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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I don't think we will get past the " everyone hits " problem until there are 2 or more books in that continuity. A lot of the more popular characters while they do have other traits that would make them invaluable also hit people. And in the case of shadow, those traits will be downplayed because protagonist ( sonic ) isn't equipped to handle thoughts that complicated. 

I feel like we will get more versatile characters and better characters when there is more room to work with. Or at least I hope, anyway. As of currently shit doesn't seem like it matters and everyone hitting everything, so it is what it is 

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Tbf, you need to remember that this is an action comic, so it's almost a given that the primary focus will be characters hitting robots. Also, didn't Rouge pretty much 

 

tip off Sonic and the Chaotix to Eggman's whereabouts and thereby, helping save his life, without having to fight?

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Even if I agree that they should make less fight-focused the comic-book, by allowing it to breath more, I think that it was mostly the first arc that was too much badnic-brawl heavy. In this perspective I did found the three following issues way better, by having more too it.

But basically, I agree that for me, for the moment it's a weak point of IDWSonic compared to ArchieSonic : there is not a lot going on, and the comic might benefit from major non-fighter character (or half-fighter, a bit like Nigel Acorn that was a non-fighter during most of what we seen, and then after… BOOM energetic sword and shield - okay after that he got wrecked, but it was pretty cool xD) that have other set of skills that can handle other type of situations. I hope it'll get better on this point with time, after year 1. What I miss the most what when he dropped some clues about future arc, like "the trolls of the second civilization".

I also hope (and think, because I still think that most of this is because it's the beginning) that with time, we will get some arc that were more focused about other things, like character-developpement/evolution (a bit like the Bunnie and Tails flashback during post-reboot), discovering a new location with its own small world (like the Meropis arc, I loved this one because it felt a bit like a condensed version of what could be a game story - excluding the tie to Unleashed of course), filler/funny arc (like Champions that was really fun), or half-sequel to some games (like the Eclipse arc).

 

I think that here, Flynn is trying to not repeat the Shattered World Crisis, by having a smaller "first arc" (the fact that it's just a "one-year arc, that it have a smaller plot, no filler, etc…), but a bit too much for me. But it's still enjoyable with me, and I think that it'll get better when Flynn will have a better hand on his new world, new plots, etc. He had for the second time to start anew all his plan, when he used a lot of Sonic idea for the second archie continuity. Here he have to do it differently (two-world and no-classic might help him a bit on making it different than ArchieSonic, but they also give him new constraint), and I think that with time we will get new stuff. Or maybe I'm just wrong and I'm too optimistic, but I'll keep being optimistic. If i remember correctly, he said that he would make more worldbuilding later.

( I hope that Aleah Baker will come back on writing story, too. She was really good at making stories that were different from the basic formula. Same for Evan Stanley and Tracy Yardley, I hope they'll some arc in the future, especially if we get new series for IDWSonic. )

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Sally is no more of a non-combatant than Cream, so if that's the bar we are setting than its only a matter of time before more non-combatants enter the fray.

I think as time goes on, and the conflict of the main stories expands a bit, we will be able to have more characters that are less combat focused. We will always have brutes and scrappers littering the landscape - as this is an action oriented comic - but Ian has a penchant for leveraging proxy characters into horrible situations. Some of his best characters were non-combatants that were forced to take up arms due to bad situations. Characters like Clove who followed in Sally's blueprint. A capable fighter for someone with no powers, but more-so shred, cunning and calm enough to think around her problems and avoid a scrap.

Even if the villain roster fails to expand to half of what Ian was going for with the Egg Bosses, you have to think more cooler heads type will emerge at some point - and the same goes for the heroes. They will need some more tactical minds in the room at some point, particularly if the resistance is to remain effective in the long term, or whenever Team Sonic decides to move on from running that show.

 

I don't see the point in highlighting the entire casts penchant for smashing bots though. To me that's kind of like complaining about Batman having too many gadgets in his utility belt.

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8 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

But what really intersted me is point that "everyone is for punching. If you haven't watched the video, here are his arguments

  Reveal hidden contents

He compared it to Satam. Sonic for action, Sally was for sneaking, Antoine for messing things up. Everyone had his own skills that forced tactics, different usage, etc. In IDW (rather games overall) everyone is a 'puncher", any team up doesn't forces new strategies, just different flashy combos.

Especially he pointed that to Tangle, new character who's whole role is punching badniks in new way.

What you guys think about that?

I mean, sure. Sonic has few "not-punhcers", Games have Vanilla or Marine (barely exist), Preboot had all the parent figures (but even Elias or Mina had some fighting skills) and Reboot was probably the closest to having proper "not punchers". Coral, Relic, princess Undina, Ellidy, Breezie, etc. Best example would be Gold and Shlemmer who actually contributed to fighting the villains, with no fighting on their part (but this wasn't written by Flynn, soooo,,,,) So maybe IDW just needs few more issues to introduce few essential not-fighters.

And look at Freedom Fighters themself. In Archie they they stareted similar to Satam, but as time went Antoine and Tails become competent fighter, while Rotor retired (until Flynn put him in a suit, arming him). So for decent amount of time Sally was the only non-fighter central character. I think it worked, but I kinda see why Flynn weaponized her in Reboot.

in the end I would say that Satam/early-Archie was closer to Ducktales or Gravity Falls where fighting was secondary to overall adventure. IDW/games/late-Archie are closer to Marvel/DC or most Video Games, where you MUST be able to fight to be a central character.

(I wonder if it could been minimalized with creative challenges. Bomb to dissable, death trap to escape, something like this)



 

I agree that I enjoy having different types of characters to speciate the cast, with civilians and neutrals making the world feel more, for lack of a better word, real.

Unfortunately, there is sometimes a stigma about Non-Badass characters, especially in regards to an action-heavy series.

3 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

When will we finally get proper worldbuilding with new locations's name?

We had a character that is not a fighter that was very involved in issue 5 (the mayor), and we didn't even get his name.

 

And Lanolin and the Gatekeeper, technically.

But yeah, the Mayor has been the most plot involved of the three and yet he & his town(much like another) aren't even named. 

They need to start solving that problem along with the others soon.

1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

Tbf, you need to remember that this is an action comic, so it's almost a given that the primary focus will be characters hitting robots. Also, didn't Rouge pretty much 

  Hide contents

tip off Sonic and the Chaotix to Eggman's whereabouts and thereby, helping save his life, without having to fight?

Meh.

One of the very few pieces of non-action driven in that issue and all it really makes me do is want to question the current status of associated background more, plus the merits of the archetype.

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1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

Tbf, you need to remember that this is an action comic, so it's almost a given that the primary focus will be characters hitting robots. Also, didn't Rouge pretty much 

  Hide contents

tip off Sonic and the Chaotix to Eggman's whereabouts and thereby, helping save his life, without having to fight?

Considering how I feel about the entire premise of that fight that's sort of nothing. Congratulations? You stopped a giant edgy baby from being an edgy baby. I wish she wasn't mommying characters who honestly shouldn't and don't need that and doing her own thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Considering how I feel about the entire premise of that fight that's sort of nothing. Congratulations? You stopped a giant edgy baby from being an edgy baby. I wish she wasn't mommying characters who honestly shouldn't and don't need that and doing her own thing.  

Why do you call your favorite character an edgy baby? 😛

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23 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Even if the villain roster fails to expand to half of what Ian was going for with the Egg Bosses, you have to think more cooler heads type will emerge at some point - and the same goes for the heroes. They will need some more tactical minds in the room at some point, particularly if the resistance is to remain effective in the long term, or whenever Team Sonic decides to move on from running that show.

That's kinda what I thought Tumble and especially the Mystery Villiain would be.

 

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Yeah, a lot of what he said in the video is stuff that I've gone on about myself, though, it's been mostly directed towards how I've felt reading the Archie books. There's a much more obvious positive overflow of emotion on my end when it comes to these IDW comics so far due to a lot of it being centered around the general world and characterization I've always wanted from a Sonic comic, but the problems with Flynn's writing do persist in some areas.

I've got a lot more heavy optimism than usual that things will get even better than they already are though. My biggest complaint throughout all of the comics even stands a chance at being fixed as Issue 7 ended up having one of the best fights I've ever seen in relation to Sonic. I was waiting for a combat scene to outdo the Sonic and Megaman vs. Metal Sonic and Bass one from the first crossover and I doubted it'd ever happen. Seven issues into this one and it did. At least for me.

Things could very well return to the typical "smash robot splash panels" formula but I'm happy that there's a chance it might not. Actual cool as fuck fight choreography would be neat to see become a mainstream thing for these books.

And yeah, the plot twist reveal is another thing I've gone on about. While everyone was concerned about whether or not they were going to see a new character, an old character, or whether or not who it was would satisfy them, my position was that I was enjoying it regardless because I thought the mystery as it related to the situation at hand was interesting. I was more into what was going on at the time. I cared very little about the person's identity which is why I didn't get all hot and bothered at the end of Issue 5 when "Eggman" supposedly revealed himself. Who it was didn't really matter too me. I just wanted to know what the deal with Mr. Tinker was and how the reveal that it was Eggman shifted what we understood about Eggman's position within the story.

Feels rather nice seeing someone else approach it from a sort-of similar position. I don't necessarily agree that it being Eggman or Metal Sonic is inconsequential to the plot. If it actually had turned out to be Eggman, the Mr. Tinker subplot would be a lot different from what it is now that it's actually Metal Sonic. 

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9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

That's kinda what I thought Tumble and especially the Mystery Villiain would be.

A tactician skunk character would kind of be "on the nose" don't ya think? Probably not a road you want to go down.

 

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9 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

A tactician skunk character would kind of be "on the nose" don't ya think? Probably not a road you want to go down.

 

Wuh-huh-at? :lol:

To specify, I meant in comparison to his smaller brother. Which may or may not be saying much, but it'd match up with his temperament in concept art and the covers while slightly diverging the two character-wise.

 

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20 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Why do you call your favorite character an edgy baby? 😛

Because I'm not up my own butt enough to where every sentence needs to sing shadows praises. Lets be frank, shadows a dick and sometimes he's wrong. The former is his thing and the latter promotes growth. I just don't think this past story did it well and he came off as a baby that sort of wasted everyone time and needed his mommy to placate him. There are better ways to tell this story, this was one of the worst ways, and he came off as a giant edgy baby, hopefully he doesn't come off as one in the future. 

That's it

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3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Because I'm not up my own butt enough to where every sentence needs to sing shadows praises. Lets be frank, shadows a dick and sometimes he's wrong. The former is his thing and the latter promotes growth. I just don't think this past story did it well and he came off as a baby that sort of wasted everyone time and needed his mommy to placate him. There are better ways to tell this story, this was one of the worst ways, and he came off as a giant edgy baby, hopefully he doesn't come off as one in the future. 

That's it

Well, at least you admit that he's flawed unlike... well, you all know, so I'm not gonna call anyone out.

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I like the action driven issues myself. It puts the art as the focus and this book has some amazing talent on it so each issue has been a treat. 

I don't think I've ever said it but issue 7 was a blast because of the fight being the focus. Been craving this kind of action from the series and ABT knocked it out the park. 

 

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The fight is so visceral and satisfying. I wouldn't be opposed to more layered plots but only if issues like this keep happening. 

 

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How good the fight was with neo metal sonic is also what makes me upset at the shadow issue. I think I mentioned, if the fight sonic and shadow was cool, while I wasn't fond of it, I could have gotten over the subpar story because the whole point was the fight. The issue before and after 6 show how to do all what 6 failed to do way way better. Hopefully they take more from those and less from 6 ( and less from 3 too, to be honest )  in the future. 

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Well I mean. He has a point. If the story of your issue will mostly be focused on a fight with tons of emotion then you want to have a solid sense of weight behind the action and really solid delivery on the facial expressions. It's odd too because... Tracey was extremely good at facial expressions because they're a cartoonist. Then comes IDW and he's just not emoting in his art like he did back at Archie. 

It feels subpar and hollow compared to the more passionate takes you'd get from the Archie series. Also? Your heroes were allowed to lose fights sometimes in the Archie book. Almost every time Sonic and his friends always get the upper hand even with him retreating in Issue 7 which would have been a great issue. The art was phenomenal and ABT is still a boon to this book in their manga styled take on these books. I wonder how big a fan he is of Mr. Oda. But the story surprise. Well. It works. But it's predictable. 

That's where the book is. It's formulaic in ways that feel like pandering. 

Also, I was kind of hoping that Whisper was blind and could have been this book's Bunnie Rabbot where you have a disabled Sonic character, but it's just a quirk with characters who close their eyes I guess? I was hoping the name Whisper meant that she was blind and thus had to listen to her environment in order to react to things. See, that would have been fun, yeah? Instead she's coming off as an assassin type and while that is technically new for Sonic it's not as interesting to me as what I was coming up with. 

Still, I hope Tangle and her become girlfriends. If the characters could have more relationship and goals other than doing things for the reason of if they're good or bad that'd be nice. That's what I loved about Archie. All of the characters filled a unique niche. The Meropis story with Coral, Pearlie, and Razor was really fulfilling as also being a unique departure in what was essentially a comic adaptation of Sonic Unleashed. Characters were quickly made clear and you got to know them quick and focus on them for a long time. They spent four issues on Meropis but Tangle has only got one issue so far with nothing to latch onto. Same goes for Rough and Tumble and it feels like the same will happen to Whisper. I want a reason to like these characters, please. Give me something more than a neat ability or joke or something. I feel like someone needs to look back at Disney comics and Early Silver Age when the books were goofy and had characters like Stilt Man to figure out how to make a true impression. My Hero Academia would be a really great example of something to look to in how to write an action series like Sonic where you have the action but overall still have more to this story than just the good fight. 

It's kind of why I liked Sonic having an uncle too as well as his brother Tails. He had a reason to care. His friends were his family but it's kind of... not brought up anymore. He fights to fight. I feel like one of the things kids like about cartoons these days is how much they connect with the characters having issues beyond just fighting or really good reasons for fights breaking out. It's why I haven't taken well to this emotionless Sonic Sega wants to sell. I liked my characters for having feelings. Take that away and they've become roboticized. Which is darkly funny when you consider Eggman and his Robots once represented Nintendo and its friendly approach to making products for consumption. 

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15 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

Well I mean. He has a point. If the story of your issue will mostly be focused on a fight with tons of emotion then you want to have a solid sense of weight behind the action and really solid delivery on the facial expressions. It's odd too because... Tracey was extremely good at facial expressions because they're a cartoonist. Then comes IDW and he's just not emoting in his art like he did back at Archie. 

It feels subpar and hollow compared to the more passionate takes you'd get from the Archie series. Also? Your heroes were allowed to lose fights sometimes in the Archie book. Almost every time Sonic and his friends always get the upper hand even with him retreating in Issue 7 which would have been a great issue. The art was phenomenal and ABT is still a boon to this book in their manga styled take on these books. I wonder how big a fan he is of Mr. Oda. But the story surprise. Well. It works. But it's predictable. 

That's where the book is. It's formulaic in ways that feel like pandering. 

Also, I was kind of hoping that Whisper was blind and could have been this book's Bunnie Rabbot where you have a disabled Sonic character, but it's just a quirk with characters who close their eyes I guess? I was hoping the name Whisper meant that she was blind and thus had to listen to her environment in order to react to things. See, that would have been fun, yeah? Instead she's coming off as an assassin type and while that is technically new for Sonic it's not as interesting to me as what I was coming up with. 

Still, I hope Tangle and her become girlfriends. If the characters could have more relationship and goals other than doing things for the reason of if they're good or bad that'd be nice. That's what I loved about Archie. All of the characters filled a unique niche. The Meropis story with Coral, Pearlie, and Razor was really fulfilling as also being a unique departure in what was essentially a comic adaptation of Sonic Unleashed. Characters were quickly made clear and you got to know them quick and focus on them for a long time. They spent four issues on Meropis but Tangle has only got one issue so far with nothing to latch onto. Same goes for Rough and Tumble and it feels like the same will happen to Whisper. I want a reason to like these characters, please. Give me something more than a neat ability or joke or something. I feel like someone needs to look back at Disney comics and Early Silver Age when the books were goofy and had characters like Stilt Man to figure out how to make a true impression. My Hero Academia would be a really great example of something to look to in how to write an action series like Sonic where you have the action but overall still have more to this story than just the good fight. 

It's kind of why I liked Sonic having an uncle too as well as his brother Tails. He had a reason to care. His friends were his family but it's kind of... not brought up anymore. He fights to fight. I feel like one of the things kids like about cartoons these days is how much they connect with the characters having issues beyond just fighting or really good reasons for fights breaking out. It's why I haven't taken well to this emotionless Sonic Sega wants to sell. I liked my characters for having feelings. Take that away and they've become roboticized. Which is darkly funny when you consider Eggman and his Robots once represented Nintendo and its friendly approach to making products for consumption. 

I hope that someone has the heart to tell Ian Flynn this. I certainly don't.

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31 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

Also, I was kind of hoping that Whisper was blind and could have been this book's Bunnie Rabbot where you have a disabled Sonic character, but it's just a quirk with characters who close their eyes I guess? I was hoping the name Whisper meant that she was blind and thus had to listen to her environment in order to react to things. See, that would have been fun, yeah? Instead she's coming off as an assassin type and while that is technically new for Sonic it's not as interesting to me as what I was coming up with.

It's just an anime style thing like Brock from Pokemon, very stylish.

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1 hour ago, LongcrierCat said:

I've been a long time fan of his and it's been extremely disheartening to say at the very least. Sega has a choke hold on this comic and it will die by their hands. 

Now I wonder what the comic after this one dies off will be like...

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15 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Geez, dude. Why don't you get engaged to Issue 6 at this point, you're so obsessed with it.

It's not good, point taken.

Its its like really bad. 

And every time I think back to " Ok maybe i'm overacting , clearly it ain't that bad. This time i'm being the big baby " and try to give a chance I go " Oh wait I read it again, its worse" . 

 

Though this is how kinda felt about the entirety of worlds unite... so at least its about one comic that's not as bad. Gonna stop myself before I start talking about how worlds unite is terrible

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