Sega should just bite the damn bullet and give the older characters an official redesign so they can be used in other media. This whole dimension thing instead of what most considered future/past is causing even more divide.

Nack wasn't involved in any of what I grew up with.

I grew up with 2 episodes of AoSth on VHS, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic X onward. When it comes to the Archie comics, I randomly bought Issue 181 at a bookstore one day, didn't buy anymore until I picked it up again at 194 and moved onward. As a result I struggled to get over the fact that it was a book that wasn't really geared towards what I, at the time, and still today, wanted the most out of a Sonic comic which admittedly was just a story about the modern world and the characters I was familiar with. I like the Hooligans for what they contributed to the book as villains though. I got behind them more than I ever could with the Freedom Fighters (and I tried with them too but... that ended up not happening...)

So you know. Again, I don't have a problem if they were to show up. I'm not losing sleep over them being gone though.

You know. It's all about what kind of fan you are and why you're even here, looking forward to these comics. I've got several binders full of the comics but I enjoy them for different reasons then most. 

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1 hour ago, Tenko said:

This whole dimension thing instead of what most considered future/past is causing even more divide.

This has got nowt to do with the dimension thing and everything to do with Sonic Team just not wanting them in the modern games. 

They left these guys to rot for 21-25 years precisely because they weren't interested in using them. In this period, their appearances in the games were treated on-par with any other comic original in terms of how significant they were, so it's not like they were overly invested in them while the Archie comic was going on. 

Now they've given another company and a fraction of the Western side a place where they can have their own little playground effectively, for the classic-style gaming and concepts they don't want to use themselves still. It just so happens that the tradeoff is that the scrapped characters they used go from having no lock due to being inactive to being classic-locked. They have a higher status of recognition, but it doesn't come without consequences. 

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1 minute ago, VEDJ-F said:

This has got nowt to do with the dimension thing and everything to do with Sonic Team just not wanting them in the modern games. 

They left these guys to rot for 21-25 years precisely because they weren't interested in using them. In this period, their appearances in the games were treated on-par with any other comic original in terms of how significant they were, so it's not like they were overly invested in them while the Archie comic was going on. 

Now they've given another company and a fraction of the Western side a place where they can have their own little playground effectively, for the classic-style gaming and concepts they don't want to use themselves still. It just so happens that the tradeoff is that the scrapped character they used go from having no lock due to being inactive to being classic-locked. They have a higher status of recognition, but it doesn't come without consequences. 

Hopefully the Freedom Fighters have no lock, or, if they do, they could become active again.

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So pretty much if it's an inactive character thats modern, theirs a good chance of them being used in the comics. but if said character is active in any other offshoot thats not in the modern canon, then fuck it theirs no chance in hell.

Along with Mighty and Ray & the hooligans Sticks would be another example of this, not inactive but belongs to an offshoot of the Sonic franchise, not like anything from Boom could be used anyways.

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49 minutes ago, Tenko said:

But...Nack especially was in the Archie comic since what the late #20's or so. Perhaps the Triple Trouble special, I forget. If you grew up with Archie Sonic then he's been in it almost since it's infancy. He did tend to have long patches of no-show tho.

There are times this whole separation between "Classic" and "Modern" is a big pain in the butt. Sega should just bite the damn bullet and give the older characters an official redesign so they can be used in other media. This whole dimension thing instead of what most considered future/past is causing even more divide.

On the flip side, should the Modern Sonic book do well enough, it's perfectly conceivable that a Classic Sonic book could become a thing, and everything in Mania would be prominently featured there. Similarly, if the Classic Sonic only elements are received well and become popular enough, it is possible Sega could reintroduce them into the Modern franchise as well. I'm not concerned about it and honestly the characters are better positioned for continued use and success by being associated with Mania then as minor characters in a spin off book.

I'm kinda curious what all fits under the "Classic Sonic" umbrella right now though. Obviously we have confirmation that the Classic designs and Mighty and Ray are Classic Sonic, making it a fair assumption that Fang, Bean, Bark, and everything else in Mania is also Classic Sonic. But where does that leave other pre-Sonic Adventure elements that aren't referenced in Mania? Are the Witchcarters and Battle Bird Armada bound by Classic Sonic since they're from a pre-SA1 title, or are they still considered "forgotten" and therefore available from something like IDW Sonic as they were for Archie Sonic? If something is considered forgotten now and available, if a follow up to Mania reintroduces a character or concept will that retroactively make them Classic Sonic and therefore unavailable for use in IDW Sonic from that point forward? Today they said the door isn't closed for the Freedom Fighters to show up in the future, does that mean the DiC concepts aren't considered Classic Sonic despite when they came out, or in the Freedom Fighters and SSSS Squad despite appearing in Spinball and Mean Bean Machine (how would the original concepts from those games be classified, like say Hip and Hop?)? Once again, if the Mania team later got permission to use the DiC concepts, would they also be retroactively barred from IDW Sonic?

I'm also curious what all IDW can use now from the other branches of the franchise. Ian previously stated the DiC concepts were kept in Archie Sonic due to being grandfathered in by contracts from when Archie and Sonic first worked together. I assume those same terms aren't being applied now, so if DiC concepts are still available, does IDW have stuff like X or Boom available as well? If Boom is still relevant enough that Sega doesn't want those concepts mixing with Modern Sonic elements, would IDW have the ability to produce a Boom comic should their be enough talent available?

Lots of questions. Excited to learn more later.

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I imagine Mighty and Ray (and probably the Hooligans thanks to Mania) being locked to classic stuff is that they're now on Sega's radar, as Classic characters, and thus any other involvement for them falls under Sega's scrutiny, and it's now up to them to determine how they're used in a broader context. Basically, Sega wants IDW to avoid any contradictions in how Mighty and Ray are portrayed should they ever decide to have them make the jump from Mania to involvement in bigger things.

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3 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

Similarly, if the Classic Sonic only elements are received well and become popular enough, it is possible Sega could reintroduce them into the Modern franchise as well.

I sincerely doubt that to be honest. If they've wanted them separate for two decades (to the point of not using them), I don't see them changing their mind even in the face of Mania. I mean, even way back when the divide happened, they weren't separated out due to their popularity (Fang at least was probably far more familiar with the general audience than Espio (or any of the other Chaotix but I'm speaking strictly non-Sonic Team made)). 

3 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I'm kinda curious what all fits under the "Classic Sonic" umbrella right now though. Obviously we have confirmation that the Classic designs and Mighty and Ray are Classic Sonic, making it a fair assumption that Fang, Bean, Bark, and everything else in Mania is also Classic Sonic. But where does that leave other pre-Sonic Adventure elements that aren't referenced in Mania? Are the Witchcarters and Battle Bird Armada bound by Classic Sonic since they're from a pre-SA1 title, or are they still considered "forgotten" and therefore available from something like IDW Sonic as they were for Archie Sonic? If something is considered forgotten now and available, if a follow up to Mania reintroduces a character or concept will that retroactively make them Classic Sonic and therefore unavailable for use in IDW Sonic from that point forward?

Hmm....you have a good point about the remaining classic cast. I would have said they were fair game but retroactive locking would mess with that. Unless there are just some ideas SEGA would deny even the Mania team (I could see any characters originating from a Tails branded game getting this, for example), keeping them permanently unlocked and free for the comic to use.

3 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

Today they said the door isn't closed for the Freedom Fighters to show up in the future, does that mean the DiC concepts aren't considered Classic Sonic despite when they came out, or in the Freedom Fighters and SSSS Squad despite appearing in Spinball and Mean Bean Machine (how would the original concepts from those games be classified, like say Hip and Hop?)? Once again, if the Mania team later got permission to use the DiC concepts, would they also be retroactively barred from IDW Sonic?

God knows at this point. They keeping saying that the door's open to stuff like them and Fleetway of all things, but we know for a fact that there are still restrictions on alternate media because Sonic Underground can't be touched. 

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If it were me, regardless of my personal feelings, I probably wouldn't bother with the alternate media stuff at all. Just talking about it sounds like it'd be a confusing back and forth that's barely worth getting into when the primary concern is to get a comic off the ground with the concepts and characters that you definitely know you can use without much of an issue. If it ever becomes viable and worth it enough to be implemented without much of a hassle trying to sort things out, or heaven forbid, concern for outside Penders parties throwing their hats into the ring because of a bunch of legal nonsense no one saw coming then maybe I'd think about giving it a shot.

At the moment though, I can't blame anyone over there for wanting to focus just on the main series stuff. 

It sucks for me too because I want that Danny meets Bocoe and Decoe buddy-cop comedy. Special guest starring Germone Wise; the President's aid who got fired and immediately went to being a bum who dug through garbage cans on the streets in Sonic X. That story was magical.

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I hope that the Battle Bird Armada is still open for use and not locked. While I would love to see them in Mania 2 perhaps, I still really want to see what Ian had planned for them. The way he has talked about his ideas for Archie that never got used or submitted it sounds like he might rewrite a few to use in IDW, and it seemed like there was going to be a return of the Armada after the whole Shattered World thing.

Speaking of, if they did bring them in, would they use a more accurate design of Speedy, akin to Drawloverlala's with Speedy being white and wearing armour not a...eggshell type nappy?

Hmm..also if the Freedom Fighters do show up in 2019 based on the recent comments, do you think Nagus will be back too? 

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At the end of a day I can live without Mighty, Ray or Hooligans. Maybe IDW wil change policy and add them later, maybe not. Either way I'll be fine. Still, it seems a bit strange that Mania is crazy popular now, yet they don't want to use classic characters here.

Maybe they planning Classic book later down the line? Personally I can take it, but would pick SU or Shadow book over it without slightest hesitation. Even Boom can potentially lead to more unique stories than "Sonic, jokes, Eggman, badniks". Main tittle can do this just fine, thank you.

(Also, I do wonder if Chaotix will ever appear in Mania/Mania Adventures/ any of other classic property).

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1 hour ago, GentlemanX said:

Today they said the door isn't closed for the Freedom Fighters to show up in the future, does that mean the DiC concepts aren't considered Classic Sonic despite when they came out, or in the Freedom Fighters and SSSS Squad despite appearing in Spinball and Mean Bean Machine (how would the original concepts from those games be classified, like say Hip and Hop?)?

Ray and Mighty were de-confirmed for the IDW Sonic era for now because they are Classic characters and IDW Sonic is Modern. The Freedom Fighters have been modernized beyond all recognition and they have long since become their own thing, so I don't think there is any worry about that. Hell, I think the Freedom Fighters have become more known for being comic characters than SatAM characters nowadays. And they'd fit in the IDW Sonic comics well.

 

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This is really unfortunate news. I rather liked Mighty and Ray in the comics. Their inclusion in Mania is not all good news after all. I'm kinda hoping this doesn't extend to the other remaining characters.

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It's stupid, we can only play them for 30 minutes in a 2D with no story,

Rather than have them in the comic with stories, characterizations, emotions....

Sad.

They  took the design of Ray from the modern comics to insert him on Sonic Mania.

They took the hooligan trio from the modern comics to insert them on Sonic Mania.

That's what SEGA does to us when we ask them we want to see classic characters again.

 

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I'm honestly not going to keep my hopes up with the FFs, positive vagueness or not.  Even if they will show up, I find it a little bit hard to see them pop up as soon as next year.  Not saying they wouldn't be welcome, because they are, but I don't want to set myself up for getting burned.  My big gripe though lies with Mighty and Ray.  Possibly the Hooligans as well.  That Classic/Mania only segregation is one big pile of total bull.  There's just no need to make it this complicated.  It's not helped by the fact that the duo were pretty good as characters in the old volumes and if the Hooligans are going the same way, then IDW's just lost themselves cast members a lot would consider too good to lose.  Although if they are open, then that just makes the exclusion of M&R all the more idiotic.

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I'm pretty disappointed about the whole situation regarding Mighty, Ray, and our Hooligans. I'm also really disappointed that they didn't just get the Freedom Fighters question out of the way months ago instead of waiting through panel over panel getting the questions about them then Ian blaming us, the fanbase, for not asking at this particular con for them so he can talk about them. I'd like to tell him that there's no reason to get so defensive but something tells me there's a ton of stress here that he doesn't want to talk about. 

Why does Ian feel like he's actually kind of sick of dealing with Sonic now? The first issue is a mess in that it doesn't even have a solid mini story that's easy for anyone to follow unless they played Sonic Forces (how well did this game do again?) and expecting people who read this to have the baggage from that in this book. This is bad for a casual reader and things just kind of happen? It puts the reader in the middle of action without a care for what matters in a comic book: the marriage of art and story. There's a recap of Sonic fighting Eggman, Eggman disappears. Then we get right back into there being a fight in a village, things happen, Sonic moves along after some baggage with Tails that doesn't make any sense unless you played Forces. In fact, this book seems to think everyone played all of the Sonic games from 1998-now even though there was the SXSW panel where a kid said they were a lifelong fan and that their first game was Sonic Colours. Why didn't you make this easier to follow and why isn't there an actual story? This feels more like a displaced scene in the middle of a bigger story and I know that comic books want to hook readers in for the long haul but you need to do that by telling us an actual story with some context. The original Sonic no 1s of Archie and Fleetway handled this better. 

It also really sucks that Sonic has no foil to bounce off of to tell him that he really isn't that cool and that he needs to cool it. Literally all of the villagers and even Tails fawned over him with Tails being the only one somewhat critical of him. I mean that's a good sibling dynamic for the younger sibling to be more discerning while also loving their older brother but wow, that moment where he got emotional over events you haven't seen in this book? That's stuff you wait to put into a more heavy hitting story point. This issue didn't have much in the way of that going for it. Man, I sure am missing Sally, you guys. She'd add a lot more to this right now. Instead it's just "oh Sonic is so cool and so infallible, yeah." Yawn. And even then, she wouldn't even fix this lack of a story problem/muddled story problem(?). It's really confusing what impression they wanted to leave here but it's sloppy in a way I didn't expect. 

Oh and on the art note? Is Tracey being rushed on the art or is someone up the chain really scrutinizing the art and demanding everyone follow a house style? It really bugs me because even the layout of the shots isn't as artistically crafted as Yardley's previous work and this is the first issue of the new Sonic book. It should be leaving the audience with a good first impression. I get that we wanted to show basic action and that's cool, but the art looks a lot less expressive than Yardley's old work and the action isn't even hitting right with the character form and action layout also being too basic in detail. 

Overall. It doesn't feel like they're having fun making this book. That's a huge problem. 

What the hell happened here and how much control is Sega holding over this comic? The comic staff feels more like they're following beats without getting to stretch out creative muscles. 

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I don't really see how this issue would show that they are not having fun or whatever, and it bother me a bit. (I spoiler the bit that talk about what is in the issue)

Spoiler

Most of this issue wanted to reintroduce the character of Sonic and the relation between Sonic and Tails. I'm not saying that the problems you find aren't real, more that they might not be imputable of what you are imputing them to.

Treating it like a quarter of issue (because it's basically what they have done with their weekly stuff) might have been an error (or maybe they shouldn't have given the first issue if it was so important to get them one after the other), but saying that they are "Ian feel like he's actually kind of sick of dealing with Sonic" or "It doesn't feel like they're having fun making this book". Especially as Flynn is known to prefer preparing stuff with long term, and that some other people would seen him as having fun with the jokes and the flow of the story (as I've seen, personally).

 

About Mighty, Ray and the Holligan, I'm unhappy too. I would have really preferred if they had done them the "chaotix" treatment, making them simply exist in both continuity with a redesign in "Modern Sonic" continuity.

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