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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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24 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

My personal interest in IDW Sonic is at a major low and the Freedom Fighters would get me to pay more attention/care more.

Honestly, same here. Tangle and Whisper just aren't interesting to me. The plot has felt very unimaginative to me so far, and hearing that there are more limitations with the characters doesn't help. If I remember correctly, SEGA wasn't much of a fan of the Freedom Fighters, so I don't think it's likely they'll return. Which stinks. It's just yet another setback. I mean, I sort of understand why. Archie lawsuits and all. But...still. It stinks. They may be "inspired by the games", but it feels like the comics have become the games now. The only thing that's different is the writing.

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2 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Honestly, same here. Tangle and Whisper just aren't interesting to me.

To be fair, we haven't Whisper's introduction yet and there needs to be actual time spent establishing, focusing, and developing her and other new characters.

4 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

They may be "inspired by the games", but it feels like the comics have become the games now. The only thing that's different is the writing.

Unfortunately, that seemed to progressively be the intent.

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1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

Honestly, same here. Tangle and Whisper just aren't interesting to me. The plot has felt very unimaginative to me so far, and hearing that there are more limitations with the characters doesn't help. If I remember correctly, SEGA wasn't much of a fan of the Freedom Fighters, so I don't think it's likely they'll return. Which stinks. It's just yet another setback. I mean, I sort of understand why. Archie lawsuits and all. But...still. It stinks. They may be "inspired by the games", but it feels like the comics have become the games now. The only thing that's different is the writing.

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, we haven't Whisper's introduction yet and there needs to be actual time spent establishing, focusing, and developing her and other new characters.

Unfortunately, that seemed to progressively be the intent.

While I understand why Archie Sonc fans might be upset and acknowledge that it doesn't make things any better for them, I do think the games, with writers who aren't woefully inept, is exactly what a lot of us were hoping for with IDW Sonic.

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I personally prefer the comics this way because I grew up with the Adventure/Modern games mainly and I never saw much of Pre-SGW/SatAM.

Although I hope the classic characters can have a chance later.

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Eh, I personally am enjoying this blank slate approach. For once it feels like the comics are an extension to the games and more accurately represents the franchise as a whole. Archie was so cluttered with characters and felt so detached from the games that it was hard for me to get into, honestly. I do like the Freedom Fighters and don't necessarily want them to just vanish forever, but by the same token I greatly prefer the look and feel of the new characters in IDW and the potential for more focus on the existing game cast rather than FFs. I'm conflicted. I know I definitely want to see the classic game characters at some point, however. 

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Yeah, the comics even improve on the games's stories! The reason we fought Metal clone instead of Metal Sonic was genius!

Personally I think the new characters fit more and are more "Sonic-y".

Because their names are not "real names", but words which describe them like Tangle, Whisper, which is like how Sonic, Blaze and every other character's name describe them.

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I don't think the FF's coming back will help the comic , even if they did the focus would be for the most part on game characters it seems. And I think that's a good thing. Also I want them to get the game characters down before anything else. Outside of sonic we have seen everyone once, and even in the big team up odds are people will be given less time to shine than others. And in cases like shadow I don't think that once was even a good showing. 

So before we even think about bringing a group of characters who actually aren't relevant to what sega wants to do with sonic as a brand, lets the ones they actually wanna do stuff with right I guess. 

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I grew up with the archie comics from issue 0 to the end and every special and spinoff in between and I can say idw has blown  a lot of not all of the old archie books out of the water. From art  to story to some godly fights. I'm glad archie slipped up and idw got the rights and we dont have to worry about the old cast showing up again. The fact they have limits and yet introduce new characters in my eyes is good. Means we may get them in the games  and hell let the writers write the next game cause it's a damn good read. Seriously. Hell I  haven't seen this much praise on comic stores or Twitter in well ever for the sonic comics really.

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Maybe one of the reasons I want to see the Freedom Fighters is because my favorite issue so far has been issue 4 and Tangle was one of the major reasons for that (Blaze and Evan too). It felt like it had something new or different to say, and introducing newly rebooted Freedom Fighters would feel that way too. We know they wouldn't be like in Archie Sonic pre or post-reboot at the very least, meaning there would be something to look forward to.

Reading the book right now is very hard because it honestly feels like there's nothing exciting to latch onto. Too much time is being spent on introducing the secondary or possibly tertiary cast without establishing an environment or narrative outside of them. We've had 7 issues so far and outside of the Egg Fleet flagship, none of the locations even remotely stand out. The characters are being introduced, but not in a way that lets the reader get to know them; you're expected to know who this cast is (IDW originals notwithstanding) and it hurts the book being able to stand on it's own without the games backdrop.

Ian and company keep insisting this is a new continuity, and I get it; it's not like the games are going to start referencing what happens in the American spin-off comic. But even if this were canon to the games, I still expect the story to be structured in a way that let's characters be introduced in a setting that plays off their strengths, personalities, and relationships so I can be interested in seeing them again. The closest we've gotten to that are issue 4 and Sonic and Shadow (arguably Mr. Tinker) in issue 6. Nothing else stands out, it's all blurring together.

Compare this to how Ian structured Countdown to Chaos. Each Freedom Fighter was given specific focus to show off who they were and what role they filled while in the background and to the side new characters were shown off, varied locations got to be given focus, the Unleashed narrative was getting setup, and all of that was on top of the dual memory sub-plot. That story had much more baggage and expectations placed on it, and yet it still succeeded at being a better new launch story than IDW has even attempted so far.

I don't know if Ian is just trying to set the bar as low as he can as he feels out what IDW wants out of the book, or if the reason Ian's stories in Archie Sonic were so good was because the likes of Kaminski and Lovallo had a better sense of story management, flow, and understanding of the material than Hughes and Mariotte do. I don't know, but for the most part it's just coming off so far as a bland promotional tool for Forces leading into the franchise in general rather than content that wants to actually tell an engaging story that'll still be going 5-10 years from now. In that way, it feels a lot more like how pre-reboot Archie started rather than post-reboot come to think of it.

I'm going to keep reading it no matter what, but I do hope it gets better at some point.

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To be fair, we needed this, an inprovement for Modern Sonic over the games stories, Archie was known because it was so different and that's why people could never get into it. Maybe now there are stricter mandates, but stories are still interesting. I remember during the reboot a lot of characters where introduced quickly and there was too much world building, it felt boring honestly, there was little plot and it was even an adaptation, we had lost everything but the boring SatAM stuff. The freedom fighters got 250 and more issues of stories and development, are we really gonna compare them to Tangle and Whisper who hasn't even debuted yet? They haven't gotten the chance to shine, it's not fair! Plus Ian was the one who created better characters and did wonders with the SatAM cast, let's give him a chance now.

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The reason I hope the FF will come back is that they would fit the best in the current universe. While the human world have a ton of worldbuilding available in form of countries, major "faction" (United Federation, etc), the animal world has nearly non of it (except nameless town). The Acorn Kingdom and stuff like the Freedom Fighter would fit the best in such a universe, as it's basically a "funny animal world that have been invaded by Eggman/Robotnik", a bit like SatAM. Their backstory would be really easy to implement (they have been invaded during the Eggman invasion, they had no contact with the resistance and such as to save themselves), and something like the "Acorn Kingdom" would add a faction in the animal world. So I think that when/if they are used, they'll be something that could help the universe to grow and now that they aren't the main focus, they will less bother games fans while still keeping happy comic-book fans (that have got through a lot with the Archie problems).

But what's great is that with how the universe is done, they can implement them in a few years if they want. The place is here, and they can easily add this world-building bit when it will fit great. But I'd rather have them for the moment focus on their story, and then expand the universe (and waiting for the right time will make their return more of an event).

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2 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

now that they aren't the main focus, they will less bother games fans while still keeping happy comic-book fans

That's like putting Classic Sonic in a modern game. Trying to please everyone will please no one.

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19 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

That's like putting Classic Sonic in a modern game. Trying to please everyone will please no one.

There is a huge difference between adding Classic Sonic and adding the FF. The FF could be integrated well in this universe because the premise is adapted and won't make them the core of the comic-book (because that was the problem with most people : not having enough time for core character).

And tbh, the "trying to please everyone will please no one" is an extreme simplification. I didn't talk about trying to please *everyone*, but to get some compromise, and to get some readers that will be pretty loyal to the brand (the comic-book readership have allowed ArchieSonic to live for 25 years). Especially as here it wouldn't be a change of the core, but some world-building that would affect some arc and timelines. The goal isn't to make this a fusion between Archie and current IDW, but adding some new element that could be usefull int he current situation (because for the moment, there is no world building in the animal world)

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15 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

That's like putting Classic Sonic in a modern game. Trying to please everyone will please no one.

That's two different ballparks you're shooting at. One was a buildup of pandering until the straw broke the camel's back, the other is from an unacknowledged part (well, in terms of games) of the Sonic franchise.

Think Mighty and Ray, they were brought back to Sonic games for the first time in over two decades. Pleases the fans, doesn't hurt the casual player. It's not an attempt to please everyone so much as it is just bringing old characters back for fun. Which is what the case with the Freedom Fighters in the IDW comics would be.

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People my lord  the freedom fighters are NOT coming back the quicker people accept that the better.

Also I agree the books needed this new structure.  its selling like wild. My comic store would have around 14 copies of Archie's sonic stacked up every release.  idws sonic has had 3 issues left every time if not sold out. Including variants

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5 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Reading the book right now is very hard because it honestly feels like there's nothing exciting to latch onto. Too much time is being spent on introducing the secondary or possibly tertiary cast without establishing an environment or narrative outside of them. We've had 7 issues so far and outside of the Egg Fleet flagship, none of the locations even remotely stand out. The characters are being introduced, but not in a way that lets the reader get to know them; you're expected to know who this cast is (IDW originals notwithstanding) and it hurts the book being able to stand on it's own without the games backdrop.

 But even if this were canon to the games, I still expect the story to be structured in a way that let's characters be introduced in a setting that plays off their strengths, personalities, and relationships so I can be interested in seeing them again. 

Compare this to how Ian structured Countdown to Chaos. Each Freedom Fighter was given specific focus to show off who they were and what role they filled while in the background and to the side new characters were shown off, varied locations got to be given focus, the Unleashed narrative was getting setup, and all of that was on top of the dual memory sub-plot. That story had much more baggage and expectations placed on it, and yet it still succeeded at being a better new launch story than IDW has even attempted so far.

 

Yeah, that's been my problem since Issue 4. There's hasn't been much to chew on other than Sonic's preference of fighting Eggman, Blaze being called by the Sol Emeralds to help with something worse than the Phantom Ruby War, Mr. Tinker's current state, and the reveal that Neo Metal Sonic is the Chairman.

5 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

 

I don't know if Ian is just trying to set the bar as low as he can as he feels out what IDW wants out of the book, or if the reason Ian's stories in Archie Sonic were so good was because the likes of Kaminski and Lovallo had a better sense of story management, flow, and understanding of the material than Hughes and Mariotte do.

I've been wondering about that as well.

1 hour ago, Kazhnuz said:

The reason I hope the FF will come back is that they would fit the best in the current universe. While the human world have a ton of worldbuilding available in form of countries, major "faction" (United Federation, etc), the animal world has nearly non of it (except nameless town). The Acorn Kingdom and stuff like the Freedom Fighter would fit the best in such a universe, as it's basically a "funny animal world that have been invaded by Eggman/Robotnik", a bit like SatAM. Their backstory would be really easy to implement (they have been invaded during the Eggman invasion, they had no contact with the resistance and such as to save themselves), and something like the "Acorn Kingdom" would add a faction in the animal world. So I think that when/if they are used, they'll be something that could help the universe to grow and now that they aren't the main focus, they will less bother games fans while still keeping happy comic-book fans (that have got through a lot with the Archie problems).

But what's great is that with how the universe is done, they can implement them in a few years if they want. The place is here, and they can easily add this world-building bit when it will fit great. But I'd rather have them for the moment focus on their story, and then expand the universe (and waiting for the right time will make their return more of an event).

 

1 hour ago, Kazhnuz said:

There is a huge difference between adding Classic Sonic and adding the FF. The FF could be integrated well in this universe because the premise is adapted and won't make them the core of the comic-book (because that was the problem with most people : not having enough time for core character).

 

Pretty much.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I like the Freedom Fighters really I do but the insistence that they absolutely need to be here is making me hope they never appear again.

To be fair, they'd probably be used better here than in the games

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There are some people I won't mention that are spamming in every twitter or deviantart or facebook page related to Sonic that they hope to see them again. I saw these at least 100 times! And people are noticing this spamming.

This behavior makes me appalled and makes me hope the FF not coming back.

And trust me, I was like that before, I used to spam other comics's official sites to get an old logo back (TWD) and even after 60 spamming comments and 100 upvotes from others who also wanted the old logo back, the company did not revert to the old logo.

So if he reads it here I hope he understands.

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6 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

There are some people I won't mention that are spamming in every twitter or deviantart or facebook page related to Sonic that they hope to see them again. I saw these at least 100 times! And people are noticing this spamming.

This behavior makes me appalled and makes me hope the FF not coming back.

Oh! People who really liked something want to see it again in some form--how abomidable!

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22 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

This behavior makes me appalled and makes me hope the FF not coming back.

1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

People my lord  the freedom fighters are NOT coming back the quicker people accept that the better.

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

I like the Freedom Fighters really I do but the insistence that they absolutely need to be here is making me hope they never appear again.

How many times are we gonna play the "get over it" game in this fucking topic? I'm not gonna tolerate this bullshit anymore, especially since the most recent discussion surrounding the Freedom Fighters has been cordial enough - next person I see stirring up this shit again gets an immediate strike. These responses are unnecessary and serve no purpose other than to rile other fans up.

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They are people spamming about many things in this fandom, including a subject that is forbidden to post a new topic about here (IDK if just mentioning that is off-limit) 😛 There always will be annoying people in a fanbase, and tbh I disagree that something should not happen just because they are annoying. People that wanted a new classic game talked about it for *years*. And tbh, the "spammers" are a few person (I know only one real spammer, tbh, as when I muted him on twitter I didn't see much spam anymore). Not to mention that for a part of people that are angry about that, it's amplified by the lack of the classic character, as both were part of something that was liked with Flynn : his capacity to reuse old characters. For many people it's a whole, not just the lack of the FF. Personally I'm already happy with what I have (even if I would like to see more character fitted in its universe), but I can understand why some people that loved Flynn works before can be unhappy.

About furry drama and romance, the whole fandom represent that a lot, with all its "shipping war" and stuff like that (that's a thing that also come back a lot when people are mocking the fandom). And that didn't stop SEGA to add the avatar stuff that is a direct reference to the fan-character. TBH, the second continuity of Archie wasn't that much associated with "furry drama" and "romance" (especially in comic-book circle and review stuff) except from some fans that didn't know how it was. The real reason why they don't like (or we think so, I'm not sure that "not having them in the official game" is "not liking them" them) is the same reason a lot of character didn't come back post-Adventure : "not done by us". We know that the Sonic Team prefer home-made stuff (and yep, Dimps' games character are also made by the Sonic Team. I say that because not everybody know that), and doesn't care much about the rest…

About how much it's possible that they come back or not, I think that everything is possible. SEGA change the rules quite often (Cream and Omega have been offlimit, now classic-only character are, etc). And SEGA haven't really been strongly opposed to non-SEGA character in the comic book, most often their rules are about their character (Mephiles and Black Doom being off-limit because dead, and what I talked about earlier). TBH for me it's really as possible that they accept as it is that they refuse… And even if they refuse they could accept it later, with a change in direction (like we didn't get Mighty and Ray before 2018 in the game). The biggest risk would be some kind of bizarre licencing/rights problem, SEGA-style.

But what I think is that it won't be year two, nor three, but "later". In a moment where the comic-book will be well established and defined, and when they'll be able to add more element. We are just in the "building" phase of the comic-book, and it will take a bit of time before everything is established. We are just 7 issues since the beggining, we have never been in the human world at the moment (so Flynn desn't even had the time to say to us why GUN is absent in Force :'D), there is a large part of the world we haven't seen yet, many possibility of stories that are more urgent. So I think that they might come eventually, but it won't be really soon. For the moment there is many things to do, and Flynn have already made the mistake of trying to push everything too fast, so I think this time he'll take this time before adding new stuff.

So long story short, I think that they have a good chance to come back one day, but that it won't be soon.

 

( And I've already said everything I've got to say about if they *should* be here : it's not "necessary" in itself, but they would integrate well enough in that universe, and could be a way to add world-building to the part of this new world that could use some, while being more familiar to a part of the fandom than a completely new faction. So not necessary, but that could be useful. And I quite like them so I would be happy :V )

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