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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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2 hours ago, StaticMania said:

As usual? There hasn't even been a game released since the IDW comics have started...who even knows what they'll know.

The backlash from Sonic Forces is huge, it would be insane if Sonic Team doesnt notice it and tries to improve (=no bitchy Tails, no Classic Sonic, have everybody do something)

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I loved Sonic and Amy in issue #2, Knuckles in issue #3 and Blaze in issue #4. Then we have Metal Sonic and Silver and Whisper. Tangle kind of disappointed me, she's just a toned down Sonic for now, I was hoping for a little subplot but instead I got it with Whisper, which is a lot more unique.

Tails also was so-so, I mean he was perfect in the sense that he was nice (not a jerk like in the games), not a coward like in Forces, he's written well but there wasn't anything interesting in issue #1, so... it was a bland introduction to be honest, there was very little to it, and it's kind of sad because the first issue is supposed to grab you for the whole series, thankfully it seems fans are sticking around, but for me it's like, the worst issue of the bunch.

Mr. Tinker is also good but compared to Dr. Eggman, eh, I definitely want to see my favorite villain back!

Shadow, Rouge and the Chaotix were good too, I thought, but I still preferred Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Blaze, Silver, Neo Metal Sonic and Whisper. And I'm very hyped for next arc and I hope everyone gets a chance to shine in it!

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1 hour ago, I Love Sticks said:

Mr. Tinker is also good but compared to Dr. Eggman, eh, I definitely want to see my favorite villain back!

I think that is pretty much inevitable. If the Mr. Tinker angle isn't resolved in the next 4 issues, I would wager it will be resolved in 2019.

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1 hour ago, I Love Sticks said:

Tangle kind of disappointed me, she's just a toned down Sonic for now,

I thought she was barely even that in practice.

1 hour ago, I Love Sticks said:

 I was hoping for a little subplot but instead I got it with Whisper, which is a lot more unique.

 

Definitely.

1 hour ago, I Love Sticks said:

 

Tails also was so-so, I mean he was perfect in the sense that he was nice (not a jerk like in the games), not a coward like in Forces, he's written well but there wasn't anything interesting in issue #1, so... it was a bland introduction to be honest, there was very little to it, and it's kind of sad because the first issue is supposed to grab you for the whole series, thankfully it seems fans are sticking around, but for me it's like, the worst issue of the bunch.

 

I think part of that could be that Tails is probably most "boring" of the characters. Part of that sentiment has to do with what I remember of him in Boom, I realize, but yeah.

Stick him in the first issue, which is...well, the first episode, and you'll likely just get a so-so.

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38 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I thought she was barely even that in practice.

Definitely.

I think part of that could be that Tails is probably most "boring" of the characters. Part of that sentiment has to do with what I remember of him in Boom, I realize, but yeah.

Stick him in the first issue, which is...well, the first episode, and you'll likely just get a so-so.

The thing with tails is that I like the idea of tails more than tails actually. Tails is pretty boring, he's just... nice? I guess that's why they often try to give him attitude because there's nothing really there. He was a character for all of adventure 1 and 2 and in sonic x but a lot of the time he just kind of exists to be a guy who builds things for plot convenience. Hopefully this comic gives him a bit of character again. 

Also if we are ranking characters I would put shadow as we have seen so far as lowest on the totem pole, highest might be amy. Everyone else was pretty good, though I don't really have high expectation since its the beginning of the book. Hopefully things improve 

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20 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The thing with tails is that I like the idea of tails more than tails actually. Tails is pretty boring, he's just... nice? I guess that's why they often try to give him attitude because there's nothing really there. He was a character for all of adventure 1 and 2 and in sonic x but a lot of the time he just kind of exists to be a guy who builds things for plot convenience. Hopefully this comic gives him a bit of character again. 

More or less the issue.

He's a kid prodigy who sometimes has self-worth issues and was somewhat cutesy in nonverbal presentations. In actual story presentation aside from SA1(and for better or worse Lost World and Forces), he's mainly the somewhat hypercompetent, expositing straight man.

20 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also if we are ranking characters I would put shadow as we have seen so far as lowest on the totem pole, highest might be amy. Everyone else was pretty good, though I don't really have high expectation since its the beginning of the book. Hopefully things improve 

That's fairly accurate, off the top of my head.

Again, we're barely 10 issues into this, what, 20 page comicseries? If the game cast we have preestablished exposure, storytelling, presentation, and biases for sometimes clock in as around okay, the newer cast being introduced from scratch definitely need time to really leave much impact. 

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In some games Tails is boring, and in others he's not. It sorta depends on the game. Kinda like for all characters really. Sometimes they're better, and other times they're worse. He's definitely shined the least in IDW as despite actually being a well rounded character again, he was still pretty much point for point what we expect from Flynn. He's good again, but good in the sense of being at the starting point he should have always been that the games have dropped the ball on. They honestly could do a story arch on how pathetic he was in Forces, and going for a redemption arc. That'd have probably made issue 1 better if that was his motivation.

I mean he's back in issue 6...or was it 7......in any case he barely showcases himself at all there so it doesn't look good. Though I enjoyed his brief interaction with Knuckles. How a "Super Genius with Sonic's powers is much worse than just a Super Genius", even if Eggman wasn't the culprit. Instead of in Boom or the modern series where this interaction would make Tails look like an asshole and make Knuckles look stupid, it instead has Tails apologize and as Knuckles put it, take the small victories when you can. Though seeing Forces, I bet Knuckles was very used to that idea.

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What I hated the most was in Generations, where only Sonic, Tails and Eggman were allowed to talk in main scenes, the others were only cheering or being silent or saying "Sonic, you can do it! You're the best!", yeah they had their cutscenes where they were rescued and spoke to Sonic but it wasn't an interaction, it was just a one way dialogue without Sonic talking. Generations had perhaps the worst story, but at least the characters were there.

Yeah, I definitely preferred Forces' story, the characters were at least talking, without personality though, it was just exposition I guess? And that is a crime because I'm a big fan of the Sonic cast, they are so diverse and full of personality IMO, they are definitely underused.

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4 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

Generations had perhaps the worst story, but at least the characters were there.

 

Pretty much.

And at the very least, it made for some neat sightgags/references and mini-interactions(if you can call em that).

6 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

Yeah, I definitely preferred Forces' story, the characters were at least talking, without personality though, it was just exposition I guess? And that is a crime because I'm a big fan of the Sonic cast, they are so diverse and full of personality IMO, they are definitely underused.

Yeah, that's the thing with Forces. It has most of these characters together in such an official dire setup interacting and occasionally playing off each other as a true cohesive unit, but the plot overall is overly simple for it's fairly complicated setup and some characters are under-showcased or even flat out absent.

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On September 5, 2018 at 5:02 AM, I Love Sticks said:

I loved Sonic and Amy in issue #2, Knuckles in issue #3 and Blaze in issue #4. Then we have Metal Sonic and Silver and Whisper. Tangle kind of disappointed me, she's just a toned down Sonic for now, I was hoping for a little subplot but instead I got it with Whisper, which is a lot more unique.

Tails also was so-so, I mean he was perfect in the sense that he was nice (not a jerk like in the games), not a coward like in Forces, he's written well but there wasn't anything interesting in issue #1, so... it was a bland introduction to be honest, there was very little to it, and it's kind of sad because the first issue is supposed to grab you for the whole series, thankfully it seems fans are sticking around, but for me it's like, the worst issue of the bunch.

Mr. Tinker is also good but compared to Dr. Eggman, eh, I definitely want to see my favorite villain back!

Shadow, Rouge and the Chaotix were good too, I thought, but I still preferred Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Blaze, Silver, Neo Metal Sonic and Whisper. And I'm very hyped for next arc and I hope everyone gets a chance to shine in it!

I think the problem with Tails is that, when compared to the other characters, he is handled in a more "by the book" manner, with very little of new to surprise the audience with. Even the episode of Sonic Mania Adventures dedicated to Tails suffered of the same thing.

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41 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

I think the problem with Tails is that, when compared to the other characters, he is handled in a more "by the book" manner, with very little of new to surprise the audience with. Even the episode of Sonic Mania Adventures dedicated to Tails suffered of the same thing.

I mean, he's literally the most prominent character in the series behind Sonic & Eggman. What can you actually do with him that hasn't been done yet? Most of the time they try to add "conflict" to him and Sonic's dynamic and it just comes off as forced.

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he's literally the most prominent character in the series behind Sonic & Eggman. What can you actually do with him that hasn't been done yet? Most of the time they try to add "conflict" to him and Sonic's dynamic and it just comes off as forced.

Give him his own little subplots, relationships, and side concerns?

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26 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he's literally the most prominent character in the series behind Sonic & Eggman. What can you actually do with him that hasn't been done yet? Most of the time they try to add "conflict" to him and Sonic's dynamic and it just comes off as forced.

I think that with Tails it's more a case of him falling victim to his "best friend of Sonic" status, since it imposes some serious limitations of what can be done both with Tails as a character and his dynamic with Sonic, which seems to only exist in two forms: best super dupper buddies because ST says so, or forced conflict and drama that makes no sense.

I feel that because the other characters like Amy or Knuckles don't have to live up to such a role, there is more room to do stuff with them, on top of how they bring something to bounce off: Amy likes Sonic and wants what is best for him, but Sonic is afraid of compromising his freedom (even if Amy is far from being a threat to it) due to his selfish love for it. With Knuckles, there is this character with a wonded pride and ego that wants to show off to be better, or tries to undermine Sonic's achievements out of being jealous of him and the attention he gets. In contrast, Tails has less to work with because he HAS TO BE the BEST friend. 

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To sortof recontextualise this discussion, I do think it is worth pointing out though that in the IDW run thus far, every issue has been very much focused on Sonic, with issues #1-#4 and #8 basically being: Tails AND Sonic fight Badniks, Amy AND Sonic fight Badniks, Knuckles AND Sonic fight a pair of idiots, Blaze, Tangle AND Sonic fight Badniks, Silver, Whisper AND Sonic fight Badniks. Sure, we get a little bit of other characters interacting with each other besides Sonic, like the Chaotix and Rouge having a neat interaction, Tangle being impressed by Blaze, Silver is a massive fanboy for Whisper.

Again, it does seem like the upcoming 4 parter's plot will basically have basically the core Sonic game cast and Whisper and Tangle in one big battle, which could potentially lead into some actual sub plots, meaning that characters will be forced to fight Badniks with other people who are not Sonic. I am curious to see what interactions we get, especially with 2 newcomers. I actually think it is interesting that Blaze and Silver get to interact with the 2 newbies, because honestly out of the core Sonic game cast, I think Blaze and Silver are probably the characters who could really use some more relationships with other Sonic characters. Sure, Blaze has Cream and Marine I guess, but they are both tertiary, while Silver essentially has noone really. (I havn't played the Rivals games, I understand Silver teams up with Espio in the second game but that seemingly has never been acknowledged afterwards, at least as far as I know.) I honestly think it would work out for Blaze and Silver if Tangle and Whisper became best friends with each of them honestly.

Still, some potential team ups are possible. Tangle is such an energetic character, I could see her getting on with Amy like a house on fire, being goofy with the Chaotix, or turning out to be a big fan of Shadow. Whisper and Tails seem like they'd get on, depending on how Tails is written he does come across as a bit introverted at times, not to mention shy around strangers, and he could discuss tech with Whisper with her weaponary. I think Blaze would get on well with Whisper too actually, Blaze has always been a reined in character who keeps herself in check, I could see her hanging out with the quiet and solitary Whisper.

I think it has been pointed out before but ofcourse these IDW comics don't seem to continue the Archie trend of usually having a roughly 16 page A story and a 6 page B story in each issue. (I'm only up to #216 in Archie's run, so I don't know if that gets phased out later.) The thing was, in alot of those issues, the A story tended focus on Sonic + 1-3 Freedom Fighters fighting someone. Sure, not all the time, especially when issues focused on Sally since she for alot of the run she could be argued as the co-protagonist.

But that tended to be the pattern, for all intents and purposes, alot of stories where Sonic was the main star. It was just that the B story was often dedicated to other characters so they could get a turn in the spotlight, and all the continuity that was built up over 200 issues was used as building blocks for Sonic's world and future stories. Here, the only building blocks we have is the Modern Sonic game continuity, which can be a bit bare and scattershot. Whereas Archie Sonic has the advantage of always have a base like Knothole for the heroes to all stay so that it was convenient for whatever the plot was, compared to here where there is no central location, and Sonic has basically ran into everyone bar the Chaotix and Team Dark by accident. Maybe Angel Island can be made Sonic's base after #12, or maybe find story reasons for Sonic and friends to stay in a new city or village, like the Unnamed Village from Boom.

Whisper and Tangle are the first building blocks, with Whisper's mysterious past, and Tangle having potential avenues for her character. It's just a case where the comic is taking its time, and I'm hoping #9 will kick things into higher gear. Hopefully what we are seeing is the seeds planted for fresh stories in the next few years, where by #50, IDW's Sonic is its own distinct identity, even if far closer to game Sonic rather than the super deviated Sonic we saw in Archie around #100-#159 or the Fleetway run, which arguably to some isn't exactly a bad thing.

I must admit as well, having gotten super into Sonic Universe, I can't help but feel like IDW could do its own take with a second book. Granted it could be a while until that happens, I'm sure it depends on how succesful the main book is for a period of time, but I think it could work. I find it interesting as well because, as sucky as it is to lose the Freedom Fighters, there is the upside where we could see certain characters like Silver, Blaze and the Chaotix get more screentime because of it. Sometimes cutting the fat can be a good thing, and while I don't see the core FFs that way, it does mean we don't have fifty characters all vying for screentime, so it could lead to less of an anthology of stories, but rather shifting between just a dozen in their own ways.

And hey, as a sidenote, we are ofcourse getting the Team Sonic Racing tie-in, which I think should be fun and possibly better than the game itself. I honestly want to read it just to see how Silver and Blaze get roped into Team Vector personally.

Sorry, I like to waffle.

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5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he's literally the most prominent character in the series behind Sonic & Eggman. What can you actually do with him that hasn't been done yet? Most of the time they try to add "conflict" to him and Sonic's dynamic and it just comes off as forced.

Laughs in robin

So goddamn much, you don't even understand. 

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5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he's literally the most prominent character in the series behind Sonic & Eggman. What can you actually do with him that hasn't been done yet? Most of the time they try to add "conflict" to him and Sonic's dynamic and it just comes off as forced.

I have my own thoughts on that:

https://board.sonicstadium.org/profile/44342-sonic-fan-j/?status=932821&type=status

Quote

Tails on the other hand has historically played the role of sidekick/support to only Sonic, and while this is a key aspect of his character, it tended to be played up more substantially to the point that he was oftentimes hamstrung in most of his interactions with anyone other than Sonic. Even when he had pseudo-rivalries with the likes of Eggman and Wave, they were often tangential because his encounters with the two also overlapped with Sonic interacting with Eggman and Wave’s boss, Jet, so any potential relationship dynamics he could have had with them is shunted aside for supporting Sonic. Going back to Amy, it should be noted that more often than not in pre-Unleashed Sonic games, Amy often tends to encounter many of the other characters separately from Sonic, thus allowing her character to show more layers and depth (showing pity to Gamma, feeling empathy to Shadow, and encouraging Silver and later condemning his behavior after she finds out his real intentions) without Sonic’s presence. Tails almost NEVER interacts with anyone without Sonic being less than arms length away.

Mind you, it’s not like it would be impossible for Tails to develop beyond this, and develop his own relationships with Eggman, Wave, and various other characters, but he’s just not put in any situations that allows him to do so, or any situations where he is tends to get squandered or never used.

 

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5 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

I think that with Tails it's more a case of him falling victim to his "best friend of Sonic" status, since it imposes some serious limitations of what can be done both with Tails as a character and his dynamic with Sonic, which seems to only exist in two forms: best super dupper buddies because ST says so, or forced conflict and drama that makes no sense.

I feel that because the other characters like Amy or Knuckles don't have to live up to such a role, there is more room to do stuff with them, on top of how they bring something to bounce off: Amy likes Sonic and wants what is best for him, but Sonic is afraid of compromising his freedom (even if Amy is far from being a threat to it) due to his selfish love for it. With Knuckles, there is this character with a wonded pride and ego that wants to show off to be better, or tries to undermine Sonic's achievements out of being jealous of him and the attention he gets. In contrast, Tails has less to work with because he HAS TO BE the BEST friend. 

This is also important. For a few reasons, Tails falls victim to this partially because a lot of his fan base wants him to be that. Not trying to be aggressive or attack types of fans, but I feel like a good chunk of his fanbase are classic fans who only like him when he's silent cute and flying and don't really care for him or any sonic character having a character and get mad every time they attempt to give him one. So tails now seems to be responding to people who want him to be something, and people who want him to be nothing and weirdly trying to be both resulting a character that isn't great. 

My stance on this is simple " Those people are stupid, they will ruin story telling, ignore them " but that's just me, i'm not in control of the franchise. They can't want silent cute fox , if that's their thing. 

On the 2nd part of your response kinda keys into a problem with the characters in the franchise in general. The closer you get them to sonic the more uninteresting they become, the same thing happened to knuckles where the last major complaints over the past few years is he doesn't do anything and he's just sonic's dumb friend now. Amy's character like in things in boom got more interesting when she had other non sonic shit that she was about. And luckily they stopped before they tried to turn shadow into his best friend or something. Sonic is a black hole of characterization because to be frank, when sonic is written by sonic team his character is almost self...severing ( we will use that term instead of what I was going to write )  in a way that's just terrible. Because to be frank again sonic by sonic team is written like bad anime tropes, and while when done well it can be endearing. When done poorly all you get is people worshiping the protagonist or certain characters and no one getting to grow and develop on their own. 

They need to let tails and amy treat sonic like he's kind of just, a dude. And talk to other people

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35 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Have to agree. He's so religiously tied to Sonic, and creepily so in Forces, that he barely gets to go out on his own to make an impact. He's done so sometimes, but majority dictates he doesn't, and because of it suffers by not having other people to play off of more often. It's come to the point where he's either just the vessel for exposition rather than being a character ala Generations most prominently, a jackass ala Lost World and Boom, or a coward ala Forces and arguably Unleashed.

It's the mystery door simulator. Door number 1 is the shy, cute, Classic persona. Door number 2 is Jimmy Neutron Lite. Door number 3 is Luigi Lite.

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I say Luigi Lite in one category because Luigi's cowardliness actually DOES do something for his character. It's why a lot of people latch onto him more than Mario. He's a coward, but one who rises up against his fears ala Mansion/RPG titles. His cowardice isn't merely limited to showing he's fragile and needs his brother to save him. It enhances his character, it makes him more endearing, and you just feel sorry for him as he's very accident prone even in victory. Being a coward isn't bad for Luigi as it is used well to build up his character, make people fall for his adorkableness, and not merely turn him into a damsel in distress. It's a weakness that brings strength to his overall character.

In contrast Tails' cowardliness adds nothing at all to him, or at least how he's currently written with said cowardly behavior. It's only used as to make him look bad, and be the damsel Sonic must rescue. Tails cowardly portrayal doesn't have that same perk that it does for Luigi. It's not something he has to face and overcome, it's not something that's focused about him, and it only serves to have a scene where Classic Sonic saves him. Did it at least make Classic Sonic look good.....not really....he coulda squashed a badnik and gotten the same result. 

Weak moments for characters is a good thing. Too many weak moments or nonsensical ones only serve to have the character appear lesser. The coward trope doesn't make a coward bad, if it's used in a way not to just shame a character. 

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