Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Red Hot Jack]

5 hours ago, Razule said:

Maybe SEGA's okay with it as long as he doesn't actually change colors. That's reserved for hedgehogs of course. Maybe Metal Sonic falls under "male hedgehog" by technicality?

They let Eggman change into Mr. Tinker (even though temporarily) so I can't rule out that they are going to do something new with Neo Metal Sonic.

Now... I know we can't compare yet the 2 books, IDW vs Archie, maybe when Year 1 is over, but which introduction story do you prefer? Since all 8 issues have been introductions for now, compared to Countdown to Chaos?

Archie wins, hands down. Not only IDW has been doing things slower, but there is very little story behind these introductions, the only interesting thing is the mystery villain, whose mystery should have been filled with clues, I know it's a kids book but still; while CdtC had plenty of story, a complicated one, that's probably why I liked it a lot, even though the Freedom Fighters are not my favorite persons, and we have been introduced to game characters here, which I prefer a lot, but maybe with the FFs more things could have been done? There was also an introduction with Amy along with Sally, the rebooted and newly designed Freedom Fighters, each with a unique story and introduction, the intense situation of bringing back the memories, and a lot of world building, perhaps too much. The only thing that bothered me is that the dual memories situation felt pointless in the end because they couldn't do anything else with them, but the end of issue 256 was amazing, Eggman caused the planet to crack like an... egg, and visually it was really good.

[StaticMania]

Wow, Archie wins?

Glad you're comparing that long runner to an 8 issue comic, who's intro isn't nearly as comedic and shenanigans based as Archie's. Which makes it a loser.

[Red Hot Jack]

I'm comparing the first 5 issues of the Archie reboot with the first 8 issues of IDW, if anything it's IDW that's longer in this case.

[StaticMania]

That doesn't make much sense either, to be hornets.

[Kazhnuz]

Comparing both first 8 issues makes sense, tbh : Both introduced the world base, cast and the initial plot (At All Cost part 2 + Countdown to Chaos // Fallout) and add the first steps around that mystery (The Chase // 4 following issues).

Even if I really like IDWSonic, I think that Archie handled its start a bit better, even if they also did the "one/several" character by issue, they did it in a bit more organic way in countdown to Chaos. They were advancing through one small plot, whereas IDW were a bit too much episodic. Damage Control, a small issue dedicated to see the impact of the storyline, was a great addition, and did a great job to introduce what was important with Sonic (the fact that he will never give up and stuff) something that IDWSonic also did well with issue#2. The Chase gave us a nice bit of team action, something that would have been nice to get before Battle for Angel Island amha.

For me, where IDWSonic could have learned from ArchieSonic Post-SGW was to have better tie in his chapter dedicated to reintroduce characters. I really think that the first arc of IDWSonic should have been less episodic and more organic, not focusing each issue on one character, but introducing more dynamically the group. ( Maybe for instance centering the issue on the town conquered by Rough and Thumble, and having it so isolated, surrounded by badnics and impossible to contact that the character think at first that it's Eggman's last retreat, or something like that. And reintroduce character and make them work together to retake the city. It's just something that I thought pretty fast, so it's not really good, but that's an exemple of the problem I have with the first arc. ) Where IDWSonic did better though was tying its story with a past story, while ArchieSonic had its bad idea of the fading memories.

 

So, I prefer ArchieSonic for its more inviting world (more worldbuilding, several small seed planted even in the first arc with references to other character) and better character dynamic, but I liked both and IDWSonic flaws aren't really a big problem for me. Its kinda rough start doesn't make it less enjoyable for me now.

[NezumiVA]

I feel like comparing the beginning of reboot archie to the beginning of IDW Sonic is...disingenuous at best. Archie had a steep history with the franchise of over two decades of published comics up to that point. The new rebooted timeline picked up directly after an incredibly dramatic plot point describing how that new universe came to be, and a lot of the story drama directly originated from the fact that Sonic and his friends had to come to terms with a previous existence feeling foreign to them while also dredging up unpleasant memories that they didn't know still lingered. That is heavily ingrained in familiarity and fondness for the established book and cast, regardless of whether or not it's a new beginning. It's still very much set up to play on the readers being at least tangentially familiar with what has proceeded, which is a veritable 200+ issues worth of stories.

IDW Sonic doesn't have that luxury, nor should it yet. They're not just aiming at longtime series veterans, but rather a much more expanded audience - even people who have no idea what a Sonic is. Compare IDW Sonic's beginning 8 issues to Archie's true first 8 issues, from the beginning in '92? And I think that'd be a much fairer point of comparison than Post Super Genesis Wave is. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I also like the new book, I'm not complaining, it's good, I'm planning to buy the first volume in paper form when it's out. I currently only own the digital versions.

[DabigRG]

I think the idea of tying in Rough and Tumble with the mystery of Eggman's whereabouts is interesting.

With that said, I kinda prefer the approach we got of having the Skunk brothers kinda come out of nowhere and take over a fortified town by playing on the need for stronger heroes. In fact, one extrapolation of my issues with that story came from the fact that I felt like it didn't take full[er] advantage of what it had to work with.

[Kazhnuz]

3 hours ago, NezumiVA said:

I feel like comparing the beginning of reboot archie to the beginning of IDW Sonic is...disingenuous at best. Archie had a steep history with the franchise of over two decades of published comics up to that point. The new rebooted timeline picked up directly after an incredibly dramatic plot point describing how that new universe came to be, and a lot of the story drama directly originated from the fact that Sonic and his friends had to come to terms with a previous existence feeling foreign to them while also dredging up unpleasant memories that they didn't know still lingered. That is heavily ingrained in familiarity and fondness for the established book and cast, regardless of whether or not it's a new beginning. It's still very much set up to play on the readers being at least tangentially familiar with what has proceeded, which is a veritable 200+ issues worth of stories.

IDW Sonic doesn't have that luxury, nor should it yet. They're not just aiming at longtime series veterans, but rather a much more expanded audience - even people who have no idea what a Sonic is. Compare IDW Sonic's beginning 8 issues to Archie's true first 8 issues, from the beginning in '92? And I think that'd be a much fairer point of comparison than Post Super Genesis Wave is. 

I kinda disagree with that. Yes, the differences in the circumstances are important and something you have to understand in order to make a good comparison, but it's not a reason to dismiss the very idea of comparing both. Even if the comparisons changed, some of the differences of choice made in how Flynn did the introduction of the Post-SGW and of IDW are not necessarily based on theses different circumstances, and are interesting to compare.

Even if the plot points are different, there are many things that are comparable, as both group of issues had basically the same role, but in different circumstances (especially as Flynn wanted an hard reboot, and not the memory thing. That's why they removed it that fast). So yup, they are comparable, and there comparison are interesting to understand things about the work routine of Ian Flynn. Personally, I don't think that everything that they do and that we attribute to "making thing easier to newcomers", like the invasion of unnamed villages™ and the "episodic" feels of the first arc (even if how great the character were written was pretty good, and so it wasn't such a problem for a lot of readers) were good ideas, and that even with all things considered, there are some things that I prefer in ArchieSonic (especially as I discovered more as a newcomer the Archie reboot, as I did only read some old issues before, and hadn't really a good understanding of Archies' lore -- but I was a game veteran though).

 

So, having different circumstances doesn't made every comparison void, especially when the question is « which introduction story do you prefer ».

[NezumiVA]

6 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

I kinda disagree with that. Yes, the differences in the circumstances are important and something you have to understand in order to make a good comparison, but it's not a reason to dismiss the very idea of comparing both. Even if the comparisons changed, some of the differences of choice made in how Flynn did the introduction of the Post-SGW and of IDW are not necessarily based on theses different circumstances, and are interesting to compare.

Even if the plot points are different, there are many things that are comparable, as both group of issues had basically the same role, but in different circumstances (especially as Flynn wanted an hard reboot, and not the memory thing. That's why they removed it that fast). So yup, they are comparable, and there comparison are interesting to understand things about the work routine of Ian Flynn. Personally, I don't think that everything that they do and that we attribute to "making thing easier to newcomers", like the invasion of unnamed villages™ and the "episodic" feels of the first arc (even if how great the character were written was pretty good, and so it wasn't such a problem for a lot of readers) were good ideas, and that even with all things considered, there are some things that I prefer in ArchieSonic (especially as I discovered more as a newcomer the Archie reboot, as I did only read some old issues before, and hadn't really a good understanding of Archies' lore -- but I was a game veteran though).

 

So, having different circumstances doesn't made every comparison void, especially when the question is « which introduction story do you prefer ».

I don't think what I'm saying here is quite being understood fully. My point is that comparing the two as introductions is inherently a flawed comparison, because one is a soft timeline reboot of a book over twenty years old and the other is a completely new book being marketed to both series fans and newcomers alike. I'm not saying either way that one or the other is better, but that's just it - I think it's unfair to compare the two because they are fundamentally different in ways that simply make the comparison mundane, at least in my opinion.

I like both the Archie and IDW comics for the record, but I think IDW having a slow start is something that's more than tolerable with the quality of writing at hand. Not to mention the Archie comics took way longer to get off the ground with a continuous story when it started, being mostly a gag comic at the start.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

14 hours ago, Silent Jack said:

Now... I know we can't compare yet the 2 books, IDW vs Archie, maybe when Year 1 is over, but which introduction story do you prefer? Since all 8 issues have been introductions for now, compared to Countdown to Chaos?

If you want to be fair and compare IDW with the start of Archie Post-Reboot?

Despite not finding IDW bad, I’d say Archie. They both kinda started similar, basically throwing you into the setting without you know everything, but Archie kinda blended this in by having Sonic still trying to figure things out himself, and as such we learned everything along with him. It had more energy to it’s start and I was far more curious to what was going on there than I was here with IDW. That it didn’t come off as too formulaic by comparison probably helps.

It’s not without it’s faults, like how it handled itself with plot details only those who had already kept up with the comic would know about. That part would be confusing, even moreso when they never really were allowed to build upon it, so those just starting to read would never really know about it unless they read past issues—IDW does this too, but it does this from jumping off the games, at a much different pace that goes from weak to strong at times.

But, Archie definitely had the stronger start, even with its hiccups. That said IDW doesn’t make me as curious about the world like Archie did, so that also made a difference.

[PublicEnemy1]

I want to confess something: in its current state, I'm not really feeling this series. I mean no ill will towards ANYONE working on this comic, nor do I belittle anyone liking this comic, but I came here to state some constructive criticism that I have with the book.

Here are my issues:

1. The pacing in this book feels... sluggish. Not much goes on in one book, and it's kind of starting to feel formulaic. Just bash up some robots, and maybe a bit of plot at the end. This is a bit of a generalization, but I think you get the point. This leads into...

2. I feel this book is lacking in substance. It looks very pretty, for the most part, especially with ABT. However, I feel as if many things lack the soul of the Archie series. First off, the characterization and character interactions, while nice, can feel a bit same-y. The next thing is that most of the characters bounce off of Sonic, and Sonic only. You could argue that he's the main character, but it'd be nice if other characters are there to bounce of each other, like Tails and Knuckles, Whisper and Tangle, etc. Did I mention that Neo Metal kinda felt predictable? Like, he was predicted to be the guy in the chair since the first issue. Finally, there's none of that pizzazz that the Archie comics had, pre-boot nor post-boot. It feels too close to the games rather than being the "blank slate" that was promised last year.

3. The book is WAY too centered on Sonic. I know that he's the main character, but Archie could focus on multiple characters and still tell a really compelling story. Also, he's too highly worshiped, such as the first book, where one of them said would potentially DIE just for Sonic to wink at them.

4. Despite being hyped to death, with all the fanart and stuff, I feel that Tangle and Whisper add NOTHING to the story. As in, they could be taken out and nothing of value would of been lost. These character shouldn't be treated like this, and they should leave more of an impact on the reader.

I don't know if this is fatigue of Ian Flynn, mandates from Sega, or something... but for right now, I just don't feel that this comic has enough to actually CARE about. Of course this could change in the future, and I hope it does. Again, I don't have anything against them, but for some reason or another, this book feels... off.

I don't hate this comic, but I feel it could be SO much better. Here are some suggestions:

1. Have more character-driven stories. There's more to a comic book than just action. Give the characters some development, make them feel more real and relatable, and, y'know, make me care about them.

2. Have some some subplots/backup-stories. There is a vast majority of stories you can tell. They don't all have to be "defeat Eggman/villain of the week".

3. Give other characters more spotlight and more meaning to the story. You created new characters for a reason, and they should be used for more than just hype material.

4. Put in some worldbuilding. None of the towns in this book so far are named, nor are mayors of towns. It's minor, but I think it needs to be said. If this is going to be a long-running comic, it needs to have a world that is memorable.

I'm saying all of this for one reason: to make the comic something that is good for everybody. I'm not asking for another Archie, but I think it should break away from the games enough to get its own identity, and feel more satisfying to read.

I want this book to be beyond great, to surpass Archie Sonic, but to do that, we need to speak up.

[dbzfan7]

I just find it dull. I'm not a vapid Archie reader or much of a follower, but a lot of the story is basically just retelling the same thing over and over again with different characters. Basically hitting the same notes. There are some exceptions but even then nothing really investment worthy. There's nothing that wraps me into wanting read the current or next issues. "Neo is heading to Angel Island!!!" eh.....not very spectacular. Unless there's a reason that's not probably the most obvious path. It doesn't help that only few people really have some sort of individual driving force. Sonic's the only driving force, but if they really want to go that route...his path is not interesting...at all. The closest we've had is how he was around Mr. Tinker....that's about the one time the story made me give a crap....outside if Tails would stop sucking...but as an actual story beat...the Mr. Tinker stuff is pretty much what I am most interested in, and wanting to see where they go with it.

Have Mr. Tinker become a cornerstone of Sonic before the eventual return to evil, which rips out the heart strings. Have him truly be a good guy, and be a huge asset until the tragic day it ends. Have him become like one of the best members of the good side to count on. Have him save lives, save the heroes, and pretty much earn his spot as a true hero. Then eventually turn him heel again to make it sad. 

[knuckles20]

@PublicEnemy1 I’m enjoying the book just fine but I understand your concerns regarding characters and world building.

You also bring up something that I feel the Archie series did well; having subplots that move the series forward as much as whatever Sonic was doing at the moment. 

Hopefully we get more meaningful interactions between the other characters and locations with actual names in the future.

[DabigRG]

Yeah, this book has kinda been ebbing into kinda low caring territory since around 4 for me. There are some legit good issues/moments in here and things are finally to the point where there's bigger plot goin down, but at the same time, said plot also feels a little...underbuilt and slightly cluttered?

[NezumiVA]

I really think people are just rushing this whole thing way too much, if you want my beef. By issue 8 of the original Archie run, we were getting a super-hero parody along with a Steve Urkel bot for plot...

Not that I'm saying Archie is bad, I love Archie so quite the opposite. But stories take time, stories take work and they take development. Development takes breathing room. You see what I'm saying here? Some of my favorite shows right now in terms of plot and emotional depth had really lowkey sluggish beginnings, take Steven Universe and Star VS for big examples of that in animation alone. 

Wanting a big involved plot and lore and cast of characters after only 8 issues is asking for this comic to get way too into itself and complicated way too quickly. Give it the lowkey first arc, give it the building block time. It'll come into its own, but it can't do that right off the bat - or else there's no sense of decent pacing, really - considering this is the beginning of a series.

I don't mean to come across as hostile to anyone, like what you like, dislike what you dislike. Freedom of opinion and all that. But I think a lot of the issues people have with this comic's pace reflects more impatience on their part than it does a failure to deliver on IDW's part.

[DabigRG]

Really, some of these issues could be mitigated a bit if the stories felt more complete and worthy of their material and premise/solicit, like 2.

 

Also, maybe cool it on comparisons to Archie from either end, guys.

[NezumiVA]

I mean, I've never really had an issue with them at all to be honest? I was actually surprised to find people found the stories lackluster, but that's just me.
And like I said, my comparison wasn't meant to the detriment of that comic at all - I love their book too, I'm just saying every series with sizable development usually starts slow. Slamming tons of lore and drama into the start of your product is just all around a pretty generally bad idea, at least imo.

[SBR2]

13 hours ago, NezumiVA said:

I mean, I've never really had an issue with them at all to be honest? I was actually surprised to find people found the stories lackluster, but that's just me.
And like I said, my comparison wasn't meant to the detriment of that comic at all - I love their book too, I'm just saying every series with sizable development usually starts slow. Slamming tons of lore and drama into the start of your product is just all around a pretty generally bad idea, at least imo.

Agreed completely. If they hit us with everything at once it'd have been a total sensory overload.

IMHO they've done the job they needed to do. They set up the setting, who everyone is, what their connection to Sonic is, what they can do and how well they can handle themselves in a fight. While also setting up Neo-Metal and his plans at an even pace. I mean IDK but for me everything feels pretty good right now.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Agreed completely. If they hit us with everything at once it'd have been a total sensory overload.

IMHO they've done the job they needed to do. They set up the setting, who everyone is, what their connection to Sonic is, what they can do and how well they can handle themselves in a fight. While also setting up Neo-Metal and his plans at an even pace. I mean IDK but for me everything feels pretty good right now.

I don't think they have set up a lot of characters at all. Or at least some?

Its why I figured silver and shadow wouldn't be in the first year. They are and what has resulted is I don't feel like you don't get an accurate feel for what their character roles are at all.Same with knuckles, until this arc where he's gonna do the thing he's supposed to do, which is protect the master emerald. Retroactively at least. Same with blaze, sonic provided a small explanation but that's not enough really? Granted She isn't complicated as Silver or shadow in terms of story, but that really isn't setting up anything. Its one of my criticisms of the book. Some of my favorite characters are these weird complicated beats and require more explanation that has been given. These characters were established in 1 or more several hour video games with multiple cutscenes, its gonna take more than one comic with 20 some odd pages to get a good read on them. Not every character is like sonic tails or amy. And that's ok. 

Now I want to mention , I agree they shouldn't front load the book with lore. At that same token, I feel like some of these characters shouldn't have been introduced in the first arc, and I feel even strongly with this arc despite having metal overlord is an obvious call out to sonic and knuckles. I don't feel like you need silver or blaze or shadow around, or emril or whatever. I would mind this being a more concentrated story focused on the "classic 4 " eggman and an eggman robot and allowing them to be fleshed out. But now you have this book filled with a bunch of characters that haven't quite been defined yet, going on an adventure everyone and their mom called from issue one because the story was moving so damn fast that there was no time to build mystery they might have had more mystery time if it was just sonic, tails, knuckles, eggman , and maybe the hint of chaotix. 

This book is assuredly gonna be around for a while, not gonna loose my mind if all my favorites don't show up year one. 

That said I don't think that's up to me or Ian to varying degrees. That's up to IDW and Sega, they probably want a book full of characters, that they can advertise and both parties can sort of gauge which characters and themes in terms of viewership and sales warrant spending time on. And the first year maybe 2 is probably going to be  a bit of that there are business things going on in the background that kinda overrule a more controlled take on this. Trying to feel out the brand, introduce everyone, and make up do stuff , see what works and doesn't confuse anyone from the jump

Anyway that's my cents

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Same with knuckles, until this arc where he's gonna do the thing he's supposed to do, which is protect the master emerald. Retroactively at least.

At the very least, that's one of the only instances where they actually planted a select few seeds long beforehand.

9 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Same with blaze, sonic provided a small explanation but that's not enough really? Granted She isn't complicated as Silver or shadow in terms of story, but that really isn't setting up anything.

Mm...debatable.

Unlike those two(or Shadow anyway) and like Knuckles(ha), there's actually contextualizing put in place with her introduction that will clearly lead into something bigger. 

11 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Some of my favorite characters are these weird complicated beats and require more explanation that has been given. These characters were established in 1 or more several hour video games with multiple cutscenes, its gonna take more than one comic with 20 some odd pages to get a good read on them. Not every character is like sonic tails or amy. And that's ok. 

Now, THIS I agree with wholeheartedly.

25 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

At that same token, I feel like some of these characters shouldn't have been introduced in the first arc, and I feel even strongly with this arc despite having metal overlord is an obvious call out to sonic and knuckles. I don't feel like you need silver or blaze or shadow around, or emril or whatever.

But now you have this book filled with a bunch of characters that haven't quite been defined yet, going on an adventure everyone and their mom called from issue one because the story was moving so damn fast that there was no time to build mystery they might have had more mystery time if it was just sonic, tails, knuckles, eggman , and maybe the hint of chaotix.

There's some merit to this as well.

[Sonictrainer]

Some official fanart by IDW Artist ABT.

 

[StaticMania]

All Fanart is Official.

[MetalSkulkBane]

4 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Some official fanart by IDW Artist ABT.

3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

All Fanart is Official.

 

Maybe we should consider it cannon? As if Neo Metal posed like that and said

"Egg Pawns! I demand a sweet portrait!"

[Silvereyes]

My copies of #7 and #8 finally came today. A little annoyed I must admit, since I wound up being spoiled about Metal Sonic Neo being in #7, but to be honest, it did seem to be the most obvious candidate. #7 is pretty great in terms of art, and the fight scenes. I'd almost call it anime-esque, with the way Sonic is drawn as he fights Metal Sonic Neo. Not much plot behind this one, really the intent of this like #1-#4 is to basically introduce a character into the comic, but this time it is our current villian, and to showcase why he will be a threat for Sonic and co in the coming issues, so it avoids that repititon. Good stuff, and I do find it well written as to why he is masquerading as Eggman and how this will lead somewhere.

#8 I must admit does suffer the flaw of #1-#4 of just having the same structure. See, I think #1-#4 got away with it though it because they were all released within a month, so there wasn't much of a wait, and it was to serve as a proper introduction for newbies. #8 having the same structure does feel a bit disappointing, and not to mention considering how #7 introduces us to our villain, and it seems that #9-#12's The Battle for Angel Island will serve as the big finale for this story arc, it arguably feels a little fillery. Hell, you could basically take the revelation of Metal Sonic Neo having invaded Angel Island and have him reveal his plan in #7, and lead straight into #9 theoretically.

But that isn't the point of #8, the point is on having (arguably) our last major Sonic game character, Silver, be introduced properly in the comic, and to introduce another newcomer, Whisper the Wolf, and I think it works just as well as it has previously. Silver is written very much with his goofy and dorky side out in the open, but keeping him very much a capable hero. It makes him very likable, and I think works well against Sonic's coolness. Whisper, we really don't know anything about, except for being shy, presumably hurt by Eggman in some capacity, her power set of utilising Wisps and generally being super adorable. Be interesting to see if Whisper and Silver have some kind of friendship in the future of the comics, to be honest Silver is probably the Sonic character who generally most needs someone to be tied with, since him and Blaze is in a game's plot that never happened.

I like #8, but I must admit it does make me feel a bit eager to get #9 honestly, considering how it seems as if #8 will be the last issue dedicated to setup, and #9-#12 will hopefully be a nice big payoff, and see basically everyone get some kind of role. I'm also hoping that #13 onwards will perhaps see some more complex stories with the last issues being at a walking speed, I really want to see it running.

Not much to say about the art honestly. I like all the artists, and I think they've all brought something to the table. I can't say I have a preference over any artist, since everything so far is easily better than some of the rubbish art that plagued Archie Sonic around #75-#150.