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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 I already explained my point in detail on why this issue wasn't pointless 

I don't remember you doing so actually. I don't think there was anything to gain from this? Why do you think differently? I feel like shadow could have been introduced another time. 

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't remember you doing so actually. I don't think there was anything to gain from this? Why do you think differently? I feel like shadow could have been introduced another time. 

I've literally been saying that its a clash of Sonic & Shadow's ideals for like two or three pages now lol. Including the posted literally at the top of this page.  You'd have to actively be ignoring my posts to not know that by now :V

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6 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel a problem some of you are having is that you guys have a specific way you guys think the characters should act in your head, so when they act in contrary to that, you feel a sense of betrayal and disconnect "Sonic/Shadow/etc. would NEVER act this way" is a common sentiment in these threads I noticed. Thing is, there are have been so many people who have written for the series in it's 20+ year run, it's kind of unrealistic to expect everything in your head to line up with whoever is writing at the time.

Not that you can't be upset when the writing fails to meet your expectations, by all means, everyone has different feelings. But I think it's important to be a bit more flexible and open-minded when it comes to characterization and writing in this series because, for better or worse, every writer that's worked on it has their own interpretation of the series and what it should be just like we do. It's a 20+ year series, there's no way every writer is going to be on the same page when it comes to the writing.

The writers probably look at a basic character description of the cast, and just go from there.

 

I agree to a certain extent. That's something I've always recognized whenever it comes to Sonic and the cast in other mediums. Sonic in Aosth is different from Sonic in Sonic X whose different from Sonic in Unleashed whose different from Sonic in Black Knight whose different from Sonic in IDW.

Despite recognizing this, I like them all for for who they are and for different reasons. However, I can also recognize that there are situations where a certain portrayal of a character will stretch a bit far beyond what I'm used to and realizing that, will be honest with myself that "Hey, what they've done here, I'm not a fan of it."

By no means would I ever say that a character acting differently then what I expected would ruin them for me. I was able to get into Sonic Boom despite how different everyone acted after all.

It's very rare that a line ever gets crossed for me and when it does, it's not usually because I feel a character would never act a certain way, it's usually because the writing centered around it was pants and didn't justify the reaction towards me. Either the sequence of events led things towards the tone being confused or they missed a grand opportunity to capitalize on something. In the case of Archie Sonic, he was a little too consistent with the asshole moments. It always felt to me that he was being flanderized in a sense when it came to his more playful side. Stuff like that led to things that I do personally believe Sonic would never do, like that infamous moment from House of Cards (Haha. NOW I'm using that as an example!)

Either way ,I was never supposed to be an arguement or something where I was gushing out hatred. I was expressing how grateful I was that Ian was writing Sonic and all the characters in a really well done way and it just turned into an argument somehow. Or maybe I just got rambly when it came to trying to explain why I thought that way. 

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15 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I've literally been saying that its a clash of Sonic & Shadow's ideals for like two or three pages now lol. Including the posted literally at the top of this page.  You'd have to actively be ignoring my posts to not know that by now :V

I'm not ignoring your posts? It just seemed more like an explanation for why the characterization was valid rather than like why this story needed to be here. I've liked stories that I have later gone " they didn't really need to tell that story then if at all " and I don't think you enjoying a premise is exactly an argument for it contributing something to a larger narrative. My issues with shadow aside, I don't think it really contributes something to a larger narrative?

When I say the issue was a waste of time i'm talking about it like this. Like every issue expands the world/ and or introduces a character that wasn't there before and I mean like blaze and tangle, one character not in the previous game and from another world effectively expanding the world and tangle being brand the fuck new doing so as well. 

As much as I love shadow , he's my boy, he's my favorite. His emotional turmoil, doesn't really matter much here? In comparison for what each issue does for the world, this seems pointless. Nothing is introduced that's new, we already know this comic takes place after forces, the audience knows shadow exists. So.. there's no need for this story really? Shadow's emotional turmoil worked in the last few Archie Sonic universe sets because those stories for the most part were about him, and he was dealing with stuff. And him dealing with stuff progressed the narrative it had a direct effect on where the narrative went. This does not. No one gains anything from this, the only progression in the narrative happens on the page with nowhere near shadow. This story could not happen, and it would not effect the progression of the over arching narrative. Which since that's the focus, i'm more interested in. Shadow's inner turmoil, can be focused on when its a larger overarching narrative about shadow, other wise he can fuck off and go see a therapist. 

I know this might seem a bit harsh for someone who seems to really like this character, but at the same time I mentioned that I would be totally ok if shadow didn't appear for a year. Just because I like something, or there was something in it that I liked doesn't mean it was necessary to the over all plot. This was fluff and the only relevant bit is near the end. 

Bonus: this story is even more pointless to people like you and me or anyone else familiar with a comic book or any form of entertainment, because eggman is gonna go back to being evil...so shadow will essentially be proven right by the invisible hand of the brand.So not only does this not contribute anything to the larger narrative, shadow is probably gonna be right anyway. Yielding this entire scenario rather fruitless. 

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8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

No, I literally did not ignore all of that.  I brought up in the response a couple of times that I wasn't calling for Sonic to forgive him, or be on his side, or to forget all the bad stuff he did. The point in what I was talking about was his conduct. Just his conduct.

I can't for the life of me buy that any version of Sonic would be presented with the information he was and react to it like that. I understand that this is an incredibly odd and unconventional opinion to have but I honestly only believe it's polarizing because, like with Eggman here, the person we're talking about is technically a villain.

It's incredibly easy to point at an example like House of Cards because Tails is not only a hero character but also Sonic's supposed best friend. However, I'm pointing out his behavior regarding Geoffrey because I don't believe in saying that because Sonic's reaction at the trial is technically justifiable doesn't mean it's the way I feel he would have reacted. 

I never tried to argue that Geoffrey had the moral high ground so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there. I never tried to argue that Sonic didn't have a reason to not like Geoffrey. And I wasn't saying that Geoffrey was justified in his actions either. I feel as though you think my issue is with something a bit different from what I'm talking about so I'll quote my explanation in the other response and clarify it a bit more.

Okay, so what I'm saying here is that the book did a terrible job of supporting Sonic's behavior with the way it presented Geoffrey's case. In other words, the tone was off. For all intents and purposes, Sonic is totally justified in wanting him to go down for what he did. However, that isn't a justification for his behavior at the trial at all.

The bolded part outlines how I desired for him to actually react in that situation. Instead of pumping your fists and hollering in excitement after I, the reader, was fed a sympathy ridden story about how someone's life was thrown out of whack and led them down a dark path, how about INSTEAD you have it CONTINUE to be played up as the tragedy it is by having Sonic's reaction reinforce that. NOT by having Sonic forgive him (because why would he?) but by having him contemplate what happened. I'm imaging the verdict being passed and Sonic's reaction being a straight-faced, eyes half open, no-nonsense, serious expression. He's silent and staring at Geoffrey like he's drilling a hole into the guy's head, trying to pry an answer that he'll never get out of him mentally and trying to figure out how things got so bent out of shape. 

I wanted Sonic to actually acknowledge both of the situations he was being presented with and take it seriously. Have the fact that the guy could be seen as sympathetic but ALSO couldn't be forgiven as something that's played up and expressed through Sonic's reaction.

But instead he just shouts in excitement and I'm left to take that reaction and juxtapose it with all the sad shit the book just told me before and be okay with it. It felt SO fucking weird when I read it at the time and it still does. I don't understand why that was the go-to oversimplified reaction he went with for something as serious as that. It should have been more complicated then that. You said yourself that Geoffry wasn't even acting antagonistic towards him before the supposed betrayal. You'd think after having it happen so suddenly and then getting a smattering of backstory it would lead to a more complicated reaction?

I've always hated it. It just came off like a lazy, douchey, dude-bro, simple-minded reaction from a version of Sonic that I didn't like. 

Sorry for the lte response, I found myself asleep somehow...

But find it hard to see it that way not only on the count of what happened, but because Sonic actually seems bombastic enough to do that when he nets a victory.

When he fights and beats Eggman or any foe for that matter, he’s not above rubbing their face in. This one just happened to be a matter of Sonic not physically fighting someone and letting the law take care of an injustice, which he supports for obvious reasons, so him reacting the way he did isn’t really any different to what he normally does.

Him being a lot less like that might be more dramatic and signal a tone shift, but what i saw was typical Sonic gloating. And given what Sonic had went through, it’s difficult to see why he or anyone else wouldn’t be proud of the justice being served to one who wronged them.

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26 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also side note:

I also i'm not a fan of the issues premise I guess? Like, that eggman better be not real. Because if that eggman is real eggman, and he goes back to being a dick...which he will. Shadow was right. I would also make the argument that sonic's argument is kind of even weirder because it seems like some weird form of amnesia would could just be temporary. Point being, so like what happens shadow's just...right. 

Do just ignore that. 

Do we just go " Yo shadow was 100% correct , totally should have murdered 0/10 " where do we go from that 

Even if Tinker is the real Eggman and goes back to being evil, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would've been right to kill him. First, if he actually has amnesia, then one could fairly argue that "Mr. Tinker" is a different person than "Eggman" and doesn't deserve death for things he didn't and wouldn't do. Second, one could argue that it would be wrong to kill Eggman even if he was fully himself the whole time; Eggman is a bad guy, but we're not meant to take him as a mass-murdering terrorist or something. In the sort of unreal Saturday morning superhero show logic the series runs on, Eggman could still redeem himself, and even if we know the series would never go in that direction, that doesn't mean killing him would be the morally correct choice for the characters within the series.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Even if Tinker is the real Eggman and goes back to being evil, that doesn't necessarily mean that it would've been right to kill him. First, if he actually has amnesia, then one could fairly argue that "Mr. Tinker" is a different person than "Eggman" and doesn't deserve death for things he didn't and wouldn't do. Second, one could argue that it would be wrong to kill Eggman even if he was fully himself the whole time; Eggman is a bad guy, but we're not meant to take him as a mass-murdering terrorist or something. In the sort of unreal Saturday morning superhero show logic the series runs on, Eggman could still redeem himself, and even if we know the series would never go in that direction, that doesn't mean killing him would be the morally correct choice for the characters within the series.

"but we're not meant to take him as a mass-murdering terrorist or something"

But he literally took over the world , and made a guy " infinite" who went about murdering people in the story. This isn't the first time he's done that either. 

So if he goes back to evil, and just does that. Then yeah shadow's right. He would in fact be justified, he would be saving the world.

 

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Just now, Shadowlax said:

"but we're not meant to take him as a mass-murdering terrorist or something"

But he literally took over the world , and made a guy " infinite" who went about murdering people in the story. This isn't the first time he's done that either. 

It's cartoons for children, dude. If you can't get behind the fundamental nature of the series then Sonic just isn't the kind of series that you're into.

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11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's cartoons for children, dude. If you can't get behind the fundamental nature of the series then Sonic just isn't the kind of series that you're into.

Here's the thing, i've seen cartoons for children kill of bad dudes all the time.  I've seen, this series effectively murder bad things that were alive. Also  you seem to be wildly misinterpreting my statement. I'm not asking for sonic to turn into the punisher, I don't want that shit. I don't want eggman to die, he's too entertaining. 

What i'm saying is that shadow would be right, and I hope there are repercussions for that. Because while I while I have my issues with shadow in this book being too upset. You know what might make shadow really upset. Someone using his past to argue against why he shouldn't have stopped a bad guy, and then that bad guy outright doing the thing that he would have prevented.  I figure that might piss him off right quick, and I hope there would be fights over that,  you could probably get a few good stories. Maybe where shadow is the bad guy.

You may have misinterpreted my original point, and i'm not gonna put that all on you because i'm not the best writer. But there should be something that occurs from this, because you can get a lot of interesting stories out of that , and I hope they address it. Because shadow would effectively been technically correct, maybe not exactly morally to some but in terms of lives saved, very correct. And I thin you could get some fun stories with an extremely pissed off shadow.

Because while there's a " fight" neither party seems really upset and even as shadow literally has sonic pinned to a tree , he seems to care about his well being neither of them really wanted to hurt the other. 

I think you could get a legit , shadow is fucking pissed story out of this and It would be sick. Like an enerjak thing, I really liked enerjak. 

Edit: Not just shadow too, maybe eggman goes...well eggman on the village and some of the survivors aren't really too fond of sonic anymore. And you have a scenario where there factions of people who don't like sonic and how he does things. So many interesting possibilities. 

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12 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 Or I recall his behavior during Geoffery's trial; hooting and hollering with excitement over the scene as the guy poured out his heart over the hardships he faced in life and the regret he had about the way things fell through.

Yeah, that moment stuck out to me as rather clashing when I reread it a few weeks ago.

12 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

The example concerning Geoffery is a detriment to Sonic's character, in my opinion, because of the failure to portray the situation in a way that's actually supportive of Sonic's reaction to him. From a narrative sense the set-up was put forth as an explanation for his actions and the story they laid out before me wasn't being treated as something I, as a reader, was supposed to be seething in hatred at him for. By the end of it I was sympathetic towards him. I felt in my heart of hearts that no matter what Sonic felt towards the guy, his reaction would probably be a lot more serious and straight-faced then what I got.

But after all the bad stuff Geoffery did and tragic explanation leading up to why it all happened, you'd think that'd leave him concentrating on how things got so messed up as well as recognizing that, despite that, he still wouldn't be able to forgive him. It felt like one of those instances that would call for a bit more of a mature reaction from Sonic, as few and as far between as those can get.

And yet his reaction, despite the bad atmosphere and how shitty things are for everyone on both sides (aside from Naugus) he just pumps his fists up and hollars in excitement, "YEAH! TAKE THAT YOU JERK!" like he wasn't even fucking listening or considering what was going on at all. Like I know he didn't have the best relationship with the guy but just a little contemplation about the severity of his situation or something at least a little less douchey might have helped round out things for me.

I like the idea of feeling sympathetic for both sides and it was a situation that called for it. The way the book presented it, by the end of it I felt bad for the guy. If I wasn't supposed to feel that way and was instead supposed to be all excited along with Sonic then why tell me all the bad stuff that happened and present his side of the argument anyway? 

 

Pretty much.

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Ok finally caught up with these two issues. It has made me think... quite a bit on what'll happen next. 

Issue 5: The amusing bits was seeing Eggman with amnesia and being known as "Mr.Tinker". When he vowed to "fix everything" back in Issue 4, I didn't think he'd do it literally! 😅 I also say that it was pretty fascinating to see Sonic and the Chaotix plan on what to do next. We got Sonic acknowledging how capable the Doc is in threatening the world, and struggling on the question on punishing someone who has no collection of what he did. Eventually he concludes that Eggman really did turn over a new leaf and seeing the both of them being friendly to each other was kinda nice. It was also amusing to see Charmy riding the Motobug for fun.

tumblr_inline_pazhk67uej1taxesp_500.png

The art in this issue is alright, my favorite expression in this issue was this one. Sonic here is like "I'm so done with your shiz right now".

Issue 6:

Spoiler

So I read this issue a couple of times to get the gist of it. I will say that the interactions between Sonic and Shadow and the arguments they produced on the development was some nice comebacks to the previous games and shows their character.

The previous issue had Sonic take note of how much of a threat Eggman is. This time, he tries to convince Shadow to give him a chance despite the amnesia, by pointing out the rare times Eggman actually assisted the group when there was a new threat, and then we have Shadow pinning him down but only to state his two cents on the matter as well as showing concern for Sonic reminding him of the times Eggman tried to destroy him. Here it was more of a fight with words rather than the usual rival battles in the games. 

There were also some amusing moments, Sonic using the events of SA2 to justify his point, only for Shadow to nullify that with an unamused stare. Sonic saying “nerts” was pretty random. I didn’t know what to expect when he was saying that. The Chaotix in this issue was pretty amusing. When they decide to go after Sonic and Shadow only for sweat drops to appear after seeing how fast they’re going was hilarious and then pinning the blame on Rouge after that with the latter being coy was also funny. 

The art in this issue was alright, though Tracy's cover was pretty cool, with those bright glowing colors contrasting on the black background.

Then I got to the ending of this issue and...uh...

tumblr_inline_pb39lcqb1g1taxesp_500.png

Well then.

Hopefully there’s more to this than meets the eye but if there isn’t then this would kill all the foreshadowing hype the issues were building. Even then it made me change my thoughts up a bit. Initially I thought Tinker was an illusion and Eggman was still out there but now I think about it it could be the opposite? Tinker is Eggman, but with amnesia but he's slowly starting to remember things (Sonic wondering whether Eggman's memories are coming back could be one thing) The Eggman on the chair is either Metal Sonic Overlord or Eggman Nega, (considering the fact that they shapeshifted in Heroes and Rivals/2 respectively) though for some reason I'm thinking it's Nega. (Assuming that the "No Nega" mandate isn't implemented in this continuity.) The other long shots is that Blaze and Silver are getting involved and the Sol Emeralds warning Blaze of something else that's gonna happen. Nega is more of Silver and Blaze's enemy than Sonic's right?

Another thing that came to my mind was the ending of issue 3, with "Eggman" setting his sights on the Master Emerald again. Nega somehow heard about it and caught it via card in Sonic Rivals. Unless I’m totally missing something and that Metal Sonic was aware of it’s existence before and tried to take it. "Eggman" also acknowledged Amy Rose's skills in issue 2. It could be Nega's doing as well? The hedgehog he caught in a card is now a hammer welding strategist? (Then again this part can apply to Metal Sonic, taking the events of Sonic CD into consideration.)

So yeah. Curious to see how Issue 7 will be done.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

So if he goes back to evil, and just does that. Then yeah shadow's right. He would in fact be justified, he would be saving the world.

Don't be so quick to get that twisted.

He'd still only be justified in his own eyes as in "The ends justify the means". Even if Eggman were faking the Amnesia all along, the burden of the hero is to make the hard choices, and be bigger and better than the people around you. Killing off one guy to save a bunch of others doesn't magically excuse the act of killing - because when you get down to it, you're essentially doing to him what he is going to do to everyone else. You're committing the same crime in the name of prevention. Shadow is okay with getting his hands dirty to that effect amnesia or not. Thats why he's an antihero and not a hero. Justified =/= right. Two wrongs don't make a right. It might save the world in the long run, but that doesn't make it right.

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3 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Sorry for the lte response, I found myself asleep somehow...

But find it hard to see it that way not only on the count of what happened, but because Sonic actually seems bombastic enough to do that when he nets a victory.

When he fights and beats Eggman or any foe for that matter, he’s not above rubbing their face in. This one just happened to be a matter of Sonic not physically fighting someone and letting the law take care of an injustice, which he supports for obvious reasons, so him reacting the way he did isn’t really any different to what he normally does.

Him being a lot less like that might be more dramatic and signal a tone shift, but what i saw was typical Sonic gloating. And given what Sonic had went through, it’s difficult to see why he or anyone else wouldn’t be proud of the justice being served to one who wronged them.

Well, again, I'm not questioning them being proud of the "justice" being served or them being supportive of the verdict. My issue is with his conduct and the odd shift in tone. I'm thoroughly on the side that believes that just because something is "justifiable" it doesn't mean the character reacting a certain way isn't going to rub me the wrong way depending on how I percieve the situation.

If you'll notice, my issue has only been with Sonic here. I didn't say anything about the reactions from everyone else who were supportive of the verdict and their positions are irrelevant to me.

This was a situation that I don't believe called for the typical, one-note gloating on Sonic's end. It sticks out in my mind as a particularly interesting example of him being a douche in that book. 

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24 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

Can we talk about how good Rouge is in those 3 short pages we see her? She indirectly saved the day.

As others have pointed, it was a small, but rather impressive moment for her.

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4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It's cartoons for children, dude.

Tell that to Disney, cuz they don’t seem to have issues with this subject with their cartoon movies, for children.

Not that I’m saying Eggman should be killed, but this “for children” response really doesn’t cut it.

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5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Also side note:

I also i'm not a fan of the issues premise I guess? Like, that eggman better be not real. Because if that eggman is real eggman, and he goes back to being a dick...which he will. Shadow was right. I would also make the argument that sonic's argument is kind of even weirder because it seems like some weird form of amnesia would could just be temporary. Point being, so like what happens shadow's just...right. 

Do just ignore that. 

Do we just go " Yo shadow was 100% correct , totally should have murdered 0/10 " where do we go from that 

 

Sonic's argument didn't depend on Eggman's amnesia though.

Sonic argued that Eggman did plenty of good things even before he lost his memory, and that's why he deserves mercy.

So no, even when Eggman does regain his memories, that won't make Shadow's desire to kill him "right" in and of itself.

WqtUVBq.jpg

As seen here, Sonic's arguing on behalf of the pre-amnesia Dr. Eggman, not just "Mr. Tinker."

 

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It’s important to also realize that Eggman is less a mass murderer for shits and giggles and more a world conquerer out of ego.

Eggman isn’t above killing, if the numerous times he’s tried to do in Sonic and his friends are any indication, but that’s mainly because they keep interfering in his plans—he doesn’t go out of his way to kill scores of people just because. He wants to rule over them.

Now you could argue he’s more remorseless about the damage he causes, but he’s not Kefka Palazzo or Dr. Weil here.

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Just now, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Eggman isn’t above killing, if the numerous times he’s tried to do in Sonic and his friends are any indication, but that’s mainly because they keep interfering in his plans—he doesn’t go out of his way to kill scores of people just because. He wants to rule over them.

Now you could argue he’s more remorseless about the damage he causes, but he’s not Kefka Palazzo or Dr. Weil here.

Did you forget he wanted to drop the sun on everyone?

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1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

Did you forget he wanted to drop the sun on everyone?

That would count under the “They’re in my way” clause I said before, given everyone there was down and ready to fight him.

If none of them were there to fight him, he wouldn’t bother dropping an illusionary sun on them.

EDIT: Also, don’t forget that he imprisons Sonic instead of killing him after Infinite beats him.

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6 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm not ignoring your posts? It just seemed more like an explanation for why the characterization was valid rather than like why this story needed to be here. I've liked stories that I have later gone " they didn't really need to tell that story then if at all " and I don't think you enjoying a premise is exactly an argument for it contributing something to a larger narrative. My issues with shadow aside, I don't think it really contributes something to a larger narrative?

When I say the issue was a waste of time i'm talking about it like this. Like every issue expands the world/ and or introduces a character that wasn't there before and I mean like blaze and tangle, one character not in the previous game and from another world effectively expanding the world and tangle being brand the fuck new doing so as well. 

As much as I love shadow , he's my boy, he's my favorite. His emotional turmoil, doesn't really matter much here? In comparison for what each issue does for the world, this seems pointless. Nothing is introduced that's new, we already know this comic takes place after forces, the audience knows shadow exists. So.. there's no need for this story really? Shadow's emotional turmoil worked in the last few Archie Sonic universe sets because those stories for the most part were about him, and he was dealing with stuff. And him dealing with stuff progressed the narrative it had a direct effect on where the narrative went. This does not. No one gains anything from this, the only progression in the narrative happens on the page with nowhere near shadow. This story could not happen, and it would not effect the progression of the over arching narrative. Which since that's the focus, i'm more interested in. Shadow's inner turmoil, can be focused on when its a larger overarching narrative about shadow, other wise he can fuck off and go see a therapist. 

I know this might seem a bit harsh for someone who seems to really like this character, but at the same time I mentioned that I would be totally ok if shadow didn't appear for a year. Just because I like something, or there was something in it that I liked doesn't mean it was necessary to the over all plot. This was fluff and the only relevant bit is near the end. 

Bonus: this story is even more pointless to people like you and me, because eggman is gonna go back to being evil...so shadow will essentially be proven right by the invisible hand of the brand.So not only does this not contribute anything to the larger narrative, shadow is probably gonna be right anyway. Yielding this entire scenario rather fruitless. 

Well for one, like you said, it's an introduction to Shadow (and Rouge). That's the main hook of this issue, it's an introduction to him and his establishment to the world and his relationship with Sonic, like literally every other issue before it. It doesn't really do any more or less than the previous issues. In fact, it's completely different from the previous issues because the main conflict is not Sonic just teaming up with the issue's featured character to defend a village, the conflict is with the featured character, in this case being Shadow. 

Like, if you want me to break it down.

Issue 1: Introduction to Tails and establishment that Eggman's army is on the move and that someone is pulling the strings

Issue 2: Introduction to Amy 

Issue 3: Introduction to Knuckles and Rough and Tumble

Issue 4: Introduction to Blaze and Tangle

You get the idea. So I don't get how this issue is pointless when it builds off every pre-existing issue so far. You said the story can work without Shadow, and in theory, it can but then you'd basically eliminate the entire conflict of this issue and it'd just be about nothing. And yes, Shadow does matter here because he's the main opposition to Sonic's stance on how to deal with Eggman. Like, all of that kind of matters to establishing Sonic & Shadow's relationship as well as adding to the situation of how to deal with Eggman in his current state. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Sonic's argument didn't depend on Eggman's amnesia though.

Sonic argued that Eggman did plenty of good things even before he lost his memory, and that's why he deserves mercy.

So no, even when Eggman does regain his memories, that won't make Shadow's desire to kill him "right" in and of itself.

 

As seen here, Sonic's arguing on behalf of the pre-amnesia Dr. Eggman, not just "Mr. Tinker."

 

Nah, I think it would totally make him right. The world would literally be a better place eggman died, like factually

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Don't be so quick to get that twisted

He'd still only be justified in his own eyes as in "The ends justify the means". Even if Eggman were faking the Amnesia all along, the burden of the hero is to make the hard choices, and be bigger and better than the people around you. Killing off one guy to save a bunch of others doesn't magically excuse the act of killing - because when you get down to it, you're essentially doing to him what he is going to do to everyone else. You're committing the same crime in the name of prevention. Shadow is okay with getting his hands dirty to that effect amnesia or not. Thats why he's an antihero and not a hero.

There are plenty of heroes that just strait up kill people when it comes down to it. Childish ones too. 

Sometimes the hard choice is deciding to kill the bad guy who wont stop. Heroes do that sometimes. Sometimes childish ass heroes do that too. 

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Justified =/= right. Two wrongs don't make a right. It might save the world in the long run, but that doesn't make it right.

That's more than two wrongs on eggman's side budy

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Nah, I think it would totally make him right. The world would literally be a better place eggman died, like factually

The world could have been destroyed by Black Doom if Eggman hadn't been around to help fight him off. Sonic himself argues that Eggman's involvement may have made the critical difference between success and failure there.

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45 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Well for one, like you said, it's an introduction to Shadow (and Rouge). That's the main hook of this issue, it's an introduction to him and his establishment to the world and his relationship with Sonic, like literally every other issue before it. It doesn't really do any more or less than the previous issues. In fact, it's completely different from the previous issues because the main conflict is not Sonic just teaming up with the issue's featured character to defend a village, the conflict is with the featured character, in this case being Shadow. 

Like, if you want me to break it down.

Issue 1: Introduction to Tails and establishment that Eggman's army is on the move and that someone is pulling the strings

Issue 2: Introduction to Amy 

Issue 3: Introduction to Knuckles and Rough and Tumble

Issue 4: Introduction to Blaze and Tangle

You get the idea. So I don't get how this issue is pointless when it builds off every pre-existing issue so far. You said the story can work without Shadow, and in theory, it can but then you'd basically eliminate the entire conflict of this issue and it'd just be about nothing.

You could make this story about something else more relevant to the larger plot with its own conflict. It doesn't even have to have shadow and rouge in it. 

Also shadow popular as shit, you could have introduced him later and it would have been fine. 

Quote

 

And yes, Shadow does matter here because he's the main opposition to Sonic's stance on how to deal with Eggman. Like, all of that kind of matters to establishing Sonic & Shadow's relationship as well as adding to the situation of how to deal with Eggman in his current state. 

I don't really think their relationship particularly matter too much, one because... they actually haven't really been at odds in years and the last time they were at adds a shadow from the past got ripped out and wanted to fight sonic.Two, I don't think that this even needed to be dealt with, now you could have just told another story maybe about what's going on behind the scenes and then reveal that thing at the end. This story just doesn't seem relevant to anything, if sonic and shadow wanna work on their relationship they can see a relationship counselor in their own time, but as of currently this doesn't make me give a shit it seems Irrelevant.

However, I will concede this to you. If the thing I said happens, and eggman not dying actually contributes something interesting to sonic's and shadow's characters, later and makes an interesting story. Like shadow potentially doing an enerjak or just being fucking pissed, or people in the world not like sonic because of this decision. Then this issue would be worth it, I will be 100% wrong I will have not seen the bigger picture. And I will look very silly.

But as of currently, seems rather pointless.  

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

The world could have been destroyed by Black Doom if Eggman hadn't been around to help fight him off. Sonic himself argues that Eggman's involvement may have made the critical difference between success and failure there.

Eh, I would make the argument that difference between success and failure is that shadow broke through the mind control and killed the guy. 

But even still , so? That's neat he did that, shadow's still justified. 

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