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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Can a mod contact me please cause it seems hard to discuss things not knowing what is allowed what is not. Or I can PM one cause getting a strike from discussing a point seems hard. Someone says the story is not doing it for them cause the ff are not in it and want them to maybe show up and  I make the claim since they were archie's child they are not coming back and that leads to being called out as trying to rile people up when all I'm doing is trying to have a conversation on idws comic while at work. Seriously its stressful not knowing what's going lead to anger these days

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If it's because of what I'm saying at the start of my post : I'm just talking about the first forbidden topic in the title of the pinned post here (the second one), not anything we talked about, sorry ^^' The reason I said that is that I don't know if just mentioning it is forbidden is because I know that this subject that when mentionned, can rapidly evolve in a discussion about the subject. That's why I'm being overly cautious about that xD (and it's not helped by my english that can be sometime just a literal translation of how I would say it in french)

Sorry if my post seemed to calling you out or criticizing you, my goal was just to explain why some people were angry at the decision of them not appearing, not that people should or would have the right be angry about some other fan not wanting them or thinking that they won't happen. Sorry if you felt targeted by my post, I was trying to explain why many people weren't happy with the current situation about characters.

I never said that you or anybody else did anything wrong, sorry if I made anybody think that.

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Lol everyone can have a opinion.  I'm just talking. About the comic. If you like certain aspects of the comic or others is fine. Everyone has a opinion and should have that right. I like neo metal, some dont and that's fine at the end of the day we still like the franchise overall. I'm just trying to talk about stuff sonic while at work lol

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8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Did I ever ask about personally rating the issues?

Dont think so. Artwise alone 2 and 7 get 10s. The story is doing slow world setup.  ala like bleach or naruto almost.  I'd like eggman to stay Mr tinker a little longer.   like I honesty feel like he's trying to be good. I dont know

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8 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Dont think so. Artwise alone 2 and 7 get 10s. The story is doing slow world setup.  ala like bleach or naruto almost.  I'd like eggman to stay Mr tinker a little longer.   like I honesty feel like he's trying to be good. I dont know

For me it's (artwise):

Issue 1,5,6: 7/10 (Yardley's fine but less dynamic than Stanley and ABT)

Issue 4: 9/10 (Evan draws great expressions and actions scenes)

Issue 2,7: 10/10 (These are done by ABT, the best artist of the book)

Issue 3: 6/10 (Jen Hernandez' sketches are good, but her inks makes her drawings look bad, I'd rather have an inker do the inks for her)

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25 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Dont think so. 

Okay, I recall wanting to do so but couldn't find any evidence through the search.

 

Well then, in order of overall quality/substance/liking, my ranking is2 & 7(Great/Best), 5(Good), 3(Good-ish/Okay), 4&1(Indifferent/Meh), and 6(Least/Weak).

Expecting 5 to get a dance partner soon.

 

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I honestly think that it's a little bit too early to rate the IDW comics. The thing is only starting to gain momentum, and as we know, the first few issues of Sonic comics are usually pretty mediocre (Remember Archie's or Fleetway's corny beginnings?), so I think we should wait a good ten or so issues to get a good look at the entire thing. I mean, it can go straight into shitstorm territory, like it happened with Archie, or it can just sorta... End, like Fleetway did. 

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What was 6 about again.

Also something I like about the comic is the gah dang number of vairents. Like lord. But idw has always done that like with mlp  I'd like to buy them all but at like 3 dollars a pop actually builds fast

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1 hour ago, TheUltimateHedgy said:

I honestly think that it's a little bit too early to rate the IDW comics. The thing is only starting to gain momentum, and as we know, the first few issues of Sonic comics are usually pretty mediocre (Remember Archie's or Fleetway's corny beginnings?), so I think we should wait a good ten or so issues to get a good look at the entire thing. I mean, it can go straight into shitstorm territory, like it happened with Archie, or it can just sorta... End, like Fleetway did. 

I mean this early on is the only time it's really viable to rank a book by issue, which is what people are doing here. XP Like...can you imagine a few years from now? "Here's my ranking: 69 > 25 > 24 > 12 > 18..."

Unless you mean a final verdict kind of thing. I'd say it's too early for that, I guess, but is anyone doing that?

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4 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I mean this early on is the only time it's really viable to rank a book by issue, which is what people are doing here. XP Like...can you imagine a few years from now? "Here's my ranking: 69 > 25 > 24 > 12 > 18..."

 

Ch'yeah, woof! :lol:

1 hour ago, TheUltimateHedgy said:

I honestly think that it's a little bit too early to rate the IDW comics. The thing is only starting to gain momentum, and as we know, the first few issues of Sonic comics are usually pretty mediocre (Remember Archie's or Fleetway's corny beginnings?), so I think we should wait a good ten or so issues to get a good look at the entire thing. I mean, it can go straight into shitstorm territory, like it happened with Archie, or it can just sorta... End, like Fleetway did. 

Well, we got enough issues to go Super, so it seemed like a decent way to pass the time in comparison.

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1 hour ago, TheUltimateHedgy said:

I honestly think that it's a little bit too early to rate the IDW comics. The thing is only starting to gain momentum, and as we know, the first few issues of Sonic comics are usually pretty mediocre (Remember Archie's or Fleetway's corny beginnings?), so I think we should wait a good ten or so issues to get a good look at the entire thing. I mean, it can go straight into shitstorm territory, like it happened with Archie, or it can just sorta... End, like Fleetway did. 

Well, while the earlier issues are pretty bad, I argue that they were a lot more interesting than IDW currently. They were a lot more zany and wild that you can't help but enjoy them. Also, they were for kids, and only got more serious as the kids themselves grew up. IDW, on the other hand, is slow and kinda boring, IMO, and is only now starting to pick up. No doubt that it will find its footing, but hopefully it doesn't get cancelled before then.

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15 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Maybe one of the reasons I want to see the Freedom Fighters is because my favorite issue so far has been issue 4 and Tangle was one of the major reasons for that (Blaze and Evan too). It felt like it had something new or different to say, and introducing newly rebooted Freedom Fighters would feel that way too. We know they wouldn't be like in Archie Sonic pre or post-reboot at the very least, meaning there would be something to look forward to.

Reading the book right now is very hard because it honestly feels like there's nothing exciting to latch onto. Too much time is being spent on introducing the secondary or possibly tertiary cast without establishing an environment or narrative outside of them. We've had 7 issues so far and outside of the Egg Fleet flagship, none of the locations even remotely stand out. The characters are being introduced, but not in a way that lets the reader get to know them; you're expected to know who this cast is (IDW originals notwithstanding) and it hurts the book being able to stand on it's own without the games backdrop.

Ian and company keep insisting this is a new continuity, and I get it; it's not like the games are going to start referencing what happens in the American spin-off comic. But even if this were canon to the games, I still expect the story to be structured in a way that let's characters be introduced in a setting that plays off their strengths, personalities, and relationships so I can be interested in seeing them again. The closest we've gotten to that are issue 4 and Sonic and Shadow (arguably Mr. Tinker) in issue 6. Nothing else stands out, it's all blurring together.

Compare this to how Ian structured Countdown to Chaos. Each Freedom Fighter was given specific focus to show off who they were and what role they filled while in the background and to the side new characters were shown off, varied locations got to be given focus, the Unleashed narrative was getting setup, and all of that was on top of the dual memory sub-plot. That story had much more baggage and expectations placed on it, and yet it still succeeded at being a better new launch story than IDW has even attempted so far.

I don't know if Ian is just trying to set the bar as low as he can as he feels out what IDW wants out of the book, or if the reason Ian's stories in Archie Sonic were so good was because the likes of Kaminski and Lovallo had a better sense of story management, flow, and understanding of the material than Hughes and Mariotte do. I don't know, but for the most part it's just coming off so far as a bland promotional tool for Forces leading into the franchise in general rather than content that wants to actually tell an engaging story that'll still be going 5-10 years from now. In that way, it feels a lot more like how pre-reboot Archie started rather than post-reboot come to think of it.

I'm going to keep reading it no matter what, but I do hope it gets better at some point.

This is actually kind of interesting. The split between us couldn't be anymore prominent because my thoughts are kind of the exact opposite at the moment. It would seem that now there's even a split in the fanbase who even enjoy the comics now. 

I ultimately enjoyed the first four issues for the most part. I don't really agree that the way they started out was slow enough to warrant too much of a backlash considering the number of issues it took for the conflict to take off was an exceedingly low number in my eyes. Not to mention, getting the first four issues out in one month helped with that immensely. I remember hearing stuff like this from the instant the first issue dropped, which I found kind of baffling. I figured it showcased the dynamic between Sonic and Tails well enough and established who the two are and what their relationship to one another is. The only real hold over there was the fact that the events were coming off of Sonic Forces, which is a problem that could be rectified by watching the cutscenes on Youtube. Forces isn't a complicated game and it's story is massively underwritten to the point that it wouldn't be a hassle at all for new readers to get caught up.

I think my favorite of the first four is definitely still Issue 2. I'm still in the mindset that considers how it wrote Amy to be the most impressive, clear and concise handling of all the traits that make up her character and it single handedly improved my opinion of her (even though she was already a character I liked). I couldn't imagine anyone reading that and not getting down with what she's about there. Issue 4 was good enough to be my second favorite of the batch, as it did do a good job of showcasing how a Resistance type movement and the people within it could showcase themselves as individuals tied to the modern universe without exploiting the old concept of the Freedom Fighters again. It's kind of one of the reasons why I don't find them all that necessary. The weakest one at doing what you've asked, in my opinion, is Issue 3 because aside from Knuckles' personality, it doesn't really do much to set the boundaries of who and what his character is and is instead solely focused on resolving this incidental conflict that's ultimately pretty hard to care about, no matter how charming those two new villains are.

I also agree that the settings being pretty bland and hard to get a handle on do help with making the issues blend together but I feel the character moments were so strong that they were easily identified by who showed up in which issue rather than the nameless village they were occupying. At the moment, none of it's too big a deal because not every location they visit is one I'm expecting to have too much nuance but it's also a factor I hope gets resolved as things go on. 

Truthfully, though, comparing this to Countdown to Chaos has me see the way this comic began in a much more positive light. I don't know how controversial an opinion this is, but I thought Countdown to Chaos was an absolute mess. Things got much better of course. Some of my favorite stories in Archie Sonic happened during the that Reboot period but the way it started, I wasn't a fan of at all. I didn't like Countdown to Chaos and I HATED Pirate Plunder Panic. 

The only real advantage I feel Countdown to Chaos had were all the varied locations, and even then I don't feel like it mattered too much in the grand scheme of things. At the most, it just served to make things more of a blur in my mind because of how much baggage and exposition was being tossed at us. I'm someone who actually read the Pre-Reboot continuity and I could barely follow it without having to re-read something or ask for clarification on something on the forum. I'd feel sorry for anyone who wanted to pick up the comics and got started with that. It started out with Ixis Naugus (a guy whom you've probably never seen or heard of before if you didn't watch specific episodes of SatAM or read the comics) screaming his head off in fear and running off for no reason while Sonic and Tails face down a gigantic orange robot that the reader probably wouldn't know upon first look was supposed to be the Tails Doll. It does a right old job of confusing you quick. Then they start getting into talk of memories and how things are shifted from what they were before to muddy the waters even more.

The memory sub-plot shouldn't have been there. At all. All it did was confuse things at the start of the reboot and then it disappeared entirely as a plot point as things went on. Anyone who read that and saw those flashes of images from a story they haven't read coming back to those characters' minds would be understandably confused by what the characters were reacting to and whether or not it was going to have any influence on the story moving forward. It didn't, thankfully, but that doesn't make for a very comfortable read.

The supposed the "benefit" to all this is the fact that the story started in media res as opposed to the IDW comics which are starting after a resolved conflict from a game. Now, I know that starting in media res can provide you with quicker access to the conflict but I do prefer and understand why the IDW comics started the way they do. After a conflict, hell after a reboot or a timeskip, things are shifted to square one again and as such you need time to build up from the high you were on once more. People are understandably going to be more judgemental of something that's just starting over again after coming off of something that had built itself up already. The talent it takes to be able to satisfy people by cleaning the slate and starting again is something that shouldn't be dismissed. A lot of people screw it up. I'm personally of the opinion that the main conflict kicked off in Issue 5 with bits and pieces of it being hinted at during the first four issues. Because of the manner of their release, this ended up being a lot more comfortable for me. 

Comparatively, I remember the Countdown to Chaos stuff being a little too fast for its own good. What it had to do to set up for the Unleashed subplot wasn't too much, thankfully (Eggman broke the world. Uncle Chuck was collecting some spores and it got into Sonic face. Now he's looking for the Gaia Temples), but all the clutter surrounding it almost broke me. I remember one scene in particular where Sonic and Tails meet up with Muttski. I barely had any clue who Muttski was. I only knew who he was because of a random issue of the comic I read once where they were playing with this realistic ass dog and I called it a random thing when I was talking about it on another forum. Some guy responded by asking if I didn't know who Muttski was and... yeah I didn't. So when he shows up and he's all anthropomorphized now, Sonic and Tails' confused reaction was something I kind of shared a bit too. It took me a minute but I eventually remembered what the context for him was and why it was weird he was that way but... I'm trying to imagine a new reader getting into that. You wouldn't be able to come in new and just accept him as a new character that they just know because the entire point of the scene is that Sonic and Tails are reacting to something being different from what THEY know and if you don't know what THEY know then the scene is lost on you and the context of the characters is inherently more important. The whole thing still came off as something you'd need passing knowledge of the previous Archie series, as well as SatAM, and the games to fully get into, rather than just the plot of one of the recent titles that came out.

Holy moly, that's a lot of shit I just wrote. 

The point is, I'm kind of interested in seeing where things go from here, not just for the comic but for the split in the base that's both enjoying it and not enjoying it. If there's a way for all of us to be on board again without necessarily relying on the Freedom Fighters again, I hope it comes to pass. I've already talked enough about the Freedom Fighters and why, even in a new context, I don't want to see them again so I'll leave that be. 

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

This is actually kind of interesting. The split between us couldn't be anymore different because my thoughts are kind of the exact opposite at the moment. It would seem that now there's even a split in the fanbase who even enjoy the comics now.

Nice art btw

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Personally, I prefer for the Freedom Fighters to not appear in the IDW comic as I feel this needs to be something that it's separate from previous comics/cartoons.

Something I felt a bit limiting in the Archie comic, even after the post-reboot and despite the very notable improvement in how older characters like Sally were handled, I never liked the idea of the game cast being made part of some kind of heroe assemble/rebelion such as the Freedom Fighters, given how such a thing kept them from being individual characters who have their own lives, their own personal goals and who do their own thing like in the games. It felt like in the Archie comic they were always on a mission that was always related to the war between the FF's and the Eggman Empire, leaving very little room to show a bit about their lives, something that under the right writer can be told in a way that feels like an adventure too.

Right now the characters have the Resistance thing going on because of how the comic picks up after Sonic Forces, though personally I hope this does not last for too long since I'd really like to see what can be done outside of that theme.

The other thing is that given how the book comes only once per month, I prefer for it to remain focused on the game cast for the most part (especially when they not only get more screen time than in the games, but are also better written too), with comic exclusive characters working more as a support cast for them instead of competing with the game cast, which is something that would happen again if the Freedom Fighters were to be reintroduced.

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26 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

 

The other thing is that given how the book comes only once per month, I prefer for it to remain focused on the game cast for the most part (especially when they not only get more screen time than in the games, but are also better written too), with comic exclusive characters working more as a support cast for them instead of competing with the game cast, which is something that would happen again if the Freedom Fighters were to be reintroduced.

I wholely doubt that claim.

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Same here. The comic have already show that it would be mostly about the "core cast". It's not the addition of something that would change this direction, especially as it was already the biggest criticism about the seconde Archie continuity. That's why I'm all for the "let's wait to get them in the best moment" : I think that they should first get the universe clearly defined, and the core cast installed. And TBH, I would be all for having great characters from some other continuity come here xD (For instance Sticks, as she was even featured in the anniversary comics on Sonic Channel), and all in one, I hope we will get more character, and more importantly, an bigger sense of "places" (with some places that have their own characters and that can be a setting for future story. Like Meropis was in the old comic-book.). For the moment it's normal that we don't have that yet (their are focused on their first story), but I hope we will get that kind of unique and interesting location later (and I feel that just dropping some name, making at least one of the visited town stand out and have something special, would have been nice).

About the one comic-book per month, I really hope it'll change in the few first year, because I miss my double dose of Sonic comic per month xD I'm not sure about what would please me the most, though. A "Universe-like" comic would be really nice, because Sonic have a ton of character that could use being the star of the month. (And it often was were Flynn made his better stuff, imo), but now that a part of the cast is classic-exclusive, I would really like a Mania/Classic book. If it was up to me I would say "why not both", but let's not get greedy… xD

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12 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Personally, I prefer for the Freedom Fighters to not appear in the IDW comic as I feel this needs to be something that it's separate from previous comics/cartoons.

Something I felt a bit limiting in the Archie comic, even after the post-reboot and despite the very notable improvement in how older characters like Sally were handled, I never liked the idea of the game cast being made part of some kind of heroe assemble/rebelion such as the Freedom Fighters, given how such a thing kept them from being individual characters who have their own lives, their own personal goals and who do their own thing like in the games. It felt like in the Archie comic they were always on a mission that was always related to the war between the FF's and the Eggman Empire, leaving very little room to show a bit about their lives, something that under the right writer can be told in a way that feels like an adventure too.

How is that really any different from how the games have been doing things for arguably the past two decades? A lot of times Sonic is part of this ensemble, the core cast as one group prefers as opposed to the Freedom Fighters, that goes around fighting Eggman’s schemes. And how often do we see them as individuals who have their own lives there outside of that in the games (nevermind the number of times the comics have actually done this, especially during the dull Penders-era that earned its bad reception in hindsight)? 

I don’t see how bringing the FFs back would mark a return to that anymore than I don’t get why the thought of having the FF adapt to this setting without that is never considered an option when the discussion is brought up.

Quote

Right now the characters have the Resistance thing going on because of how the comic picks up after Sonic Forces, though personally I hope this does not last for too long since I'd really like to see what can be done outside of that theme.

The other thing is that given how the book comes only once per month, I prefer for it to remain focused on the game cast for the most part (especially when they not only get more screen time than in the games, but are also better written too), with comic exclusive characters working more as a support cast for them instead of competing with the game cast, which is something that would happen again if the Freedom Fighters were to be reintroduced.

Or they could just share like they did back in Archie.

Honestly, this is the part that really gets me: why is it always seen as them competing with the game cast whenever they’re present? Especially when in actuality, they’re not? It doesn’t have to be, nor is it, a competition—that’s not how writing a good story works. 

Even with the comic and cartoon characters in Archie, the game cast have had plenty of focus, often alongside them. You can even see that in the way the FF are grouped: Sonic, Tails, Amy, Cream, and even Big as the game members with Sally, Rotor, Antoine, and Bunnie as the non-game cast—if we excluded Big, that’s a pretty even split, one that the game cast ends up with a slight majority if Big was recognized.

So this idea of them having to compete really doesn’t make sense to me. 

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