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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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3 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

So which issue will bring in “Whisper”, again? Stoked to meet her.

I'm kinda suspecting this Whisper character is an expy to Phage,  and may be that character in the chair. 

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24 minutes ago, jgcatindig said:

I'm kinda suspecting this Whisper character is an expy to Phage,  and may be that character in the chair. 

Nope. Ian said there will be one more heroic character for the year, and he said Whisper is that character. Plus, she's even stated to be a "Guardian Angel". IDK how she'd be a villain.

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3 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

I think he would, since even if Eggman is still evil, Sonic (and any other character with a sense of empathy) would perceive the idea of killing an incapacitated Eggman to be wrong. Heck, Eggman does not even need to be incapacitated for Sonic to think that killing the doc is a rather harsh way to punish him, like he points out in Rush.

Anyway, while Shadow does have a point with how losing memories do not make people any less dangerous, which he does speak from experience, he seems to forget that people can change. After all, he was on the bad guys side on his very first appearance and did a lot of bad stuff too. Maybe Eggman's character would stay the same, and it would show up... but with the loss of memory, maybe he also forgets all about his ambitions tat caused him to take the wrong path in life and looks for other more constructive and beneficial ways to get the attention that he so craves and desires. 

Shadow going after Eggman like that is a sure way to cause the doc to return to his evil ways, asuming that he isn't faking his memory loss. We'll just have to see how things are played out.

Shadow and Eggmans situations aren't really comparable because eggman has never earned the benfit of doubt. So to try position that as, " Shadow seems to forget people can change " would be intellectually dishonest. Shadow knows people can change, he's friends with two of them. He doesn't trust eggman can change, and for good reason. And odds are he's gonna be right. And to try and put eggman and shadow on the same level is dishonest.

I think it would be better for the plot if it was positioned as, shadow coming off as scary, scaring the children he has helped and they come to protect him from shadow. And then shadow backs down. If you try to position eggman as morally equal to most anyone in the series its gonna come off intellectually dishonest. But if you make shadow look like the bad guy, or a monster ( especially considering the last most of these people have seen of shadow is not realy versions of him murdering everything ) you get shadow to back down because he has issues with that. And when eggman eventually does go evil again, you can deal with that, when you get to it. 

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4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Shadow and Eggmans situations aren't really comparable because eggman has never earned the benfit of doubt. So to try position that as, " Shadow seems to forget people can change " would be intellectually dishonest. Shadow knows people can change, he's friends with two of them. He doesn't trust eggman can change, and for good reason. And odds are he's gonna be right. And to try and put eggman and shadow on the same level is dishonest.

I think it would be better for the plot if it was positioned as, shadow coming off as scary, scaring the children he has helped and they come to protect him from shadow. And then shadow backs down. If you try to position eggman as morally equal to most anyone in the series its gonna come off intellectually dishonest. But if you make shadow look like the bad guy, or a monster ( especially considering the last most of these people have seen of shadow is not realy versions of him murdering everything ) you get shadow to back down because he has issues with that. And when eggman eventually does go evil again, you can deal with that, when you get to it. 

Given how Shadow was more than willing at one point to commit genocide by a colony drop, yeah... I don't think Shadow has any kind of moral high ground to be calling the shots regarding Eggman's fate, particularly an Eggman that lost his memory (again, assuming that it is real and not him faking it) and who would be confused as of why this black hedgehog is coming at him with not so good intentions. 

Of course Eggman would never change. He can't at least permanently because it's what he is for the franchise, just like how Shadow in the franchise is this character willing to take very drastic meassures and like Rouge says, is pretty stubborn to listen to what others have to say. This is why he is going to come to blows with Sonic, just like he did with Knuckles in Universe, because of his darn inhability to listen. Heck, the conflict isn't even about who is right or wrong, but about doing the right thing, and IMO giving Eggman the chance to change, as unlikely as that is, and I dunno, forgive him is something that is going to take much more courage than whatever Shadow is willing to do with him.

So yeah, I'm with Sonic on this.

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4 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

Given how Shadow was more than willing at one point to commit genocide by a colony drop, yeah... I don't think Shadow has any kind of moral high ground to be calling the shots regarding Eggman's fate, particularly an Eggman that lost his memory (again, assuming that it is real and not him faking it) and who would be confused as of why this black hedgehog is coming at him with not so good intentions. 

Of course Eggman would never change. He can't at least permanently because it's what he is for the franchise, just like how Shadow in the franchise is this character willing to take very drastic meassures and like Rouge says, is pretty stubborn to listen to what others have to say. This is why he is going to come to blows with Sonic, just like he did with Knuckles in Universe, because of his darn inhability to listen. Heck, the conflict isn't even about who is right or wrong, but about doing the right thing, and IMO giving Eggman the chance to change, as unlikely as that is, and I dunno, forgive him is something that is going to take much more courage than whatever Shadow is willing to do with him.

So yeah, I'm with Sonic on this.

Agreed with those last few lines.

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11 hours ago, Razule said:

Wait, is Shadow actually trying to kill Eggman here?

Yeah he is straight up trying to murder him in cold blood. There's no real if's, and's or but's about this.

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2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Given how Shadow was more than willing at one point to commit genocide by a colony drop, yeah... I don't think Shadow has any kind of moral high ground to be calling the shots regarding Eggman's fate, particularly an Eggman that lost his memory (again, assuming that it is real and not him faking it) and who would be confused as of why this black hedgehog is coming at him with not so good intentions. 

He does. 

Shadow was having his memories manipulated. The entire plot of sonic adventure 2 relies on the fact that Gerald basically messed with shadows mind before they or during ( WHEN THIS HAPPENS IS EXTREMELY CONFUSING ) the time shadow was in the pod.And when shadow realizes this at the end of the game, what does he do?

He sacrifices his life

Every sing time, that shadow is operating on his own faculties , shadow does the right thing. Shadow will even try to give his own life, he will murder what his essentially a chance at having a family to do the right thing. He will continue to fight with an organization that try and to occasionally capture and restrain him to do the right thing. 

Every time shadow is making his own choices, he does the right thing. Shadow has earned that benfit of the doubt

Eggman? The only time you can get eggman to do good is if the world is gonna explode and he has no part in it. That's it. There is no memory manipulation or he wasn't in control of his faculties. He has time and again, made the choice to be while entertaining, a super villian.

These are not comparable. And it would be strait up dishonest to try and make someone who was having his mind messed with, to someone who was actively making a choice. " Oh man the winter solider and the punisher are basically the same character " No that's not how that works.

Quote

Of course Eggman would never change. He can't at least permanently because it's what he is for the franchise, just like how Shadow in the franchise is this character willing to take very drastic meassures and like Rouge says, is pretty stubborn to listen to what others have to say. This is why he is going to come to blows with Sonic, just like he did with Knuckles in Universe, because of his darn inhability to listen. Heck, the conflict isn't even about who is right or wrong, but about doing the right thing, and IMO giving Eggman the chance to change, as unlikely as that is, and I dunno, forgive him is something that is going to take much more courage than whatever Shadow is willing to do with him.

So yeah, I'm with Sonic on this.

Eh, I think shadow playing judge jury and executioner in general isn't a good thing and a good flaw for his character to have.

THAT SAID

This isn't a he can change thing, at least that we know of. Its a " he lost his memory thing " .  Like if eggman strait up was like " I wanna change my ways I went too far " I would be with that more than this. Shadow is a Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few kinda guy, and well eggman is just quite literally a ticking time bomb, and if he ever regains his memory, this is a problem. And you can't be like "Well we though he could change, were sorry " as everyone in that village gets turned into robot fuel. Sorry doesn't fix that , you know what does though. Putting eggman in a jail, shadow doesn't have to kill.But if shadow is willing to put eggman in a cell I am 100% behind shadow. Eggman is danger. Who when in complete control of his decisions will do the wrong thing. He has no interest in forgiveness he has interest in protecting the most people possible and thats with eggman in a cell. ( or in the ground ). If he's willing to do the fomer, then I have to side with shadow

Your forgiveness means nothing, when people are in danger. Put him in a cell. 

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11 hours ago, Razule said:

Wait, is Shadow actually trying to kill Eggman here?

Honestly, I'm pseudo-convinced he was just gonna either haul Eggman off or pull a Lara-Su on him.

Again, d

epends on what's driving and/or motivating him.

9 hours ago, jgcatindig said:

I'm kinda suspecting this Whisper character is an expy to Phage,  and may be that character in the chair. 

Didn't Mr. Flynn say she was supposed to be a hero?

9 hours ago, Ellipsis-Ultima said:

And another cover done by Yardley! as well, but it's the raw version.

tumblr_pajt1tnDxw1spyn8vo4_1280.jpg

That one looks pretty freaking cool.

I'm glad they're getting really stylistic with some of these covers.

9 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Rouge literally looks like her body is an hour glass....ew.

 It's ticking like a clock!

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24 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

He does. 

Shadow was having his memories manipulated. The entire plot of sonic adventure 2 relies on the fact that Gerald basically messed with shadows mind before they or during ( WHEN THIS HAPPENS IS EXTREMELY CONFUSING ) the time shadow was in the pod.And when shadow realizes this at the end of the game, what does he do?

He sacrifices his life

Every sing time, that shadow is operating on his own faculties , shadow does the right thing. Shadow will even try to give his own life, he will murder what his essentially a chance at having a family to do the right thing. He will continue to fight with an organization that try and to occasionally capture and restrain him to do the right thing. 

Every time shadow is making his own choices, he does the right thing. Shadow has earned that benfit of the doubt

Eggman? The only time you can get eggman to do good is if the world is gonna explode and he has no part in it. That's it. There is no memory manipulation or he wasn't in control of his faculties. He has time and again, made the choice to be while entertaining, a super villian.

These are not comparable. And it would be strait up dishonest to try and make someone who was having his mind messed with, to someone who was actively making a choice. " Oh man the winter solider and the punisher are basically the same character " No that's not how that works.

Eh, I think shadow playing judge jury and executioner in general isn't a good thing and a good flaw for his character to have.

THAT SAID

This isn't a he can change thing, at least that we know of. Its a " he lost his memory thing " .  Like if eggman strait up was like " I wanna change my ways I went too far " I would be with that more than this. Shadow is a Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few kinda guy, and well eggman is just quite literally a ticking time bomb, and if he ever regains his memory, this is a problem. And you can't be like "Well we though he could change, were sorry " as everyone in that village gets turned into robot fuel. Sorry doesn't fix that , you know what does though. Putting eggman in a jail, shadow doesn't have to kill.But if shadow is willing to put eggman in a cell I am 100% behind shadow. Eggman is danger. Who when in complete control of his decisions will do the wrong thing. He has no interest in forgiveness he has interest in protecting the most people possible and thats with eggman in a cell. ( or in the ground ). If he's willing to do the fomer, then I have to side with shadow

Your forgiveness means nothing, when people are in danger. Put him in a cell. 

It has been shown in other comics and media that Eggman cannot be locked up for long. He always finds a way to escape. 

 

1. Sonic the Comic - broken out by Knuckles. 

2. Archie Sonic #200ish - goes nuts and is incarcerated. Regains faculties soon afterwards. 

3. Sonic X - creates hacking devices in jail. Eventually breaks out. 

 

They keep forgetting that Eggman has a 300+ IQ. Maybe next time, they'll stick an inhibitor on him. IDW-wise, looks like the Sonic version of Civil War is brewing.

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4 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

It has been shown in other comics and media that Eggman cannot be locked up for long. He always finds a way to escape. 

 

1. Sonic the Comic - broken out by Knuckles. 

2. Archie Sonic #200ish - goes nuts and is incarcerated. Regains faculties soon afterwards. 

3. Sonic X - creates hacking devices in jail. Eventually breaks out. 

Even still there was attempt to restrain him. Much like knuckles with the M.E you can't just leave him out in the open air, and then stuff happens and be like " Oooops " . " Well we had the courage to let him do what he wanted to do " No, put the emerald in a facility, Put eggman, in jail

4 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

 

They keep forgetting that Eggman has a 300+ IQ. Maybe next time, they'll stick an inhibitor on him. IDW-wise, looks like the Sonic version of Civil War is brewing.

Using mind altering devices to keep someone prison is another whole moral quandary that I don' think sonic is ready to explore on a deep level.

I don't think that's sonic version of civil war, i think this will end quickly. Though that sounds incredibly interesting. 

 

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14 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

They keep forgetting that Eggman has a 300+ IQ. Maybe next time, they'll stick an inhibitor on him. 

That's actually a pretty good question. If Eggman(or Dr. Nega) were incarcerated by the Zone Cops, would the Inhibitor's [remotely] affect their intelligence?

14 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

. IDW-wise, looks like the Sonic version of Civil War is brewing.

Heh.

What would that look like, though?

 

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Well, look no further than the recent Injustice series. Where friendships got skewed and former villains turned back on their villain ways and joined the heroes. If this happens, its pretty clear who's who. Shadow would take Regime Superman(bonus points for being alien himself) and Sonic will be Insurgency Batman. Bonus points for Rouge potentially being Regime Wonder Woman.

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15 minutes ago, jgcatindig said:

Well, look no further than the recent Injustice series. Where friendships got skewed and former villains turned back on their villain ways and joined the heroes. If this happens, its pretty clear who's who. Shadow would take Regime Superman(bonus points for being alien himself) and Sonic will be Insurgency Batman. Bonus points for Rouge potentially being Regime Wonder Woman.

I don't think shadow would take regime at all?

Shadow would 100% be on batman's side. Shadow doesn't think you should kill all criminals and end all crimes. He's friends with a criminal, and a murderous robot. He does think that in this situation, the person is dangerous. Don't take shadow handling this situation as some larger scope of how he does things. He's not gonna kill some random criminal, he'll beat em up and say an edgy line then leave. 

And as a guy who's afraid of his own power, you don't think he would see superman and go " Nope nope, none of this nope. Neither me , him or anyone else should be lord god emperor nope" 

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1 hour ago, jgcatindig said:

 Bonus points for Rouge potentially being Regime Wonder Woman.

That's funny way of spelling Knuckles.

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think shadow would take regime at all?

 

@jgcatindig Yeah, gonna have to side with laxative here. 

The whole point of the Insurgency is that Superman is a symbol of hope, broken by the Joker and descended into templarism. 

You can't really get that with Shadow, who is a brooding antihero that the the government and possibly the people hated before and are apparently not too slow to turn on him when things go to shit.

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4 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

That's funny way of spelling Knuckles.

@RedFox99Yeah, gonna have to side with laxative here. 

The whole point of the Insurgency is that Superman is a symbol of hope, broken by the Joker and descended into templarism. 

You can't really get that with Shadow, who is a brooding antihero that the the government and possibly the people hated before and are apparently not too slow to turn on him when things go to shit.

Also one, in general. Knuckles is totally wonder woman at all times. Good comparison. Even has a magical island. 

Two I don't think there are a lot of characters in sonic who would get regimed up , if given the option to be honest. I think its just kinda the nature of the franchise? They are constantly fighting against one. Not saying absolute power can corrupt absolutely , but the value of freedom is something they are quite familiar with

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also one, in general. Knuckles is totally wonder woman at all times. Good comparison. Even has a magical island. 

Thanks!

I was just tryin to think of who the Big #3 is in this series compared to the Hedgehog rivals and skimmed past Scourge & Tails before deciding on Rad Red.

7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Two I don't think there are a lot of characters in sonic who would get regimed up , if given the option to be honest. I think its just kinda the nature of the franchise? They are constantly fighting against one. Not saying absolute power can corrupt absolutely , but the value of freedom is something they are quite familiar with

Fair point. 

Granted, you'd inevitably have to take what's motivating Sonic in that instance into account as well, but it is a bit of a struggle beyond the obvious three.

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Thanks!

I was just tryin to think of who the Big #3 is in this series compared to the Hedgehog rivals and skimmed past Scourge & Tails before deciding on Rad Red.

I think the sonic to DC comparison is weird?

Like I don't think sonic is superman, he's the flash. And I guess you could compare tails to batman, but he's more like Tim Drake robin than the batman. So I guess the big three in the sonic universe is , The flash, robin 3, and Wonder woman. 

The closest superman comparison, weirdly enough I can see is like shadow? But even then, its more similar to super boy's backstory than superman.

I guess scourge is reverse flash?

Is Silver Green lantern? This is interesting to think about. 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow just doesn't like Sonics guts, hence forth fight to the death. I wish writers just admitted shadow and knuckles hate sonic but respect him as rivals.

Uhhh... Knuckles hasn't hated Sonic since SK&3. He may be annoyed with him sometimes, but he doesn't HATE him. I don't know what you're on about.

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