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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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You know this shouldn't be up for debate in Sonic's defense, Eggman is unable to be trust worthy by default of being a constant threat to him, Shadow did nothing wrong, Shadow shouldn't justify trying to do Eggman in, Sonic's being written as a "thou shall not kill" moral dope is so inconsistant in how he personally feels about Eggman who he has always hated and never given a chance. This is just borderline non cannon fanfiction with a more triggered and ballless Shadow and a Perfect, Insurrably cocky, Self Righteous Sonic. Shadow should kill Eggman)imposter) because Sonic was a smug cocksure invincible hero who thinks he'll never be beaten by Shadow just to spite that smug face. That would be a awesome twist that fits Shadow. Not this cry baby who needs an excuse and has to justify his own actions to Sonic of all people.

14 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

100% agree! Shadow doesn't have to be right. If he was always right he wouldn't exist as the whole point of SA2 is changing his mind at the end.

Without character flaws there is simply no character.

Shadow doesn't have to be right, but he doesn't have to be written by Ian as inept hotheaded brute of incapable of seeing common sense and being told to do the right thing, he's not Silver or Knuckles. Shadow isn't a idiot like Ian had to write Sonic to point out. 

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18 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

It doesn't but when confronted with an extremely similar scenario that caused that growth, story telling would dictate they would at least literally not do the same exact thing, unless shadow is addicted to murder and this is a relapse. He learned and moved on.

As for the Omega thing, I dunno finding out the people who you gave a 2nd chance to put a trap in your best friend to capture you and imprison you forever is PRETTY BAD. Like really really bad. Like to that person, maybe as bad as trying to take over the world bad. Because you are imprisoned with out autonomy, forever 

Because its literally a situation where shadow is shown that something bad, will probably happen if continues to help these people that do not trust him, and he does it anyway.

This is a situation where he knows that something bad will probably happen if he doesn't take care of eggman. 

These are situations where he was given the opportunity to do the wrong thing, and in the previous instance he did the right thing anyway. Doing the right thing anyway is kinda shadow's whole deal. And I don't have an issue with flaws, I think I mentioned the ME thing, but it worked to a degree with who they were using and how they handled it, I don't feel like this works though

So what? You're upset that Shadow wanting to kill Eggman isn't portrayed as "the right thing" and that he's portrayed as wrong for wanting to do so? 

 

 

Quote

Eh, several books of making everyone look competent and he gets the only book where he doesn't and get laughed at for it and wastes everyone time seems like getting dunked on to me, but if you enjoy it that's coo. I think the book presents him as a wildly unreasonable person who needs to be treated like a baby and needs a team of people to calm him down. But interpretations are like that I guess. 

 

If you truly believe that after reading this, then I really don't know what to tell you. Seems like something you gotta work out for yourself. There's nothing wrong with Shadow in this issue. 

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So what? You're upset that Shadow wanting to kill Eggman isn't portrayed as "the right thing" and that he's portrayed as wrong for wanting to do so? 

I don't think this situation would occur. I think my stance was clear, maybe they should have waited to tell a better story with shadow and rouge because it just seemed like they crammed them in there. I can think of  few scenarios like this story that work much better, this one was weird, kinda forced and shadow seemed a bit out of character. 

That's it. Shadow can be wrong, that's whatever. Who cares if shadow is wrong, I just care if they tell an interesting story or at least do a good fight. They do neither and kinda make shadow look bad. 

That's it. But again, I feel like we are talking in circles, if you wanna dip . That's fine. We both have better things to do i'm sure. 

Quote

 

If you truly believe that after reading this, then I really don't know what to tell you. Seems like something you gotta work out for yourself. There's nothing wrong with Shadow in this issue. 

I think there was and I disagree , but that's fine. We just disagree 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think this situation would occur. I think my stance was clear, maybe they should have waited to tell a better story with shadow and rouge because it just seemed like they crammed them in there. I can think of  few scenarios like this story that work much better, this one was weird, kinda forced and shadow seemed a bit out of character. 

That's it. Shadow can be wrong, that's whatever. Who cares if shadow is wrong, I just care if they tell an interesting story or at least do a good fight. They do neither and kinda make shadow look bad. 

That's it. But again, I feel like we are talking in circles, if you wanna dip . That's fine. We both have better things to do i'm sure. 

I think there was and I disagree , but that's fine. We just disagree 

I'm honestly trying to understand because you're the only one making a stink out of this. You bring up a point of how "Shadow would never do any of this" and then bring up 06 as an example of that, when the situations aren't even remotely similar beyond a superficial level of "Shadow having to trust people". The situations are so completely different that I can't really understand how you're equating them with each other and I feel like you're going through mental gymnastics to justify your point.

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How many pages are these issues, generally?

1 hour ago, Gamefreak3525 said:

I agree, it's been kinda disappointing that not much has actually happened in the comic so far. There's just been so little established that is supposed to give readers a reason to be invested; all we really have so far is guessing who this villain  is, and even then the hints we've gotten for that is were practically nonexistent for the first four issues.
 

 

Thus far, we've had Amy trying to convince Sonic to join with the Resistance, Rough n' Tumble having their first encounter with Sonic, Mystery Monster targeting the Master Emerald in Knuckles' absence, Blaze being summoned to Sonic's World after the Eggman-Infinite War, and finally, Rouge tipping off the Chaotix to Mr. Tinker's presence separate from the Eggman Empire's current command.

Only half of that is actually meant to set up any real ongoing/upcoming plot points. So while there is stuff happening and being put in place, it's not as much as it could and would have been with a normal release schedule.

1 hour ago, Gamefreak3525 said:


Even for the early issues of the reboot, we had way more questions that would make us want to read the next issue: What's the deal with Nagus? What's everyone's new origins and redesigns? Who are these new characters? Why is the planet tearing itself apart? How do the game locations  tie in to the new world map? Meanwhile, all we have so far for IDW is Tangle and villages A, B, C, D...you get the point.  I loved what Flynn did for Archie Sonic (both pre- and post- reboot), so I do have faith he can make this comic great...I just wish he wasn't taking so long right now. 

Seriously. If you can even count anything around Tangle.

I can't help but think that if this was Archie, there would be much more backbone, tidbits, and potential setup to this story, namely to Shadow & Rouge being here and now.

1 hour ago, Gamefreak3525 said:

 

Was really hoping the issue would finally provide an excuse as to where Shadow was during Forces too. 

That right there is part of the biggest issue I have with this issue.

 

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

 

Without character flaws there is simply no character.

Uuuuuuh....

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I'm literally doing nothing of value at the moment. If you got a point, then explain it or just agree to disagree. I'm not even disagreeing with you for the sake of it, I'm honestly trying to get your point. @Shadowlax

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4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm literally doing nothing of value at the moment. If you got a point, then explain it or just agree to disagree. I'm not even disagreeing with you for the sake of it, I'm honestly trying to get your point. @Shadowlax

I think we are at a weird crossroads. 

I think the sonic 06 comparison is a good comparison and it shows that why shadow wouldn't be the way that is. You think it isn't a good example and it isn't close and there's plenty of history there for him to act the way he is. 

I don't know how to resolve our issues on this. So I agree to disagree. 

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Anyway, the issue itself I thought was fine. It's still pretty clearly following other issues of "establishing characters and their relationships" in this case, Shadow and Sonic's clashing ideals. The conflict between them felt genuine without either one coming off as an asshole for the sake of the conflict, but obviously since Shadow can't just off Eggman, he's obviously the "wrong" one here. Rouge and the Chaotix didn't really feel needed though, as this was mainly about Sonic & Shadow.

 

And now, to address the elephant in the room...

Spoiler

Ok, obviously there's probably more to do this than meets the eye, but I don't really don't appreciate the intentional fake out here. If it actually IS Eggman, and he's just using an illusion or a fake to trick Sonic and co, then this would be a huge of waste of time to build up. 

If it's someone using Eggmans' guise? Then why the ruse. Feel needless elaborate for the sake of the "mystery". I really hope Flynn doesn't drag this out, because we're seven issues in already.

 

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I just read the issue and I really liked it. 

My girl Rouge, playing the people like the chessmaster she is. I got such delight when I saw the close up of her shifty eyes as she explained her part in this, appearing not as a sidekick for Shadow but as a moderator for the situation of her own volition. That's the kind of stuff that makes her one of the best. 

I really enjoy the way they're approaching this subject matter, honestly. Sonic's merciful attitude being pitted against Shadow's more hardline stance and way of doing things is something I'm grateful can still be pointed out every once in a while. It's nice just being reminded of why there is a conceptual difference between a Team Heroes and a Team Dark.

That said, I don't feel like this is merely a matter of pure right and wrong. There's an argument to be had on both sides and the comic doesn't ignore either of them, thankfully. It settles into one but not without its own caveats either. Truthfully, this does feel like it got a touch more complicated too. I contemplated that the one in the chair was Eggman but trying to work out how it made sense wasn't pulling much of a result from me. Now that it's been revealed, I'm loving that there's no immediate, obvious answer coming to mind still. 

I don't foresee things ending well for "Mr. Tinker" though. Everything seems to be going great for "Eggman" however. What that means, I don't even know but that honestly feels great.

 

 

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Actually, can I just say that I don't think an in-character Espio would be all too happy with letting Mr Tinker go free either? Shadow gets played up as the vengeful killer of the cast, but he was not the one baying for Eggman's blood in the process of a standard evil scheme, let alone after Eggman had taken over the world and forced their friends to form a scrap of a resistance. I mean, he gets played off as very passive and meditative, it's easy to forget nowadays that he does have a pretty aggressive passion for disposing of crooked ways (hence why he's a perfect fit for the detective agency). Maybe he wouldn't specifically want Mr Tinker dead in this case, but I don't think he'd be happy just letting him be free to do whatever if he was right there.

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5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Translation: Knowing smile.

Knowing SMUG, SMUG, SMUG smile,

Translation of my translation: Flynn keeps toying with us.

Sounds like Ian.

If there’s a secret he has, he’s tight-lipped as fuck about it.

Although now that begs the question of whether this reaction was even intentional?

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I'm going back and reading the other reactions and it would seem I'm a bit of an outlier again, though not by too much thankfully. Though, I will say that despite liking the issue fine I can totally see where the other reactions here are coming from (aside from this still drawn out conversation about Shadow. I don't agree that he acted out of turn at all). 

If the mystery of who is in the chair and what the deal with Mr. Tinker is stops for you at the "reveal" that the guy in the chair was Eggman, I can understand why that would be disappointing for you. 

I didn't really approach it from that. I didn't really care too much about who was in the chair, more so the "why" and what was going on and how the story threads connected. Because Eggman being in the chair conflicts with Mr. Tinker being there, and the mystery angle of his memories of Eggmanland being so strange, the situation is giving off vibes of him being genuine and it still feels as though he's acting like an Eggman whose lost his memory.

If this were the actual reveal (I doubt it) I'd probably still be okay so long as the explanation for what he was doing and why turned out to be something magnanimously unique and interesting.

Plus, I'm not the kind of person who cares a ton about references to old characters and what not. Never really been easy to take in by the "Surprise! It's me! I'm back again!" thing but a lot of you all clearly enjoy it. I wouldn't dislike it either. I just like being kept on my toes and this is succeeding at that so far. 

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Truth be told, I'm starting to think that I was unfair with how Ian used Rouge; sure, she could have done more, but she was the one who helped Sonic and the others arrive to the village, there by indirectly saving Mr. Tinker.

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2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

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Actually, can I just say that I don't think an in-character Espio would be all too happy with letting Mr Tinker go free either? Shadow gets played up as the vengeful killer of the cast, but he was not the one baying for Eggman's blood in the process of a standard evil scheme, let alone after Eggman had taken over the world and forced their friends to form a scrap of a resistance. I mean, he gets played off as very passive and meditative, it's easy to forget nowadays that he does have a pretty aggressive passion for disposing of crooked ways (hence why he's a perfect fit for the detective agency). Maybe he wouldn't specifically want Mr Tinker dead in this case, but I don't think he'd be happy just letting him be free to do whatever if he was right there.

 

Yeah, now that you mention it, he always had that stance going on even in the Classic era.

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Aside from all my noted issues with this issue in particular. 

You know what I do like

I like that they don't even try to fucking explain where shadow went during sonic forces. I was half expecting Ian to be like "we should probably clarify on what happened " he has done this sort of thing before and some times expended on already established stories in interesting ways. 

NOPE

Nothing, where was shadow? Don't worry about it, Why didn't rouge know? Who cares. If she did why didn't she tell anyone? Shut up. 

They haven't really explained any of the plot holes. I hope they never do 

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4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Aside from all my noted issues with this issue in particular. 

You know what I do like

I like that they don't even try to fucking explain where shadow went during sonic forces. I was half expecting Ian to be like "we should probably clarify on what happened " he has done this sort of thing before and some times expended on already established stories in interesting ways. 

NOPE

Nothing, where was shadow? Don't worry about it, Why didn't rouge know? Who cares. If she did why didn't she tell anyone? Shut up. 

They haven't really explained any of the plot holes. I hope they never do 

And that's the bigger whole in my issues with the...issue.

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Normally I buy these comics as soon as they release, but after last month’s underwhelming comic, I decided to wait and see what others thought of this month’s issue ...

Looks like this will be the first issue I skip. Nothing about it sounds interesting, it sounds like I’ve seen the Sonoc franchise do stuff like this before...  Hopefully the next issue will finally pick things up, I buy these comics to be entertained, not bored.

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I feel like all I say is "I don't get the hate" but well I don't get the hate.

I thought the issue was a nice Character driven story about Sonic talking Shadow into giving the apparently amnesiac Eggman a chance at Redemption since hey he got one. I like that the fight wasn't really the main focus and it was instead Sonic trying to do what he felt was right. 

I also like that Sonic isn't totally sure Mr. Tinker won't regain his memories. 

As for the twist...I trust Ian. I'm sorry but he's never given me a reason not to think his stories are going somewhere. Maybe it's actually Neo Metal Sonic, Maybe it's an Infinite clone I don't know but I've never really been disappointed with an Ian Flynn arc before. (Well Iron Dominion. But I was more bored than disappointed)

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1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Real Talk, why are some people saying Shadow is copying Knuckles, when Knuckles is the one more likely to give Eggman a second chance whether he's lost his memories or not?

Well, actually, most people don't seem to be saying that all. Reading through this, only one person really is. Or did.

And yeah, despite his temper, Knuckles is definitely more likely to give Eggman a second chance. I seriously have my doubts about whether or not he'd care about this situation honestly. Maybe he would. I dunno. It's hard getting a beat on Knuckles sometimes. Unless he was directly apart of this situation then I could see him giving some input but the most I can see from him being told about this would be the reaction of "What should we do?" and upon being told by Sonic what he was gonna do, Knuckles would be like "You sure? Okay. Good luck with that. Now where the fuck is my emerald? It's been missing since 99."

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