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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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17 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

The squad then and now😃

squad1.pngsquad2.png

BTW when do we get solicits for issue 10?

 

Why can't we have this on the games as well? Funny how the comics actually acknowledge that the main group is made of four characters (bonus points for also making Knuckles have legit motives) and not three.

Anyway, I really like how they handled Metal, striking a nice balance between him doing something to be on the spotlight and not achieving it at the expense of the good old doc like in Heroes. If there's something I applaud the people running the IDW book is how they take stuff from the games and improve it in a way that makes fans happy.

 

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1 hour ago, Dash Speed said:

Why does blaze get put in equal standing in the main plot with sonic and Eggman again in this comic over someone who was in Sonic forces? 

Sonic and Eggman> Knuckles, Tails, Amy > Resistance > Shadow, Team Dark, Chaoxtix.

 

I think you just answered your own question. Besides, unlike Shadow, Silver's actually getting some major screentime with the story next issue. And probably in a more meaningful way than in Blaze's issue, too.

And Team Chaotix are part of the Resistance. Hell, Vector got more lines and character moments than Amy did. 

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Fucking gorgeous issue. Good God, it was so beautiful. Metal Sonic looked spiffy as hell. Instantly the first thing that came to mind was how and what techniques were used to make him look that good.

However, the main take away from this was the fight. I swear the choreography and movement reminded me of a chapter of One Punch Man. I wish I could see this thing animated.

Fights have never been the strong suit of any of the Archie comics. The best fight it had in my opinion was the one where Sonic and Megaman fought against Bass and Metal Sonic in the first Megaman crossover. Due to the tactics used to defeat them spanning the length of the entire issue, the fight actually had a chance to breathe and sink in as something epic that was happening. I feel like this one very easily tops it. 

I seriously can't stress enough how great this fight was. It brought back that itch of wanting a grand spectacle Sonic anime to come out sometime in the future. Or at the very least, that desire to see something like that Unleashed opening done with a choreographed fight between two characters once more.

I also like this take on Neo Metal Sonic. It would have been redundant to just go for the whole "I'm taking over now that Eggman's gone" thing again but this is very much playing to the idea of him being a modified and coded robot. He's fully aware of what he did in the past and how he was programmed to think the way he does now, but isn't going against the programming at all. Not only that but he's still on this kick about copying others, replacing others, stealing identities and what not. There's something to this idea behind Metal Sonic here. A soulless robot whose attempts to find his own identity come from him repeatedly borrowing from other people's identities instead is interesting. Not only that but it's subtle too. He's not literally looking to the sky and going "Who am I?" and "This is who I am!". Partially because he's a menacing villain and the fact that he acts this way is still legitimately creepy and unsettling.

I always wonder if robots can go insane whenever I think of Neo Metal Sonic.

So yeah, I really enjoyed this one. Holy moly.

It did kind of strike me just how much they're sticking to the main games when I saw the group shot at the end with them all whooping to victory like that though. Mainly due to Knuckles. I do admit to still preferring him the way he was in the Adventure games and the first two seasons of Sonic X but I have a feeling that if things had properly developed to this point with his character, I wouldn't have an issue with it. There's things about him that I can infer well enough in advance for it not to be that big a deal. It's not like Ian would ever forget Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald. That's really all I want the games to recall at this point anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

Like Kuzu said, Shadow doesn't need to have more importance than the others whenever he's around.

That's the problem--most of the "dreamcast" era treated Shadow as this perpetually tone-setting & high stakes character in the Sonic series and now the colossal returns to form have him feel out of place as a shadow of what the series derailed into.

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1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

Like Kuzu said, Shadow doesn't need to have more importance than the others whenever he's around. I mean I understand you like him, but it's not fair that a lot of the other characters have to always be background characters when he's around and he always has to be a main character. 

Yep, I like shadow. A lot of people do, but he doesn't need to be in every story. I would argue he doesn't need to be in the last issue, it could have been about rouge and more plot related. No, I don't want some situations like the pre-reboot comics where sega has to force ian to write about shadow. But I would prefer stories be constructed that fit him, rather than him be forced into narratives he's clearly not relevant in. That's where I feel he is right now in this comic, he just exists because people like him. 

I would have prefered they waited, and then when he showed up they made a huge stink about it

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Hey, late to the party on this train, and it's off-topic to the current conversation, but...

What the heck, the Team Sonic Racing one shot is a DOLLAR MORE?! I'm incredibly picky like that, but come ooooonnnn, the regular comics are already $6.50 AUD for me, which are three dollars fifty cents more than they should be. Hopefully, my store doesn't go for any price change on the one shot.

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The last time Blaze even appeared in a comic prior to IDW was almost FIVE years ago. I think if Ian wants to toss her an early bone before Shadow, who receives no shortage of spotlight, then let him do so. Shoehorning in Shadow before a few less prominent characters just for popularity's sake is both extremely predictable and forced. Let the man write the story the way he wants. Shadow will get plenty of opportunities to shine. 

On that note, color me very hyped for #10. :D 

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5 minutes ago, Flame Lance said:

The last time Blaze even appeared in a comic prior to IDW was almost FIVE years ago. I think if Ian wants to toss her an early bone before Shadow, who receives no shortage of spotlight, then let him do so. Shoehorning in Shadow before a few less prominent characters just for popularity's sake is both extremely predictable and forced. Let the man write the story the way he wants. Shadow will get plenty of opportunities to shine. 

I mean, Shadow appeared in almost all of the Reboot universe arcs.

11 minutes ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Hey, late to the party on this train, and it's off-topic to the current conversation, but...

What the heck, the Team Sonic Racing one shot is a DOLLAR MORE?! I'm incredibly picky like that, but come ooooonnnn, the regular comics are already $6.50 AUD for me, which are three dollars fifty cents more than they should be. Hopefully, my store doesn't go for any price change on the one shot.

Well, it is said to be "extra-long".

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28 minutes ago, Flame Lance said:

 Let the man write the story the way SEGA allows. 

Fixed.

26 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I mean, Shadow appeared in almost all of the Reboot universe arcs.

Including Shattered! You know--the conclusion of the Knuckles and Amy teamup subplot?

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3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

 

 

You aren't going to be satisfied until everything is about Shadow are you?

 

Good god man, not everything has to be about Shadow. I get he's your favorite character and all, but you're such a blatant fanboy about this that I honestly can't believe what you're saying is legit. You'll be shocked to read this, but there are other characters besides Shadow that exist in the universe of Sonic the Hedgehog with their own stories and roles to play. Shocking I know, but yes...there are other characters besides Shadow that exist :V

To add to this, I’d like to emphasize this point as well.

Shadow fans can like and enjoy other characters in the spotlight aside from Shadow. We don’t have to be jealous just because he’s not in a main role—there are plentynumerous opportunities for him to come back as a major character.

Hell, Ian gave him plenty back in the Archie Comics and made him far better than he could ever have been in the games, even with the terrible Black Arms backstory (and that’s saying a lot given the writing quality everywhere else in this franchise as of late)

Just because he gets a side role on occasions like this doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. Shocking, I know.

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3 hours ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Hey, late to the party on this train, and it's off-topic to the current conversation, but...

What the heck, the Team Sonic Racing one shot is a DOLLAR MORE?! I'm incredibly picky like that, but come ooooonnnn, the regular comics are already $6.50 AUD for me, which are three dollars fifty cents more than they should be. Hopefully, my store doesn't go for any price change on the one shot.

isn't like a double comic?

3 hours ago, Flame Lance said:

The last time Blaze even appeared in a comic prior to IDW was almost FIVE years ago. I think if Ian wants to toss her an early bone before Shadow, who receives no shortage of spotlight, then let him do so. Shoehorning in Shadow before a few less prominent characters just for popularity's sake is both extremely predictable and forced. Let the man write the story the way he wants. Shadow will get plenty of opportunities to shine. 

On that note, color me very hyped for #10. :D 

This. 

Like lowkey, shadow might actually be in fucking smash bros. Shadow fans will be fine

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5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Yep, I like shadow. A lot of people do, but he doesn't need to be in every story. I would argue he doesn't need to be in the last issue, it could have been about rouge and more plot related. No, I don't want some situations like the pre-reboot comics where sega has to force ian to write about shadow. But I would prefer stories be constructed that fit him, rather than him be forced into narratives he's clearly not relevant in. That's where I feel he is right now in this comic, he just exists because people like him. 

I would have prefered they waited, and then when he showed up they made a huge stink about it

Bro, it's not only Shadow, all the important game characters are here, look at issue 8 cover.

5 hours ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Hey, late to the party on this train, and it's off-topic to the current conversation, but...

What the heck, the Team Sonic Racing one shot is a DOLLAR MORE?! I'm incredibly picky like that, but come ooooonnnn, the regular comics are already $6.50 AUD for me, which are three dollars fifty cents more than they should be. Hopefully, my store doesn't go for any price change on the one shot.

It's more pages.

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1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

It's more pages.

 

6 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Well, it is said to be "extra-long".

Hmm...

Guess we'll have to see what happens. If it's double the usual pages, that's some bang for your buck if it's only a dollar more.

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15 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

It's obvious Shadows role compared to blaze is fanservice and being shoehorned for showing him off, not a pivotal role in the story plot with sonic directly.

Tell me how thats fair especially how the character is used to implement in a story much better than others since he is one of the heavy story types in the series. Next is Silver. Why does blaze get put in equal standing in the main plot with sonic and Eggman again in this comic over someone who was in Sonic forces? shadow and team dark play no main part in being the ones who help sonic out the most.

Evennin the gsme Shadow got overshadowed(pardon the pun)by the oc and Knuckles resistance. Knuckles is more a spotlight stealer than Shadow in that game considering he plays the pivotal force in the games as the resistance leader up onto this comic, Shadow and Team dark just has a insignificant tie in to the main villain and stays minor up to the last second of the games story in forces, while you could argue Rouge doing more for the narrative which supports Knuckles the most who then works under sonic as the main face, which goes back to my hierarchy term

Sonic and Eggman> Knuckles, Tails, Amy > Resistance > Shadow, Team Dark, Chaoxtix.

 

Fairness I think is one of those strange arguments to make when approaching a narrative. A storyteller has a story to tell and you decide if you want to experience it based on any number of factors. From what I can tell, what makes you interested is in how Shadow is used and in what quantity, but as Ian Flynn has not met that demand as of yet you are disappointed. So is Shadow's lack of use fair? Sure is. The story Flynn is telling does not heavily require him and that is perfectly fair. Personal bias and preferences aside, if the story that is being told does not require Shadow or addressing his part in the game the comic is following then it would be unfair to the storyteller to demand it. It's their story, not yours. So if anything is unfair here it is you wanting the storyteller to cater to your desires instead of telling the story they want to tell in this setting. Your massive expectations for shadow and Flynn are if anything unrealistic considering it has already been said that the comic is about Sonic first and foremost, and not his friends or Shadow. So why then do Sonic's friends appear more than the obviously more popular Shadow? Again, an easy answer as in they are Sonic's friends and are known for partaking in his adventures, but even simpler, because that's who Flynn wants to use to tell his story which is his right as the storyteller. In this case, popularity takes a back seat to storytelling and the only popularity in play is Flynn's own as his popularity determines if he is a storyteller whose story you want to experience.

Now for the games, the biggest problem with Shadow is the type of imagery the character has and in the case of Forces, the game being about the Avatar and the Resistance. Since Shadow is not a member of the Resistance or involved with the Avatar in anyway his role in the game is minimal. Sure SEGA could be accused of false advertising since they hyped him up as a villain and then did nothing with him, but the same could be said of the other villains as well making the problem one of storytelling and not exposure. Beyond that though, the games since Unleashed have been presented with a less story-heavy and more lighthearted atmosphere making the dark and story-heavy Shadow an ill fit. If there is anything unfair being practiced by SEGA here it is using Shadow the same way they have been using Classic Sonic; as a pandering to certain fans in a cheap and very shallow attempt to sell their game to more than the target audience. This treatment of the consumer is where most of the problems with Shadow come from as he should have been retired by this point with the change of direction that the franchise has gone in. Any future relevance Shadow's character can have would require another change in franchise direction, a re-exploration of Shadow's character and motives in a Sonic only environment (you should see the problem there already), or by giving Shadow his own spin-off series which has already failed in the one attempt to do so. In short, at this point Shadow is an irrelevant character who currently has no place in the games and is only staying around due to his popularity. He's roughly in Knuckles' position but lacks the pushed friendship with Sonic to even be there really. Is this a shame for Shadow fans? Sure, but his popularity does not guarantee him a permanent place in the franchise and that is the unfortunate reality. At the end of the day this is Sonic's franchise and the story of his adventures and as fans of any other character but Sonic we have to accept that there will be droughts of our favorite characters appearing due to the current shape and presentation of the franchise. Is that fair? Sure isn't, but it's even more unfair to expect a Flynn to sacrifice the story he wants to tell just to pander to your individual demands.

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14 hours ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Hey, late to the party on this train, and it's off-topic to the current conversation, but...

What the heck, the Team Sonic Racing one shot is a DOLLAR MORE?! I'm incredibly picky like that, but come ooooonnnn, the regular comics are already $6.50 AUD for me, which are three dollars fifty cents more than they should be. Hopefully, my store doesn't go for any price change on the one shot.

It's 40 pages long.

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4 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Fairness I think is one of those strange arguments to make when approaching a narrative. A storyteller has a story to tell and you decide if you want to experience it based on any number of factors. From what I can tell, what makes you interested is in how Shadow is used and in what quantity, but as Ian Flynn has not met that demand as of yet you are disappointed. So is Shadow's lack of use fair? Sure is. The story Flynn is telling does not heavily require him and that is perfectly fair. Personal bias and preferences aside, if the story that is being told does not require Shadow or addressing his part in the game the comic is following then it would be unfair to the storyteller to demand it. It's their story, not yours. So if anything is unfair here it is you wanting the storyteller to cater to your desires instead of telling the story they want to tell in this setting. Your massive expectations for shadow and Flynn are if anything unrealistic considering it has already been said that the comic is about Sonic first and foremost, and not his friends or Shadow. So why then do Sonic's friends appear more than the obviously more popular Shadow? Again, an easy answer as in they are Sonic's friends and are known for partaking in his adventures, but even simpler, because that's who Flynn wants to use to tell his story which is his right as the storyteller. In this case, popularity takes a back seat to storytelling and the only popularity in play is Flynn's own as his popularity determines if he is a storyteller whose story you want to experience.

Now for the games, the biggest problem with Shadow is the type of imagery the character has and in the case of Forces, the game being about the Avatar and the Resistance. Since Shadow is not a member of the Resistance or involved with the Avatar in anyway his role in the game is minimal. Sure SEGA could be accused of false advertising since they hyped him up as a villain and then did nothing with him, but the same could be said of the other villains as well making the problem one of storytelling and not exposure. Beyond that though, the games since Unleashed have been presented with a less story-heavy and more lighthearted atmosphere making the dark and story-heavy Shadow an ill fit. If there is anything unfair being practiced by SEGA here it is using Shadow the same way they have been using Classic Sonic; as a pandering to certain fans in a cheap and very shallow attempt to sell their game to more than the target audience. This treatment of the consumer is where most of the problems with Shadow come from as he should have been retired by this point with the change of direction that the franchise has gone in. Any future relevance Shadow's character can have would require another change in franchise direction, a re-exploration of Shadow's character and motives in a Sonic only environment (you should see the problem there already), or by giving Shadow his own spin-off series which has already failed in the one attempt to do so. In short, at this point Shadow is an irrelevant character who currently has no place in the games and is only staying around due to his popularity. He's roughly in Knuckles' position but lacks the pushed friendship with Sonic to even be there really. Is this a shame for Shadow fans? Sure, but his popularity does not guarantee him a permanent place in the franchise and that is the unfortunate reality. At the end of the day this is Sonic's franchise and the story of his adventures and as fans of any other character but Sonic we have to accept that there will be droughts of our favorite characters appearing due to the current shape and presentation of the franchise. Is that fair? Sure isn't, but it's even more unfair to expect a Flynn to sacrifice the story he wants to tell just to pander to your individual demands.

OK

So I wanna respond to this. So let me start this off, I like you. You seem to be one of the most reasonable people I've met in this forum and usually have even if I do not agree well written and thought out opinions as to how you feel. 

That said I feel like this response is, not the most well thought out and a bit purposefully antagonist to sort of push home the point that shadow isn't the lord god king of video games. That's a good point to push home but there are some facilities. You seem to be trying to remove the correlation between popularity and relevance , especially in a series that as of currently is responding the desire for shadow and has him on the front of stuff , as DLC content to push sales, and probably some other things in the future. Also there's another fallacy where shadow needs to have an environment that fits him? While I agree shadow doesn't fit in every story, I also agree ALL characters don't really fit in every story and I we have seen shadow in more light hearted stories that still have weight and its fine. In fact the guy writing the comic now , wrote some of them. And then there's again just wanna mention this shadow might be in friggin smash bros. I don't think shadow is irrelevant , I don't think the points that you raised were good. 

I do think reinforcing that shadow isn't the god king of all video games especially sonic so stop being annoying about him, is a good point to push home. Because that sort of mentality I feel ruins discussion, Trying have an earnest discussion with someone's who's mentality is " The main character should win all the time " , its the same amount of annoying and it isn't fun. That said I don't feel like a lot of the arguments you made were the most reasonable and kinda just sounded like you were annoyed at dash speed. Which I get. But some of em are kinda eeeeeh

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Fair points @Shadowlax and I appreciate you bringing out that I may have come across as antagonistic and annoyed. That said I do feel my stance on the comics and the role of Shadow in the story that Flynn is trying to tell is not one of focus for Shadow and his current place in the world. I would even still argue that issue 6 and Shadow could be removed from the comics right now and nothing would be lost with the way that Shadow was used at this point. As for the games and Shadow's popularity and relevancy, I honestly don't feel he is currently relevant narratively and is in a very similar position to Knuckles in that he is simply being plastered everywhere due to his popularity. As SEGA is in the business of making that short term rush of exploiting him while he is still popular is a sound strategy and really should be milked for all it's worth from a business standpoint. Unfortunately, SEGA and/or Sonic Team has shown little care for making a cohesive and comprehensive narrative that plays to the strengths of the characters and with a bend for more lighthearted comedy Shadow's role as a dark counterpart to the hero makes him an ill fit for such stories with the writers that SEGA/Sonic Team are using seeming to really have no idea as to how to use him. Does that mean it can't be done? With the right team anything can be done and frankly I think Flynn can pull it off if anyone can from what I've seen, but he is limited to the comics and not the games. Considering the lack of control he would likely have to work with if he did though even he would have little opportunity to make it work in that environment so I'm rather glad that he is instead putting his storytelling abilities to good use with the comics. Regardless of where Ian Flynn is though, until something changes with SEGA?Sonic Team I feel no matter how much Shadow remains popular he will be in a Knuckles-like situation where his presence brings certain expectations which will never be met in the current presentation of the series. As I personally think both Knuckles and Shadow could bring so much to the franchise's narratives if they would just get off of the whole Sonic the Action Sitcom rut they are currently in I find it a shame that they are forced into narratives that don't play to their strengths and characters at all except maybe in the most superficial of ways at best. So I guess to better clarify, I find Shadow is currently narratively irrelevant even as he is extreme relevant business-wise due to the money he brings in due to his popularity.

Again, thanks for bringing up the hostility my argument had and I apologize to anyone I upset.

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32 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

And then there's again just wanna mention this shadow might be in friggin smash bros.

I mean, probably not, though. There's no actual evidence that he is, so he "might" be in Smash in the same way thousands of other characters "might" be in Smash.

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1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

Again, thanks for bringing up the hostility my argument had and I apologize to anyone I upset.

You don't gotta apologize dude, we having a conversation about funny colored animals who fight fat doctors loosely based on old presidents. Or in this case, a liquid terminator version of a colored animal disguising himself as a a doctor loosely based on a president. I'm not upset, just pointing something out. Its cool man its chill. 

 

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22 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Like Kuzu said, Shadow doesn't always need to have more importance than the others whenever he's around. I mean I understand you like him, but it's not fair that a lot of the other characters have to always be background characters when he's around and he always has to be a main character. 

Shadow hasn't been important or in forefront constantly in over 10 years, even after 06. It's always been Sonic n friends(Blaze is written with more ties to the main lead as a buddy than Shadow), while Shadow and his team is put in fanservice roles instead of being in story roles for some small minority of fanservice. 

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32 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow hasn't been important or in forefront constantly in over 10 years, even after 06. It's always been Sonic n friends(Blaze is written with more ties to the main lead as a buddy than Shadow), while Shadow and his team is put in fanservice roles instead of being in story roles for some small minority of fanservice. 

The same is pretty much the same for the others gamewise (probably more so since Shadow got his onlwn DLC episode in Forces) and like @Flame Lance said, Blaze only appeared once in the reboot comics while shadow appeared in almost every Universe issue. I think Blaze needs more screentime right now than Shadow.

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1 minute ago, Dash Speed said:

Shadow hasn't been important or in forefront constantly in over 10 years, even after 06. It's always been Sonic n friends(Blaze is written with more ties to the main lead as a buddy than Shadow), while Shadow and his team is put in fanservice roles instead of being in story roles for some small minority of fanservice. 

Maybe because there hasn't been a good Game!Sonic story since Black Knight which was the last time he had a major role?

I mean, what's the point you're making here? Firstly, he was in the forefront in 2009, considering he was a major villain, and playable character in Black Knight, and every single game afterwards has had a terrible story where literally no one has gotten a decent role in it, so it's an incredibly moot point. You could quite literally slot out Shadow for any character other than Sonic. Tails gets his character derailed, Knuckles gets made into a idiotic sight gag, and Amy is always support, so again, this point means literally nothing.

Or if you want to get into Archie Sonic, he had two entire story arcs post!reboot that focused on him between Total Eclipse and Shadow Fall, and if we include Pre-Reboot into that, and go with Universe arcs, there's also The Shadow Saga, which was the first debut arc, officially tying Shadow up with Knuckles as having the most arcs in Universe. So no, there's no excuse of "he hasn't been headlined" in the comics either, because he was headlined in two arcs before the cancellation of that series.

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