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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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34 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

But he didn't do that. 

He sacrificed his life to save said planet, because his memories get un messed up and rememberes what maria said

I so yes I will infact say that because that's what happens.

Now to help your argument, gonna do you a favor. A better example would be the black arms of all things. Shadow is in for the most part in clear mind and health and essentially murders his entire family to defend the planet,  that would ACTUALLY be a much better example because that's the same thing that kind of going here. Shadow of sound mind and body " Yep kill em This is for the benefit of everyone else " .  Instead of a personal beef, that gets solved when he realized that he was being manipulated remembered what maria said and does the right thing

That said, he dealing with literally unreasonable aliens that wanted to devour the planets and its inhabitants. But that's actually a much closer comparison 

So , it is a regresson. Its not, only if you forget

If you forget shadow the hedgehog

The end of sonic adventure 2

And sonic heroes, where rouge calms him down and even omega down in one second and the story progreses , and he literally has fucking amnesia

And sonic 06 where the entire point of the story is him knowing people will betray him and him choosing to do the right thing anyways

That would be a regression yes 

Especially that last thing, remember

plinkett voice

Remember when he had a whole character arc to not fucking do this and do the right thing, remember. Remember that time that was the culmination of his character development. REMEMBER

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

 

And this situation isn't even the same as others because it's fucking Eggman. And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

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Guys the other forums as well as reddit had a good reception, I dunno why it's so negative here!

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

 

And this situation isn't even the same as others because it's fucking Eggman. And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

100%.

Shadow is no hippie.

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You now what's problem with this Shadow debate? Assumption that characters have always single opinion personality, with no room for flexibility.

Have you ever made a well though decision that in retrospective you thought was  wrong? Is it in Peter Parker's character to stop being Spider-man, considering how often he wanted to? Did you ever played a game where main character has a personality, yet you can still make decision for him? In TMNT 2012 cartoon there was episode were turtles switched weapons. A  spin-off comic did exactly the same plot (by accident) and both stories went differently. YET both outcomes are in character for turtles.

What I'm trying to say is that not every decision is white and black. Depending on moment and circumstances characters can make different decisio, even if they feel out of characters at first. We need to be more lenient about character actions.

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Guys the other forums as well as reddit had a good reception, I dunno why it's so negative here!

O f$#@, they did? I'm suddenly loving this issue!

...whoops, it's gone. It's still okay, but not great. Flynn has a great talent of usually giving me what I want, but always in smaller dose then I expect.

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Eh, I normally don't like talking like this, but...is it weird that it seems like some of these issues(and the comic itself) has generally been a little underwhelming?

I'm not even sure the page count is really factor this time.

 

Also,

image.png.54823a51372dfe92258a6955843fe107.png

what in the world...?

 

20 hours ago, LukA8 said:

Our mystery villain is finally revealed, and it's...

  Reveal hidden contents

NullDC_Win32_Release-NoTrace_2016-07-29_19-24-12-268.png.8d4f2ed969e60135e1adc80861321322.png

No, but for real...

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.6b1c66cb39bf517c068810478fe1798a.png

..How did I not see this coming?

 

Behind this mask...is another mask!

19 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:
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I was really hoping that it was Eggman Nega since that would explain why Blaze was here. All these months of build up and hype sure resulted in something disappointing. 

 

I'm wondering how that would play out and how to feel about it... :neutral:

16 hours ago, LukA8 said:

Also, the following panel is not much of a spoiler, but is it just me or have Sega been trying a lot to push Charmy into a "cutesy" direction, as if to appeal to Cream fans? They always used to focus on his annoying side, but starting with Forces he has been toned down a lot, he got his moments to shine last issue and this time...

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.7bfeaa565dcadf537dc56e3b29160517.png

...he gets scared of Shadow, the hedgehog he used to fanboy around while fighting aliens on prison island.

It seems like they want to move him away from the little brat-image and make him more popular. A little late to do that now.

I significantly doubt that's it. Mr. Flynn has a history of making less liked/recognized characters a more enjoyable/interesting and Charmy had, like, 3 or four lines in Forces proper.

And to be fair, I'd describe Charmy as less bratty(although he has his moments) so much as energetic, upbeat, and eager.

Plus, it seems like a little redundant/weird prospect.

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 I think the entire plot was reliant on writing shadow like knuckles.

And the fight wasn't even good enough to justify that 

You're being a little oversimplistic about that, as there is a considerable difference between how Shadow acts here & in general and how Knuckles reacts to similar things.

Though I agree with the last part.

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

  Hide contents

, another because even Forces made jokes about how obnoxious he can be.

 

And even then, I wouldn't say that one joke was purely about him being obnoxious so much as more capable/useful than he generally seems.

11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Like there are things sonic could have brought or even rouge that would have been much better examples, but everyone they used was bad and shadow could have retorted.

The story telling in this issue seems... weirdly thoughtless for Ian and almost non existant.

 

Like...?

Yeah, I notice something to effect.

11 hours ago, Razule said:
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Screenshot_20180627-030728.thumb.jpg.c0fb3d634ea903a7adc309d9ba4676d7.jpg

Thanks Sonic.. never would have crossed my mind if you didn't look directly at the figurative camera and tell me what to think

 

Yeah, what's up with those weird, overdramatic non-backgrounds? :lol: 

9 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

 

About Mr. Tinker, I'm thinking

  Hide contents

he might be Metal in disguise to distract the others.

That might be a neat, semi-unexpected way of going about it.

7 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

By the way, the trade collection of the first arc came out. The sketch variant is a blank white cover with nothing on it. 

 

It did? I thought it was due for September?

 

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

But he did question himself...that's how ... he got to that point. 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

But he did, and then decided to do the right thing. 

That's the plot. 

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

Thinking someone is a threat doesn't mean you go " I'mma killa ya " an don't listen to reason, shadow could just be keeping tabs on him. Rouge tells them that they are, and... that's all that needed to happen. To reference the end of forces, shadow didn't go nuts and just go crazy and go " Where's EGGMAN WE NEED TO CONFIRM A BODY " he was smiling and hanging out. Saw classic sonic off. I don't think shadow is that unreasonable and angry about this. I don't think him and eggman are best friends, but he would be reasonable enough to just keep tabs on him if someone asked. Because he's a guy who's can be pretty easily convinced to see the bigger picture and leave things alone. 

No need to concoct entire scenario that's literally 

" Haha shadow you are so dumb, I tricked you are such a baby I had to create an entire situation to baby you into a lesson you learned years go. Look how dumb you are, you accomplished nothing and walked off the screen angry you are so dumb" 

That's what happened. 

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1 minute ago, chaosjam said:

 

Ian commenting on the backlash of #6's final page.  Looks like there is more to the story than what we are seeing.

Translation: Knowing smile.

Knowing SMUG, SMUG, SMUG smile,

Translation of my translation: Flynn keeps toying with us.

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Also I went to check reddit and some other forums. 

They don't love it. They don't really hate it either. Pretty neutral, some like it some don't. Makes sense. Some people think its fine. That's cool. 

 

Quote

What I'm trying to say is that not every decision is white and black. Depending on moment and circumstances characters can make different decisio, even if they feel out of characters at first. We need to be more lenient about character actions.

Sure, 

I don't think that negates criticisms of said actions. 

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4 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Translation: Knowing smile.

Knowing SMUG, SMUG, SMUG smile,

Translation of my translation: Flynn keeps toying with us.

Jeez dude who peed in your cereal. 

Anyway I kinda agree with Flynn I find it really odd people are taking the end at face value. As if there's not 2 options for who that could have really been or anything. 

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Its probably neo metal sonic

I think the infnite cubes gave it away. 

If i had to make a prediction , I imagine he got the phantom ruby made eggman forget who he is, and is being eggman to some larger evil end

Could mephilies actually though, remember he can change form

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But he did question himself...that's how ... he got to that point. 

But he did, and then decided to do the right thing. 

That's the plot. 

 

 

Thinking someone is a threat doesn't mean you go " I'mma killa ya " an don't listen to reason, shadow could just be keeping tabs on him. Rouge tells them that they are, and... that's all that needed to happen. To reference the end of forces, shadow didn't go nuts and just go crazy and go " Where's EGGMAN WE NEED TO CONFIRM A BODY " he was smiling and hanging out. Saw classic sonic off. I don't think shadow is that unreasonable and angry about this. I don't think him and eggman are best friends, but he would be reasonable enough to just keep tabs on him if someone asked. Because he's a guy who's can be pretty easily convinced to see the bigger picture and leave things alone. 

No need to concoct entire scenario that's literally 

" Haha shadow you are so dumb, I tricked you are such a baby I had to create an entire situation to baby you into a lesson you learned years go. Look how dumb you are, you accomplished nothing and walked off the screen angry you are so dumb" 

That's what happened. 

Look, I'm not gonna play "he said, she said" with you. The main point is that Shadow acting first and thinking later has ALWAYS been there and if it weren't, the entire plot of SA2 would have been resolved a lot sooner.

Yes, Shadow could just keep tabs on him, but then there would be no point in this issue existing. Character flaws breed conflict and conflict breeds interesting storylines. It would be boring as hell if Shadow just left, no questions asked. 

There's really nothing about his portrayal here that contradicts any of his established characterization, the language you've used to describe him makes me feel that you just don't like that he's not portrayed exactly how you want him to be.

 

 

 

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

Yes, Shadow could just keep tabs on him, but then there would be no point in this issue existing. 

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't write stories with shadow in em, if shadow can't act like shadow. If you can't fit him in the story you trying to tell, maybe don't fit em in story. 

I'm fine with that.

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

There's really nothing about his portrayal here that contradicts any of his established characterization, the language you've used to describe him makes me feel that you just don't like that he's not portrayed exactly how you want him to be.

Except when I referenced Sonic 06 which directly addressed your point and you ignored. You know, that game who's whole point is for him to actually do the greater good right thing. 

Or are you gonna ignore that again, heck shadow the hedgehog is also a good example, and that's referenced in this book

or are you gonna ignore that again

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4 hours ago, Stephen Rodriguez said:

Well, it's unfortunate to see that this issue didn't do so well. Hopefully the next issue will be better.

It most certainly will be.

Cause honestly, I think this issue finally "topped" Issue 1.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Do you think that with more intense expressive art the story would do better??

I mean, issue 2 was the most well received issue of the bunch, and ABT's art is phenomenal. It made me feel emotions I didn't feel with the other issues.

The colors and style of ABT elevated and added weight to the story although not much happened in issue 2.

What do you think? Do you agree?

Eh, not really.

Good dramatic and expressive Art definitely makes things like this more enjoyable and memorable, but there kinda has to be some form plot, motivation, and tension for it to be complementing/enhancing in the first place. 

 

2 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I mean she was the one to tip off the others about Mr. Tinker, which let sonic arrive in time to protect him from Shadow, but that's about it.

So, basically some minor wit and extra connecting tissue in an issue that's otherwise pretty lacking in either?

15 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I knew the mysterious big bad was going to be Eggman the moment he started to say how much Amy has grown at the end of issue 2 most bad guy wouldn't have taken notice and would have just said that Amy was the same as she always was.

 

That line would also require a significantly established/recurring villain to work in the first place.

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13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't write stories with shadow in em, if shadow can't act like shadow. If you can't fit him in the story you trying to tell, maybe don't fit em in story. 

I'm fine with that.

Except when I referenced Sonic 06 which directly addressed your point and you ignored. You know, that game who's whole point is for him to actually do the greater good right thing. 

Or are you gonna ignore that again, heck shadow the hedgehog is also a good example, and that's referenced in this book

or are you gonna ignore that again

Your condescending attitude is really not helping me take you seriously that you aren't just upset your headcanon version of Shadow doesn't exist.

 

Now you can either drop it, or I can just go about my business and you can argue here all day for all I care.

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Also I would like to reiterate before I go further, I don't mind weird ass interpretations of the character. Heck, they just wanted a silly fight book, sure whatever it happens, make a character crazy for a fight.

Its like the fact that nothing happened, and nothing mattered and it only served to make shadow look really incompetent next to everyone else is my main issue. If you wanna try and justify that's shadow character and its fine. That's ok, if you like that's cool. I think my issue is I feel like everyone else got an intro to show their stuff and why they are valuable. Shadow just got angry and wasted everyone's time. That's the introduction to the character for this book , and its a pretty bad one.  The story kinda doesn't seem to matter and maybe it would be better of shadow and rouge made an appearance later in a story that could better serve their characters and even if they are in conflict with sonic, show what they are about and why they are valuable besides wasting time. And shitting on shadow, because... that's what rouge does with her spare time I guess? This issue is weird

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Your condescending attitude is really not helping me take you seriously that you aren't just upset your headcanon version of Shadow doesn't exist.

 

The head canon that is sonic 06? And shadows game, that is referenced in this book...

What?

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Now you can either drop it, or I can just go about my business and you can argue here all day for all I care.

You can't ignore the argument, and then go " haha I got you " and leave like you got the upper hand

Address the sonic 06 and shadow the hedgehog argument. 

Because if you don't, you have effectively just wasted my time. 

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2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Well, he apparently did here. Maybe he decided Eggman's more of a threat after seeing him take over the world. I'm not really sure what more there is to say about this.

Careful. You're leaning on semblances of proper motivation there.

2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

How do you justify Shadow beating the shit outta Infinite and killing his whole squad?

Yeeeah...that's kind of a problem with having a character like Shadow in a series like this.

48 minutes ago, chaosjam said:

 

Ian commenting on the backlash of #6's final page.  Looks like there is more to the story than what we are seeing.

Honestly, the narration itself(as well the pacing with the previous page, unintentionally,) made that rather obvious.

So I guess it means it is an obscure/overlooked villain in control then.

 

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7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I would like to reiterate before I go further, I don't mind weird ass interpretations of the character. Heck, they just wanted a silly fight book, sure whatever it happens, make a character crazy for a fight.

Its like the fact that nothing happened, and nothing mattered and it only served to make shadow look really incompetent next to everyone else is my main issue. If you wanna try and justify that's shadow character and its fine. That's ok, if you like that's cool. I think my issue is I feel like everyone else got an intro to show their stuff and why they are valuable. Shadow just got angry and wasted everyone's time. That's the introduction to the character for this book , and its a pretty bad one.  The story kinda doesn't seem to matter and maybe it would be better of shadow and rouge made an appearance later in a story that could better serve their characters and even if they are in conflict with sonic, show what they are about and why they are valuable besides wasting time. And shitting on shadow, because... that's what rouge does with her spare time I guess? This issue is weird

It's only your point of view that Shadow looked incompetent. That's how you viewed the book.

Don't speak for all of us.

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Just now, Marco9966 said:

It's only your point of view that Shadow looked incompetent. That's how you viewed the book.

Don't speak for all of us.

I never did 

I literally said if you like its cool.

If you like that's cool. 

That's it. I'm glad you like it, that actually makes me happy. You got some joy out of it. 

That's it. I don't like and i'm a talking about it. I don't hate you or anything 

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41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I went to check reddit and some other forums. 

They don't love it. They don't really hate it either. Pretty neutral, some like it some don't. Makes sense. Some people think its fine. That's cool. 

 

Sure, 

I don't think that negates criticisms of said actions. 

Reddit and Twitter users really liked it though, can't say for other forums because I don't visit. I don't think there is more to explain, considering the cover for issue 7 is kind of in line with the final reveal.

And there was no issue with Shadow in my opinion. 

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41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I went to check reddit and some other forums. 

They don't love it. They don't really hate it either. Pretty neutral, some like it some don't. Makes sense. Some people think its fine. That's cool. 

Yeah, that's the thing.

Aside from maybe the Amy and Knuckles issues(depending on where you look), the overall consesus for most issues just seems to be "Eh, it's okay."

 

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Just now, Drifting Jack said:

Reddit and Twitter users really liked it though, can't say for other forums because I don't visit. I don't think there is more to explain, considering the cover for issue 7 is kind of in line with the final reveal.

And there was no issue with Shadow in my opinion. 

I dunno, I just checked Reddit they seemed neutral some excited some not. Didn't check twitter maybe they loved it, they could have. That's ok

Also that's ok.

Just now, DabigRG said:

Yeah, that's the thing.

Aside from maybe the Amy and Knuckles issues(depending on where you look), the overall consesus for most issues just seems to be "Eh, it's okay."

 

Makes sense its the beginning of a series kinda slow and weird. 

I'm sure people will like it more and it will get better as they hit their stride 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I never did 

I literally said if you like its cool.

If you like that's cool. 

That's it. I'm glad you like it, that actually makes me happy. You got some joy out of it. 

That's it. I don't like and i'm a talking about it. I don't hate you or anything 

We're cool, but try to not look at it through the restricted lens of what exactly Shadow should be, like it's okay if he does a decision that doesnt sound like him it's what interesting characters are for.

And it's not like they all have to stop a timebomb I don't see why him "wasting their time" is such a big problem.

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I'm just gonna blame it on the nature of who this comics aimed at, little kids. So shadow is gonna suffer being written half heartily to let the plot about sonic fit only his light hearted, I'll just wait till Ian leaves the book. Will get a more mature writer that actually knows how to write characters like Shadow without making up or copying quirks from other heroes in order to make the childish tones match shadow.

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2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

We're cool, but try to not look at it through the restricted lens of what exactly Shadow should be, like it's okay if he does a decision that doesnt sound like him it's what interesting characters are for.

I don't really mind weird ass interpretations of the characters , I don't really mind them making weird decisions. But it should contribute to interesting characterization or interesting characterization or at least a cool fight. I don't feel like I got none of that, so that's my issue. 

2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

And it's not like they all have to stop a timebomb I don't see him "wasting their time" is such a big problem.

Because it this is his introduction. I don't think I clarified this, but if this was like issue 120, I wouldn't care as much. I would still not like it, but it would be whatever. This is an introductory issue , this is showing new viewers who shadow is. Everyone else had things to do and were doing them competently and solved a problem. Shadow accomplished nothing, he learned a lesson he had already learned didn't really need to learn again, and nothing happened and the fight was , and then rouge just laughed at him in the end. That's who they are presenting the character as. A person who wastes time and you should just laugh at as he walks off screen. it isn't more so they have place to go and do but rather what shadow is doing that should be indicating his value. And what his value is as of currently, he fights sonic for no reason and is wrong and then you laugh at him.

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