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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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2 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Makes it worse since usually Shadow showing up in anything is treated as big deal that should carry on for more than just one issue. Unless 6 has more pages, I feel they won't do him or Rouge justice.

Personally I would like for him to show up casually as well and not just as a ~huge deal~.

I disagree heavily that they're "holding back on Shadow," especially not any more than the rest of the cast. Even putting aside things like how they never shied away from him being featured in Archie, to stuff like Episode Shadow, it makes no sense in the context of this book. Rather than looking at the issue #s as if they matter, it'll be roughly three months into IDW Sonic's run. For something like a comic, I'd say that's pretty darn fast.

As for not appearing on any covers, uh. Admittedly, it'll be surprising if he isn't on at least one. But it's not a huge issue to me either. I remember when people thought Tangle or Blaze (I can't remember lol) would overshadow the other because one was...ahead of the other on a cover or two...and look, I don't know how much experience y'all have with comics, but I've learned that covers should generally not be taken that seriously.

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17 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Personally I would like for him to show up casually as well and not just as a ~huge deal~.

I disagree heavily that they're "holding back on Shadow," especially not any more than the rest of the cast. Even putting aside things like how they never shied away from featuring him in Archie, to stuff like Episode Shadow, it makes no sense in the context of this book. Rather than looking at the issue #s as if they matter, it'll be roughly three months into IDW Sonic's run. For something like a comic, I'd say that's pretty darn fast.

As for not appearing on any covers, uh. Admittedly, it'll be surprising if he isn't on at least one. But it's not a huge issue to me either. I remember when people thought Tangle or Blaze (I can't remember lol) would overshadow the other because one was...ahead of the other on a cover or two...and look, I don't know how much experience y'all have with comics, but I've learned that covers should generally not be taken that seriously.

Shadow being the most plot oriented and story heavy character in the series not a huge deal, can I have some your pot? Shadow is bigger than anyone outside of Sonic, Tails and Eggman as a story heavy character, and he gets zero chances to tie to those three on a casual basis in new stories because they are nostalgia biased plots. 

Thats not really the case with Sonic, when it comes to advertising popularity for the series. When it narrows down to it, the characters that have less popularity have more promotion debuts than the actual popular characters, it comes off as the official sources trying to push said characters into being on the spotlight with Sonic and by proxy trying to make characters more famous and iconic as said popular characters. Look at Amy, she's not any where as popular as Sonic, Tails, knuckles and Shadow is but she's in every promotional advertisment before the real big players in some game or some comic are revealed alongside the new characters, this is apparent with Shadow and even Rouge since she's pretty much one of the most popular furry sex symbols in the series.

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46 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow being the most plot oriented and story heavy character in the series not a huge deal, can I have some your pot?

He is a big deal, in the general sense!

What I meant was that not all of his appearances have to be part of a multi-part storyline. Which I said in response to the part of your post I quoted.

46 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

When it narrows down to it, the characters that have less popularity have more promotion debuts than the actual popular characters, it comes off as the official sources trying to push said characters into being on the spotlight with Sonic and by proxy trying to make characters more famous and iconic as said popular characters.

Even if that was true I wouldn't see the problem there. Hell to be frank, considering Shadow's reputation, the fact he's still featured even as much as he is nowadays is a miracle from the "business" point of view you keep pushing. I love the character a lot, I really do, but come on.

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20 minutes ago, Celestia said:

He is a big deal, in the general sense!

What I meant was that not all of his appearances have to be part of a multi-part storyline. Which I said in response to the part of your post I quoted.

Even if that was true I wouldn't see the problem there. Hell to be frank, considering Shadow's reputation, the fact he's still featured even as much as he is nowadays is a miracle from the "business" point of view you keep pushing. I love the character a lot, I really do, but come on.

Truth be told, I think Shadow has gotten enough attention since he got his own spinoff that could work as a main series game and his own story in the recent Forces game (granted, they both weren't that good). In addition, in almost every story with Team Dark in it, he often gets the most focus out of the team and is often the main character.

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3 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

My current beef is that we haven't seen any covers with the characters of 5/6 on them because of Eggman dominating the promotion. I can imagine a #6 variant eventually being revealed showing at least Shadow because he's a featured part of the conflict and the issue is like 6/7 weeks away. Can't guarantee the same for the Chaotix debut. 

Yeah that's weird. I was expecting like a chaotix detective cover by now. Whats up with that

 

2 hours ago, Celestia said:

 

Even if that was true I wouldn't see the problem there. Hell to be frank, considering Shadow's reputation, the fact he's still featured even as much as he is nowadays is a miracle from the "business" point of view you keep pushing. I love the character a lot, I really do, but come on.

Edit Better phrasing: Its not a miracle. That's now how businesses work, shadow is a popular character with several of their core demographics thus he gets use. Nerds on the internet not liking him is sort of meaningless. 

Just wanted to point that out. Businesses aren't your friend.

I agree with your sentiment to not take covers seriously though. That said, doesn't it come out next month, i'm sure we will see one eventually

 

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"Miracle" was an exaggeration on my part, admittedly. I know very well that if SEGA was going to cut down on Shadow it would've been like a decade ago, and well...they did, in the games. They never seemed to really care too much outside of that (they even let the team at Archie make Black Arms characters*), and even in the games have thrown him a (very small) bone lately, so...I don't know where the perception that they're suddenly concerned about featuring him is coming from except that, so far, he isn't on any covers of exactly one issue we know he's in. Which, yeah, I don't think means anything.

*This used to bother me, but I got over it. It helps I actually liked their designs, unlike Doom.

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Oh @Celestia

Dash Speed is crazy, Shadow's defo getting push. He isn't getting subdued at all. I didn't expect to see him in the comic for like a year, he's in issue 6. He might get more push as time goes on. I just wanted to point out about the miracle thing. Most of what Dash Speed says about shadow... I kind of have to disregard in some respects

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While Shadow is a very popular character, it needs to be remembered that he is also a very polarising one.  You don't have to look far to find people who regard him as the exemplar of everything wrong with the franchise, and who would be as turned off by his inclusion as his fans are turned on.  As such, you have to handle Shadow slightly more carefully than just slapping him front and centre of everything; for all the talk of his popularity, he never got another spin-off game, after all.

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That most applies to older fans. For younger fans (whom the comic would primarily be aimed for given it's an advertising avenue), he's way less polarising. That's probably why Ian said that he and team Dark would be most likely to get a dedicated spin-off book out of all the non-Sonic characters, why Shadow was shoe-horned into the Boom games and by extension the TV show, and why Episode Shadow even exists. 

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16 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

To those asking about the cover: it’s Jamal Peppers. One only needs to look at the credits in the solicit.

It’s me actually.

EDIT: Not fake either (concerning the below post)

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9 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Secondly, I don't think that a character being popular should warrant any kind of special treatment. Either they can stand on their very own merit or they can not. Frankly, I detest the idea of other characters with better potential to be ignored because of popularity based favoritisms.

Much as I agree with this, we are talking business and Sonic has been around for almost three decades. Even in Sonic's early days though Knuckles got a lot of spotlight and became a heavily recurring character due to his popularity so Shadow getting a push to exploit his popularity and bring in the money is only to be expected. Disappointing yes, but that's reality in a nut shell unfortunately...

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50 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Much as I agree with this, we are talking business and Sonic has been around for almost three decades. Even in Sonic's early days though Knuckles got a lot of spotlight and became a heavily recurring character due to his popularity so Shadow getting a push to exploit his popularity and bring in the money is only to be expected. Disappointing yes, but that's reality in a nut shell unfortunately...

One that shouldn't be, since in the end, Sonic IS the main selling point. Overusing popular characters is something that in the long run not only makes them feel mundane, but ironically can make the apparently less popular characters outshine them when they do get their chance, like how the second issue focusing on Amy was agreed to have been more enjoyable than #1 and #3 which featured the more popular Tails and Knuckles.

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1 hour ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Wait, is it fake or not? I’m confused now.

Also...

Dc7s9UjU0AAY8wI.jpg

I do find it kinda amazing, that if you don't include the random direction Sega World Sydney went, it took nearly 20 years before Archie comics had merch made (T-Shirts, posters, art prints) IDW gets it within 20 days of the comic published.

 

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1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

One that shouldn't be, since in the end, Sonic IS the main selling point. Overusing popular characters is something that in the long run not only makes them feel mundane, but ironically can make the apparently less popular characters outshine them when they do get their chance, like how the second issue focusing on Amy was agreed to have been more enjoyable than #1 and #3 which featured the more popular Tails and Knuckles.

I think Amy's execution being on point definitely helped though. As for Tails and Knuckles, they definitely suffer from overexposure. While it was nice seeing them in action and handled better than in the games, it was nothing new from Ian Flynn who knows how to handle their characters (though I would argue that Knuckles felt like he was missing his rivalry and banter with Sonic that accompanies it). Amy on the other hand, considering before Ian Flynn had to balance her against the Sonally dynamic, we had never seen actually have a chance to shine with all facets of her personality on display. It was astoundingly fresh and that was due in to part to a lack of over exposure. It is possibly also why I enjoyed Tangle so much, as the in over her head goof ball is definitely an angle that has never been played before (not that Amy has never been in over her head but she's never played as a goof ball in those situation).

 

Of course all of this commenting on overexposure does bring to light the problem with a singular lead in Sonic; we will by nature be overexposed to him. Considering that, it will be extremely important for the comic to take advantage of the large cast it has access to so it can provide us irregular rotations and combinations of characters for Sonic to interact with to demonstrate all the facets of his personality and how they reflect off of different people, combinations of people, and situations. If Sonic is always teamed up with Tails and Knuckles in the big battles it will definitely get stale fast.

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2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 like how the second issue focusing on Amy was agreed to have been more enjoyable than #1 and #3 which featured the more popular Tails and Knuckles.

Haha, I know what you're looking to imply, SMS.

Curiously enough, while you did remind that Sonic is supposed to be the main selling point - he's just a boring protagonist overall, at least in this IDW/SEGA Vanilla moment. Bland and unrelatable. What can be done to fix this?

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4 hours ago, FFWF said:

While Shadow is a very popular character, it needs to be remembered that he is also a very polarising one.  You don't have to look far to find people who regard him as the exemplar of everything wrong with the franchise, and who would be as turned off by his inclusion as his fans are turned on.  As such, you have to handle Shadow slightly more carefully than just slapping him front and centre of everything; for all the talk of his popularity, he never got another spin-off game, after all.

Eh, most people don't care. The polarization of shadow the hedgehog, is within video game enthusiasts, people who grew up with adventure or just kids... don't really care. I mean it might make him hard to put in Sonic mania 2, along with a lot of other dreamcast forward characters. But General most people don't really care, he's a cartoon hedgehog they like cuz he's edgy. I think this applies to sonic in general, people will gravitate towards a good sonic game if they like it. They wont if they don't, the ones dedicated to telling us that they are good and bad, are enthusasts which a much smaller group of people

He could probs get another, game, and he can defo get on the cover of a book. Its like venom, Vemon is polorizing as fuck... with comic books fans, to everyone else he's one of the most popular comic book characters on the planet. Most folk don't care. 

 

2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

One that shouldn't be, since in the end, Sonic IS the main selling point. Overusing popular characters is something that in the long run not only makes them feel mundane, but ironically can make the apparently less popular characters outshine them when they do get their chance, like how the second issue focusing on Amy was agreed to have been more enjoyable than #1 and #3 which featured the more popular Tails and Knuckles.

In what way is shadow being over used, he hasn't been used much in a while. That doesn't make sense. Further more they didn't shy away from using his face on covers with archie, so that makes no sense. And making them feel mundane is more an opinion of yours than it is a factual statement, so that's hard to use that as an argument. 

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1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 (though I would argue that Knuckles felt like he was missing his rivalry and banter with Sonic that accompanies it). 

That was definitely part of the problem, yes.

1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I think Amy's execution being on point definitely helped though.Amy on the other hand, considering before Ian Flynn had to balance her against the Sonally dynamic, we had never seen actually have a chance to shine with all facets of her personality on display. It was astoundingly fresh and that was due in to part to a lack of over exposure.

Actually, I'd say Amy's advantage, along emphasizing her character in a positive but enjoyable manner, is specifically having the whole issue to interact with Sonic and have it be a constant, plus varied focus.

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4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

In what way is shadow being over used, he hasn't been used much in a while. That doesn't make sense. Further more they didn't shy away from using his face on covers with archie, so that makes no sense. And making them feel mundane is more an opinion of yours than it is a factual statement, so that's hard to use that as an argument. 

Pretty much every character not named Sonic, Tails or Eggman has not been used in a while... and even then cases like Tails have not been exactly something that his fans enjoy as either he's just there to give exposition or to create dramatic tension by acting out of character.

Also, these comics will be published once a month, and Shadow isn't the only character with fans waiting to see their favorites do those cool things that the current games no longer allow them to. Wouldn't it be unfair for them to wait longer just because, from what you seem to suggest, Shadow's "awesomeness" cannot be contained in less than four issues?

Personally, I think Shadow is just another support character like everyone else, and like everyone else, deserves his fair slice of the action, but no more than that such as popularity/lore based favoritisms, since the only to characters I feel to be entitled to such treatment are Sonic and Eggman, and even with them things can't be overdone before they too start to suffer from being overexposed.

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1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

Pretty much every character not named Sonic, Tails or Eggman has not been used in a while... and even then cases like Tails have not been exactly something that his fans enjoy as either he's just there to give exposition or to create dramatic tension by acting out of character.

Also, these comics will be published once a month, and Shadow isn't the only character with fans waiting to see their favorites do those cool things that the current games no longer allow them to. Wouldn't it be unfair for them to wait longer just because, from what you seem to suggest, Shadow's "awesomeness" cannot be contained in less than four issues?

Personally, I think Shadow is just another support character like everyone else, and like everyone else, deserves his fair slice of the action, but no more than that such as popularity/lore based favoritisms, since the only to characters I feel to be entitled to such treatment are Sonic and Eggman, and even with them things can't be overdone before they too start to suffer from being overexposed.

I feel like the more popular you are the more shit you should be allowed to get personally. Because....generally that's how brands work. The reason there are like a bunch of books folliwng bat children is because people like bat children. 

Also I think Knuckles, Shadow, amy , Eggman, Tails and sometimes metal sonic. Kind of rank above " support characrer" and should, and have gotten more shit than everyone else. Shadow isn't the only character with fans, but hes a big one. And fairly important to a lot of folks, and will sell books, so most likely he might be around more often than several others. 

I don't know what else to say. Capitalism and brands don't work on fair, they work on profit and value. If you want fair , you should follow something completely author owned and controlled. A corporate brand meant for children is not that

That doesn't mean that other characters aren't going to get shine. But the idea that the characters are gonna get the same amounts of shine, and the idea that people would even be content with that idea is naive. There will always be people who want their fav, there is value in that.

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