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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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11 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

In the old days, if Eggy came knocking on the door of Knothole, or if somebody came unannounced on Angel Island and started making trouble, Sonic and Knux would take that personally. They would have that extra tension involved in dealing with that threat.

Guess who is the only character who has that right now. I'd say that's plenty unique.

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"if somebody came unannounced on Angel Island and started making trouble, Knux would take that personally."

.

7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Well, I really hope Ms. Tangle actually stays in this eventually unnamed town/city/village...because it could be just a phase.

Ch'yeah, I was about to say: if they really wanted us to care about Tangle caring about the town she was introduced in, they would've given it a name.

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57 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

...is village/town thing worth discussing? I don't even remember any mobian settlements in games before Forces... unless you count Emerald Town in Sonic Battle. No visible humans there.

 

57 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Anyway, reasons why I would like to see Shadow look for Infinite
1) It continues Archie tradition of Shadow being a secret superhero (with GUN or without). When Sonic takes care of obvious problems at hand (Eggman, Dark Gaia, "Chairman"), Shadow works behind the scenes, stopping Dark Arms invasion or making sure Infinite is down for good, stopping th threats before they arise. It just fits him.

I don't think that fits him at all. Shadow is best at taking care of whatever shadow wants to take care of. Sometimes its eggman sometimes it isn't, I think its a character you have imposed on him that isn't really present.  I also think the good parts of those stories were him interacting with other characters, more so than him being some imagined furry 007. Along with both of those things, shadow has been impersonated for the last several months as his visage was used to harm people and things. So him being out the open and seeing peoples reaction to that is interesting. 

I don't think shadow missing from stories is him being a secret agent, its more so like in forces, he's strong and a lot of times if he just punched the bad guy ... it would solve the issue. Then you don't really have much of plot.

57 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:


2) If Infinite lost his powers, this is great moment to get any depth from him. Will he crack? Look for his team? Pretend he's still demigod? "When we' hit our lowest point, we're open to greatest change" to quote. And if Sega wants to keep him for later, him not learning anything will tell us much about him as well. What makes comic's Loki great villain is that he can't stop lying to everyone including himself, otherwise he would have to face what a bastard he is.

I'm familiar with comics loki and I believe you to be wrong. What makes loki and infinitely more interesting character than his brother is is that he lives in a society that sort of even when he isn't doing anything actively points the spotlight away from him and seeing him react to that is fun. But more so than that, he's often a lot more human than a lot of the other gods, he has insecurities and shit and often is way a head of them when shit is going to hit the fan in Asgard because despite the front he puts up ,he's kind  of the least up his own ass. 

That said, I do not see loki infinite at all. However, you do bring up a good example for potential. I guess , I was so ...unethused by the character, I wasn't seeing any examples of how to even write this guy. But him being some weirdo, who pretends he's demi god and gets crapped on all the time sounds genuinely interesting. Or him trying to find his own crew and they want nothing to do with him. That would be neat. I just I guess don't see him having much to do with shadow. He showed that he didn't want that smoke in the forces story. Why change now. 

57 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:


3) And if you consider Infnite a worthless character, he will make a decent foil to Shadow. It's a good remind that power doesn't make the man worthy, it's the man who gives worth to power. Or something like that.

That's genuinely neat. Though If I were to teach a lesson through comparison, I would teach a more meta one about writing like with scourge. As mentioned before, infinite is a very cynical take on an archetype very simular to shadow. As sort of lesson  of, " shadow is what to do " " infinite is what not to do " kind of way 

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27 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Not every character needs to be a globe trotter, however if one wants to have interaction with the larger world. They kind of need to travel, unless every goddamn thing is gonna happen in tangles town.

Everything doesn't need to happen in her town, but the next time something does it would be nice to have a grounding agent.

 

27 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Tails is still just a kid. That description of amy is stretching it, and not really on the hard hitting thing. It really depends on the interpretation , for the most part she's just a girl that likes sonic. Detectives can be normal people, and often are. Espio... ok you got me. 

Tails has saved the world several times over in multiple mediums. No one is mistaking him for a normie. He's robin to Sonics batman.

Amy is a beast. She ranges from strong, to downright force of nature depending on who is behind the pencil and paper. All of these characters have marched into the teeth of Eggman's latest and greatest and come out the other side unscathed. No normal citizen is going to do that. You not going to pick out three members of the towns guard and ask them to do what Team Chaotix did in Sonic heroes. Your not going to see average joe mobian go toe to toe with Eggman and win.

There is nothing normal about any of Sonic friends. They are crazy OP compared to the rest of the populous.

 

27 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Not really? For example, there are some normal humans in marvel and DC comics that can be fodder. Doesn't make you super... its just fodder. I don't think amy is that far above a normal person, I think the reason she's special ( besides that magic thing she never does ) is the fact thats he decides to get up get out and get something. 

 

Amy has too many feats to her name to think she is  just above normal. There is a reason why the local furries hide behind their walls while people like her OHKO super badniks.

 

27 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think that's valuable. But to each their own

Variety is always valuable. It adds flexibility for the writer to tackle a wider range of stories.

 

27 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I mean sonic defending some random town that would happen to have a friend of his in it would have the same tension tbh

 

No way. Its just not the same if its not impacting you directly.

Lets use a different metaphor.

Imagine you are Sonic. You live in a nice community. One day, one of your pals the next town over gets his house broken into and some stuff gets stolen. You'll defiantly feel for the guy, but I guarantee that if you shuffle the details around, and it was your house that got ransacked, your feelings would be even more amplified. Its just human nature to react stronger to stuff that hits closer to home.

Tha's what having roots can do for a character. Sonic can only show up and try to fix what is already going on. His investment only lasts as long as he's willing to stay - he can't possibly match stakes with someone who has to deal with the before, current and after. There is more tension to be found in that position 101 times out of 100.

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3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

You not going to pick out three members of the towns guard and ask them to do what Team Chaotix did in Sonic heroes.

Actually, as far as Heroes' story is concerned, that's exactly what Eggman did. It doesn't justify why he chose to hire them beyond "he's heard good things about them", and we're not given any indication that Eggman has prior knowledge on them. In that particular case, if you ran a detective agency with some good word of mouth, you were perfectly viable for Eggman's plans. 

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1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I don't think that fits him at all. Shadow is best at taking care of whatever shadow wants to take care of. Sometimes its eggman sometimes it isn't, I think its a character you have imposed on him that isn't really present.  I also think the good parts of those stories were him interacting with other characters, more so than him being some imagined furry 007. Along with both of those things, shadow has been impersonated for the last several months as his visage was used to harm people and things. So him being out the open and seeing peoples reaction to that is interesting. 

 

(rest points I more-less agree on)

It fits from meta perspective.

Sonic franchise has army of characters, but they either busy in the future/other dimension/etc or aren't that powerful. The only true defender of planet is Sonic... and Shadow who has powers, will and ego to protect this world. Heck, he kinda promised.

But we can't allow that, can't we. This is "Sonic the Hedgehog", not "Super Hedgehog Bros". Story is about Sonic saving the world, Shadow can't run around stealing his thunder. Not in post-2006 world. Sega can allow itself for Shadow to sit back in Generations or Forces just kinda cheering. But Flynn tries harder, so on the bigger scale it's nice to have explanation "Why Shadow isn't stopping this Eggman scheme or fixing the Shattered Planet". Sometimes he can just do Collide with Shadow joining a giant army, but on a longer scale we could use a long-term explanation.

Now I don't care if Shadow is James Bond or not. I know he's willing to take dirtier jobs. I know he doesn't mind taking order and working on a plan, rather than running around helping peeps. I know that Sonic lives in a present and won't think about troubles until they come. Shadow ... well, he isn't "smarter" per se, but takes his job more seriously. So if someone asked "I wonder what happened to Infinite", Shadow is more likely would consider him a threat to localize and deal with.

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39 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

(rest points I more-less agree on)

It fits from meta perspective.

Sonic franchise has army of characters, but they either busy in the future/other dimension/etc or aren't that powerful. The only true defender of planet is Sonic... and Shadow who has powers, will and ego to protect this world. Heck, he kinda promised

1) I would argue that anyone who wants to defend the planet. Can do that, you don't just have to be super and glowey to do it

2) I would say despite knuckles being bad at his job, he's also doing that

3) WELL TECHNICALLY SPEAKING ~ , he promised to defend earth. Not mobious. Reminder Sega decided those are different planets now and every moment shadow is on this planet he's literally betraying maria and dancing on her grave ( Kidding about the last part ) . Though actual reminder, by splitting the planets, shadow should actually never show up in the comic.

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.

But we can't allow that, can't we. This is "Sonic the Hedgehog", not "Super Hedgehog Bros". Story is about Sonic saving the world, Shadow can't run around stealing his thunder.

Yeah you can. You can just write a story where shadow beats the bad person up. Heck you could maybe give him his own book. Nothing is stopping you.

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Not in post-2006 world. Sega can allow itself for Shadow to sit back in Generations or Forces just kinda cheering.

While generations is...unfortunate. The thing in forces is something I can forgive, because everything in that game screams " this was supposed to be another video game" to the degree where shadow vanishes for most of the story because they introduced that shadow could just beat up the bad guy at any moment. So he only came back when infnite figured out how to pull a sun out of his ass. I mean i'm not forgiving forces for being bad, but its a complete mess that's several video games mashed together, so like i'm just gonna pretend it largely didn't happen. I mean I guess that's sad, but forces is... a mess. 

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But Flynn tries harder, so on the bigger scale it's nice to have explanation "Why Shadow isn't stopping this Eggman scheme or fixing the Shattered Planet". Sometimes he can just do Collide with Shadow joining a giant army, but on a longer scale we could use a long-term explanation.

I mean him doing other stuff is a fine explanation. I don't like the idea that he's " helping sonic from the underground " no he's doing his own shit. Eclipse outside of a grander scale of eventual world domination, didn't have anything to do with sonic. It was shadow's thing, I like that it was shadow's thing. I want more of that

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Now I don't care if Shadow is James Bond or not. I know he's willing to take dirtier jobs. I know he doesn't mind taking order and working on a plan, rather than running around helping peeps.

I think shadow's willing to do both. Its kind of the plot of his game, and its a reoccurring thing in the comics. If you ask shadow nice enough, or if he's around... he'll just help you. I was the guy who called shadow a recluse to some extent, but he will interact and help people if the need arises. I think alternating between some gun plan he's enacted and just helping normal folk would do a lot for his character. And the latter would probably be more interesting for his character because it would allow to interact with more folk. 

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I know that Sonic lives in a present and won't think about troubles until they come. Shadow ... well, he isn't "smarter" per se, but takes his job more seriously. So if someone asked "I wonder what happened to Infinite", Shadow is more likely would consider him a threat to localize and deal with.

I would say shadow is smarter. Sonic doing this hero shit for free, Shadow has his former oppressors funding him because they can't do anything with out him. Vehicles ain't cheap, shadow knows whats up. Sonic is living on tails's couching bumming chilli dogs off of him, he's a hobo hero.( In a non joking manner shadow seems to be able to fix and work on mechanical stuff with out training or the time tails has put into it , so one might assume that shadow might have been made in such away that he's an extremely quick learner , might also why it seems like he's gotten better with his abilities overtime while other characters seem stagnant, but that's just speculation on my part ) 

Seriously though , I just don't think infinite is on his list to care about. TBH the planet he's on shouldn't be on his list

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

I want a cover with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Blaze and Tangle.

All of 4 issues represented!

There's enough heat about Amy not being representing in Mania in person, I think you might have accidentally omitted her here. 

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15 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

There's enough heat about Amy not being representing in Mania in person

Admittedly, she would've made much more sense than Metal.

14 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I think you might have accidentally omitted her here. 

Accidentally? 

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34 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Admittedly, she would've made much more sense than Metal.

Accidentally? 

The rundown of characters didn’t include Amy, who should represent issue 2.

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3 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

The rundown of characters didn’t include Amy, who should represent issue 2.

Yeah, I knew that. I was just pointing out the correlation of Amy being left out of being showcased alongside Team Sonic, Blaze, and KickbuttGirl.

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12 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah, I knew that. I was just pointing out the correlation of Amy being left out of being showcased alongside Team Sonic, Blaze, and KickbuttGirl.

Ah it was accidental!!

I was in a hurry to write I want a cover with all the characters.

Amy was a spotlight in Fallout!

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So I saw a post on Twitter that exclaimed that IDW Sonic #1-4 first print runs had collectively sold over 60,000 copies. It sounds a lot, but is that good compared to Archie and some of its 4 issue arcs? Or the early more popular years of Archie according to old Penders who is always touting that his early runs sold the most of any issues. Blegh.

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Collectively? That's an average of 15k each, which is like 1.5x what an average Archie issue would get, and 2x what an average Universe issue would get. 

Lemme get the real number...

Sonic #1 - 21,362
Sonic #2 - 14,684
Sonic #3 - 13,779
Sonic #4 - 13,225

That doesn't seem too much higher than the Archie Sonic average (9 - 10k by the end) going by the figure its trending down to. 

Edit: For comparison's sake, these are the figures for the first four issues of Sonic Boom.

Sonic Boom #1 - 17,228

Sonic Boom #2 - 8,216

Sonic Boom #3 - 7,474

Sonic Boom #4 - 6,957

So it has started higher than that, and stabilised at a higher point. Although bear in mind it's yet to face the challenge of monthly retention. 

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14 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Actually, as far as Heroes' story is concerned, that's exactly what Eggman did. It doesn't justify why he chose to hire them beyond "he's heard good things about them", and we're not given any indication that Eggman has prior knowledge on them. In that particular case, if you ran a detective agency with some good word of mouth, you were perfectly viable for Eggman's plans. 

They probably added in their ad "your case solved before the game's story ends or you get a free pizza on us", and since the poor doc was locked away by that ungrateful Metal Sonic without any food...

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2 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

They probably added in their ad "your case solved before the game's story ends or you get a free pizza on us", and since the poor doc was locked away by that ungrateful Metal Sonic without any food...

At least Neo Metal was nice enough to let him have an Amazon subscription.

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36 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

That doesn't seem too much higher than the Archie Sonic average (9 - 10k by the end) going by the figure its trending down to. 

So it has started higher than that, and stabilised at a higher point. Although bear in mind it's yet to face the challenge of monthly retention. 

So should we assume by that then that IDW has smaller print runs than Archie if they are selling out and going into 2nd runs if the numbers are roughly the same but IDW is doing 2nd and 3rd runs?

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I don't think it's so much that they have smaller print runs regular (otherwise we'd hear about MLP getting second printings all the time), more that the print runs for these issues were restricted. All the numbers line up to a 10k print run for all of them (at least for direct market alone), which is way lower than you'd expect in a print run for Sonic. 

Why that would be is more interesting to think about. I personally propose two possible readings of the information, an...optimist reading (for lack of a better phrase) and a cynical reading. 

Optimist: The print runs were restricted to scope out the market. Printing in batches of 10k allows them to gauge how much interest there is in the comic so they can adjust the print run for future issues accordingly.

Cynical: The prints runs were restricted specifically to generate hype about there being more print runs, despite the fact the numbers aren't that much higher on paper. Plus they can get more money out of print run exclusive variants. 

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I'm pretty sure print runs are based on overall demand and pre-orders. The incentive covers are a big part of that, too. If a customer really wants that Kieran Gates cover, and will actually pay the stupidly high price the comic shop will slap on it, then the stores will order those hundred copies to score it for them and make back some of what they spent on that batch of issues that are going to go for $4 a pop (plus the ten copies of Fourdraine cover and four copies Knight covers). Those sorts of orders, rare as they probably are, will likely clear out Diamond's stock faster and facilitate additional printings for at least the next month or so.

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16 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Actually, as far as Heroes' story is concerned, that's exactly what Eggman did. It doesn't justify why he chose to hire them beyond "he's heard good things about them", and we're not given any indication that Eggman has prior knowledge on them. In that particular case, if you ran a detective agency with some good word of mouth, you were perfectly viable for Eggman's plans. 

Well its a good thing that
Maina+ Spoilers

Spoiler


Maina+ further muddies Knuckles Chaotix canon status by bringing back big Ol' Red head. If Chaotix is canon, than Eggman would know who the detectives were because they helped to thwart one of his plans in the past.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Well its a good thing that
Maina+ Spoilers

  Hide contents

 

Maina+ further muddies Knuckles Chaotix canon status by bringing back big Ol' Red head. If Chaotix is canon, than Eggman would know who the detectives were because they helped to thwart one of his plans in the past.

 

 

1. That is still up for debate on whether KC is even canon to the classic line. Like, for further spoilers, the trailer has a meta acknowledgement of Knuckles and Mighty working together before, but going by Encore mode's current description this doesn't apply in the actual events of the game.

2; Regardless, this does not apply to the Modern side. The things happening to Mania Plus count for classic only, and the modern side is not affected by any of it. As such, the reading stays exactly the same as it ever was; Eggman did not know the Chaotix beforehand, he only hired them on good word. 

I mean, you can't make KC canon to Heroes, or how Vector acts to "Eggman" (especially in the Japanese version) makes no sense at all. Like, he apologises for taking out Eggman's robots as part of the job before Espio points out it's the evil scientist Dr Eggman, that is not the reaction of someone who's fought Eggman before.

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20 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

 Espio points out it's the evil scientist Dr Eggman, that is not the reaction of someone who's fought Eggman before.

Perhaps the American boxart of the Chaotix is the only canon thing about the game and Espio was just stuck in a combi-catcher the whole time?)
Knuckles_Chaotix.thumb.png.a0fdfff8b66107b0bd07e04589379f0c.png

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