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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Nah, not really.

There's a rumblings that shadow might get to punch some plumbers, a space bounter hunter a switch and several other people in the face. 

There might be alt covers to reflect that

If the book is about shadow at all. 

That could be just be a cover the book has nothing to do with him given the description and they want to sell copies 

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22 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

There's a rumblings that shadow might get to punch some plumbers, a space bounter hunter a switch and several other people in the face. 

There might be alt covers to reflect that

If the book is about shadow at all. 

That could be just be a cover the book has nothing to do with him given the description and they want to sell copies 

Meh.

I doubt that has much of anything to do with it. We''ll have to see the other covers and the solicit.

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2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Meh.

I doubt that has much of anything to do with it. We''ll have to see the other covers and the solicit.

I'm nt saying anything has to do with anything. What I am saying is that there could be an alt cover like that, and there is precedent for them doing it, because they technically have done it before. Though they don't seem to get rafa knight to do covers anymore ( and... don't pay her apparently ) so I guess no more 3d models

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1 hour ago, superman43 said:

You know how it will end if it is it, right ?

  Reveal hidden contents

Výsledok vyhľadávania obrázkov pre dopyt sonic mania adventures part 5 knuckles

 

leakd issue 12 penel:

Spoiler

sonic_mania_adventures_5.jpg

 

Okay, but for real, I'm quite sure we can say this solicitation just bloody spoiled a plot point for us. Boy, I looove it when that happens. It does raise a few questions, such as if we will we get a Super Neo Metal Sonic, even though it's against the rules of the Sonic Bible?

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2 hours ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

Okay, but for real, I'm quite sure we can say this solicitation just bloody spoiled a plot point for us. Boy, I looove it when that happens. It does raise a few questions, such as if we will we get a Super Neo Metal Sonic, even though it's against the rules of the Sonic Bible?

Well, Ian in the SAGE interview DID say he's going to do something with Neo Metal that wouldn't have flown by in the Archie book, so I don't think it'd be TOO far from the realm of possibility.

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4 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Well, Ian in the SAGE interview DID say he's going to do something with Neo Metal that wouldn't have flown by in the Archie book, so I don't think it'd be TOO far from the realm of possibility.

Plus, given his pseudo-Super form from Mania Adventures, along with Mighty and Ray turning Super proper, it seems Sega's getting a little more lenient with the concept, at least as far as Classic-era characters go.

And anything's gotta be better than Metal Overlord. Even Ian himself openly dislikes that form, and he said Sega outright banned it from Archie. 

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5 hours ago, Razule said:

Maybe SEGA's okay with it as long as he doesn't actually change colors. That's reserved for hedgehogs of course. Maybe Metal Sonic falls under "male hedgehog" by technicality?

They let Eggman change into Mr. Tinker (even though temporarily) so I can't rule out that they are going to do something new with Neo Metal Sonic.

Now... I know we can't compare yet the 2 books, IDW vs Archie, maybe when Year 1 is over, but which introduction story do you prefer? Since all 8 issues have been introductions for now, compared to Countdown to Chaos?

Archie wins, hands down. Not only IDW has been doing things slower, but there is very little story behind these introductions, the only interesting thing is the mystery villain, whose mystery should have been filled with clues, I know it's a kids book but still; while CdtC had plenty of story, a complicated one, that's probably why I liked it a lot, even though the Freedom Fighters are not my favorite persons, and we have been introduced to game characters here, which I prefer a lot, but maybe with the FFs more things could have been done? There was also an introduction with Amy along with Sally, the rebooted and newly designed Freedom Fighters, each with a unique story and introduction, the intense situation of bringing back the memories, and a lot of world building, perhaps too much. The only thing that bothered me is that the dual memories situation felt pointless in the end because they couldn't do anything else with them, but the end of issue 256 was amazing, Eggman caused the planet to crack like an... egg, and visually it was really good.

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Comparing both first 8 issues makes sense, tbh : Both introduced the world base, cast and the initial plot (At All Cost part 2 + Countdown to Chaos // Fallout) and add the first steps around that mystery (The Chase // 4 following issues).

Even if I really like IDWSonic, I think that Archie handled its start a bit better, even if they also did the "one/several" character by issue, they did it in a bit more organic way in countdown to Chaos. They were advancing through one small plot, whereas IDW were a bit too much episodic. Damage Control, a small issue dedicated to see the impact of the storyline, was a great addition, and did a great job to introduce what was important with Sonic (the fact that he will never give up and stuff) something that IDWSonic also did well with issue#2. The Chase gave us a nice bit of team action, something that would have been nice to get before Battle for Angel Island amha.

For me, where IDWSonic could have learned from ArchieSonic Post-SGW was to have better tie in his chapter dedicated to reintroduce characters. I really think that the first arc of IDWSonic should have been less episodic and more organic, not focusing each issue on one character, but introducing more dynamically the group. ( Maybe for instance centering the issue on the town conquered by Rough and Thumble, and having it so isolated, surrounded by badnics and impossible to contact that the character think at first that it's Eggman's last retreat, or something like that. And reintroduce character and make them work together to retake the city. It's just something that I thought pretty fast, so it's not really good, but that's an exemple of the problem I have with the first arc. ) Where IDWSonic did better though was tying its story with a past story, while ArchieSonic had its bad idea of the fading memories.

 

So, I prefer ArchieSonic for its more inviting world (more worldbuilding, several small seed planted even in the first arc with references to other character) and better character dynamic, but I liked both and IDWSonic flaws aren't really a big problem for me. Its kinda rough start doesn't make it less enjoyable for me now.

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I think the idea of tying in Rough and Tumble with the mystery of Eggman's whereabouts is interesting.

With that said, I kinda prefer the approach we got of having the Skunk brothers kinda come out of nowhere and take over a fortified town by playing on the need for stronger heroes. In fact, one extrapolation of my issues with that story came from the fact that I felt like it didn't take full[er] advantage of what it had to work with.

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3 hours ago, NezumiVA said:

I feel like comparing the beginning of reboot archie to the beginning of IDW Sonic is...disingenuous at best. Archie had a steep history with the franchise of over two decades of published comics up to that point. The new rebooted timeline picked up directly after an incredibly dramatic plot point describing how that new universe came to be, and a lot of the story drama directly originated from the fact that Sonic and his friends had to come to terms with a previous existence feeling foreign to them while also dredging up unpleasant memories that they didn't know still lingered. That is heavily ingrained in familiarity and fondness for the established book and cast, regardless of whether or not it's a new beginning. It's still very much set up to play on the readers being at least tangentially familiar with what has proceeded, which is a veritable 200+ issues worth of stories.

IDW Sonic doesn't have that luxury, nor should it yet. They're not just aiming at longtime series veterans, but rather a much more expanded audience - even people who have no idea what a Sonic is. Compare IDW Sonic's beginning 8 issues to Archie's true first 8 issues, from the beginning in '92? And I think that'd be a much fairer point of comparison than Post Super Genesis Wave is. 

I kinda disagree with that. Yes, the differences in the circumstances are important and something you have to understand in order to make a good comparison, but it's not a reason to dismiss the very idea of comparing both. Even if the comparisons changed, some of the differences of choice made in how Flynn did the introduction of the Post-SGW and of IDW are not necessarily based on theses different circumstances, and are interesting to compare.

Even if the plot points are different, there are many things that are comparable, as both group of issues had basically the same role, but in different circumstances (especially as Flynn wanted an hard reboot, and not the memory thing. That's why they removed it that fast). So yup, they are comparable, and there comparison are interesting to understand things about the work routine of Ian Flynn. Personally, I don't think that everything that they do and that we attribute to "making thing easier to newcomers", like the invasion of unnamed villages™ and the "episodic" feels of the first arc (even if how great the character were written was pretty good, and so it wasn't such a problem for a lot of readers) were good ideas, and that even with all things considered, there are some things that I prefer in ArchieSonic (especially as I discovered more as a newcomer the Archie reboot, as I did only read some old issues before, and hadn't really a good understanding of Archies' lore -- but I was a game veteran though).

 

So, having different circumstances doesn't made every comparison void, especially when the question is « which introduction story do you prefer ».

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6 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

I kinda disagree with that. Yes, the differences in the circumstances are important and something you have to understand in order to make a good comparison, but it's not a reason to dismiss the very idea of comparing both. Even if the comparisons changed, some of the differences of choice made in how Flynn did the introduction of the Post-SGW and of IDW are not necessarily based on theses different circumstances, and are interesting to compare.

Even if the plot points are different, there are many things that are comparable, as both group of issues had basically the same role, but in different circumstances (especially as Flynn wanted an hard reboot, and not the memory thing. That's why they removed it that fast). So yup, they are comparable, and there comparison are interesting to understand things about the work routine of Ian Flynn. Personally, I don't think that everything that they do and that we attribute to "making thing easier to newcomers", like the invasion of unnamed villages™ and the "episodic" feels of the first arc (even if how great the character were written was pretty good, and so it wasn't such a problem for a lot of readers) were good ideas, and that even with all things considered, there are some things that I prefer in ArchieSonic (especially as I discovered more as a newcomer the Archie reboot, as I did only read some old issues before, and hadn't really a good understanding of Archies' lore -- but I was a game veteran though).

 

So, having different circumstances doesn't made every comparison void, especially when the question is « which introduction story do you prefer ».

I don't think what I'm saying here is quite being understood fully. My point is that comparing the two as introductions is inherently a flawed comparison, because one is a soft timeline reboot of a book over twenty years old and the other is a completely new book being marketed to both series fans and newcomers alike. I'm not saying either way that one or the other is better, but that's just it - I think it's unfair to compare the two because they are fundamentally different in ways that simply make the comparison mundane, at least in my opinion.

I like both the Archie and IDW comics for the record, but I think IDW having a slow start is something that's more than tolerable with the quality of writing at hand. Not to mention the Archie comics took way longer to get off the ground with a continuous story when it started, being mostly a gag comic at the start.

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14 hours ago, Silent Jack said:

Now... I know we can't compare yet the 2 books, IDW vs Archie, maybe when Year 1 is over, but which introduction story do you prefer? Since all 8 issues have been introductions for now, compared to Countdown to Chaos?

If you want to be fair and compare IDW with the start of Archie Post-Reboot?

Despite not finding IDW bad, I’d say Archie. They both kinda started similar, basically throwing you into the setting without you know everything, but Archie kinda blended this in by having Sonic still trying to figure things out himself, and as such we learned everything along with him. It had more energy to it’s start and I was far more curious to what was going on there than I was here with IDW. That it didn’t come off as too formulaic by comparison probably helps.

It’s not without it’s faults, like how it handled itself with plot details only those who had already kept up with the comic would know about. That part would be confusing, even moreso when they never really were allowed to build upon it, so those just starting to read would never really know about it unless they read past issues—IDW does this too, but it does this from jumping off the games, at a much different pace that goes from weak to strong at times.

But, Archie definitely had the stronger start, even with its hiccups. That said IDW doesn’t make me as curious about the world like Archie did, so that also made a difference.

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I want to confess something: in its current state, I'm not really feeling this series. I mean no ill will towards ANYONE working on this comic, nor do I belittle anyone liking this comic, but I came here to state some constructive criticism that I have with the book.

Here are my issues:

  1. The pacing in this book feels... sluggish. Not much goes on in one book, and it's kind of starting to feel formulaic. Just bash up some robots, and maybe a bit of plot at the end. This is a bit of a generalization, but I think you get the point. This leads into...

  2. I feel this book is lacking in substance. It looks very pretty, for the most part, especially with ABT. However, I feel as if many things lack the soul of the Archie series. First off, the characterization and character interactions, while nice, can feel a bit same-y. The next thing is that most of the characters bounce off of Sonic, and Sonic only. You could argue that he's the main character, but it'd be nice if other characters are there to bounce of each other, like Tails and Knuckles, Whisper and Tangle, etc. Did I mention that Neo Metal kinda felt predictable? Like, he was predicted to be the guy in the chair since the first issue. Finally, there's none of that pizzazz that the Archie comics had, pre-boot nor post-boot. It feels too close to the games rather than being the "blank slate" that was promised last year.

  3. The book is WAY too centered on Sonic. I know that he's the main character, but Archie could focus on multiple characters and still tell a really compelling story. Also, he's too highly worshiped, such as the first book, where one of them said would potentially DIE just for Sonic to wink at them.

  4. Despite being hyped to death, with all the fanart and stuff, I feel that Tangle and Whisper add NOTHING to the story. As in, they could be taken out and nothing of value would of been lost. These character shouldn't be treated like this, and they should leave more of an impact on the reader.

I don't know if this is fatigue of Ian Flynn, mandates from Sega, or something... but for right now, I just don't feel that this comic has enough to actually CARE about. Of course this could change in the future, and I hope it does. Again, I don't have anything against them, but for some reason or another, this book feels... off.

I don't hate this comic, but I feel it could be SO much better. Here are some suggestions:

  1. Have more character-driven stories. There's more to a comic book than just action. Give the characters some development, make them feel more real and relatable, and, y'know, make me care about them.

  2. Have some some subplots/backup-stories. There is a vast majority of stories you can tell. They don't all have to be "defeat Eggman/villain of the week".

  3. Give other characters more spotlight and more meaning to the story. You created new characters for a reason, and they should be used for more than just hype material.

  4. Put in some worldbuilding. None of the towns in this book so far are named, nor are mayors of towns. It's minor, but I think it needs to be said. If this is going to be a long-running comic, it needs to have a world that is memorable.

I'm saying all of this for one reason: to make the comic something that is good for everybody. I'm not asking for another Archie, but I think it should break away from the games enough to get its own identity, and feel more satisfying to read.

I want this book to be beyond great, to surpass Archie Sonic, but to do that, we need to speak up.

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I just find it dull. I'm not a vapid Archie reader or much of a follower, but a lot of the story is basically just retelling the same thing over and over again with different characters. Basically hitting the same notes. There are some exceptions but even then nothing really investment worthy. There's nothing that wraps me into wanting read the current or next issues. "Neo is heading to Angel Island!!!" eh.....not very spectacular. Unless there's a reason that's not probably the most obvious path. It doesn't help that only few people really have some sort of individual driving force. Sonic's the only driving force, but if they really want to go that route...his path is not interesting...at all. The closest we've had is how he was around Mr. Tinker....that's about the one time the story made me give a crap....outside if Tails would stop sucking...but as an actual story beat...the Mr. Tinker stuff is pretty much what I am most interested in, and wanting to see where they go with it.

Have Mr. Tinker become a cornerstone of Sonic before the eventual return to evil, which rips out the heart strings. Have him truly be a good guy, and be a huge asset until the tragic day it ends. Have him become like one of the best members of the good side to count on. Have him save lives, save the heroes, and pretty much earn his spot as a true hero. Then eventually turn him heel again to make it sad. 

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@PublicEnemy1 I’m enjoying the book just fine but I understand your concerns regarding characters and world building.

You also bring up something that I feel the Archie series did well; having subplots that move the series forward as much as whatever Sonic was doing at the moment. 

Hopefully we get more meaningful interactions between the other characters and locations with actual names in the future.

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