Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

 

The infamous "Pingas" line from Adventures. 

 

That wasn't an innuendo so much as people hearing what they wanted to hear from Long John Baldry's insatiably hammy delivery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's definitely a story. There's a lot of repetition and build up at the moment, here 8 issues in, but we're definitely being told a story. 

I'm actually more interested in what the emptiness in Silver's future means. Dude's gotta figure his shit out. I'm starting to doubt he's even technically considered apart of a timeline at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

There's a "story"...there's not a "plot" yet.

Oh yeah, Silver/Whisper ship fuel and Sonic and Silver found out Metal Sonic took over Angel Island. It was apparently surprising for them, Silver even said a uncommonly seen word.. what was it, again? "Crap"? Holy crap, that was really shocking! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

There's definitely a story. There's a lot of repetition and build up at the moment, here 8 issues in, but we're definitely being told a story. 

I'm actually more interested in what the emptiness in Silver's future means. Dude's gotta figure his shit out. I'm starting to doubt he's even technically considered apart of a timeline at this point. 

Yeah, he, Scourge, and arguably Dr. Nega became walking anomalies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

There's definitely a story. There's a lot of repetition and build up at the moment, here 8 issues in, but we're definitely being told a story. 

I'm actually more interested in what the emptiness in Silver's future means. Dude's gotta figure his shit out. I'm starting to doubt he's even technically considered apart of a timeline at this point. 

I feel like that's more on Sonic team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Silver's entire world is completely changed everytime he goes back into time to the point where everyone Silver's ever known has probably ceased to exist multiple times over and everything is unrecognizable, why not just stay in the present instead of going back and forth? After this, he's probably going to go back only to immediately return (read as: the next big arc) because the world is frozen or something.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Razule said:

If Silver's entire world is completely changed everytime he goes back into time to the point where everyone Silver's ever known has probably ceased to exist multiple times over and everything is unrecognizable, why not just stay in the present instead of going back and forth? After this, he's probably going to go back only to immediately return (read as: the next big arc) because the world is frozen or something.

 

 

Well, the only way to actually confirm if his future has been saved is to go back and look for himself. If he comes to the past to stop an event that he "thinks" causes his world to turn into an ice ball (or water world or whatever), he can't be 100% confident that he has achieved his mission accomplished until he hops back through the time portal to see for himself.

We already know Silver is doing this for a greater good mentality, and less in hopes of keeping friends and family safe. Through all versions, Silver was a lonely kid who really had no friends (save for Blaze in 06). Silvers not jumping back in time so he can save his family or something - he's doing it for justice. Because of that It doesn't really matter that his place in the universe has been warped beyond recognition or the future keeps wildly changing - all that matters is that he is able to come back - do a thing - and end up with a brighter future. That's his character motivation. That's his drive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Well, the only way to actually confirm if his future has been saved is to go back and look for himself. If he comes to the past to stop an event that he "thinks" causes his world to turn into an ice ball (or water world or whatever), he can't be 100% confident that he has achieved his mission accomplished until he hops back through the time portal to see for himself.

We already know Silver is doing this for a greater good mentality, and less in hopes of keeping friends and family safe. Through all versions, Silver was a lonely kid who really had no friends (save for Blaze in 06). Silvers not jumping back in time so he can save his family or something - he's doing it for justice. Because of that It doesn't really matter that his place in the universe has been warped beyond recognition or the future keeps wildly changing - all that matters is that he is able to come back - do a thing - and end up with a brighter future. That's his character motivation. That's his drive.

But that never really comes through in his characterization

Further more, I actually find it super irresponsible? You shouldn't just being going back in time all the time , because you might be fucking up the timeline. Not every event would require your intervention, this last one sure seemed like silver didn't really help much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But that never really comes through in his characterization

Further more, I actually find it super irresponsible? You shouldn't just being going back in time all the time , because you might be fucking up the timeline. Not every event would require your intervention, this last one sure seemed like silver didn't really help much

Well, if Silver wasn't there in Forces it seems like the Eggman-torn world would've been the future. Even if it seems like he really didn't do anything in Forces but recruit Knuckles and knock a Ruby prototype out of Infinite for the Avatar to get. 

Maybe without Silver, Knuckles would've died against the fake Chaos 0 and there'd be no way to stop the sun from destroying the Resistance. Unfortunately, the future seems to be destined to go to ruin in some way no matter what by Silver's time anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Razule said:

Well, if Silver wasn't there in Forces it seems like the Eggman-torn world would've been the future. Even if it seems like he really didn't do anything in Forces but recruit Knuckles and knock a Ruby prototype out of Infinite for the Avatar to get. 

Maybe without Silver, Knuckles would've died against the fake Chaos 0 and there'd be no way to stop the sun from destroying the Resistance. Unfortunately, the future seems to be destined to go to ruin in some way no matter what by Silver's time anyway.

I feel like there are a lot of what ifs, and I feel like you kind of need a tangible threat to have time travelers around, or it quickly becomes irresponsible. To make a comparison, Cable from marvel comics is at his best when there is something he needs to specifically be doing. And not as " random future man " or " Plot device to get rid of story element we don't like " , that character quickly becomes irresponsible with out it. 

Like say , if silver.. explained to us how the future got so bad, and he was there to stop a specific event from happening, and what it does to the future. That fixes that, but he hasn't got that explanation for a while. So his character is just around with vague threats of a terrible future who I as the person getting entertained, cannon entertain because he's yet to shown proof of this. 

This is, ontop of this type of storyline being used poorly. Much like infinite's power is being used too small time. They did it once in the comic, but it would be interesting if silver came back to stop the main characters from doing shit, because he thinks it will make the future worse. That's a tangle threat with real fallout that people have to deal with , that isn't just vague threats of a terrible future 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But that never really comes through in his characterization

Sure it does.

In 06 he was naive and desperate. Blaze told him the former to his face, and Mephilies took advantage of the latter. Both were a result of the bleak future he was born into and his strong desire to do whatever it takes to change it.

Flynn picked it up from there and the characterization stayed consistent.

Silver debuted in the comics jumping to conclusions and acting on his desperation on several different occasions. Each time he targeted a FF, he did so wearing his motivation on his sleeve. That the fate of his future hung in the balance and he was doing what he had to do out of necessity. Each time garnishing more ridicule for being so naive and ill informed to the big picture - and adding friction between himself and the main cast. When Sonic finally snapped on him, and keel-hauled him through the city, that was the end result of a consistent build up of his character. He was naive to the situations grand scheme, and when he finally did catch up he lacked the social skills to understand how his delivery might rub Sonic the wrong way. 

Fastforward though some game arcs and the Silver Age, all the way up to IDW and we still see Flynn staying home with Silvers characterization in IDW. He lacks big time social skills (and his contrast with Whisper is even explained to the viewer in one panel - confirming both his awkward approach to Whisper and his lifetime of loneliness).

Silver's characterization has always been awkward and naive - with a foundation of a kid who will sacrifice everything to save the world. Thats never wavered.

 

15 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Further more, I actually find it super irresponsible? You shouldn't just being going back in time all the time , because you might be fucking up the timeline. Not every event would require your intervention, this last one sure seemed like silver didn't really help much

How irresponsible is it if his timeline was already shot to hell and back to begin with? Its not like Silver is jumping back to save a handful of people or something - in most cases he's quite literally doing it to stave off Armageddon level scenarios.

Shoot, his future can't get much worse, might as well risk the butterfly effect if your world is covered in lava and everyone has lost hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sure it does.

In 06 he was naive and desperate. Blaze told him the former to his face, and Mephilies took advantage of the latter. Both were a result of the bleak future he was born into and his strong desire to do whatever it takes to change it.

 

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Flynn picked it up from there and the characterization stayed consistent.

No it hasn't. He littterally has his entire character reconnected into oblivion and one of his most major complaints by a good share of his detractors is that they don't even know what type of character he's supposed. He's largely different in every interpretation. And isn't around enough to develop any character at all. 

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Silver debuted in the comics jumping to conclusions and acting on his desperation on several different occasions. Each time he targeted a FF, he did so wearing his motivation on his sleeve. That the fate of his future hung in the balance and he was doing what he had to do out of necessity. Each time garnishing more ridicule for being so naive and ill informed to the big picture - and adding friction between himself and the main cast. When Sonic finally snapped on him, and keel-hauled him through the city, that was the end result of a consistent build up of his character. He was naive to the situations grand scheme, and when he finally did catch up he lacked the social skills to understand how his delivery might rub Sonic the wrong way. 

 

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Fastforward though some game arcs and the Silver Age, all the way up to IDW and we still see Flynn staying home with Silvers characterization in IDW. He lacks big time social skills (and his contrast with Whisper is even explained to the viewer in one panel - confirming both his awkward approach to Whisper and his lifetime of loneliness).

I don't feel like either of those silves are romtely the same. I feel like you are trying to conflate minor things into full on character constancy where there is none. The silver in the comic is nothing like the silver in 06. Even if he did jump to a conclusion one time, everyone in sonic jumps to conclusions on occasion. Jumping to a conclusion, is not itself a character. This is combined with him never really having solid character traits in any of these arcs, his characterization is largely generic hero from the future. I guess some people can say he's " Dorky " but he's not he's just self serious and that doesn't really make him particularly unique or interesting either. 

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Silver's characterization has always been awkward and naive - with a foundation of a kid who will sacrifice everything to save the world. Thats never wavered.

It has, infact it largely doesn't exist. And Ian flyn and whoever basically has to write him a new version of his character every time he pops up

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

How irresponsible is it if his timeline was already shot to hell and back to begin with? Its not like Silver is jumping back to save a handful of people or something - in most cases he's quite literally doing it to stave off Armageddon level scenarios.

 

8 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Shoot, his future can't get much worse, might as well risk the butterfly effect if your world is covered in lava and everyone has lost hope.

1) Because he doesn't know if by doing this , he's actually ensuring the future's doom. Like the thing he almost did the first time he came back

2) He doesn't know if the people in the past could actually handle it by themselves, and unless he has a clear defined reason to go back, he's basically guessing why his future is shitty

3) Along with two, if its a singular timeline, he's effectively effectively erasing people from reality over and over and over again because the future isn't quite the way he wanted it

4) Read of Ultron. No seriously, find the Original Age of Ultron story, Read it. And understand the lesson that wolverine learned.

5) It should have effects, the ability to just traverse time, and just warn people of shit its far too powerful a device to just be  athing a character uses whenever. Even if its something light hearted like sonic. These narrative devices need consequences. Or else A silver looks far too powerful, or B which has actually happening. Silver doesn't matter because it doesn't feel like he actually effected anything, someone just wanted him around. And that makes him look incredibly irresponsible 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

No it hasn't. He littterally has his entire character reconnected into oblivion and one of his most major complaints by a good share of his detractors is that they don't even know what type of character he's supposed. He's largely different in every interpretation. And isn't around enough to develop any character at all. 

I disagree. And I'll willing to bet that I can show far more examples of Silver being the the naive/ill informed kid with a strong sense of justice than you can of him coming back from the future with no hint of either of those traits.

 

If your so confident that Silver has differing dominant traits every time he pops up, then show your work. I'll show mine below.

 

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't feel like either of those silves are romtely the same. I feel like you are trying to conflate minor things into full on character constancy where there is none. The silver in the comic is nothing like the silver in 06.

Even if he did jump to a conclusion one time, everyone in sonic jumps to conclusions on occasion.

 

Of course, other characters can jump to conclusions too, but that is a mute point. Knuckles is known for being gullible yet that doesn't prevent other characters from being duped and Sonic is notoriously shortsighted, but doesn't stop other characters from making hat same mistake from time to time.

 

The kicker here is that Silver takes action on his first instincts and assumptions to a fault. Its an ingrained part of his character. Silver being so naive is on full display every time he shows up. Its in his nature to show that he is far to quick to set his mind on a conclusion - and we see it time and time again. Silver jumps to accusations so fast its almost a running gag.

In #195 Hedgehog havok, he comes to the past with the knowledge that a rouge member of the freedom fighters dooms his future. Going on nothing but the memory of Sonic being the only member of the team with top tier power - he sets out to end Sonic no ifs ands or buts. He's got conviction, and his hearts in the right place, but its not until a sage-er character slows him down does he see the error of his hasty assumptions.

naive. Check.

strong sense of justice Check.

 

In #215 Future Tense, Silver's next appearance, he's back on the trail of the traitor.  Armed only with the Knowles that "Boomer Walrus" wasn't the name of the Rotor Walrus he met in the past, Silver again makes a hasty assumption that this man must be the traitor, and goes as far as to duck his mentor so he can go and do his hero thing and save the future by eliminating the imposter in the past. Again, he's got the conviction, his heart remains in the right place, but his eagerness to do good and save everything blinds him to the big picture and his naivete leaves him exposed to a colossal overstep.

naive. Check

strong sense of justice. Check.

 

In #25 Silver Saga (Fractured mirror I think) Mogul warns him right off the bat about is hasty actions within the first couple pages of the arc. But, surprise surprise, Silver's heroic nature kicks in and he puts it all on the line for a zone that he doesn't even belong to. He even rallies the troops when all hope is lost, not letting them give up on themselves, not letting them give in to Enerjak.

naive. Check.

strong sense of justice. Check.

 

In #235, Silver thinks he's got it all figured out. He finds Antoine's heavily damaged journal. Even after being too quick to jump the gun twice before, and even again after being warned by Mogul that his latest lead still had too many holes in it to be construed as proof. Silver still felt he had enough to make his third attempt and even risked coming back to the past without a time stone to do what needed to be done.

naive. Check

strong sense of justice. Check.

 

Then in IDW #8 Silver's back to his old ways. He's quick on the assumptions and attributes his sporadic behaviors to a lifetime of solitude in his destroyed future. Buts he's right there to play his part and save the day.

 

 

Silver has been fairly consistent since the day he walked into the comics. More often than not he's the heroic figure he needs to be, stepping up to protect where he can and making the big sacrifice when push comes to shove. While he lacks the foresight to see the big picture, he's always trying to make the pieces fit with what little information he has to go on. Thats always been his M.O.

 

This Silver is exactly the same as the one presented in 06, if not a bit more fleshed out. He's so desperate to save his future that he lashes out and runs with wild theories and leads. (Him targeting Sonic due to Mephilies telling him to do so is eerily similar to the justifications he had for going after Sonic in Hedgehog Havok). Just like in 06, Silver is left pondering multiple times if its right to kill someone in the past to save the future (he did so before choosing to engage Rotor). Just like in 06, Silver is determined to do what he has to do. Just like in 06, Silver has put himself in harms way, willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

If Silver has a different personality each time he shows up, then I'm not seeing it. Please elaborate. Show me where Silver isn't operating out of naivete or his sense of justice.

 

 

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

1) Because he doesn't know if by doing this , he's actually ensuring the future's doom. Like the thing he almost did the first time he came back

2) He doesn't know if the people in the past could actually handle it by themselves, and unless he has a clear defined reason to go back, he's basically guessing why his future is shitty

3) Along with two, if its a singular timeline, he's effectively effectively erasing people from reality over and over and over again because the future isn't quite the way he wanted it

4) Read of Ultron. No seriously, find the Original Age of Ultron story, Read it. And understand the lesson that wolverine learned.

5) It should have effects, the ability to just traverse time, and just warn people of shit its far too powerful a device to just be  athing a character uses whenever. Even if its something light hearted like sonic. These narrative devices need consequences. Or else A silver looks far too powerful, or B which has actually happening. Silver doesn't matter because it doesn't feel like he actually effected anything, someone just wanted him around. And that makes him look incredibly irresponsible 

I am well aware of the narrative pitfalls that comes with time travel stories.

That logic doesn't always add up when your returning from an apocalyptic future, rather than just a ruined one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

This Silver is exactly the same as the one presented in 06, if not a bit more fleshed out. He's so desperate to save his future that he lashes out and runs with wild theories and leads. (Him targeting Sonic due to Mephilies telling him to do so is eerily similar to the justifications he had for going after Sonic in Hedgehog Havok). Just like in 06, Silver is left pondering multiple times if its right to kill someone in the past to save the future (he did so before choosing to engage Rotor). Just like in 06, Silver is determined to do what he has to do. Just like in 06, Silver has put himself in harms way, willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

In addition to this, while you need to understand Japanese as it got horribly lost in translation, 06 even spells it out. Silver goes back to the past to stop Sonic because he believes Iblis is released due to the actions of a "blue hedgehog". Blaze even notes this, and it's important to remember that during the events of '06 Blaze doesn't know who Sonic is, and thus has never met a blue hedgehog yet.
So here's the trick, like how in English blue can refer to somebody who is depressed, in Japanese blue can refer to somebody who is naïve. The plot at this point was supposed to make you think if Silver was supposed to be the real catalyst of all his own problems as he himself is the naïve hedgehog. Again, the translation missed this completely so almost nobody (on English speaking forums) realised this detail at all. Of note that Ian Flynn did and has pointed it out a couple of times himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Razule said:

If Silver's entire world is completely changed everytime he goes back into time to the point where everyone Silver's ever known has probably ceased to exist multiple times over and everything is unrecognizable, why not just stay in the present instead of going back and forth? After this, he's probably going to go back only to immediately return (read as: the next big arc) because the world is frozen or something.

From a more technical stand-point, that'd probably wreck the point of his character and he'd need to find a new point of development and occupation to focus on. It's something that every Sonic character, aside from Cream, has. Silver's the guy from the future. That's his thing. That's his gimmick. It's an unfortunate one to have since time-travel is bullshit but that's what he is. Without it, he'd need to find a new "thing".

Sonic's the hero, Tails is the sidekick/aspiring tech-guy with low-self esteem, Amy's the wannabe love interest/maturing avenger out for the hero's respect, Knuckles is the loner (supposedly) who guards (supposedly) the Master Emerald, Rouge is a spy/jewel thief/government agent/treasure hunter/club owner, Shadow's a G.U.N agent with more flexible morals working off a promise he made to a dead girl, Omega wants revenge/the title of strongest robot, Vector, Charmy, and Espio are all detectives out for that booty cash money, Blaze is a princess and guardian of the Sol Emeralds as well as her own dimension, and Eggman wants to rule the world.

Hell, even Big can say he's at least a fisherman.  

Maybe Silver's story could expand to go beyond just going back and forth between time somehow. Mayhaps we do something different with the concept of time. Perhaps strike fear into Silver's heart by having Father Time show up and tell him that he's fucked himself by traveling back and forth so many times and now he exists out of time. Silver doesn't know what to do. Introduce a new concept that could make him wary of possible diversions in Sonic's time and have him be a time cop that goes about fixing it. Like Garnet only with even less reliable future vision since he doesn't know the events that led up to the future. He can only do his best to try and avoid it.

Or something. I dunno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

November solicitations are up. No Sonic cover yet, but we've got a synopsis:

(W) Ian Flynn (A) Tracy Yardley (CA) Jon Gray
“The Battle for Angel Island,” Part Three! Sonic and Knuckles are on the ropes as their foe uses the power of the Master Emerald to become a far more formidable threat! Meanwhile, the rest of the Resistance faces off against the entirety of the Eggman Empire’s Fleet… but can they win?
In Shops: Nov 21, 2018
SRP: $3.99

Sounds like Neo might pull a little Mecha Sonic action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.