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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Ok, let me rephrase that.

"I'm against limiting what characters you're gonna use, by principle."

Okay. That's cool.

Clearly, I'm not. 

There's a lot of reasons as to why I don't feel this to be an issue for me. In my head, it's hard to stave off the idea that originally created characters could probably fill whatever role they could have provided and done so in a way that I might have found more interesting perhaps.  I'm one of those people that never got the hype for Mighty and Ray in the games and never got on board with their comic personalities either. I don't care about them and don't feel anything from their presence aside from "Go away so I can see who I want to see", and as a result I don't personally feel much is limited by them not being around. The idea that they could be written in a manner that would make me care is possible but it hasn't happened yet in any of the issues Ian has written when it comes to the two of them. It's tough admitting that because I'll bet there are people out there who feel the same about characters that I like... maybe. I'm not sure. The characters I like so rarely get to appear in anything so maybe not.

It's a very personal thing, certainly. I find more value in it being a Modern focused comic that utilizes what I'm familiar with from the modern games and branches off of that to create its own thing. There's a part of my brain that does feel as though including Classic stuff, or Freedom Fighters, or even AoSth stuff would kind of ruin that illusion a bit rather than make the book any richer.

I'm clearly extremely bias towards what I want is what I'm saying here. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah, I'm a bit of an alien here since, again, I'm perfectly fine with this book being all modern. It's the kind of stuff I grew up with and as such I'm pretty used to it. If anything, when I got into Archie, I was stepping deeply out of my comfort zone and had to make a lot of mental adjustments to accept some of what I was seeing. 

Admittedly, there definitely is a part of my brain that's considering the introduction of the more Classic elements to be something of a "Divine Classic Intervention". Where Modern Sonic can't stand on it's own and they need to throw in a bunch of stuff from the classics to make people like it. I know this is a comic and not a game so that's definitely not where the idea comes in but personal bias is a strong thing to try and ignore. It's a feeling I get despite knowing better but at least I'm aware of it.

I'm still trying my best to be understanding and sympathetic to all of you who are disappointed but at the same time, I'm really happy all of this is happening. I can't really sit here and lie about it. I've always wanted a continuous comic book story about the Modern universe and all the things I was familiar with about it. I didn't want the Freedom Fighters in it and there's a part of me that also didn't even want Mighty and Ray to show up, literally just because my view of that universe, as I was introduced to it, didn't have them around. At least not as characters Sonic and the others already knew. If they were to be reintroduced as people meeting Sonic and the others for the first time, I could see my brain accepting that a bit more as a similar situation to how the Chaotix came back in Heroes. 

Although, there's also the fact that I didn't really care for them as characters in general. Even though what I'm saying is true for the Hooligans, I liked the Hooligans a lot. Then again, they were villains and I tended to really love the Archie villains and didn't care much at all for a lot of the heroes unless they were characters I already liked from the games. And even then, I still complained a lot whenever they'd write Sonic to be too much of a jerk or when Tails was too perfect and bland...

My thoughts on the matter aren't that complicated I guess. It's just hard to talk about. I feel like I may be stepping on eggshells a bit admitting to really liking the decisions they've made here. Absolutely none of this has bothered me a bit. Not even a little tiny bit.

I do understand this viewpoint but I feel like you're not seeing the full picture here. 

Not every character of the series has to be used in all of the stories. In this perspective the core Sonic cast is still basically the cast we have had since Sonic Adventure 2 or so. However, what happens to the extra characters after their first appearances? They usually get shelved and not show up ever again even if there's still room for them to see some use. 

It's like when people tell me that Nack/Fang and Rouge are essentially the same characters. They're not. Rouge is a glamour driven spy who likes to invest in things that make her pretty and Nack/Fang is a bounty hunter in it for his own self gain. Two completely different roles yet Nack was locked in as a Classic Character and never saw any use again unless it was the comics. The comics were a safe haven for all of the material in Sonic the Hedgehog to see some use and that nothing would be forgotten. It was a good thing they had going on here. 

I can tell you that most every character has had a unique role and niche to fill but I also feel that there was a ton of forgetting the old material simply because "younger/modern fans couldn't get into it" yet at this very Town Hall a kid asked if Ray and Mighty were going to show up in more games than Mania Plus. This stuck out to me so much as the young fanbase being more than happy to accommodate the old characters that Sega had left to collect dust. There is room for them. Sega is blind to this and anyone asking to leave this material behind honestly sounds selfish to me. I'm not saying to not introduce new characters to fill in old roles, but I'm asking for people to give these characters a decent ending or new role at the very least. That's respectful. 

That's fine to admit you don't care for the characters. Some of us here do care however. Be a bit more respectful to that, please. 

Also, for @Marco9966 here's the roles I took liberty with while respecting the roots of each character. 

  • Sonic: our protagonist, the hothead with good intentions who lives a free lifestyle. 
  • Dr. Ivo "The Eggman" Robotnik: Brilliant scientist who is obsessed with theatrics but is still a child in terms of his interests and mannerisms. It's eccentric, okay?
    • Metal Sonic/Metallix: The Robot Sonic. Obsessed with Sonic in a fury of sounds that symbolize nothing. Once a loyal servant to Eggman, can be anywhere from slave to straight up going full renegade on a personal revenge to create a world in its own visage. Think Ultron but Sonic the Hedgehog shaped. 
    • The Badnik Army: Robotnik's Armada. Simple as that. 
    • Super Badniks: Badniks but Bosses. 
    • Egg Bosses/Cyberniks: Regular Sonic People who are loyal to Robotnik and have been weaponized to aide his cause. Shortfuse, Vermin, Thunderbolt, Clove, and Cassia were all very fun and varied takes on this idea that should really continue into the series. Sega's ready to use this idea if Infinite was any hint. 
  • Tails: the little adopted surrogate sibling who wants to live up to their dreams and Sonic's hopes for them who is wicked smart and invents
  • Knuckles: The Guardian of the Chaos Emeralds. He's both submerged and cut off from his own culture being the last of them alive (?) and is awkward and too literal with people
  • Amy: Sonic's fangirl who tries to keep that on the down low and isn't afraid to get real. Has a mystic side and trusts in the stars and tarot cards
  • Rouge: glam loving spy who is potentially selfish but cares to fulfill the mission and secure the safety of nations
  • Shadow: the grumpy hedgehog shaped bioweapon who looks for purpose and found one in protecting the world from The Eggman Empire. Is a hothead due to stress of dealing with both sides and making hard choices. Maybe has bits of Chaos' DNA in them due to Gerald Robotnik's fascination with the Angel Island legend. 
  • Freedom Fighters
    • Sally: One of many of Sonic's childhood friends who leads her own personal team to fight against the injustices of the world, teams up with Sonic when they have the same goal. Hacker genius that Tails admires like a mom from the early days of the Resistance.
    • Nicole: Transhumanist AI significant other of Sally's, great analyst and very self aware and assists in the team's strategies
    • Antoine: The militant fighter and skilled in ammo and its uses and is a very marked and honourable swordsman, loyal to Bonnie
    • Bunnie/Bonnie*:  Southern girl cyborg who has accepted herself for being part machine and is still sweet but will lay the beat down on those threatening her friends' safety
    • Rotor: The Engineer. He doesn't invent so much as he is good at pulling his weight and making sure the heavy stuff is taken care of. Kind of an anxious older guy in the team. 
  • Blaze: The Interdimensional queen who defends her world from threats inside and out who tries her best to be a good diplomat and do the right thing. A very cultured kitty~
  • Marine: A young girl who thinks she's Blaze's confidant
  • Silver: A Time Traveller from the far future who works with the scientist, Dr. Schlemmer, in keeping the Time Stream nice and concise. Very naive about how to help, but that plays to his favour. He's a huge history nerd and may ship people. 
  • The Chaotix
    • Vector: The loudmouth, showboating face of the detective agency who fancies himself a TV personality 
    • Espio: The calm kept ninja who's job is to hide in plain sight and keep eyes on cases 
    • Charmy: The even louder mouthed little kid who is way too excited to be in the work and tends to be a hindrance albeit a cute boy
  • Mighty: An old friend of Sonic's who Sonic helped out when the three were imprisoned on Robotnik's Island. Trying to make his way as a hero with his best friend, Ray. 
  • Ray: The Tails' to Mighty's Sonic. A mature kid who isn't good with inventing or machines but really enjoys the air. 
  • The Hooligans
    • Nack: the self interested, hard to win over Bounty Hunter who will backstab near about anyone
    • Bark: The Muscle. They keep to themselves and follow orders. May secretly be the heart of them. 
    • Bean: The way too gonzo and eccentric bomb expert who has repurposed The Eggman's Bomb Robots to fulfill his demolition man methods.
  • Babylon Rogues: a bunch of history nerds who may or may not be alien birds and partake and enjoy Extreme Sports 
  • IDW Sonic Friends:
    • Tangle: Sonic fan brought in to the universe, may or may not be also a transhumanist, and enjoys fighting the good fight for freedom. Loves to relax but enjoys the fight too much. 
    • Rough and Tumble: Asshole brothers. Huge bullies who had grew up in bad conditions and now bully others to feel good about themselves. 
    • ???: I wonder when we'll get to find out more about this new face. 
  • Fun Cameo Characters:
    • Nikki Parlouzer would be really fun but you know? As a nod to the series' roots, I'd really like us to rename him to Nikki Naka. 
    • Anton Veruca and his gang would be so much fun to see as just common bullies. Make them the nastiest greaser types who are overly excited to bully kids. In my headcanon they're the bullies that Sonic fought off when he first met Tails. 
    • I like the original Charmy from the Manga best. Can we get cameos of him? Or incorporate those into Charmy's design more? 
    • The original Sonic founders: Naka, Oshima, and Yasuhara. Fans should always get a smile from that. 
    • Segata Sanshiro had a brilliant cameo in Archie Sonic's Champions arc. Give us another cameo like that. 

And I think that covers a ton of the roles while leaving room for more but at the same time allowing for a lot of flex room. I left Chaos and Tikal out as they had an ending that worked and the idea for them coming back would be in a particularly heavy Chaos Emerald related story. That's 30 characters (not including the cameo characters) all with roles to fill in for stories they're needed for. Some of them being more supporting characters but supporting characters add life to your story. Minimalism is good, but sometimes you really want a story rich with characters who get the story rolling in interesting directions. You can choose a handful or many more to use in each story with room for more characters. 

I'm going to say one more thing about why we care about the old characters and why they still matter. It's for both familiarity and for letting the history of the Sonic series to take the series in new directions in the ways we can remix old characters. What has been wrong with the familiarity in recent years is more the using Green Hill and Classic Sonic as a crutch instead of as the history needed to evolve the series into new territory. I love Retro Sonic and Sonic Mania has been my jam from beginning to end because it is an evolution of the Sonic that I grew up on. It's been a shame that Modern Sonic has been in a stagnation period for a long while now. I'm not happy with seeing Modern Sonic fans unhappy and I don't think it's fair to you at all. The least they can do is actually try for you while bringing the series up to something new and timeless. 

The least they can do is not reinforce restrictions but give the artists here room to play and give us something fresh about this thing we like. 

 

*Bonnie is the same pun as Bunnie but it's just a nicer name I feel. 

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I'm not sure if "roles' and "short biography" are the same thing. Looking at your description of Mighty.

Still, the role system isn't as important as many people think Primary job of Amy, Knuckles or Silver is to help Sonic punch something, no matter the deepness of their backstories or personalities. Amy can be fangirl as much as she like, her main job is to hammer the baddies.

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Okay. That's cool.

Clearly, I'm not. 

There's a lot of reasons as to why I don't feel this to be an issue for me. In my head, it's hard to stave off the idea that originally created characters could probably fill whatever role they could have provided and done so in a way that I might have found more interesting perhaps.  I'm one of those people that never got the hype for Mighty and Ray in the games and never got on board with their comic personalities either. I don't care about them and don't feel anything from their presence aside from "Go away so I can see who I want to see", and as a result I don't personally feel much is limited by them not being around. The idea that they could be written in a manner that would make me care is possible but it hasn't happened yet in any of the issues Ian has written when it comes to the two of them. It's tough admitting that because I'll bet there are people out there who feel the same about characters that I like... maybe. I'm not sure. The characters I like so rarely get to appear in anything so maybe not.

It's a very personal thing, certainly. I find more value in it being a Modern focused comic that utilizes what I'm familiar with from the modern games and branches off of that to create its own thing. There's a part of my brain that does feel as though including Classic stuff, or Freedom Fighters, or even AoSth stuff would kind of ruin that illusion a bit rather than make the book any richer.

I'm clearly extremely bias towards what I want is what I'm saying here. 

 

In short, you see Mighty as a death weight, maybe not terrible character, but definitely inferior to many modern characters, Thus removing his has positive effect of giving more time to cooler guys.

Fair enough, I kinda feel similarly. I'm just aware that
1 it never hurts to have options and no character is completely useless
2 modern cast had been accused for 'being a dead weight' as well

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I don't think character age really comes into why Sonic Team have decided not to use them or put them in the modern era. Bear in mind that a lot of these decisions seem to have roots in what was decided with Sonic Adventure. If the decision not to use them happened during the development of Adventure, that would mean the characters had only been out the franchise for a couple of years, maybe even a matter of months if it was decided when the game started development way back in 1996.

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19 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

I do understand this viewpoint but I feel like you're not seeing the full picture here. 

Not every character of the series has to be used in all of the stories. In this perspective the core Sonic cast is still basically the cast we have had since Sonic Adventure 2 or so. However, what happens to the extra characters after their first appearances? They usually get shelved and not show up ever again even if there's still room for them to see some use. 

It's like when people tell me that Nack/Fang and Rouge are essentially the same characters. They're not. Rouge is a glamour driven spy who likes to invest in things that make her pretty and Nack/Fang is a bounty hunter in it for his own self gain. Two completely different roles yet Nack was locked in as a Classic Character and never saw any use again unless it was the comics. The comics were a safe haven for all of the material in Sonic the Hedgehog to see some use and that nothing would be forgotten. It was a good thing they had going on here. 

I can tell you that most every character has had a unique role and niche to fill but I also feel that there was a ton of forgetting the old material simply because "younger/modern fans couldn't get into it" yet at this very Town Hall a kid asked if Ray and Mighty were going to show up in more games than Mania Plus. This stuck out to me so much as the young fanbase being more than happy to accommodate the old characters that Sega had left to collect dust. There is room for them. Sega is blind to this and anyone asking to leave this material behind honestly sounds selfish to me. I'm not saying to not introduce new characters to fill in old roles, but I'm asking for people to give these characters a decent ending or new role at the very least. That's respectful. 

That's fine to admit you don't care for the characters. Some of us here do care however. Be a bit more respectful to that, please. 

Also, for @Marco9966 here's the roles I took liberty with while respecting the roots of each character. 

  • Sonic: our protagonist, the hothead with good intentions who lives a free lifestyle. 
  • Dr. Ivo "The Eggman" Robotnik: Brilliant scientist who is obsessed with theatrics but is still a child in terms of his interests and mannerisms. It's eccentric, okay?
    • Metal Sonic/Metallix: The Robot Sonic. Obsessed with Sonic in a fury of sounds that symbolize nothing. Once a loyal servant to Eggman, can be anywhere from slave to straight up going full renegade on a personal revenge to create a world in its own visage. Think Ultron but Sonic the Hedgehog shaped. 
    • The Badnik Army: Robotnik's Armada. Simple as that. 
    • Super Badniks: Badniks but Bosses. 
    • Egg Bosses/Cyberniks: Regular Sonic People who are loyal to Robotnik and have been weaponized to aide his cause. Shortfuse, Vermin, Thunderbolt, Clove, and Cassia were all very fun and varied takes on this idea that should really continue into the series. Sega's ready to use this idea if Infinite was any hint. 
  • Tails: the little adopted surrogate sibling who wants to live up to their dreams and Sonic's hopes for them who is wicked smart and invents
  • Knuckles: The Guardian of the Chaos Emeralds. He's both submerged and cut off from his own culture being the last of them alive (?) and is awkward and too literal with people
  • Amy: Sonic's fangirl who tries to keep that on the down low and isn't afraid to get real. Has a mystic side and trusts in the stars and tarot cards
  • Rouge: glam loving spy who is potentially selfish but cares to fulfill the mission and secure the safety of nations
  • Shadow: the grumpy hedgehog shaped bioweapon who looks for purpose and found one in protecting the world from The Eggman Empire. Is a hothead due to stress of dealing with both sides and making hard choices. Maybe has bits of Chaos' DNA in them due to Gerald Robotnik's fascination with the Angel Island legend. 
  • Freedom Fighters
    • Sally: One of many of Sonic's childhood friends who leads her own personal team to fight against the injustices of the world, teams up with Sonic when they have the same goal. Hacker genius that Tails admires like a mom from the early days of the Resistance.
    • Nicole: Transhumanist AI significant other of Sally's, great analyst and very self aware and assists in the team's strategies
    • Antoine: The militant fighter and skilled in ammo and its uses and is a very marked and honourable swordsman, loyal to Bonnie
    • Bunnie/Bonnie*:  Southern girl cyborg who has accepted herself for being part machine and is still sweet but will lay the beat down on those threatening her friends' safety
    • Rotor: The Engineer. He doesn't invent so much as he is good at pulling his weight and making sure the heavy stuff is taken care of. Kind of an anxious older guy in the team. 
  • Blaze: The Interdimensional queen who defends her world from threats inside and out who tries her best to be a good diplomat and do the right thing. A very cultured kitty~
  • Marine: A young girl who thinks she's Blaze's confidant
  • Silver: A Time Traveller from the far future who works with the scientist, Dr. Schlemmer, in keeping the Time Stream nice and concise. Very naive about how to help, but that plays to his favour. He's a huge history nerd and may ship people. 
  • The Chaotix
    • Vector: The loudmouth, showboating face of the detective agency who fancies himself a TV personality 
    • Espio: The calm kept ninja who's job is to hide in plain sight and keep eyes on cases 
    • Charmy: The even louder mouthed little kid who is way too excited to be in the work and tends to be a hindrance albeit a cute boy
  • Mighty: An old friend of Sonic's who Sonic helped out when the three were imprisoned on Robotnik's Island. Trying to make his way as a hero with his best friend, Ray. 
  • Ray: The Tails' to Mighty's Sonic. A mature kid who isn't good with inventing or machines but really enjoys the air. 
  • The Hooligans
    • Nack: the self interested, hard to win over Bounty Hunter who will backstab near about anyone
    • Bark: The Muscle. They keep to themselves and follow orders. May secretly be the heart of them. 
    • Bean: The way too gonzo and eccentric bomb expert who has repurposed The Eggman's Bomb Robots to fulfill his demolition man methods.
  • Babylon Rogues: a bunch of history nerds who may or may not be alien birds and partake and enjoy Extreme Sports 
  • IDW Sonic Friends:
    • Tangle: Sonic fan brought in to the universe, may or may not be also a transhumanist, and enjoys fighting the good fight for freedom. Loves to relax but enjoys the fight too much. 
    • Rough and Tumble: Asshole brothers. Huge bullies who had grew up in bad conditions and now bully others to feel good about themselves. 
    • ???: I wonder when we'll get to find out more about this new face. 
  • Fun Cameo Characters:
    • Nikki Parlouzer would be really fun but you know? As a nod to the series' roots, I'd really like us to rename him to Nikki Naka. 
    • Anton Veruca and his gang would be so much fun to see as just common bullies. Make them the nastiest greaser types who are overly excited to bully kids. In my headcanon they're the bullies that Sonic fought off when he first met Tails. 
    • I like the original Charmy from the Manga best. Can we get cameos of him? Or incorporate those into Charmy's design more? 
    • The original Sonic founders: Naka, Oshima, and Yasuhara. Fans should always get a smile from that. 
    • Segata Sanshiro had a brilliant cameo in Archie Sonic's Champions arc. Give us another cameo like that. 

And I think that covers a ton of the roles while leaving room for more but at the same time allowing for a lot of flex room. I left Chaos and Tikal out as they had an ending that worked and the idea for them coming back would be in a particularly heavy Chaos Emerald related story. That's 30 characters (not including the cameo characters) all with roles to fill in for stories they're needed for. Some of them being more supporting characters but supporting characters add life to your story. Minimalism is good, but sometimes you really want a story rich with characters who get the story rolling in interesting directions. You can choose a handful or many more to use in each story with room for more characters. 

I'm going to say one more thing about why we care about the old characters and why they still matter. It's for both familiarity and for letting the history of the Sonic series to take the series in new directions in the ways we can remix old characters. What has been wrong with the familiarity in recent years is more the using Green Hill and Classic Sonic as a crutch instead of as the history needed to evolve the series into new territory. I love Retro Sonic and Sonic Mania has been my jam from beginning to end because it is an evolution of the Sonic that I grew up on. It's been a shame that Modern Sonic has been in a stagnation period for a long while now. I'm not happy with seeing Modern Sonic fans unhappy and I don't think it's fair to you at all. The least they can do is actually try for you while bringing the series up to something new and timeless. 

The least they can do is not reinforce restrictions but give the artists here room to play and give us something fresh about this thing we like. 

 

*Bonnie is the same pun as Bunnie but it's just a nicer name I feel. 

Shadow is not grumpy nor a hothead(Ian ruined him in archie by making him a grumpy emo teen crybaby), Shadow shows mean disposition and near cold hearted violent agression. But he's a calm before the storm tranquil fury type of menace, he's suppose to be the opposite of Sonic, which being hotheaded is not one of his contrasts. Shadow should always be a cooler cool than even Sonic is, very silent and passive agressive, barely emotes and shows exasperation outside of rare instances, alongside his dark and cynical outlook he very wised and realistic about problems.  Leave the angry grumpyness and hostile bouts of gruffness to Knux.

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4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

...Am I the only one who was expecting a crash?

Nah, it's Kimi Räikkönen we're talking about here, like he'd talk more than what he's capable of. :D

___

Kinda sad thing that Mighty and Ray are getting a Classic-banning-from-modern-thing, but then again, I dunno. Let us see what IDW wants to show us as their own thing.

That part about creative staff possibly not enjoying themselves... I hope the artwork's just because of a strict deadline, those can do wonders to one's style after all.

And well, it'd be awesome to see the FF once more, but I dunno, some in here are really optimistic, some are really pessimistic. I suppose I'll go the "Forever Young" route. I really don't want to get burned again, and I think I'll try to find enjoyment out of good old Archie Sonic. Until I've read it ~1000 times over and over and start to come up with my own closure and then I'm done with the whole franchise and Sega'll never see my cash in any form whatsoever before some other time/thing comes up.

You'll see I'm right some other time.

I'm fearing there'll be no sign of life from the FF's though.

Is there any of them out there trying to get through into this book?

My eyes are so cloudy I can't see...

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Okay, maybe we'd need to look at his characterization then through his storied game appearances. Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle (I know it's canon status is murky but I'm working with it), Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic '06, and Sonic Forces. That's the six major appearances. 

Sonic Adventure 2 had him as a lost soul who was ate up with the revenge that Gerald wanted to enact on the Earth for G.U.N.'s corrupt dealings with him before Amy tapped into his good memories with Maria. Through the game he mocks Sonic and is more than willing to get into a fight with this "faker". Sonic Heroes retconned his death due to his popularity and he came back the same character but focusing the revenge onto Gerald's grandson this time and is still more than happy to fight Sonic and smiles at the opportunity of it. Still very much a hot headed arrogant mess. He cools off in Sonic Battle but is still way too fight happy with Sonic. Then he does whatever you want him to in Shadow the Hedgehog before his final major appearance until Sonic Forces in Sonic '06. There he goes full GUN agent (which is completely against his character previously even in a character development sense) and is more played as a huge saviour of the universe figure playing government agent which is all kinds of weird but is still the more interesting and involved part of that game. 

Then there's the lull where he appears only as cameos at best or as Lancelot in Black Knight as full role but not as being quite himself. 

He's still in the whole kind of G.U.N. agent but not really (???) role in Sonic Forces where more than ever he's a grumpy, arrogant, hot headed one note asshole. 

Sorry, it's not Ian doing that to Shadow. 

It's Sega. 

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3 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

FFs are mainly popular from Archie (even more than SaTAM), they have a slight chance of getting into IDW.

But, why would we want them?? I'm not against them, but each character has a specific role!

Sonic=Hero

Tails=Sidekick,mech

Knuckles=hothead,guardian, foil to Sonic

Amy=has a crush on Sonic

...

What roles do Antoine or Rotor fill?

...whatever role the writer finds most comfortable? I dunno, aren't there other heroes than just the classic four already? I dunno, in somewhere there was this cool idea of them coming from another dimension or planet or whatevs thus creating even a concept in which the possibility of them taking too much of the panel time would decrease a lot. And I think there're many other ideas as well.

___

About what characters should be included and what not, well, I'm going to be a bit crazy in here and admit few things.

1) I'm really bad at finding characters inferior. Even if someone's not my favourite, they have a part to play and that's enough for me to get interested enough not to conside them as a dead weight. So I pretty much enjoy ~99% of the characters in some way or other, were they likeable for me or not, and that's the most important thing to me.

2) I'm prolly thinking too much about other's feelings for my own good when it comes to the stuff like this. I just keep thinking about that that character might mean a world to someone else and I have no heart to wish them away for that reason alone.

3) I usually get interested to see how some characters can add to the story. Especially in similar cases like this, where you have an idea about the characters and the story's still new.

3 hours ago, antyep said:

Maybe like a team rival for said main four. That way, Rotor can be Sally’s mech and Antoine can be her hopeless love interest.

... why did I start picturing a One Piece situation in here? :huh:

Gee I love that manga way too much. :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

FFs are mainly popular from Archie (even more than SaTAM), they have a slight chance of getting into IDW.

But, why would we want them?? I'm not against them, but each character has a specific role!

Sonic=Hero

Tails=Sidekick,mech

Knuckles=hothead,guardian, foil to Sonic

Amy=has a crush on Sonic

...

What roles do Antoine or Rotor fill?

Eh, I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. A niche can be created for those characters where they are relevant to the story yet don't take attention away from the main focus. As others have said, Antoine, Bunnie, and Rotot could be apart of Sally's little team where they join forces with Sonic when the time calls for it. 

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1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow is not grumpy nor a hothead(Ian ruined him in archie by making him a grumpy emo teen crybaby), Shadow shows mean disposition and near cold hearted violent agression. But he's a calm before the storm tranquil fury type of menace, he's suppose to be the opposite of Sonic, which being hotheaded is not one of his contrasts. Shadow should always be a cooler cool than even Sonic is, very silent and passive agressive, barely emotes and shows exasperation outside of rare instances, alongside his dark and cynical outlook he very wised and realistic about problems.  Leave the angry grumpyness and hostile bouts of gruffness to Knux.

Ian didn't ruin him

The reboot shadow is one of the best shadows, he didn't even really make him emo. 

Unless you talking about pre-reboot. Then everyone is terrible in the pre-reboot. You think tails is bad now.... woo boy. We can have a discussion about " nice guy " tails

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5 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

I do understand this viewpoint but I feel like you're not seeing the full picture here. 

Not every character of the series has to be used in all of the stories. In this perspective the core Sonic cast is still basically the cast we have had since Sonic Adventure 2 or so. However, what happens to the extra characters after their first appearances? They usually get shelved and not show up ever again even if there's still room for them to see some use. 

It's like when people tell me that Nack/Fang and Rouge are essentially the same characters. They're not. Rouge is a glamour driven spy who likes to invest in things that make her pretty and Nack/Fang is a bounty hunter in it for his own self gain. Two completely different roles yet Nack was locked in as a Classic Character and never saw any use again unless it was the comics. The comics were a safe haven for all of the material in Sonic the Hedgehog to see some use and that nothing would be forgotten. It was a good thing they had going on here. 

I can tell you that most every character has had a unique role and niche to fill but I also feel that there was a ton of forgetting the old material simply because "younger/modern fans couldn't get into it" yet at this very Town Hall a kid asked if Ray and Mighty were going to show up in more games than Mania Plus. This stuck out to me so much as the young fanbase being more than happy to accommodate the old characters that Sega had left to collect dust. There is room for them. Sega is blind to this and anyone asking to leave this material behind honestly sounds selfish to me. I'm not saying to not introduce new characters to fill in old roles, but I'm asking for people to give these characters a decent ending or new role at the very least. That's respectful. 

That's fine to admit you don't care for the characters. Some of us here do care however. Be a bit more respectful to that, please. 

What? Where in that was I being disrespectful? I've been nothing but respectful to everyone here throughout the entirety of this thread. I even made mention that I was hesitant to respond because I didn't want to step on anybody's toes because I was worried that simply sharing my opinion on the matter would be seen as a bit off. However, I decided to anyway because I realized that it wasn't a matter of disrespect just explaining that I personally am in a position where this is all okay for me.

This bit at the end where you get into full on lecture mode is incredibly unnecessary. 

I literally said "I'm still trying to be understanding and sympathetic to all of you" in that post. There's no way in hell anyone could have seriously read that and found it disrespectful.

As for the rest of your post, the post you're responding to doesn't ignore or question the "bigger picture" because that's not what that particular post was about. I was just talking about why I personally am not disappointed by the decision making here.

Now what's my personal take on the comics being a safe haven for all the extra stuff? It was nice. I could see the appeal of it. Looking at it now, though, it's easy for me to understand the new take and I'm excited for the focus to just be on the things I cared the most about. I also explained a bit more about how the personal bias I have does kind of lend itself towards making it harder for me to fully ignore the fact that some of the Classic stuff or the stuff from the TV shows jumping in would kind of wreck the illusion I had for what I was liking about this new direction. It's certainly not a deal breaker but I can't sit here and lie about that and say I'd feel the same way regardless if they were in or not. It's just a tick in my brain that's wired towards preferring some things a certain way and all I did was share that with you guys.

I never once insinuated that you guys couldn't care for the characters. I went out of my way to ensure that there was no way I could have possibly let on that you guys were wrong for doing so. So that leads me to believe that literally just talking about me preferring it this way was the thing that somehow disrespected you. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. 

2 hours ago, Sean said:

I don't see how Mighty and Ray or the FFs showing up in a modern comic "ruins the illusion of being based off modern Sonic" when Sega has been accomplishing that themselves with each new game and bits of canon that have come out since 2013.

Yeah, that's pissed me off quite a lot as well. I'm not a fan of that either so in my mind it's just a different, though more extreme, example. Still, once again, I'm choosing to be honest with myself here. I can't really say that I don't currently feel that way. I don't even really have an objective reason as to why that'd be the case. It's just how I feel. I apologize if saying so offends you guys.

3 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I have to say that oftentimes when I hear a character considered “dead weight”, it seems to mean more often than not “a character I don’t want to see again.”

Sure one can’t think of something for a character, I know I couldn’t for Big. But that doesn’t mean others can’t show you otherwise.

I never said I considered him dead weight. It really is just that I don't like him and don't really care if I see him again.

I'm trying my hardest to be as careful with my words here as I can because, like I said before, admitting all of this feels like I'm walking on egg-shells.

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14 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I like how at the end of the IDW comic it mentions Amy's love in a highlight and not her hammer looking less likely that she is all about her hammer. 

 

Well, her love for Sonic has ALWAYS been there. It's just been less extreme than Heroes. Which is how Ian and the vast majority of us prefer it.

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@Dr. Detective Mike It was more that your post beforehand for what respect you lent us, still read as dismissive of what some of us wanted in the book and for the series. The eggshells start cracking when you told us that you couldn't lie about being happy to see that fan favourite characters like the FFs and Mighty and Ray wouldn't be showing up. I mean okay, that's your opinion but it's kind of a really shitty thing to say. It would be like me taking glee out of never seeing Shadow the Hedgehog ever again and telling Modern Fans that I'm happy even if they aren't. You know? It's fine to prefer some characters over others. I don't get some comic book readers of other brands getting all gate keeping on the old characters when the comic books want to do something new when they get to keep the old characters still in some capacity and they even get an ending for those characters. 

The characters Sonic fans miss ended up just simply disappearing with no proper ending. I would have loved to get issue 292 of Archie so I could see all of the FFs on their own path however bittersweet an ending that would be. At least there'd be an ending and closure. 

We all have baggage to the characters we like and relate to and we all have our personal biases. With the biases said, sometimes it's best to be more quiet about our own biases or be willing to respectfully disagree. Which I'm going to offer to you. I disagree respectfully, andI see that you want the more modern side of things. That's fine, but I prefer an all around approach with a lot of new stuff. That and Sega has a bad history of disrespecting/misusing the history of this series to the point of stagnation and I'm honestly sick of it so there's that baggage to deal with too. 

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Just now, PublicEnemy1 said:

Well, her love for Sonic has ALWAYS been there. It's just been less extreme than Heroes. Which is how Ian and the vast majority of us prefer it.

Being there and acting upon it are different things and the vast majority isn't very vast, at most the ones I've seen just don't want to see nary hide nor hair of her flirting with Sonic saying the best Amy is from Boom as she hides it from view 90% of the time there.

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So for more clarification, because somehow, I'm getting the sense that people seem to believe that my position is that I want them gone because "there's no role they can fill" or that they're "dead weight" and I assure you that's not the issue. As someone whose a huge fan of the process of storytelling and the kind that can take an incredibly large cast of characters and utilize them to their fullest despite how big or small a role they may have, I would never insinuate that a character on their own could never have something worthwhile to contribute and have that be the reason for their exclusion. I never even really said that when it came to Mighty. The position I was more going for was one that only really stems from this unique situation where the characters we're including come from several continuities rather then being created as tools for this specific story.

The reason I made mention of the fact that I could see what Mighty and Ray have to contribute easily going towards some other newly created character is because from my own personal standpoint, what they had to offer based on what I've read from these comics wasn't anything special on its own. That's not to say they couldn't be included and given something remarkable to work with. @Conquering Storm's Servant's example with Big is a good example of that. It's extremely possible that one could show you how it'd be able to manage itself within the narrative. I wasn't denying that.

I was really just going out of my way to explain why it didn't matter to me when it came specifically to them because I'm not in a position where that's happened for Mighty and Ray in my eyes and I don't believe Ian has anything in the cards that would convince me he's going to write them differently enough to allow me to care. As a result, I end up not really seeing it as a personal big deal that they're not in. Everything that's been done with them before in the book was something I never could get behind and as a result, whenever I saw them, I didn't really have a reaction different from wishing they were gone so I could see the others do their thing. Again, though, I also recognize that it's very possible for this to be the case for other people when it comes to the characters I care about. It's admittedly a lot harder to see since I don't think the Chaotix or Omega are as popular as characters like Blaze and Shadow but it's very possible that when they show up, someone is going to think they're stealing screentime from someone more worthy of it.

It's a bit of a hard thing to explain because I'm also not someone whose come across situations where I've outright hated characters or wanted them to disappear for the sake of my own experience. It's only really been a thought I've had concerning this comic and even then, despite exerting the fact that I do prefer the book be this way, it's not as though I hated the Archie Comics the way they were. I still purchased them and collected them. I wasn't a fan of the set-up and it had a lot of things about it that shifted the perception of what I would have personally wanted from a Sonic comic book, sure, but what was good about them was good enough to remain invested in them.

I'm just expressing why my position is, now 100% alien from the rest of you guys. It was a hunch before but it's clear now. I'm a total outlier here, and I'm completely fine with that. I'm not trying to take the feelings you have away from the rest of the cast by admitting to and explaining what I can about why I'm happy that the book is the way it is. 

Does this clarify things a bit more or is there something else I need to explain? I'll be happy to do it. 

1 hour ago, LongcrierCat said:

@Dr. Detective Mike It was more that your post beforehand for what respect you lent us, still read as dismissive of what some of us wanted in the book and for the series. The eggshells start cracking when you told us that you couldn't lie about being happy to see that fan favourite characters like the FFs and Mighty and Ray wouldn't be showing up. I mean okay, that's your opinion but it's kind of a really shitty thing to say. It would be like me taking glee out of never seeing Shadow the Hedgehog ever again and telling Modern Fans that I'm happy even if they aren't. You know?

I don't agree. The reason I didn't word it the way you have it worded here in the post is because I was talking more about being happy with the direction of the comic. It's not so much that I'm happy you guys aren't getting those characters anymore. I'm happy because I'm getting the Sonic comic I've always wanted. I addressed your concerns still, however, because I didn't want to seem disrespectful and thus tried to go into why my position was the way it was a bit more. This is despite the fact that I've actually explained this in various ways before. I don't take any glee in seeing people upset. I've stated that before as well, though I realistically don't expect people to comb through this thread and find all the words of sympathy I've tried to lay out for you all or retain the full knowledge behind what I've stated.

However, I can't agree that simply stating that I'm happy with the direction of the book is the same as making a direct statement towards the fans of the people who wanted it a different way. There's a difference between saying "I'm happy this is happening" and "I'm happy you're not getting what you want anymore". I suppose I should expect people to take it that way though since we're still in the early stages of what's going down. A lot of people are still riled up and unhappy that the Archie Comics don't exist anymore and are putting a lot of the hopes for what they accomplished on this comic as it's trying to do it's own thing. I get that.

However, I felt the need to express a position that was in full support of their decision making and I went ahead with it. I tried my best to be careful not to step on anyone's toes but if saying I'm happy about it IS the thing that's shitty well I'm sorry. That's literally just saying that my having a different opinion about these concepts and what should be done with them is a shitty thing. I shouldn't keep myself from expressing it just because there's people who feel differently.

1 hour ago, LongcrierCat said:

 

We all have baggage to the characters we like and relate to and we all have our personal biases. With the biases said, sometimes it's best to be more quiet about our own biases or be willing to respectfully disagree. Which I'm going to offer to you. I disagree respectfully, andI see that you want the more modern side of things. That's fine, but I prefer an all around approach with a lot of new stuff. That and Sega has a bad history of disrespecting/misusing the history of this series to the point of stagnation and I'm honestly sick of it so there's that baggage to deal with too. 

That's fine. I was never in a position where I considered this to be some sort of argument. I just wanted to express how happy I was with the book's current direction. If they decide to include those characters in again, I'll probably also say something like "I'm disappointed but I'm happy for you guys" like I always have and will. I've never had a problem, respectfully disagreeing with someone. It's just that I've come to realize that staying quiet about what you feel isn't a fair thing to do for yourself if you have something you want to express. Opposition isn't something I should be steering clear of. It happens to literally anyone who poses an unpopular opinion. Both parties are facing some sort of push back as a result of sharing opposing viewpoints after all.

Plus, it helps being able to recognize that this is still clearly a personal bias situation. I'm not making some sort of objective statement.

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4 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I have to say that oftentimes when I hear a character considered “dead weight”, it seems to mean more often than not “a character I don’t want to see again.”

Sure one can’t think of something for a character, I know I couldn’t for Big. But that doesn’t mean others can’t show you otherwise.

Agreed. A niche can be created for many characters, however, one problem is the altering of characteristics to fit that niche.

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At the risk of me getting yelled at for this, but it'll ruin my whole day if I don't say it now, in the morning (yes my concious mind works like cow's stomachs, it ruminates small things all day long and I can't concentrate on anything then); :rolleyes:

I, for can I only speak for myself, was talking in a more abstract level than pointing my finger at @Dr. Detective Mike, there would really be no reason for that since from my point of view they've been about as respectful about the matter as a human being can be. While I myself don't recognise that problem in myself it doesn't mean I wouldn't see where they're coming from, at least I hope so.

Everybody has the rights to their own opinions and also rights to express them as long as it's done as respectfully as possible I think.

I think there's a point of not wanting to include some character, at least if you feel like they wouldn't bring anything new to the table, again, speaking on an abstract level in this here sentence.

I wouldn't have this problem in the first place if Archie Sonic would've had a real closure and a more respectful cancellation process towards the public. -_-

Do I need to say I'm one of those guys who consider respect something you need to usually earn if you want it more than just the average quantity anyone gets?

Okay. Now I've had my piece about this. Whatevs, I do enjoy freelly roaming discussions more than strictly peer-steered ones anyway... But then again, sometimes there is a need for mods so whatevs...

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