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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

  Last thing i'll say is that if SEGA does make IDW put out a neutered book it won't last nearly as long as the Archie series did.  Sure like with any new comic the first 4-8 issues could do pretty well, but after that around issue 12 or so you would probably see at least an 80% drop in readers compared to whatever the first issue ended up selling.

 

And if the book sales poorly IDW would probably can any ongoings and just do what they are doing with Skylanders now which is basically just quarterly one-shots and the occassional 3 or 4-issue mini-series until the liscense expires.

 

 Its like how the BBC would'nt allow IDW to use The Daleks or Cybermen during the latter years of their Doctor who comics. (It was probably a heck of a chore to convince the BBC to even let them use the Cybermen in the Star Trek:TNG crossover.)  I can see why IDW eventually got fed up and just gave up on the liscense and let The BBC hand it over to Titan instead.  Not to mention it probably it wasn't a cheap liscense in the first place.

 

  Anywho back on topic.  If the more doom & gloom predictions do come to pass odds are the book won't last more then a couple years tops before they just put it in the same boat as other licenses they consider failures.

 

 

@doctorbenMD is right; it's not fair to say that the new comic will fail because the FFs won't be in it.

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Its not just the FF but older game characters and an extended supporting cast in general I worry about the new book lacking.

 

 The modern game version of Sonic is so bland and boring and most of the other game characters haven't gotten much development or shown up at all in years!   Amy & Tails are probably the only characters in the main cast of the modern games that have any semblence of a personality left.

Eggman and his cronies Orebot & cubot are really the only characters that seem to be allowed to have a personality in the "main line"

 

If the comic is modern mainline characters only SEGA is still going to have to compromise with IDW and actually allow the characters to actually have a personallity & character growth.  And hopefully allow extended game cast like Blaze, Silver, Rouge, Cream,Cheese, Marine, Omega, The Babylon Rouges etc to show up.

 

Otherwise I hope they are allowed to do a Sonic Boom comic as well so there will be at least something entertaining to read.

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I've gotta be honest, I really don't see those elements being gone as that big of an issue in terms of whether or not the book will sell. There's plenty of Sonic media out there with their own way of handling and doing things that lack the nuance of putting everything and the Kitchen sink into their continuity. The way Archie did it was commendable and certainly unique but I don't think it was the ultimate deciding factor in whether or not the book would sell.

Just make a book using the Sonic characters, have good art, have some really well-written stories, promote it well, and the rest should take care of itself. 

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21 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Its not just the FF but older game characters and an extended supporting cast in general I worry about the new book lacking.

 

 The modern game version of Sonic is so bland and boring and most of the other game characters haven't gotten much development or shown up at all in years!   Amy & Tails are probably the only characters in the main cast of the modern games that have any semblence of a personality left.

Eggman and his cronies Orebot & cubot are really the only characters that seem to be allowed to have a personality in the "main line"

 

If the comic is modern mainline characters only SEGA is still going to have to compromise with IDW and actually allow the characters to actually have a personallity & character growth.  And hopefully allow extended game cast like Blaze, Silver, Rouge, Cream,Cheese, Marine, Omega, The Babylon Rouges etc to show up.

 

Otherwise I hope they are allowed to do a Sonic Boom comic as well so there will be at least something entertaining to read.

Maybe the characters aren't the problem, maybe it's the writers.

And that might be why we like Ian Flynn.

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53 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

Maybe the characters aren't the problem, maybe it's the writers.

And that might be why we like Ian Flynn.

 I'll drink to that.  Hog willing we can get Flynn, Evan & Tracy back.  Or some of the compitent modern all-ages writers  like Kate Leth (Adventure Time), Kelly Thompson(JEM) Katie Cook(Gronk,MLP)Jeremey Whitley(Princeless), Noelle Stevenson (Lumberjanes) etc. On the book.

 

Also would love to have John Gray doing art on the book again if he's willing.  He's helped on the IDW Disney books so its not impossible.

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3 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Also trying to compare amy not being in the games is silly compared to the ff and saying its the personality that attracts you to them is just nonsense to some. I liked amy in part thanks to the sonic ending. I had no idea who she was ( i mean the sonic cd ending) but yet liked her from that point on. Hell without the books id still like her and her inclusion in the adventure games onward.

I guess you just proved my point, partially, at least.

You'd certainly get upset if I made a detailed post telling how useless Amy is and how she should be erased from the games. That's why I'm trying to say.

 

 

And, before anybody gets any conclusion, no, I have nothing against Amy, only picked a random character to make a point.

 

Edit for avoiding double-posting: Keeping Flynn might also not be a smart move from IDW, his presence as a main head writer might cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book. And it's fair to remember that the sales in the main book of Archie Sonic were reaching their lowest numbers ever.

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2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

The sonic mega drive books use what? the game cast ,and it was literally one of the best things they had put out in years. No ff needed

*just fixed up grammer*

Arguable. 

The first Megadrive sold very well on release, but the later one sold less than either the main comic or even Universe. You could make the case that Spark of Life, and Eggman's Dozen were also some of the best things they put out, and one had an FF as the central character and the other one had non-game characters star alongside Eggman. And that was when sales were in decline for the Sonic comics in general, including Mega Drive.

That's not saying that a book without the FF's will fail, but rather that it's neither a guarantee that it'll be thay hot either in the long run.

All in all, a Sonic comic will sell regardless of whether or not the FF are in it, but considering the devoted fandom these characters have that doesn't make it any less unfair to neglect them, even considering that, yes Sega owns them and the liscense and can do what they want, but that doesn't make the critique on the thought any less valid. 

Quote

Edit for avoiding double-posting: Keeping Flynn might also not be a smart move from IDW, his presence as a main head writer might cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book. And it's fair to remember that the sales in the main book of Archie Sonic were reaching their lowest numbers ever.

How will his presence cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book? That makes no damn sense given this would be a whole new direction based on what was stated. Especially considering even pre-reboot fans know that everything that led to the first reboot and this whole mess was out of his control in the beginning, and they're still out of luck over whatever issues they have on the new book whether or not Flynn's behind it.

This sounds like a personal grudge of yours to me. Never mind that post-reboot fans will be pissed for him not being around if you want to play that, so you're really putting your claim in a bizzare limbo here.

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16 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

How will his presence cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book? That makes no damn sense given this would be a whole new direction based on what was stated. Especially considering even pre-reboot fans know that everything that led to the first reboot and this whole mess was out of his control in the beginning, and they're still out of luck over whatever issues they have on the new book whether or not Flynn's behind it.

This sounds like a personal grudge of yours to me. Never mind that post-reboot fans will be pissed for him not being around if you want to play that, so you're really putting your claim in a bizzare limbo here.

Maybe you're right, but I've seen some people who did claim that position. A brand-new main writer would give some air of mystery, so, I imagine that everyone would at least pick one issue to see it closer before making any claims on if the new book is "worth it" or not.

It also doesn't help how desperate his fans are sending mails and doing campaigns begging for him. I'm probably getting a bit salty more because of that situation.

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1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

The sonic mega drive books use what? the game cast ,and it was literally one of the best things they had put out in years. No ff needed

*just fixed up grammer*

as much as i like mega drive for what it was, it still paled in comparision to the main book or universe, it's a good celebratory thing and that's it. If that's what they are basing a new long-running series, yeah...  it was way too simple (maybe because it was made as a three-parter and that's it). if they just go: hey, stop eggman here in this four parter story, then again and again and again &knuckles, it's not the kind of structure i am expecting from this new comic, and if it turns out to be this, well, maybe i'll pick up a comic, once in a while.

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1 hour ago, Korke said:

You'd certainly get upset if I made a detailed post telling how useless Amy is and how she should be erased from the games. That's why I'm trying to say.

If there was a detailed post of how my favorite character is s**t and should be eliminated from existence, my first reaction would be amusement and  surprise that someone had that much dedication to write it. I will be a little upset because I am a  human being, but as an adult I would just say "ok" and move on. It's just someone's opinion after all. It's not like if I didn't disagree and argue back the character will be confirmed officially useless (or officially erased from games, but in Amy's case she's already half-erased with the other friends so eeeh).

But if they said the next game is/would be a failure and not worth playing if Amy appears, then I would disagree because that is more of an assumption to me: something THEY believe to be fact when it's not. I would say "You haven't played the game yet, you haven't seen the story and graphic fully, but the game sucks because of one character?" If the game did come out, and they played or saw it, then said the game wasn't worth playing because Amy appeared, then I would take that as opinion and say "ok".

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2 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

The first Megadrive sold very well on release, but the later one sold less than either the main comic or even Universe.

We don't know that. Seriously, all people based that off was the direct sales even though it was stressed multiple times that the Mega Drive arc was primarily not direct sales-related even moreso than the regular comics. It's probably a bit lower than the first Mega Drive, but we don't know how much lower. Probably better than most regular arcs still. 

 

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6 hours ago, Korke said:

Edit for avoiding double-posting: Keeping Flynn might also not be a smart move from IDW, his presence as a main head writer might cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book. And it's fair to remember that the sales in the main book of Archie Sonic were reaching their lowest numbers ever.

But pre-reboot fans like Flynn a lot. Yes there is some angry at him still but everyone knows it wasn't his fault that SEGA had to reboot the comics. Most people only really started to get invested in the Sonic comics pre-reboot when Flynn got on board too. His stories, his characters, his characterization. He wasn't the only good writer at Archie yes but he came in a era that we call the Dark Ages for a reason, he was a very welcome and fresh take on the book at that time. Whatever Non-Flynn Archie fan like Bollers fans or Penders fans or even way back Cesare and Gallagher fans they left long, long ago. 

Also you've said so before that you don't want Flynn back because you think he has an "agenda" with gay relationships and honestly I'm not trying to pick  fight or start something with you but there is nothing wrong with that. And it's not an "agenda" anywa. Why is it everytime someone puts a gay or bi character in a comic people start saying it's an "agenda"?. Flynn is a great writer. So what if he includes a gay or bi or even transgender character in the new comic? I think that would be pretty cool. I trust Flynn to handle it well.

Maybe i'm just misunderstanding you though. Maybe you just have a problem with that relationship and not with the concept of gay characters as a whole. But even then, Flynn is not gonna ruin the new comics because he likes the idea of Sally and Nicole being together, two characters who might not even make it to the new comics.

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8 hours ago, Korke said:

Edit for avoiding double-posting: Keeping Flynn might also not be a smart move from IDW, his presence as a main head writer might cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book. And it's fair to remember that the sales in the main book of Archie Sonic were reaching their lowest numbers ever.

Regarding fans Ian Flynn is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I remember before the 2013 Reboot some Sega Purist were like "He's a Sally fanbrat!" and some SatAM Hardliner were like "He's a Amy fanbrat!". It was nuts.

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My main concern for Flynn is that he never really got past his problem of dragging on stories too long. Some later arcs worked well with pacing like Champions, but others still felt they went slowly at the start while rushing to cram the climax in at the end, or otherwise just dropped the ball on the ending altogether. If the format of the new comic is more geared in the style of something like Sonic Boom (either one-shots or two-parters), that may be less of an issue because he generally has less pacing issues there (which is ironic). 

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12 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

My main concern for Flynn is that he never really got past his problem of dragging on stories too long. Some later arcs worked well with pacing like Champions, but others still felt they went slowly at the start while rushing to cram the climax in at the end, or otherwise just dropped the ball on the ending altogether. If the format of the new comic is more geared in the style of something like Sonic Boom (either one-shots or two-parters), that may be less of an issue because he generally has less pacing issues there (which is ironic). 

I have to agree. I've only finished Waves of Change and I feel that the tease for Werehog Sonic is dragging on a bit too long. 

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I like Ian Flynn, but I'd ok if he isn't hired for the job as long as whoever they get maintains the appeal that got people hooked in the first place.

Because if it's just Sonic, Tails and Eggman with everyone else fanboying over how awesome Sonic is I don't see it lasting more than 2 years.

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On 28/07/2017 at 2:39 AM, VEDJ-F said:

We don't know that. Seriously, all people based that off was the direct sales even though it was stressed multiple times that the Mega Drive arc was primarily not direct sales-related even moreso than the regular comics. It's probably a bit lower than the first Mega Drive, but we don't know how much lower. Probably better than most regular arcs still. 

 

I don't want to be that guy here, but do we know the real numbers for the main book and universe beyond direct sales? Was direct sales where they sold the most or they were like mega drive, selling more through other ways? I mean, i myself had subscription for both (digital but still) and those don't count to the direct sales right? Also we had a man who had no reason at all to bring this to the table, but when asked about how the comics were doing he answered "I don't know about direct sales, but subscriptions are going up..." , so how can we say that mega-drive and it's sequel sold better than the regular series if we don't have the real numbers for both beyond those of direct sales? Asking a honest question here.

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3 minutes ago, NikoS said:

I don't what to be that guy here, but do we know the real numbers for the main book and universe beyond direct sales? Was direct sales where they sold the most or they were like mega drive, selling more through other ways? I mean, i myself had subscription for both (digital but still) and thos don't count to the direct sales right? Also we had a man who had no reason at all to bring this to the table, but when asked about how the comics were doing he answered "I don't know about direct sales, but subscriptions are going up..." , so how can we say that mega-drive and it's sequel sold better than the regular series if we don't have the real numbers for both beyond those of direct sales? Asking a honest question here.

You make a good point there.

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10 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

We don't know that. Seriously, all people based that off was the direct sales even though it was stressed multiple times that the Mega Drive arc was primarily not direct sales-related even moreso than the regular comics. It's probably a bit lower than the first Mega Drive, but we don't know how much lower. Probably better than most regular arcs still. 

 

Hence why I said "arguable" before the part you quoted...

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8 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

But pre-reboot fans like Flynn a lot. Yes there is some angry at him still but everyone knows it wasn't his fault that SEGA had to reboot the comics. Most people only really started to get invested in the Sonic comics pre-reboot when Flynn got on board too. His stories, his characters, his characterization. He wasn't the only good writer at Archie yes but he came in a era that we call the Dark Ages for a reason, he was a very welcome and fresh take on the book at that time. Whatever Non-Flynn Archie fan like Bollers fans or Penders fans or even way back Cesare and Gallagher fans they left long, long ago. 

Also you've said so before that you don't want Flynn back because you think he has an "agenda" with gay relationships and honestly I'm not trying to pick  fight or start something with you but there is nothing wrong with that. And it's not an "agenda" anywa. Why is it everytime someone puts a gay or bi character in a comic people start saying it's an "agenda"?. Flynn is a great writer. So what if he includes a gay or bi or even transgender character in the new comic? I think that would be pretty cool. I trust Flynn to handle it well.

Maybe i'm just misunderstanding you though. Maybe you just have a problem with that relationship and not with the concept of gay characters as a whole. But even then, Flynn is not gonna ruin the new comics because he likes the idea of Sally and Nicole being together, two characters who might not even make it to the new comics.

I won't blame you for thinking like this, because you don't know me from other forums in which I did show my dislike to his writing since reboot's first 10~15 issues, way before all this mess. But I guess I should clarify what I meant with the word agenda. I have revealed my fair reason in which I don't like that ship fact being canon at the Archie thread, now I'll show my unfair reason because I'll admit it is clouded by bias.

Alright, so we do know that Sally is a character that at the same time she has quite a numerous fanbase, her... "hatebase" is just a big, even today, mostly due to the dark ages Sonally moments still stuck in people's memories, and the fact that she's still a bland Sue, being hard for some to sympathize with, including myself. Pulling out this forced stunt felt, at least to me, a cheap maneuver to try making her a endearing character to those. "Oh, come on, please forgive her. Look at this, I'm giving a progressist sub-plot on her! This will certainly make you believe she is a cool and great character, please forget how unappealing she is."

---

Anyway, it's not like I hate him as a person or anything like that. I'm just used to react like this in other examples, when my football club is looking for a new coach and the media/press do press for a coach that I don't like, that certainly ticks my nerves. Except that I get real salt, the club making bad campaign may lead to a tragic demotion to a lower division, while this is just a media production. Or maybe not, after all, if the sales were going well and the readership increasing, they would'nt have had pulled the plug in the first place, no? Could count that as a demotion?

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3 hours ago, Korke said:

Alright, so we do know that Sally is a character that at the same time she has quite a numerous fanbase, her... "hatebase" is just a big, even today, mostly due to the dark ages Sonally moments still stuck in people's memories, and the fact that she's still a bland Sue, being hard for some to sympathize with, including myself. Pulling out this forced stunt felt, at least to me, a cheap maneuver to try making her a endearing character to those. "Oh, come on, please forgive her. Look at this, I'm giving a progressist sub-plot on her! This will certainly make you believe she is a cool and great character, please forget how unappealing she is."

I do have to agree. As amazing a writer Flynn is, he tries way too hard to make Sally an endearing character, which kinda backfires. I have nothing against homosexuals (thank you Steven Universe) but using Sally for this stunt seems forced.

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14 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

 

How will his presence cause pre-reboot fans to auto-deny the new book? That makes no damn sense given this would be a whole new direction based on what was stated. Especially considering even pre-reboot fans know that everything that led to the first reboot and this whole mess was out of his control in the beginning, and they're still out of luck over whatever issues they have on the new book whether or not Flynn's behind it.

This sounds like a personal grudge of yours to me. Never mind that post-reboot fans will be pissed for him not being around if you want to play that, so you're really putting your claim in a bizzare limbo here.

Hell Pre-Reboot Archie fans probably won't give this book a shot anyway since the reason that most of them left was the dropping of Pre-Reboot elements in the first place. What would a brand new book that's most likely going to take it's own spin regardless of if a few Archie Elements make it over have for fans of Geoffrey St John (Ha I'm sorry I can't say that without laughing) or Julie-Su?

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