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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

But shadow doesn't throw hands unless he really feels like he needs to throw hands.

Well, he apparently did here. Maybe he decided Eggman's more of a threat after seeing him take over the world. I'm not really sure what more there is to say about this.

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2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

So Shadow in this book. 

" Let me start with this, I don't want shadow to be the coolest, or strongest or smartest, or even the most liked, or anything. What I want shadow to be is competent, because he is, and what I want is for his character he's had to actually persist. " 

 

But it's okay for Sonic(Stronger, Cooler, Most liked) and Tails/Eggman(Smarter ,Competant) to basically overshadow Shadow(LOL) with those traits, plus they're more liked than Shadow for it despite being less written in depth and development?

This is why casuals like Sonic and Tails over Shadow, he's just to mediocre compared to those successful three due to them bein main leads, Shadow isn't written as a main lead.

 

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9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Well, he apparently did here. Maybe he decided Eggman's more of a threat after seeing him take over the world. I'm not really sure what more there is to say about this.

I mean, how is this different than the other times shadow's has worked with eggman seeing that's he's tried to or taken over the world, or possibly caused a shit future where everything is dead and silver exists. 

Shadow's threshold for forgiveness was already hella high, so yeah. Its almost as if

plinkett voice

Its almost as if his entire character is based on forgiveness and he was already going through thinking he was a monster and wanting forgiveness and wanting to grow as a person. like forgiving gun for murdering maria @Marco9966 ( that's what maria had to do with it ) .  The group that he's working for now, or was. And him not even understanding this for eggman, after demonstrating this in several games is a lapse in development. Its almost as if he saw the script and now has to act a certain way to justify the bad poorly thought out story written. 

...Is that the script, is that the script on the ground

He did here, but that doesn't mean it was good characterization, and that doesn't mean that it was good writing or anything. It means that Ian wrote, and frankly I think its pretty shit . And " it happened " isn't a justification for not criticizing something.

7 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

But it's okay for Sonic(Stronger, Cooler, Most liked) and Tails/Eggman(Smarter ,Competant) to basically overshadow Shadow(LOL) with those traits, plus they're more liked than Shadow for it?

This is why casuals like Sonic and Tails over Shadow, he's just to mediocre compared to those successful three due to them bein main leads, Shadow isn't written as a main lead.

 

Shadow being cool and strong is nice, and he is. But I'm more interested in an interesting character at the end of the day. I don't need him fighting everyone. I don't need him to be around all the time. Just when he shows up , hes cool and i'm down. He was very much not cool 

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Just now, Shadowlax said:

I mean, how is this different than the other times shadow's has worked with eggman seeing that's he's tried to or taken over the world, or possibly caused a shit future where everything is dead and silver exists. 

Shadow's threshold for forgiveness was already hella high, so yeah.

Bro this time Eggman pushed his limits! He:

-presumably killed Sonic

-Captured a bunch of civilians to emprison them (and perhaps also banishing them in space).

-Conquer the world

-Used fake copies of him.

What should Eggman do more to go past Shadow's threshold of forgiveness??

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1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Bro this time Eggman pushed his limits! He:

-presumably killed Sonic

-Captured a bunch of civilians to emprison them (and perhaps also banishing them in space).

-Conquer the world

-Used fake copies of him.

What should Eggman do more to go past Shadow's threshold of forgiveness??

TBH, he would have to go back in time and murder maria himself. 

If shadow can forgave the organization that had him about to literally destroy the world, mental manipulation aside. Eggman probably doesn't register as high as that traumatic incident that caused him to be the way is. 

Yeah those things are bad, but even if Shadow didn't forgive eggman, I don't think shadow's unreasonable to do this. He just goes " I'm watches you " makes an edgy noise, presumably " humph " and then walks away. And that's it. 

This does require a whole forced story

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The issue is good. It's hard to find issue with Shadow even jumping the gun considering who it is we're dealing with here. The guy's all about efficiency. Rouge's plan was the only kind of far fetched part about it but I could buy it in the end. 

The best part was seeing Sonic and Shadow clash for a believable reason but not dragging it out longer than necessary. I like that we're not dealing with a Shadow who's always in the right, but he's also reasonable enough to learn from his mistakes. 

I'm liking this a lot. The twist at the end only bothered me in an "I should have seen that coming" kind of way, but I can understand if others were expecting more.

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

TBH, he would have to go back in time and murder maria himself. 

If shadow can forgave the organization that had him about to literally destroy the world, mental manipulation aside. Eggman probably doesn't register as high as that traumatic incident that caused him to be the way is. 

Yeah those things are bad, but even if Shadow didn't forgive eggman, I don't think shadow's unreasonable to do this. He just goes " I'm watches you " makes an edgy noise, presumably " humph " and then walks away. And that's it. 

This does require a whole forced story

How do you justify Shadow beating the shit outta Infinite and killing his whole squad?

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18 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I mean, how is this different than the other times shadow's has worked with eggman seeing that's he's tried to or taken over the world, or possibly caused a shit future where everything is dead and silver exists. 

Shadow's threshold for forgiveness was already hella high, so yeah. 

He did here, but that doesn't mean it was good characterization, and that doesn't mean that it was good writing or anything. It means that Ian wrote, and frankly I think its pretty shit . And " it happened " isn't a justification for not criticizing something

Shadow being cool and strong is nice, and he is. But I'm more interested in an interesting character at the end of the day. I don't need him fighting everyone. I don't need him to be around all the time. Just when he shows up , hes cool and i'm down. He was very much not cool 

Shadow is the ultimate lifeform and Sonics arch rival, he plays off the major characters by fighting them and being in conflict than being peaceful, in an action series fighting is everything to move the story. Sonics by your logic should be cooler and more impressive than him and your saying shadow shouldn't show him up which him and Sonic settle in a fight? 

Shadow to me is Sonics ultimate frenimy or plain adversary which actually makes sense other than being jealous(Knuckles) or obsessed(Metal Sonic), Shaddow is literally Sonics dark twin and negative contrast, that is more believable than the former as a rivalry. Just because Shadow fights for peace like Sonic doesn't make him more a friendly ally to Sonic, Shadow is a anti hero and a violent jerk that naturally lacks Sonics traits like being a bro, enjoying friends and not liking his enemies plus his ego in looking down on weak characters.

Play the games, Ian and you need to pay attention to how shadow actually acts, and make him as cool as He debuted as.

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4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

How do you justify Shadow beating the shit outta Infinite and killing his whole squad?

How do you justify Shadow beating the shit outta Infinite and killing his whole squad?

We don't know if shadow killed his whole squad. Took them out could just mean he beat up infnite's squad like he beat up infinite. They are probably last minute characters they added to give infinite depth. And I have a hard time believing if shadow was this crazed murderer, he wouldn't just murder infinite on the spot. He didn't need to murder infinite, he didn't need to murder his squad.  I don't think he did. 

And him beating the shit out of infinite is his job, he was trying to defend the world, infinite was a goon. Shadow punched and kicked him, did an edgy anti hero speech, dipped. Nothing really to explain about that. 

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15 minutes ago, Josh said:

The issue is good. It's hard to find issue with Shadow even jumping the gun considering who it is we're dealing with here. The guy's all about efficiency. Rouge's plan was the only kind of far fetched part about it but I could buy it in the end. 

The best part was seeing Sonic and Shadow clash for a believable reason but not dragging it out longer than necessary. I like that we're not dealing with a Shadow who's always in the right, but he's also reasonable enough to learn from his mistakes. 

I'm liking this a lot. The twist at the end only bothered me in an "I should have seen that coming" kind of way, but I can understand if others were expecting more.

Ian written Shadow so impressionably I thought he was knuckles and Shadow isn't always in the right, play the games. But he wouldn't be written this hotheaded, Ian's Head cannon of Shadow is shameful, and his self insert fantasy of being the all perfect Sonic is grating.

8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

We don't know if shadow killed his whole squad. Took them out could just mean he beat up infnite's squad like he beat up infinite. They are probably last minute characters they added to give infinite depth. And I have a hard time believing if shadow was this crazed murderer, he wouldn't just murder infinite on the spot. He didn't need to murder infinite, he didn't need to murder his squad.  I don't think he did. 

And him beating the shit out of infinite is his job, he was trying to defend the world, infinite was a goon. Shadow punched and kicked him, did an edgy anti hero speech, dipped. Nothing really to explain about that. 

It was confirmed he killed them in the comic and game, terminated means death.

Also Shadow doesn't have a job as gun doesn't exist in that continuity.

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1 minute ago, Dash Speed said:

Ian written Shadow so impressionably I thought he was knuckles and Shadow isn't always in the right, play the games. But he wouldn't be written this hotheaded, Ian's Head cannon of Shadow is shameful, and his self insert fantasy of being the all perfect Sonic is grating.

So you want Shadow to be exactly like Sonic.

Bro Shadow is supposed to be an ANTI-hero, he's morally ambiguous, he's like the Punisher of the Sonic universe.

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4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Because I don't think he does this at all. If rouge tells shadow  " yo eggman is still around but we keeping tabs on him " he will listen. This entire scenario is a contrived situation that is meaningless and a waste of everyones time. I don't think shadow does this, I think shadow acting like this and needing this entire scenario is a regression of his character. 

They needed an angry character who wouldn't listen to reason to fight sonic, that's knuckles. Shadow, even though he's stubborn, you can talk to and convince him to do shit fairly easily and would need to go through all this. They made him angry and loud for plot reasons, which really isn't his character at all. He's espically after sonic 06 usually a quite chill dude, but they threw all that character progression away for this plot. He had to be knuckles for the plot to function. 

And it makes shadows character look exceedingly bad for a reason i'm going explain in a second. 

 

 

Ok, I don't know what image of Shadow you have, but we are talking about the same person who had no issues blowing up the planet because someone told him to, the very same thing gets brought up in this issue.

And don't try to tell me "Oh Gerald messed with his head" because as soon as his existence is called into question, he just shrugs his shoulders and continues trying to blow up the planet.

 

So Shadow being a act first, ask questions later guy isn't a "regression".

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27 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

So you want Shadow to be exactly like Sonic.

Bro Shadow is supposed to be an ANTI-hero, he's morally ambiguous, he's like the Punisher of the Sonic universe.

Unlike those anti heroes, Shadow actually has a sense of humor and can match sonic in trash talking and boasting. Ian's Shadow missed this mark, Shadow in Boom had a mean but humorous edge like he did in SA2 when fighting Sonic. Ian made him boring target for Sonics jokes. Shadowlax may be right in saying Ian does care for Shadow as a character written right

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2 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow actually has a sense of humor and can match sonic in trash talking and boasting. Ian's Shadow missed this mark, Shadow if Ian played the games is known for being a smug and egotistical snarker.

Which games exactly? There's only Sonic Heroes and Rivals.

And don't tell me about Free Riders! Everybody was a cunt there.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Which games exactly? There's only Sonic Heroes and Rivals.

And don't tell me about Free Riders! Everybody was a cunt there.

Boom games and 06, maybe not snark but definitely more a smug taunter.

1 minute ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

The Archie comics had the dry sense of humour down pat. I think I already said it here, but Shadow reminds me of John Rees (Jim Caveziel's character) from Person of Interest. 

Shadow never taunts his opponents in a cocky way like he does in the games(save one or two times in archie). He straight up belittles his enemies he doesn't respect like infinite. 

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28 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Ok, I don't know what image of Shadow you have, but we are talking about the same person who had no issues blowing up the planet because someone told him to, the very same thing gets brought up in this issue.

 

Quote

And don't try to tell me "Oh Gerald messed with his head" because as soon as his existence is called into question, he just shrugs his shoulders and continues trying to blow up the planet.

But he didn't do that. 

He sacrificed his life to save said planet, because his memories get un messed up and rememberes what maria said

I so yes I will infact say that because that's what happens.

Now to help your argument, gonna do you a favor. A better example would be the black arms of all things. Shadow is in for the most part in clear mind and health and essentially murders his entire family to defend the planet,  that would ACTUALLY be a much better example because that's the same thing that kind of going here. Shadow of sound mind and body " Yep kill em This is for the benefit of everyone else " .  Instead of a personal beef, that gets solved when he realized that he was being manipulated remembered what maria said and does the right thing

That said, he dealing with literally unreasonable aliens that wanted to devour the planets and its inhabitants. But that's actually a much closer comparison 

Quote

So Shadow being a act first, ask questions later guy isn't a "regression".

So , it is a regresson. Its not, only if you forget

If you forget shadow the hedgehog

The end of sonic adventure 2

And sonic heroes, where rouge calms him down and even omega down in one second and the story progreses , and he literally has fucking amnesia

And sonic 06 where the entire point of the story is him knowing people will betray him and him choosing to do the right thing anyways

That would be a regression yes 

Especially that last thing, remember

plinkett voice

Remember when he had a whole character arc to not fucking do this and do the right thing, remember. Remember that time that was the culmination of his character development. REMEMBER

 

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

But he didn't do that. 

He sacrificed his life to save said planet, because his memories get un messed up and rememberes what maria said

I so yes I will infact say that because that's what happens.

Now to help your argument, gonna do you a favor. A better example would be the black arms of all things. Shadow is in for the most part in clear mind and health and essentially murders his entire family to defend the planet,  that would ACTUALLY be a much better example because that's the same thing that kind of going here. Shadow of sound mind and body " Yep kill em " . 

That said, he dealing with literally unreasonable aliens that wanted to devour the planets and its inhabitants. But that's actually a much closer comparison 

So , it is a regresson.

If you forget shadow the hedgehog

And sonic heroes, where rouge calms him down and even omega down in one sec and the story progreses

And sonic 06 where the entire point of the story is him knowing people will betray him and him choosing to do the right thing anyways

That would be a regression yes 

06 was a retcon story shadow may have been used to move the plot and have been heroic  but his actions in it were of his own self interest. Shadow did his own thing independent of gun, he also said he'd fight the world if it betrayed him so I doubt shadow would defend humanity that strongly.

The main thing with me is how much Shadow treated Sonic with deadly seriousness and rigidness instead of the hostile annoyance and superiority to Sonic. Shadow has usually treats Sonic with respect to his power but isn't afraid to point out Sonics flaws and looks down on him by insult his character. 06 is the game I wish Ian didnt reference so much as Shadows written depiction, he's a good character when he's a darker smug sonic who will insult sonic for being the jock who gets his way.

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34 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

But he didn't do that. 

He sacrificed his life to save said planet, because his memories get un messed up and rememberes what maria said

I so yes I will infact say that because that's what happens.

Now to help your argument, gonna do you a favor. A better example would be the black arms of all things. Shadow is in for the most part in clear mind and health and essentially murders his entire family to defend the planet,  that would ACTUALLY be a much better example because that's the same thing that kind of going here. Shadow of sound mind and body " Yep kill em This is for the benefit of everyone else " .  Instead of a personal beef, that gets solved when he realized that he was being manipulated remembered what maria said and does the right thing

That said, he dealing with literally unreasonable aliens that wanted to devour the planets and its inhabitants. But that's actually a much closer comparison 

So , it is a regresson. Its not, only if you forget

If you forget shadow the hedgehog

The end of sonic adventure 2

And sonic heroes, where rouge calms him down and even omega down in one second and the story progreses , and he literally has fucking amnesia

And sonic 06 where the entire point of the story is him knowing people will betray him and him choosing to do the right thing anyways

That would be a regression yes 

Especially that last thing, remember

plinkett voice

Remember when he had a whole character arc to not fucking do this and do the right thing, remember. Remember that time that was the culmination of his character development. REMEMBER

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

 

And this situation isn't even the same as others because it's fucking Eggman. And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

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Guys the other forums as well as reddit had a good reception, I dunno why it's so negative here!

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

 

And this situation isn't even the same as others because it's fucking Eggman. And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

100%.

Shadow is no hippie.

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You now what's problem with this Shadow debate? Assumption that characters have always single opinion personality, with no room for flexibility.

Have you ever made a well though decision that in retrospective you thought was  wrong? Is it in Peter Parker's character to stop being Spider-man, considering how often he wanted to? Did you ever played a game where main character has a personality, yet you can still make decision for him? In TMNT 2012 cartoon there was episode were turtles switched weapons. A  spin-off comic did exactly the same plot (by accident) and both stories went differently. YET both outcomes are in character for turtles.

What I'm trying to say is that not every decision is white and black. Depending on moment and circumstances characters can make different decisio, even if they feel out of characters at first. We need to be more lenient about character actions.

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Guys the other forums as well as reddit had a good reception, I dunno why it's so negative here!

O f$#@, they did? I'm suddenly loving this issue!

...whoops, it's gone. It's still okay, but not great. Flynn has a great talent of usually giving me what I want, but always in smaller dose then I expect.

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Eh, I normally don't like talking like this, but...is it weird that it seems like some of these issues(and the comic itself) has generally been a little underwhelming?

I'm not even sure the page count is really factor this time.

 

Also,

image.png.54823a51372dfe92258a6955843fe107.png

what in the world...?

 

20 hours ago, LukA8 said:

Our mystery villain is finally revealed, and it's...

  Reveal hidden contents

NullDC_Win32_Release-NoTrace_2016-07-29_19-24-12-268.png.8d4f2ed969e60135e1adc80861321322.png

No, but for real...

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.6b1c66cb39bf517c068810478fe1798a.png

..How did I not see this coming?

 

Behind this mask...is another mask!

19 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:
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I was really hoping that it was Eggman Nega since that would explain why Blaze was here. All these months of build up and hype sure resulted in something disappointing. 

 

I'm wondering how that would play out and how to feel about it... :neutral:

16 hours ago, LukA8 said:

Also, the following panel is not much of a spoiler, but is it just me or have Sega been trying a lot to push Charmy into a "cutesy" direction, as if to appeal to Cream fans? They always used to focus on his annoying side, but starting with Forces he has been toned down a lot, he got his moments to shine last issue and this time...

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.7bfeaa565dcadf537dc56e3b29160517.png

...he gets scared of Shadow, the hedgehog he used to fanboy around while fighting aliens on prison island.

It seems like they want to move him away from the little brat-image and make him more popular. A little late to do that now.

I significantly doubt that's it. Mr. Flynn has a history of making less liked/recognized characters a more enjoyable/interesting and Charmy had, like, 3 or four lines in Forces proper.

And to be fair, I'd describe Charmy as less bratty(although he has his moments) so much as energetic, upbeat, and eager.

Plus, it seems like a little redundant/weird prospect.

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 I think the entire plot was reliant on writing shadow like knuckles.

And the fight wasn't even good enough to justify that 

You're being a little oversimplistic about that, as there is a considerable difference between how Shadow acts here & in general and how Knuckles reacts to similar things.

Though I agree with the last part.

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

  Hide contents

, another because even Forces made jokes about how obnoxious he can be.

 

And even then, I wouldn't say that one joke was purely about him being obnoxious so much as more capable/useful than he generally seems.

11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Like there are things sonic could have brought or even rouge that would have been much better examples, but everyone they used was bad and shadow could have retorted.

The story telling in this issue seems... weirdly thoughtless for Ian and almost non existant.

 

Like...?

Yeah, I notice something to effect.

11 hours ago, Razule said:
  Hide contents

Screenshot_20180627-030728.thumb.jpg.c0fb3d634ea903a7adc309d9ba4676d7.jpg

Thanks Sonic.. never would have crossed my mind if you didn't look directly at the figurative camera and tell me what to think

 

Yeah, what's up with those weird, overdramatic non-backgrounds? :lol: 

9 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

 

About Mr. Tinker, I'm thinking

  Hide contents

he might be Metal in disguise to distract the others.

That might be a neat, semi-unexpected way of going about it.

7 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

By the way, the trade collection of the first arc came out. The sketch variant is a blank white cover with nothing on it. 

 

It did? I thought it was due for September?

 

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The main point is that Shadow did not question himself, he simply changed his mind. If Maria actually did want to blow up the planet, he'd still do it.

But he did question himself...that's how ... he got to that point. 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Shadow did not care his memories were fabricate.

But he did, and then decided to do the right thing. 

That's the plot. 

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And this after he just took over the world. This isn't Shadow having an existential crisis and questioning his being, it's him trying to stop a potential problem.

 

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

He doesn't need to listen to Rouge because Shadow has more than enough reason to assume he's still a threat.

Thinking someone is a threat doesn't mean you go " I'mma killa ya " an don't listen to reason, shadow could just be keeping tabs on him. Rouge tells them that they are, and... that's all that needed to happen. To reference the end of forces, shadow didn't go nuts and just go crazy and go " Where's EGGMAN WE NEED TO CONFIRM A BODY " he was smiling and hanging out. Saw classic sonic off. I don't think shadow is that unreasonable and angry about this. I don't think him and eggman are best friends, but he would be reasonable enough to just keep tabs on him if someone asked. Because he's a guy who's can be pretty easily convinced to see the bigger picture and leave things alone. 

No need to concoct entire scenario that's literally 

" Haha shadow you are so dumb, I tricked you are such a baby I had to create an entire situation to baby you into a lesson you learned years go. Look how dumb you are, you accomplished nothing and walked off the screen angry you are so dumb" 

That's what happened. 

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