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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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3 hours ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Kind of insulting to call the FF OCs.  They've been around since 1993. (92 if you count the mini-series)

 

Honestly the whole mindset that if itd not a game character that modern fans and SEGA seem to have is asinine.  When the cartoons & comics were giving depth and meaning to your character to your franchise years before you were trying to in set games it is pretty telling.

 

The FF and any other characters are just as much "real Sonic characters" as the game characters.  Cause Hell, at the end of the day they are all fictional!

It mostly depends on what they want out of a Sonic comic. Also it's probably because the games stories mostly just focused on Sonic, Tails and Eggman for the past couple of years without really doing much with other characters, they expect it to be that way. For me personally I never really minded the FFs and grew to like em as characters. As long as I got to see Sonic do cool shit and be an asshole once an issue I was happy. 

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2 hours ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Kind of insulting to call the FF OCs.  They've been around since 1993. (92 if you count the mini-series)

 

Honestly the whole mindset that if itd not a game character that modern fans and SEGA seem to have is asinine.  When the cartoons & comics were giving depth and meaning to your character to your franchise years before you were trying to in set games it is pretty telling.

 

The FF and any other characters are just as much "real Sonic characters" as the game characters.  Cause Hell, at the end of the day they are all fictional!

What makes it even more ridiculous to me is that people honestly think there won't be any OCs in this book. Like yeah you can only sustain a plot with the same 15 or so characters for so long before you need to expand the cast.

That's not me calling the Sega characters weak or anything that's basic story telling.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

What makes it even more ridiculous to me is that people honestly think there won't be any OCs in this book. Like yeah you can only sustain a plot with the same 15 or so characters for so long before you need to expand the cast.

That's not me calling the Sega characters weak or anything that's basic story telling.

Especially since, of those 15 characters, the only ones with reason to appear regularly are Tails and maybe Amy (and they were already pretty much always around post-reboot, until Amy joined Knuckles right before Worlds Unite). Knuckles has an island to guard, the Chaotix are detectives for hire who can't only run free hero cases with Sonic, Blaze is from another dimension, Silver is from the future, Rouge is a government agent, Shadow is either also an agent or just a villain depending on what the plot requires, and pretty much everyone else like Big, Mighty, and Tikal are in the scrap bin.

One of the most common complaints about the cast after 06 was that they were being forced in too much when they didn't belong, which is why we got things like Shadow deciding to become a soldier, or Blaze's whole presence in 06. And that's at a rate of one game every 1-3 years. The whole point of keeping the Freedom Fighters around was so Sonic had a wider cast of characters to regularly interact with than his super bestest buddy forever Tails. 

On the subject of revamping the Freedom Fighters and turning them into background characters (ex: turning Sally into a fashion designer for some reason)... I've had a couple weeks to come to terms with it, so I'd rather just see them officially scrapped with dignity than being gutted and turned into a cheap fanservice gimmick like the aforementioned 06 Blaze and Shadow. What's the appeal in Bunnie being a hair stylist instead of a living weapon?

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Personally I felt for a very long time that the SatAM/Archie character cast and the Sonic Team characters didn't really mix good together within the same story. Not that I hate Sally and co at all. I think it would had been nice to see them separated as their own comic series without Sonic & pals and for Sonic Team's characters to continue to have their own comic to themselves. That way nearly everybody would win! But really a huge shame it didn't happen that way and fans of the SatAM/Archie characters will likely never see them again.

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1 hour ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Especially since, of those 15 characters, the only ones with reason to appear regularly are Tails and maybe Amy (and they were already pretty much always around post-reboot, until Amy joined Knuckles right before Worlds Unite). Knuckles has an island to guard, the Chaotix are detectives for hire who can't only run free hero cases with Sonic, Blaze is from another dimension, Silver is from the future, Rouge is a government agent, Shadow is either also an agent or just a villain depending on what the plot requires, and pretty much everyone else like Big, Mighty, and Tikal are in the scrap bin.

One of the most common complaints about the cast after 06 was that they were being forced in too much when they didn't belong, which is why we got things like Shadow deciding to become a soldier, or Blaze's whole presence in 06. And that's at a rate of one game every 1-3 years. The whole point of keeping the Freedom Fighters around was so Sonic had a wider cast of characters to regularly interact with than his super bestest buddy forever Tails. 

On the subject of revamping the Freedom Fighters and turning them into background characters (ex: turning Sally into a fashion designer for some reason)... I've had a couple weeks to come to terms with it, so I'd rather just see them officially scrapped with dignity than being gutted and turned into a cheap fanservice gimmick like the aforementioned 06 Blaze and Shadow. What's the appeal in Bunnie being a hair stylist instead of a living weapon?

Well, you're forgetting the scrap bin denizens were already in the same camp as the FFs, and this move would ditch them all completely.

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For all the people who still want stuff like the FFs and other Sonic cartoon characters to stay in be sure to send letters to IDW. They've already said that they are listening to fan input, we just need to do our part and give them suggestions for what we would like to see out of the comic. Sitting around suggesting ideas is fun, but we also need to be as proactive as possible to get the results that will satisfy readers too.

Here's a neat template made by a passionate fan for what to ask for: https://the-jono-reader.tumblr.com/post/163333435194/attention-sonic-comics-fans
 

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12 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

There was plenty of interaction between the characters. What do you mean it was lacking? Hell there were characters in the reboot that interacted more that they did in the pre-reboot, in more memorable ways at least.

I don't even remember that much interaction happening between the characters in the old continuity. Well, not in the Flynn continuity at least, since he spent a good chunk of it trying to fix the mess the comic was in at the time and setting up a bunch of action and drama packed arcs that really didn't left much space to breath in and just... Chill.

Also it always bothered that when there was time to "chill" it always was with OC characters and almost never game characters. I just don't care you know? It would be nice to just see the game characters chilling without OCs butting in tbh. 

As for the interactions in the main book, most of them were, like BlueSky mentioned, generic lines. There were a few good moments, mostly between Sonic and Antonie, although I might be missing some because I didn't read from 281 onwards (or 282, not sure... I stopped right after that issue where they meet the new Dulcy and her own FF's)

Just to be clear, though, when I ask for more dialogue and interaction, I don't mean a fanfic-ish setting like a off-day in a mall shopping. How about a preparation, a campfire moment, a night before a important attack or defence, where the action will take place in the next issue, perhaps... I don't even know for sure, maybe this format I am wishing is not possible in a comic because I'm getting a bit too used to a cartain manga, which manages to do moments and character exploration like these, and as result, I ended up liking and caring for all protagonists (even almost all neutral characters too) - unlike the FF team situation where I only could care about my long time favorites Tails and Nicole; and also Amy.

 

I'm not sure if the return of the FF's are either good or bad anymore, but for the discussion's sake...should they face a remake and re-appear...

I don't think they need to completely change them, turning into civillians. They could work perfectly still as fighters, but maybe separated from each other and not being part of the main cast. I get the feeling that this union actually works in a detrimental way to these characters after all these years. You have some charcters that are... stuck, not sure how to describe, neither who's to take the blame.

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5 hours ago, SBR2 said:

What makes it even more ridiculous to me is that people honestly think there won't be any OCs in this book. Like yeah you can only sustain a plot with the same 15 or so characters for so long before you need to expand the cast.

That's not me calling the Sega characters weak or anything that's basic story telling.

I don't think anyone thinks that. I think we just understand the old ones aren't coming back and the new ones might be pushed far into the background. 

 

On the point of " who gets to decide who's a real sonic character" well the Sega, and Sega has decided the real sonic characters are the ones they put in games. It isn't specific to the comic, this happened with cartoons as well, if it doesn't show up in a game, its not a real character to them in terms of the larger franchise. That's kinda it really. 

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30 minutes ago, Speedi said:

For all the people who still want stuff like the FFs and other Sonic cartoon characters to stay in be sure to send letters to IDW. They've already said that they are listening to fan input, we just need to do our part and give them suggestions for what we would like to see out of the comic. Sitting around suggesting ideas is fun, but we also need to be as proactive as possible to get the results that will satisfy readers too.

Here's a neat template made by a passionate fan for what to ask for: https://the-jono-reader.tumblr.com/post/163333435194/attention-sonic-comics-fans
 

I'm emailing them every day to keep the FF out if the book and start fresh.. again I'll state it I'd Sega were worried about the ff universe they would have stuck with Archie comics.  Start fresh make new stories instead of shoehorning them in just cause your fond of them. I've been with the Archie comic from issue 0 and honestly any excuse to get a fresh universe is a good thing

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59 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I'm emailing them every day to keep the FF out if the book and start fresh.. again I'll state it I'd Sega were worried about the ff universe they would have stuck with Archie comics.  Start fresh make new stories instead of shoehorning them in just cause your fond of them. I've been with the Archie comic from issue 0 and honestly any excuse to get a fresh universe is a good thing

 

Wow, talk about Toxic & Vile.  Guess the rest of us will have to e-mail them every hour to put the FF in the book to balance out the hate.

 

Maybe the two of us we will annoy IDW enough to make them cancel plans for the comic altogether. :P

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1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

I'm emailing them every day to keep the FF out if the book and start fresh.. again I'll state it I'd Sega were worried about the ff universe they would have stuck with Archie comics.  Start fresh make new stories instead of shoehorning them in just cause your fond of them. I've been with the Archie comic from issue 0 and honestly any excuse to get a fresh universe is a good thing

I think spamming will get you nowhere, they'd probably just not care after few mails. You could even end up getting on their spam list.

And you wouldn't really give a good image about yourself doing that. I suppose one message would suffice. ^_^

12 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

 

Wow, talk about Toxic & Vile.  Guess the rest of us will have to e-mail them every hour to put the FF in the book to balance out the hate.

 

Maybe the two of us we will annoy IDW enough to make them cancel plans for the comic altogether. :P

Just. Dont.

That'd be about as bad. Even if it was a joke, someone might get wrong ideas, you know.

Gee, am I the only one here thinking about the picture I'm going to give to them, thus taking my sweet time tinkering with my "letter"? :huh: Reeaally sweet time alright...

Must be in my "Finnish genes", many of us tend to always think about what others think of us... And mostly those others don't even know we exist at all. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

 

Wow, talk about Toxic & Vile.  Guess the rest of us will have to e-mail them every hour to put the FF in the book to balance out the hate.

 

Maybe the two of us we will annoy IDW enough to make them cancel plans for the comic altogether. :P

Yes those headlines would be hella funny. But no I wont spam them.

Look noting vile behind wanting IDW to start fresh do not get me wrong. I have loved the FF stories for 24 years now. I have the dvd collection and old vhs tapes of sally and the gang. I loved nicoles new look as well. But even so I would enjoy seeing a new universe created its like a fresh clean slate for them instead of just oh lets just continue the same tale these other guys were making and the character backings. And to say Amy would dissapear is silly, she was in the games.

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5 hours ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

On the subject of revamping the Freedom Fighters and turning them into background characters (ex: turning Sally into a fashion designer for some reason)... I've had a couple weeks to come to terms with it, so I'd rather just see them officially scrapped with dignity than being gutted and turned into a cheap fanservice gimmick like the aforementioned 06 Blaze and Shadow. What's the appeal in Bunnie being a hair stylist instead of a living weapon?

Yeah, I can't blame you here. I think you could use them as recurring (but not main) characters without changing them that drastically though, so I'm not sure why that was suggested in the first place.

Kingdoms exist in Sonic, Sally could easily still be a princess. Lost World established that anthros can be turned into badniks, so Bunnie could still work (in fact, in theory a new origin story for her could be closer to her old one than post-reboot's take). The others are all mostly straightforward too...the only issue I could see is maybe Nicole, I can't think of anything in the main Sonic 'verse that's quite like her, but then again she's not even close to being as out there as the weirdest shit in the games, so...*shrug*

Mind you I'd be open minded to them being changed drastically, it's just that I don't think it would be necessary at all. The only thing related to them I'd want changed is Sonic being "tied down" to them. They're cool characters (imo), but we don't need to see them constantly (also imo), same with anyone in the cast really. Bring 'em in for stories that need 'em, no more no less.

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Well when I was talking about nice memorable interactions I was thinking of Sally and Nicole and Amy and Knuckles. And pretty much all of the Champions arc too. Those were pretty nice interactions between the characters. I wanna see more stuff like that. When I said I was annoying by the way "chill" interaections happened in the pre-reboot I meant stuff like Sonic and pals going to freakin'.... High School and drinking milkshakes in a shakehut. Like I know they're teenagers but come on. And with "OC's" butting in I meant Mina. Just Mina in general. I don't hate her but that is the prime example of the kind of OC we don't need to see again. 

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22 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I'm emailing them every day to keep the FF out if the book and start fresh.. again I'll state it I'd Sega were worried about the ff universe they would have stuck with Archie comics.  Start fresh make new stories instead of shoehorning them in just cause your fond of them. I've been with the Archie comic from issue 0 and honestly any excuse to get a fresh universe is a good thing

This makes absolutely no sense.

Keeping the FF doesn't prevent them from starting fresh in a new direction, so why the heavy urge to keep them out rather than start fresh with them along for the ride? It would be no different with them doing so for any other character.

Not to mention that Sega ditched Archie because they were screwing up with the comic given the lawsuits and a few other factors.

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I'm pretty apprehensive to whether the FF should be in or not. I adore Sally Acorn (especially her friendship with Amy! Friendship goals) and I'd love to have her as a major character, and I also love Bunnie Rabbot. But outside of that... I don't really like that much of anyone else, being honest. I forgot Rotor existed, not gonna lie. The Archie character I also really wanna see again is Fiona Fox (her ending Tails' life... yes mom). 

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7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

This makes absolutely no sense.

Keeping the FF doesn't prevent them from starting fresh in a new direction, so why the heavy urge to keep them out rather than start fresh with them along for the ride? It would be no different with them doing so for any other character.

Not to mention that Sega ditched Archie because they were screwing up with the comic given the lawsuits and a few other factors.

And those lawsuits revolved around character rights. And ken douchbag lenders.

You could start with them yes you could put bunnie. Roter. Nicole. Etc etc right back into a new comic series again. Honestly I'd like to see a new cast of characters with sonic. Honestly the only reason some people are upset is cause for 24 years that s all they knew and you

try and change that of course some would be upsetting.

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On the subject of sonic being tied down, the other reason I had an issue with it is because I feel like. Lets say hypothetically the FF still exist, if they were just extra characters... they could interact with a whole host of characters that aren't sonic in interesting ways. Having sonic being around kind of colors the conversation potential. But if the FF were reworked instead of sonic's team but a team that just existed and popped up from time to time just made of these archie characters it would make for more interesting and charming scenarios

Example, what if sally had to go to angel island because she wanted to be an ambassador of sorts and Knuckles and Her just... didn't get along and we got a story about that, or on that same ambassador note maybe to blaze's world, you could get interesting interactions, maybe blaze is somene she ends up looking up to she's this princess who can quite literally do bad all by herself. It would be moments like these that would make things more interesting, sonic always being around wasn't just making sonic less interesting but the FF's as well. 

I think I mentioned this before, is that I believe that one of the most interesting potential comic book series for sonic would be a hypothetical arc where a sonic-less FF had to go on a mission with team dark. Things would be said, it would be amazing. 

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5 minutes ago, rosedust said:

I'm pretty apprehensive to whether the FF should be in or not. I adore Sally Acorn (especially her friendship with Amy! Friendship goals) and I'd love to have her as a major character, and I also love Bunnie Rabbot. But outside of that... I don't really like that much of anyone else, being honest. I forgot Rotor existed, not gonna lie. The Archie character I also really wanna see again is Fiona Fox (her ending Tails' life... yes mom). 

I personally loathe Fiona and most of the Anti-gang characters. I understand why they're popular, but still. Just not my taste.

Frankly as far as Archie characters I only care about Sally and Nicole and Bunnie to a lesser extend. But if I had to pick? Sally and Nicole for sure. 

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

On the subject of sonic being tied down, the other reason I had an issue with it is because I feel like. Lets say hypothetically the FF still exist, if they were just extra characters... they could interact with a whole host of characters that aren't sonic in interesting ways. Having sonic being around kind of colors the conversation potential. But if the FF were reworked instead of sonic's team but a team that just existed and popped up from time to time just made of these archie characters it would make for more interesting and charming scenarios

Example, what if sally had to go to angel island because she wanted to be an ambassador of sorts and Knuckles and Her just... didn't get along and we got a story about that, or on that same ambassador note maybe to blaze's world, you could get interesting interactions, maybe blaze is somene she ends up looking up to she's this princess who can quite literally do bad all by herself. It would be moments like these that would make things more interesting, sonic always being around wasn't just making sonic less interesting but the FF's as well. 

I think I mentioned this before, is that I believe that one of the most interesting potential comic book series for sonic would be a hypothetical arc where a sonic-less FF had to go on a mission with team dark. Things would be said, it would be amazing. 

This, I always adore interactions between Team Dark and characters like Amy/Knuckles/etc. I bought the arc of Sonic Universe with them just for that! Lol. 

Just now, RictalRose0 said:

I personally loathe Fiona and most of the Anti-gang characters. I understand why they're popular, but still. Just not my taste.

Frankly as far as Archie characters I only care about Sally and Nicole and Bunnie to a lesser extend. But if I had to pick? Sally and Nicole for sure. 

Yeah I understand. Fiona to me is just epic... I love her arc so much. It'd be finished off to me if she flipped back to the good side after she realizes Scourge is a garbage being, but her current standing is also fine for me.

And totally, Salcole for sure. It's kind of sad that they were planning to take that interaction somewhere bigger and then it got cancelled. 

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27 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

And those lawsuits revolved around character rights. And ken douchbag lenders.

Of which you know full well the FF and anyone post-reboot aren't a part of since Sega owns everything that survived the Second Genesis Wave. 

So again, the logic of keeping the FF out in order to start fresh makes no sense when they can do that with the FF with no problems should Sega be okay with them. So why this strong urge to have them barred?

 

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Again noting wrong with them but we had them 24 years.  Why not add new characters that could show up in games. I doubt rotirsever going to be i a game going forward

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37 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Again noting wrong with them but we had them 24 years. 

So what? We've had the whole damn game cast for 26 years (or less depending on debut) and counting.  How the hell is that a point against the FF to justify barring them from coming back with a fresh start with the other characters? Are you just not capable of answering this simple question?

Quote

Why not add new characters that could show up in games. I doubt rotirsever going to be i a game going forward

Again, how does having new characters that could show up in games require the FF to stay out? Archie was able to have almost every character in the games bar a very small few in the same comic with them. This isn't impossible to do with them again in the off chance that they actually come back in this new comic.

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