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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I would assume they wanna see Amy do..."something"...which is asking an awful lot. Since she usually does nothing, less than nothing even.

That's very interesting.

There's no way we can satisfy fans of every single character when all of them are in the same story. But Flynn still did a good job of giving a moment for each one.

Future stories with less characters will give them more focus.

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1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 

Knuckles is doing something in most of IDW, the games, and Boom and he gets to be himself not having to mature or grow up if Amy got that amount of spotlight I would not be worried.  

Yea, because the current arc takes place on his island and the main villain is targeting something he guards, no fucking shit he's going to play a major role here. Knuckles didn't do anymore than Amy in Forces, and both of them get about the same screentime in Boom. So what the hell is this imaginary thing you made up that apparently Amy "gets no screentime."  When the plot concerns Amy, then she will be important. So why are you complaining now about Amy in an arc that has nothing to do with her?

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17 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

All she did was get beaten and call for Sonic for help. Knuckles at least took out some mook enemies.

It's been forever since I've seen it, so I'm afraid I don't remember much beside the major plot beats, Vector's cameo, the fact that she doesn't help take Metal out for whatever reason, and the final(and possibly unintentionally fitting) joke/line.

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I somehow have a feeling that if during Amy, Shadow or whoever's eventual arc, if people turned around and said "this issue sucked because Knuckles or *insert character here* is being spotlighted!", those people would be very annoyed, right?

And Knuckles had been getting spotlight a lot? Are you kidding me? He's been treated as a complete and total joke in the main series for years now. Amy smacked his ass into a tree in Generations as a gag, and that's probably the most impactful role he got in the entirety of the game. He, the third playable character in the series got reduced down to being a gag for Amy's love. 

Lost World had him not only be treated like an idiot, but also tumbled over by flickies and various other animals. Boom completely flanderized him into a complete idiot who, while very funny is as far away as you can get from Knuckles' original character as you can get. Knuckles did get episodes in Boom to shine, but said episodes usually followed around his Boom persona and the antics that become created through his character's stupidity, like Mayor Knuckles, or the Chili episode. 

The only place where Knuckles has gotten any kind of spotlight in his original persona was Archie Knuckles, because at the very least Ian's characterization balanced his duties, his hot-headness, his nativity, and so much more. Not to mention that Knuckles' "major" arcs was shared between multiple characters (First being the Chaotix, then with Shadow, then with Amy). There's no problem with that, I liked Knuckles' post reboot arcs a lot in Archie Sonic, but it's not to say he's been completely spotlighting and nothing else. To be absolutely frank, considering Shadow got a full arc to himself based as a sequel to his own game, and focusing in on him and Team Dark, he technically got better treatment in terms of spotlighting an arc.

The only time Knuckles has had any sort of half-decent spotlight in years was Mania and Forces, and that's because one was written with his Mega Drive portrayal in mind, which not only held the original spirit of the character, but still used him to great comedic effect, while the other tried to at least put him in a role that benefits from his duties as the protector of the Master Emerald, and that's not even to mention the fact Amy got a ton more spotlight than him in Lost World, being the one in constant communication with Sonic, and furthermore in Forces, it was established she was pretty much in a partnership with Knuckles as leader, helping him run operations.

This is why I find this whole complaint so utterly ridiculous. No one has gotten good treatment in the mainline series of games for ages. Even Forces and Mania is still pretty iffy with their portrayals. If the first major arc is resolving Angel Island, of course Knuckles is going to be the one who gets the spotlight for this arc. The reason that's the first arc is because of the fact it's the one that makes the most sense, because everyone was wondering what had happened to the Master Emerald in Forces, and why Knuckles was the resistance leader instead of protecting the emerald, and add that onto the fact that one of the promotional tie-in comics SEGA commissioned actually showed the Master Emerald as Silver tried to recruit Knuckles, it makes the most sense the first major arc would revolve around resolving that loose end.

At the end of the day, it's pretty exceedingly obvious that Amy, Shadow and whoever else will get their time in the spotlight at a later point. Look at this from the opposite viewpoint. If you eventually got your Amy arc, or Shadow arc, or whatever, would you be happy that people are unfairly criticising the arc - not for legitimate problems - but because a certain character who makes sense to be involved in the arc is being spotlighted over another character? If we got an arc based around the Dark Arms invading, or around Maria, or whatever else, would you feel it's a fair criticism to shout about how Knuckles isn't being spotlighted at every second when it's meant to be Shadow's arc? Because I frankly don't think it would be a very fair criticism. The same way doing this now to Knuckles isn't really a fair criticism to the arc as a whole.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Yea, because the current arc takes place on his island and the main villain is targeting something he guards, no fucking shit he's going to play a major role here. Knuckles didn't do anymore than Amy in Forces, and both of them get about the same screentime in Boom. So what the hell is this imaginary thing you made up that apparently Amy "gets no screentime."  When the plot concerns Amy, then she will be important. So why are you complaining now about Amy in an arc that has nothing to do with her?

Yeah, I agree. That's typically how efficient storytelling is supposed to work. The Sonic series may think it's a good idea to shove characters in whenever they want but for a normal series that care at least one iota about what they're writing that's usually not considered to be a good idea.

On a personal note, it's hard caring about the screentime of characters who, no matter what, appear all the time anyway. Character writing and story contribution is a different story of course.

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26 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Look at this from the opposite viewpoint. If you eventually got your Amy arc, or Shadow arc, or whatever, would you be happy that people are unfairly criticising the arc - not for legitimate problems - but because a certain character who makes sense to be involved in the arc is being spotlighted over another character? 

Ya know, this is totally a thing and all, but it seems pretty obvious that bias clouds that type of thinking very heavily. It's literally never worth bringing up, it just doesn't get acknowledged.

It depends how much the person is in the mindset of "only care about the things that make me happy" or something...

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7 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Silver's arguably had the most that actually tied to his character due to the card scene being more reliant on his personality, but it was still a very minor part and I don't even remember him being in issue 10. And issue 10 is what compounds the feeling of them being flotsam in this arc. 

 

He was covering Tails in the bridge of the Egg Fleet ship he commandeered.

7 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-The dialogue felt more like direct exposition than character interaction this time, so it was a lot more stilted than last issue. One of the standouts to me is actually one most people probably would just pass right over. Rouge commenting on the fact that while Tails' plan was successful, she wouldn't have minded more heads up in the future, and Amy's response is "Well, he was practically raised by Sonic, and he's not known for his patience". Like, yeah, Rouge probably knows that by now, she's known everyone long enough. She doesn't need a mini-exposition on Tails and Sonic's characters to lodge a comment about the tactics used. Plus, I thought Tails was known to be pretty patient in comparison to Sonic? Even Lost World got that right. 

 

They probably could've at least made the line snappier, possibly with a closeup panel of Amy sheepishly scratching her cheek.

7 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

-Master Overlord is dumb. I was okay with Metal Overlord to be honest, because while being very out there, it was justified within the context of the game as to how and why it would happen. Here's it's treated as a generic powerup form that's somehow more powerful than his super state with none of the logic behind it for what appears to be the sake of glorifying the importance of a relic Sonic Team haven't seen fit to use in over a decade. Plus the idea that this is just Metal Overlord with some excess bits is also dumb. He also means the super state that last issue teased was basically pointless.

 

Essentially,

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39 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

The only place where Knuckles has gotten any kind of spotlight in his original persona was Archie Knuckles, because at the very least Ian's characterization balanced his duties, his hot-headness, his nativity, and so much more. Not to mention that Knuckles' "major" arcs was shared between multiple characters (First being the Chaotix, then with Shadow, then with Amy). There's no problem with that, I liked Knuckles' post reboot arcs a lot in Archie Sonic, but it's not to say he's been completely spotlighting and nothing else. To be absolutely frank, considering Shadow got a full arc to himself based as a sequel to his own game, and focusing in on him and Team Dark, he technically got better treatment in terms of spotlighting an arc.

 

He also had what was supposed to be an unforunate semifinal arc starring him and Amy include Team Dark as well.

 

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Yea, because the current arc takes place on his island and the main villain is targeting something he guards, no fucking shit he's going to play a major role here. Knuckles didn't do anymore than Amy in Forces, and both of them get about the same screentime in Boom. So what the hell is this imaginary thing you made up that apparently Amy "gets no screentime."  When the plot concerns Amy, then she will be important. So why are you complaining now about Amy in an arc that has nothing to do with her?

Amy could still have a major role when the master emerald is in the plot Knuckles also has a bigger role than Amy in Forces as he is the leader, and he talks more than her. There is no way in the world Amy get the same amount of screen time as Knuckles in Boom's TV show or games she's not even in Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal and Mania. I'm complaining now as I don't want to keep spending my money waiting for her to have a major role that she never seems to get.

 

Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

At the end of the day, it's pretty exceedingly obvious that Amy, Shadow and whoever else will get their time in the spotlight at a later point. Look at this from the opposite viewpoint. If you eventually got your Amy arc, or Shadow arc, or whatever, would you be happy that people are unfairly criticising the arc - not for legitimate problems - but because a certain character who makes sense to be involved in the arc is being spotlighted over another character? If we got an arc based around the Dark Arms invading, or around Maria, or whatever else, would you feel it's a fair criticism to shout about how Knuckles isn't being spotlighted at every second when it's meant to be Shadow's arc? Because I frankly don't think it would be a very fair criticism. The same way doing this now to Knuckles isn't really a fair criticism to the arc as a whole.

Shadow got his own game and many major roles and he doesn't have to change his personality for it to happen and Amy gets unfairly criticize for non legitimate problems all the time so it doesn't bother me.

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20 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy could still have a major role when the master emerald is in the plot Knuckles also has a bigger role than Amy in Forces as he is the leader, and he talks more than her. There is no way in the world Amy get the same amount of screen time as Knuckles in Boom's TV show or games she's not even in Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal and Mania. I'm complaining now as I don't want to keep spending my money waiting for her to have a major role that she never seems to get.

And what would this accomplish to the story beyond just pleasing you? You can't really seem to understand that the world doesn't revolve around Amy and that she doesn't always need a major role in everything.

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And what would this accomplish to the story beyond just pleasing you? You can't really seem to understand that the world doesn't revolve around Amy and that she doesn't always need a major role in everything.

Some can't seem to understand that people can be unhappy with a product or if you don't agree with us then get out. Everything? When was Amy's last major role something I hope IDW does giving her a major role.

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32 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy could still have a major role when the master emerald is in the plot Knuckles also has a bigger role than Amy in Forces as he is the leader, and he talks more than her.

Well, she has been explicitly touted as the "real" leader of the Resistance, so....

32 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

There is no way in the world Amy get the same amount of screen time as Knuckles in Boom's TV show or games she's not even in Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal and Mania.

Actually, it's very possible, as while Knuckles may have had more explicit episodes, Amy was generally involved in most episodes in some form or another.

Also, she was in Shattered Crystal, just not playable.

32 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Shadow got his own game and many major roles and he doesn't have to change his personality for it to happen and Amy gets unfairly criticize for non legitimate problems all the time so it doesn't bother me.

To be fair, Shadow is also quite contentious--just more popular than Amy.

And I think the reason Amy is one of the more varying when it comes to characterization is because she didn't have much of a significant role and backstory compared to most of the cast. She was originally a joke character and was apparently seen as an Anti-Peach by an official--her whole shtick is "Hopelessly Infatuated Fangirl."

 

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Just now, DabigRG said:

And I think the reason Amy is one of the more varying when it comes to characterization is because she didn't have much of a significant role and backstory compared to most of the cast. She was originally a joke character and was apparently seen as an Anti-Peach by an official--her whole shtick is "Hopelessly Infatuated Fangirl."

 

I don't see how or where she was a joke character or a anti Peach all the characters have a "hopelessly Infatuated" like Sonic with speed and Eggman with taking over the world so, yeah... Most of the characters don't have a significant backstory compared to Amy.

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37 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy could still have a major role when the master emerald is in the plot Knuckles also has a bigger role than Amy in Forces as he is the leader, and he talks more than her. There is no way in the world Amy get the same amount of screen time as Knuckles in Boom's TV show or games she's not even in Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal and Mania. I'm complaining now as I don't want to keep spending my money waiting for her to have a major role that she never seems to get.

Western comic is long-running; she WILL have a spotlight eventually, just not now. Ian is a veteran so he should know how these work. I won't complain for now since it's still a year1 introduction phase (yes I know people hate that excuse). I mean, we're still 10? issues in. They're focusing on what can attract attention while giving exposition of the world and stuff.

I hate suggesting this, but if wasting money is a concern there is the option to stop buying until you know she has a major role. In my case: I can't buy every issue, so if the preview for the newest issue doesn't catch my attention I wait and see a bit of spoiler to decide if I want to buy. Of course this doesn't work for everyone, this works for me cuz I don't mind spoilers (I actually get very stressed if I don't know anything about the story beforehand. Boring, I know) and I'm not a collector.

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1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I don't see how or where she was a joke character or a anti Peach

I mean, the Anti-Peach thing is probably more a parallel to Sonic being something of an Anti-Mario, so that's more up in the air.

The joke character thing is pretty obvious, though. Case in point--the Piko Piko Hammer.

1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

all the characters have a "hopelessly Infatuated" like Sonic with speed and Eggman with taking over the world so, yeah... Most of the characters don't have a significant backstory compared to Amy.

1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I don't see how or where she was a joke character or a anti Peach all the characters have a "hopelessly Infatuated" like Sonic with speed and Eggman with taking over the world so, yeah... Most of the characters don't have a significant backstory compared to Amy.

I sorta see what you're getting at, but I also realize that backstory isn't really the word. How about...foundation? Theme? ...Anyone?

But to highlight backstory itself for a second, the Dreamcast and to an extent Modern eras kinda demolish that argument, for better or worse. Most characters have at least some sort of implied background, with over half outright having details regarding their history and upbringing. Amy, as far as I know, falls into the minority in that she just kinda...is.

Oh and on the "Hopelessly Infatuated" thing, most of the other characters' motivations and themes are more tangible and/or flexible in how they can showcased and utilized. Amy being about love and wanting to marry Sonic are more specific and somewhat limiting in the context of the game canon.

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Amy can neither have a romantic relationship with Sonic, nor move on, nor even be given the spotlight long enough to be associated with something besides the fucking crush. An iconic victim of SEGA's dumbshit management and dumpster fire writing ability.

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10 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

We're running into the typical problem Ian has when it comes to writing...his plotting tends to be very boring.

The lack of buildup to this arc and most of the cast feeling superfluous just makes the whole thing...bleh.

You aren't wrong.

Ian wants to like do mysterious and with these " Who's there " elements... but he doesn't have enough space to work with , within the property to do that.  if he wants to do that, he needs to either A axe everyone else but sonic and focus on a sonic only mystery that allows it to actually progress at an interesting pace. Or B, get one more or several more books that allow characters to be isolated enough to make it work in this series. Also you know form mysteries around non eggman characters, but that's not happening anytime soon.

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Personally, I've got a more comprehensive list of why I feel issue 10 is the worst IDW Sonic issue so far. TL;DR it feels like nothing at all has happened. 

Damn , you feel about this how I feel about 6

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-So Silver and the Chaotix could probably be cut from proceedings with little to no consequences. Espio and Charmy have literally had nothing to do in this arc so far. Vector's had a little more, but all those have been are a single conversation with Knuckles that didn't show off any interesting character interaction (and was made redundant by everything going to shit two seconds later) and a background gag which did not rely on him being there to work (contrary to what someone suggested earlier, there was no interesting dynamic made between Vector and Tangle at all. You could replace Vector with anyone and get the same result because the gag punchline was "Tangle has a wild way of doing things that others may be thrown by"). Silver's arguably had the most that actually tied to his character due to the card scene being more reliant on his personality, but it was still a very minor part and I don't even remember him being in issue 10. And issue 10 is what compounds the feeling of them being flotsam in this arc. 

I.. can't really argue any of that

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-Blaze's stuff went nowhere. It'd be one thing if the end of her segment implied there was more to it but...it doesn't. In fact, it implies that's her done for the arc. And all she did as Burning is shoot off a wing (with flying craft still under it, so won't it just stay up there?). That was...unnecessary.

As for this, I would say. I don't think I ever saw it as anything more than " She wasn't in forces, people like her, lets get her in the story somehow " I just hoped it would have a more exciting end for her is al

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-The dialogue felt more like direct exposition than character interaction this time, so it was a lot more stilted than last issue. One of the standouts to me is actually one most people probably would just pass right over. Rouge commenting on the fact that while Tails' plan was successful, she wouldn't have minded more heads up in the future, and Amy's response is "Well, he was practically raised by Sonic, and he's not known for his patience". Like, yeah, Rouge probably knows that by now, she's known everyone long enough. She doesn't need a mini-exposition on Tails and Sonic's characters to lodge a comment about the tactics used. Plus, I thought Tails was known to be pretty patient in comparison to Sonic? Even Lost World got that right. 

I guess this whole year is still being used for introduction, though ... there are characters they havent really properly introduced? In a weird way?

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-The fight scenes just weren't very exciting. You have one team doing their thing with basically zero obstacles, Blaze doing her thing with basically zero obstacles, and then there's the Sonic and Knuckles fight which should be more interesting...but is basically a curb-stomp battle with them being beat around until Shadow shows up and manages to subdue Super Neo Metal Sonic really quickly. That doesn't really make for exciting reading (although it is the only bit with more interesting character interaction). Especially when the net result is...

I feel like this is one of those comic fight scenes that would have been more dynamic in animation, but in comics it just came off kinda flat untill shadow shows up.

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-Master Overlord is dumb. I was okay with Metal Overlord to be honest, because while being very out there, it was justified within the context of the game as to how and why it would happen. Here's it's treated as a generic powerup form that's somehow more powerful than his super state with none of the logic behind it for what appears to be the sake of glorifying the importance of a relic Sonic Team haven't seen fit to use in over a decade. Plus the idea that this is just Metal Overlord with some excess bits is also dumb. He also means the super state that last issue teased was basically pointless.

Also the super form... looked better

12 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

-The Mister Tinker bit was about the best part because it was something intriguing at least. 

Anyway, eating some lunch now. 

This is how I felt about issue 6

14 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Sorry to be harsh, he in fact wrote the comic for everyone, not to appeal to some obsessed Amy fan who wants her to be an angry fangirl.

Amy did plenty of stuff in issue 2 and 9, and she says "I love you" to Sonic in issue 2. That seems enough to make Amy fans happy.

I love Sticks, and she is nowhere to be seen here, am I angry at Ian Flynn? Nope, I love this comic book, and Sticks isn't the only thing I care about.

I would make the argument that to like sticks, you gotta come to terms with the idea that the powers at be may dictate her never seen from again.  And you have to genuinely enjoy every sonic product because you don' even know if your character will be seen again.

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13 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

We're running into the typical problem Ian has when it comes to writing...his plotting tends to be very boring.

The lack of buildup to this arc and most of the cast feeling superfluous just makes the whole thing...bleh.

Yeah pretty much after over a decade you'd think he'd improve upon this. Like for years the excuse was "oh he's dealing with the baggage of previous writers" but even with a fresh blank slate we're still still having this problem. 

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I bought this issue yesterday. I've been enjoying the IDW series a lot so far. I even enjoyed #3 which many thought was the mediocre issue. But wow even I was disappointed by #10. Not much happened at all and the issue itself felt really short. It's like as soon as Shadow came into the picture and Metal does his thing, the issue was over. Very anti-climatic.

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30 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Yeah pretty much after over a decade you'd think he'd improve upon this. Like for years the excuse was "oh he's dealing with the baggage of previous writers" but even with a fresh blank slate we're still still having this problem. 

There's also mandates, can and can't do stuff, but yeah year one is pretty dull so far overall.

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