Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Meta77]

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

We've had the whole damn game cast for 26 years (or less depending on debut) and counting. What the hell does how the FF have been around have anything to do with barring them from coming back with a fresh start with the other characters? Are you just not capable of answering this simple question?

Again, how does having new characters that could show up in games require the FF to stay out? Archie was able to have almost every character in the games bar a very small few in the same comic with them. This isn't impossible to do with them again.

Because I'd like new stories with new characters to build upon.

Why do you feel they Have to be in the story even as background characters??

[rosedust]

We need this fashion icon back to serve more anthropomorphic realness.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

40 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Because I'd like new stories with new characters to build upon.

And others would rather they save plenty of time and effort using the dozens of characters that they already have at this point that Sega owns instead of once again making entirely new OCs to supplant older ones--we had enough of that shit in the games, and it's amazing that the opposite is being entertained here.

And even then, that still doesn't answer my question.

So let me ask you again: how does that require the FF to stay out? What requires these hypotetical new characters to have so much attention that the FF can't join along with the rest of the game cast?

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Why do you feel they Have to be in the story even as background characters??

Where exactly did I say that? Because if you actually read my posts, I never did.

But I'll humor you and actually answer this: for one, I don't feel they have to be in the story, no more than that of characters like Knuckles, Blaze, or the Chaotix, for example. But I want these characters to stay because they are (or I'd like for them to be) already available and already have plenty of work made from the get-go to take part in any adventures they are able to take part in much the same way the old longtime cast has been able to. This is a habit of Sonic Team to just throw characters away or ignore their aspects "just because"  when these characters can bring just as much to the table as any other in the hands of a capable writer. They don't have to show up as the central characters as they were in Archie, but I'd like to see them take action and be relevant given that, like the game cast, I grew up with these characters--who the hell wouldn't want something they like to stay relevant and adapt? And before you or anyone else starts, it's not impossible for them to do. And like the game cast, they could benefit from a fresh start instead of having them take a chance with new characters that people may or may not like--I'd say it's far safer to do this with older, familiar characters (even if some aren't fans of them) than to do this with newer characters that at this point have a much bigger challenge of getting fans to like them by comparison given the initial negative attitudes they will automatically have given the bad habit of this happening in the games.

So barring the possibility of Sega being stubborn and saying "no" to any ilk of their presence, how does any of this require that the FF should be barred from jumping ship into this new fresh start? Why the strong urge against them being brought when everything you've said can still be done with them along for the ride for a fresh new start as well?

[Meta77]

I have noting against them . I love them. But I also like new characters.  Yes sonic teams bad at remembering characters but honestly Sonics never had a freefliwing story. I just would like to see something new being behind new artist and writers. I

[antyep]

So does that mean we have to get rid of every character, except Sonic, Eggman, and maybe Tails, to have a new story?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I have noting against them . I love them. But I also like new characters.  Yes sonic teams bad at remembering characters but honestly Sonics never had a freefliwing story. I just would like to see something new being behind new artist and writers. I

Okay, but can you at least answer my question? I've asked several times and I still haven't gotten a straight answer that actually made any sense over how any of that requires barring the FF from being in the book.

[Meta77]

58 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Okay, but can you at least answer my question? I've asked several times and I still haven't gotten a straight answer that actually made any sense over how any of that requires barring the FF from being in the book.

It does not require barring them from the book. I just do not see a overall need for them honestly. I am not sure what you want me to say lol

1 hour ago, antyep said:

So does that mean we have to get rid of every character, except Sonic, Eggman, and maybe Tails, to have a new story?

Yes and no. It means start fresh add new people. Sega is good at characters, they are bad at using/remembering them. Ghost girl, marlina, mephiles, princess sara, silver, honey, they have a decent starting list. thing is sega litearlly forgets they exist 96% of the time.

[RictalRose0]

2 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

So what? We've had the whole damn game cast for 26 years (or less depending on debut) and counting.  How the hell is that a point against the FF to justify barring them from coming back with a fresh start with the other characters? Are you just not capable of answering this simple question?

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To be fair it's not exactly as if they have all always been featured. And also they only really started talking when the Adventure series came around. So if you wanna play that card, it's more like, 17 or 18 years that they've been around as the characters we know. And then some of them were introduced a few years later like Blaze, Silver, Omega, Cream, Babylon Rogues, etc. 

Also, we haven't really seen the characters again in any way that matters since like, Sonic Colors? So you know, I don't think this is a fair comparison for the game characters.

Also, Videgames =/= Comics/Cartoons

2 hours ago, rosedust said:

We need this fashion icon back to serve more anthropomorphic realness.

I always hated the semi-realistic Sally as well as the other weirdly proportioned characters in the Pre-Reboot. It was so clashing with the style of Sonic and the other game characters. I much prefer the reboot style. Also, that second Sally looks like she's wearing a diaper and just looks very wonky in general (Yes I know it's an old fan design but still)

[rosedust]

2 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

To be fair it's not exactly as if they have all always been featured. And also they only really started talking when the Adventure series came around. So if you wanna play that card, it's more like, 17 or 18 years that they've been around as the characters we know. And then some of them were introduced a few years later like Blaze, Silver, Omega, Cream, Babylon Rogues, etc. 

Also, we haven't really seen the characters again in any way that matters since like, Sonic Colors? So you know, I don't think this is a fair comparison for the game characters.

Also, Videgames =/= Comics/Cartoons

I always hated the semi-realistic Sally as well as the other weirdly proportioned characters in the Pre-Reboot. It was so clashing with the style of Sonic and the other game characters. I much prefer the reboot style. Also, that second Sally looks like she's wearing a diaper and just looks very wonky in general.

I prefer her post-reboot look too.

[Korke]

1 hour ago, rosedust said:

I prefer her post-reboot look too.

It's true that the post-reboot look is better than the furry-esque mess we had in the past, but I think it could had been better. She lost her eyes and the head structure became too much of a canine/feline model... That's kinda uncreative...

 

2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Yes and no. It means start fresh add new people. Sega is good at characters, they are bad at using/remembering them. Ghost girl, marlina, mephiles, princess sara, silver, honey, they have a decent starting list. thing is sega litearlly forgets they exist 96% of the time.

Allow me to fix some things right there... Honey's personality was not created by ST, neither Princess Sara. In fact she doesn't even belong to SEGA at all.

And, Mephiles being a good character? What???

[Polkadi~☆]

24 minutes ago, Korke said:

Allow me to fix some things right there... Honey's personality was not created by ST, neither Princess Sara. In fact she doesn't even belong to SEGA at all.

If SEGA does not own Honey, why was she allowed to appear in the rerelease of Sonic the Fighters, and appear a few times in the Archie comics?

[RictalRose0]

36 minutes ago, Korke said:

And, Mephiles being a good character? What???

Well I like him. In concept you know. In execution? Ehhh, could have been done a lot better. At least he was a decent foil to Shadow. But with Sonic it was just like. Boom, you're dead. And Sonic didn't even know who the heck Mephiles was...

Then again I quite like Elise as well. People seem to be rather harsh on the Sonic 06 characters but honestly they weren't that bad...

39 minutes ago, Korke said:

Allow me to fix some things right there... Honey's personality was not created by ST, neither Princess Sara. In fact she doesn't even belong to SEGA at all.

 

The point Meta was trying to make is that SEGA actually has a very large stock of Sonic Characters they could use if they wanted to fill spots in a comic or something. It's just that they tend to forget they exist, or refuse to use them due to one reason or another. 

[Korke]

4 hours ago, Polkadi said:

If SEGA does not own Honey, why was she allowed to appear in the rerelease of Sonic the Fighters, and appear a few times in the Archie comics?

Hence the word"personality", not character. The character was a empty cameo husk from another game, which Ian gave life.

[leemour84]

Just a question.

Now that IDW will more likely have a new slate....

Does this mean we could see The Dark Brotherhood (aka The Nocturne Clan)

In the comics? Or will the A-Hole wanna sue and be a dick again?I 

Edited August 3, 2017 by leemour84
Spelling

[Polkadi~☆]

2 minutes ago, leemour84 said:

Just a question.

Now that IDW will more likely have a new slate....

Does this mean we could see The Dark Brotherhood (aka The Nocturne Clan)

In the comics? Or will the A-Hole wanna sue and be a dick again?I 

Thanks to him, the Dark Brotherhood is off-limits, period.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Actually they're not off-limits. Not technically at least, Archie just didn't want to take any chances and have him on their tail for using its material.

3 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

To be fair it's not exactly as if they have all always been featured. And also they only really started talking when the Adventure series came around. So if you wanna play that card, it's more like, 17 or 18 years that they've been around as the characters we know. And then some of them were introduced a few years later like Blaze, Silver, Omega, Cream, Babylon Rogues, etc. 

Also, we haven't really seen the characters again in any way that matters since like, Sonic Colors? So you know, I don't think this is a fair comparison for the game characters.

Not sure what them talking has anything to do with my point, but I'm pretty sure I covered the other characters when I "or less depending on debut," dude. That's still besides my point.

And it hardly matters they weren't present for up to 3 games since Colors. That's not that big a gap in their appearances, nor does that neglect other characters that have mattered for as long such as Tails. So that's not the best counterpoint.

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Also, Videgames =/= Comics/Cartoons

No one here made that comparisonz

[RictalRose0]

20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That's not that big a gap in their appearances

It's been seven years since Colors. And I just said since Adventure is when they started talking the characters have only really been around for 17 or so years. But if you take from that the years since Colors, they have only really been featured in relevant roles for like 10 years. From 1999 to 2009. And there's been a lot more that 3 games since 2010 too.  

20 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

No one here made that comparisonz

Then why are you comparing prominence in games to prominence in comics? You know comics and videogames are completely different mediums. Comics are all about story, dialogue and visuals. Whereas Games tend to focus a lot more on you know, Gameplay. That often doesn't leave the characters with much chances to speak or for a large intricate story to take place. Of course there are the exceptions like the Adventure games that were story heavy or Sonic Chronicles since it was an RPG, but generally the comics have been allowed to go wild when it comes to story and dialogue far more that the games.

Look all i'm saying is, 25 years of comics for the Archie characters are not at all comparable to 10 or so years of games for the game characters.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

It's been seven years since Colors. And I just said since Adventure is when they started talking the characters have only really been around for 17 or so years. But if you take from that the years since Colors, they have only really been featured in relevant roles for like 10 years. From 1999 to 2009. And there's been a lot more that 3 games since 2010 too.  

And that still has nothing to do with my point...

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Then why are you comparing prominence in games to prominence in comics?

What part of anything I said mentioned anything about prominence? All I said was that we've had the game cast around for 26 years (or less given the time they've debut) in response to Meta77 point of the FF being around for 24 and how that was a reason for something new and why the FF should stay out of this new book. It had nothing to do with how prominent they've been.

You weren't paying any attention to what was being said dude.

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Look all i'm saying is, 25 years of comics for the Archie characters are not at all comparable to 10 or so years of games for the game characters.

So basically you're splitting hairs and going on a tangent, because that still doesn't address the initial point I made from the start.

[Korke]

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And that still has nothing to do with my point...

What part of anything I said mentioned anything about prominence? All I said was that we've had the game cast around for 26 years (or less given the time they've debut) in response to Meta77 point of the FF being around for 24 and how that was a reason for something new.

You weren't paying any attention to what was being said dude.

So basically you're splitting hairs...

 

If the FF's must be vaporized because they can't be explored (which I know it's not true, I'm just following their line of thought) so, I guess we should get rid of characters like Tails too, since his development arc has been finished in SA1 and never had a new one to work with...

[RictalRose0]

Well mostly that Meta does have a point. Those characters have been around for a long time. For almost 290 issues plus some of the Sonic Universe ones plus all the other cancelled series. We have explored so much with them. They have been featured a lot they have had a lot of screen time, a lot of dialogue. I'm not saying "scrape them" no. Just because they have been used to death doesn't mean new life can't be breathed unto them. A new series could put a whole new spin on them. Hell we never really explored much of them outside of Sally and Nicole in the reboot and those two were really interesing, so maybe whatever the Reboot planned to do with the other three could have been great as well. They were different from their pre-reboot counterparts yet similiar enough to still be the same characters, Sally and Nicole that is.

My point is that your comparison just isn't fair. We haven't actually seem much of the game characters outside of the core characters. Sonic, Tails, Eggman and to an extent, Shadow and Knuckles. Everyone else is still such a mistery. They have so much potential and yet they've been barely used in any way that really matters. Why would I want to replace these characters with newer ones when we've barely got to really know them and explore them and give them time to shine? And yet the Games have already kind of done that.

Every new game since Colors has been neglecting the game cast in favor of introducing newer characters, and yet they give no chance to those new characters to developt before they jump to a new game and forget about them. It's such a mess that now that I really think about it if SEGA wants to manage the comics the way they do their games we might indeed not see the FF's or any of the new reboot characters. Why would they, when even their games ignore their own characters, lore and world these days?

But with Mania and Forces there might be hope for the comics. Yes the games do look like a bunch of pandering. Mania to the classic fans and Forces to... Everyone. But at least it shows SEGA is finally willing to remember they have a vast and memorable cast of characters and a very diverse, colorful world that they have been neglecting.

Maybe the new comics, much like Forces or Mania, could bring back the old elements from the comics (And by that I mean the FF's because everyone else is a lost case) so as to pander to all the demographics. Who knows.

[BlueSky]

Yeah of course someone's always getting upset over something.

The thing is, how much they want to take risks with this ”new direction”.

Bussiness is always risky, they really need to think how they should go with it to seel the comics.

Probably because of this they're ”listening the fans very closely”...

 

13 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Because I'd like new stories with new characters to build upon.

So, you say you want something new? I'll once again rip some lyrics out of context to make it sound "cooler":

Quote

”use it up and throw away/ make another just the same/ more or less”.

Yay. We have trash outside enough as it is, let's not throw out something we can still use, please? And since we're talking about this...

13 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And others would rather they save plenty of time and effort using the dozens of characters that they already have at this point that Sega owns instead of once again making entirely new OCs to supplant older ones--we had enough of that shit in the games, and it's amazing that the opposite is being entertained here.

And even then, that still doesn't answer my question.

So let me ask you again: how does that require the FF to stay out? What requires these hypotetical new characters to have so much attention that the FF can't join along with the rest of the game cast?

Where exactly did I say that? Because if you actually read my posts, I never did.

But I'll humor you and actually answer this: for one, I don't feel they have to be in the story, no more than that of characters like Knuckles, Blaze, or the Chaotix, for example. But I want these characters to stay because they are (or I'd like for them to be) already available and already have plenty of work made from the get-go to take part in any adventures they are able to take part in much the same way the old longtime cast has been able to. This is a habit of Sonic Team to just throw characters away or ignore their aspects "just because"  when these characters can bring just as much to the table as any other in the hands of a capable writer. They don't have to show up as the central characters as they were in Archie, but I'd like to see them take action and be relevant given that, like the game cast, I grew up with these characters--who the hell wouldn't want something they like to stay relevant and adapt? And before you or anyone else starts, it's not impossible for them to do. And like the game cast, they could benefit from a fresh start instead of having them take a chance with new characters that people may or may not like--I'd say it's far safer to do this with older, familiar characters (even if some aren't fans of them) than to do this with newer characters that at this point have a much bigger challenge of getting fans to like them by comparison given the initial negative attitudes they will automatically have given the bad habit of this happening in the games.

So barring the possibility of Sega being stubborn and saying "no" to any ilk of their presence, how does any of this require that the FF should be barred from jumping ship into this new fresh start? Why the strong urge against them being brought when everything you've said can still be done with them along for the ride for a fresh new start as well?

Man, Sega really needs to listen to this song  ("This song" referring to Nik Kershaw's "Roses", gee I got it stuck in my head yet again...)

*And now, ladies and gentlemen, BlueSky needs to go wash their brains so that they'd get "Roses" out of their ears/head...*

 

And now that I'm back; @Conquering Storm's Servant pretty much nails it, it being the thing about we not having to need to give up on these characters for the sake of something new. Thank you for writing it in here. Or then I got it wrong "again"...

And what if if that new stuff isn't as good as the Archie stuff (not saying it isn't for 100% probability mind you, but there really lies the possibility for it being worse) was? Is the next song in "You Might"? Same guy of course... is this some kind of theme week or what?

Since that'd be my answer to that "mishappen";

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"You might be but you're not!"

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Also, Videgames =/= Comics/Cartoons

And well, actually... if video games (since I have no everloving idea what other thing "Videgames" could be) aren't the same than the comics, isn't it alright to use the Archie cast..?

Since, you know, the games would still keep exsisting as they are?

Sorry, sarcasm isn't too good of an idea, I just had to. Sorry, I'll see myself out.

 

Btw sorry if there're letters missing; some laptops have not heard of typing-able keyboards... This one's just got Firefox which makes using the forum easier than IE and I'm being really busy...

[Meta77]

They do but wouldn't hurt to still add new characters.  comics do this all the tune......they also reboot to much lol

[AAUK]

On 24/07/2017 at 8:30 PM, VEDJ-F said:

The cameos in Generations and Mania weren't even included by Sonic Team, they were put in by AAUK and the Mania team respectively. 

Had they put in 1/10 of what I suggested you'd've lost your minds. 

[Graystripe2000]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but, first details coming in October. 

 

[RictalRose0]

3 hours ago, BlueSky said:

And well, actually... if video games (since I have no everloving idea what other thing "Videgames" could be) aren't the same than the comics, isn't it alright to use the Archie cast..?

 

I wasn't talking about that. I was saying that videogames and comics are not the same. So 10 years in games for characters it's not the same as 10 years in comics for a character. Comics are a monthly thing and they're all about dialogue and story and games release every few years or so and focus on gameplay and sidegames tend to not really be focused on having a story either. You see what I mean?