Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[DabigRG]

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Its an aspect of her character a lot of people forget that I think its pretty cool. I like characters who can just deliver sometimes blunt truths about the situation.

 

(Why was this the first to come to mind?)

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

As apposed to issue 10  ,where he's fighting a boss and sonic offers up information and his response is " What you scared " , what happened to that blunt callous dickishness in issue 6?

 

I couldn't help but wanna chuckle at that since it's so immature.

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Shadow has a lot of comedic potential in that scenario and a lot of scenario's like that, that is going unrealized, almost realized by sonic boom, but they ruined it.

 

 

Yeeeah, I was actually talking about how the Sonic vs Eggman vs Tails vs Deadly Six conflict would probably break completely if you threw Shadow in too.

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

 

Can totally imagine scenario's where new villians unfamiliar with shadow or eggman trying to go through the motions , are just cut short by a shadow really good and just trying to do his job. Shadow has the potentially to be the ultimate straitman and its going unrealized

 

 

Hm...an sample scenario, perhaps?

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Oh I don't agree with dash speed at all, by the way.

I'm just saying " well not being around is helping him " doesn't matter to the people..who are his fans? They want to see him around and doing stuff. That isn't a compromise, if he's not being put in games regularly enough ( good ones ) that make you appreciate his absence. Its a meaningless gesture is all i'm saying

 

I know.

[Dash Speed]

7 hours ago, Scape said:

The series is called "Sonic The Hedgehog." It's from Sonic's perspective. Even Shadow himself wouldn't want to appear too often.

The problem is, SEGA isn't usually making stuff where he'd be appropriate. It's like if Batman only existed in crossovers with Superman.

Sonic is a multi million dollar series and despite his game being horrible Shadow still sold twice as much as Sonic heroes and rush once it debut. Shadow being neglected more and more is bad for business opportunities.

[KoDaiko]

35 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Sonic is a multi million dollar series and despite his game being horrible Shadow still sold twice as much as Sonic heroes and rush once it debut. Shadow being neglected more and more is bad for business opportunities.

...so you are saying companies should prioritize profit over identity? Cuz a lot of fans will think otherwise...

I mean, companies do that regularly, but this is Sonic. Sonic is the Sega mascot and main protagonist of the series. Everything revolves around him cuz it's his game. They may have spinoffs, but overall that's just how it works. Eggman is his main rival/villain, Tails is his best pal/sidekick, Amy/Knuckles are close friends next to Tails.They each have an easy excuse/reason to interact with each other. 

Shadow's a bit different from the rest of Sonic's simple cast and brightly colored world. His character is opposite from flexible, too. His character arc (including being Sonic's "rival") is already done and set so he needs a reason to interact with Sonic, and he's more of a serious, overpowered, edgy loner so they need to be careful in where to put him in; shove him in too much in the wrong place  and he can either destroy the story or lose his appeal. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

...so you are saying companies should prioritize profit over identity? Cuz a lot of fans will think otherwise...

I mean, companies do that regularly, but this is Sonic. Sonic is the Sega mascot and main protagonist of the series. Everything revolves around him cuz it's his game. They may have spinoffs, but overall that's just how it works. Eggman is his main rival/villain, Tails is his best pal/sidekick, Amy/Knuckles are close friends next to Tails.They each have an easy excuse/reason to interact with each other. 

Shadow's a bit different from the rest of Sonic's simple cast and brightly colored world. His character is opposite from flexible, too. His character arc (including being Sonic's "rival") is already done and set so he needs a reason to interact with Sonic, and he's more of a serious, overpowered, edgy loner so they need to be careful in where to put him in; shove him in too much in the wrong place  and he can either destroy the story or lose his appeal. 

I fail to see how none of that applies to Knuckles at least. And no, he doesn’t have an easy excuse to hang with Sonic either—people just ignore the stuff that, in all fairness, should put him in the same boat as Shadow often out of the same favoritism Shadow fanboys put into their favorite.

Even worse when they know how blatantly hypocritical that is and yet they don’t care. It’s not really about appearing too much or easy excuses.

[DabigRG]

25 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I fail to see how none of that applies to Knuckles at least. And no, he doesn’t have an easy excuse to hang with Sonic either—people just ignore the stuff that, in all fairness, should put him in the same boat as Shadow often out of the same favoritism Shadow fanboys put into their favorite.

Even worse when they know how blatantly hypocritical that is and yet they don’t care. It’s not really about appearing too much or easy excuses.

The difference is that Knuckles actually can/could've be gradually accepted if SEGA actually took the time to evolve him to that point.

[PC the Hedgehog]

Insanely awesome main cover for issue 11 by Jon Gray.
 

 

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

(Why was this the first to come to mind?)

She eventually redeemed herself and became not annoying

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I couldn't help but wanna chuckle at that since it's so immature.

huh?

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Yeeeah, I was actually talking about how the Sonic vs Eggman vs Tails vs Deadly Six conflict would probably break completely if you threw Shadow in too.

 

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Hm...an sample scenario, perhaps?

This is sort of the scenario... Just play into shadow breaking shit. I can kind of imagine  a scenario where there's a villian group, and sonic is fighting them and sonic's heroic and quirky and has quips and they have now a certain expectation of the powerset of these characters and how they act. And then shadow comes along and bodies them is dick and leaves and possibly makes the problem worse by doing so. And the villians are sort of reacting to his rather violent dismissal of their existence.

I think people are like " shadow's for a different tone " you can use that and make it hilarious.

People used a batman example, but its  pretty common example when batman has to deal with other folk's villians, he does not have time for this.

 

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I know.

 

[Shadowlax]

9 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

...so you are saying companies should prioritize profit over identity? Cuz a lot of fans will think otherwise...

To be fair companies often do. Its why you get reboots completely redoing the entire identity of  a franchise for younger audiences and different audiences. While yes a lot of companies today like to court their fanbase, they are corperations and will throw you under the bus if they think they can get more money

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I mean, companies do that regularly, but this is Sonic. Sonic is the Sega mascot and main protagonist of the series. Everything revolves around him cuz it's his game. They may have spinoffs, but overall that's just how it works. Eggman is his main rival/villain, Tails is his best pal/sidekick, Amy/Knuckles are close friends next to Tails.They each have an easy excuse/reason to interact with each other. 

I dunno shadow and sonic are heroes that exist in the same world.... or worlds, shadow is out being a hero occasionally them running into each other and doing the hero thing in the same vicinity is bound to happen and isn't unreasonable and doesn't require deep lore to happen.

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Shadow's a bit different from the rest of Sonic's simple cast and brightly colored world. His character is opposite from flexible, too. His character arc (including being Sonic's "rival") is already done and set so he needs a reason to interact with Sonic, and he's more of a serious, overpowered, edgy loner so they need to be careful in where to put him in; shove him in too much in the wrong place  and he can either destroy the story or lose his appeal. 

To be fair. It isn't really that complicated

" Bad thing is happening "

" I am also here to fight thing" edgy hedgehog noises

While yes I appreciate sega trying to preserve shadow, which I dunno I guess makes what happened to knuckles look worse because that sort implies they knew it wasn't great or people wouldn't like it and just didn't care, its kind of an empty gesture for fans of that character

1) Because , you could just put him in stories where he is also fighting the thing and that solves the problems and just give him harder levels.

2) But two, the people who want to see that character want to see that character. As much as you try to separate shadow, and he is kind of separate and his own thing. He's still apart of like the main crew. He's the white ranger of the crew... but he is. Sonic tails, knuckls, amy, eggman, and shadow. And I don't think its an unreasonable expectation  to want to see him more. Most fans aren't like us, they are normal kids , teens and... adults who grew up with sonic adventure who like shadow and wanna see him. So him being his  " Own thing " is an empty gesture, that they don't even hear. They aren't on forums like these

I would like to say again, I do not agree with Dash Speed's passion for shadow, I think its rather obsessive, but I have never found the arguments quoted above to be that good. And more so a mask for sonic teams general incompetence

5 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I fail to see how none of that applies to Knuckles at least. And no, he doesn’t have an easy excuse to hang with Sonic either—people just ignore the stuff that, in all fairness, should put him in the same boat as Shadow often out of the same favoritism Shadow fanboys put into their favorite.

Even worse when they know how blatantly hypocritical that is and yet they don’t care. It’s not really about appearing too much or easy excuses.

I mean like he's sonic's friend

Its just that he also has to guard the master emerald a sort of anchor sega has learned was a mistake ( and I think they are actively taking steps with shadow rn to avoid that mistake )  and instead of rebooting, retconing or just having a reason why knuckles doesn't have to guard it. They have chosen to ignore it entirely...which just makes knuckles look bad at his job

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

The difference is that Knuckles actually can/could've be gradually accepted if SEGA actually took the time to evolve him to that point.

...I'm confused at exactly what you are saying?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

The difference is that Knuckles actually can/could've be gradually accepted if SEGA actually took the time to evolve him to that point.

The same could be said for Shadow, or really any character for that matter.

[KoDaiko]

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I fail to see how none of that applies to Knuckles at least. And no, he doesn’t have an easy excuse to hang with Sonic either—people just ignore the stuff that, in all fairness, should put him in the same boat as Shadow often out of the same favoritism Shadow fanboys put into their favorite.

Even worse when they know how blatantly hypocritical that is and yet they don’t care. It’s not really about appearing too much or easy excuses.

...now you mention, it applies to Knuckles too doesn't it. At this point Sega been handling him like that so I totally forgot. 

 

Also @Shadowlax idk if this is worth quoting but do you reply to quotes as you read or read it full then reply to the entire thing but broken up? This isn't criticism or anything, just found it interesting you reply to one of my sentence by saying something, when I already follow up with the same thing in the next sentence. And it feels like you're treating each separated quote as a different opinion when it's supposed to be a whole connected one.

 

[Shadowlax]

19 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

...now you mention, it applies to Knuckles too doesn't it. At this point Sega been handling him like that so I totally forgot. 

 

Also @Shadowlax idk if this is worth quoting but do you reply to quotes as you read or read it full then reply to the entire thing but broken up? This isn't criticism or anything, just found it interesting you reply to one of my sentence by saying something, when I already follow up with the same thing in the next sentence. And it feels like you're treating each separated quote as a different opinion when it's supposed to be a whole connected one.

 

Depends

But I saw what you had said

I just felt like it was worth reiterating. Sorry if I offended you or something

Also don't worry sega also forgot about knuckles

[KoDaiko]

10 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Depends

But I saw what you had said

I just felt like it was worth reiterating. Sorry if I offended you or something

Nah it's not offensive or anything. I just found it funny (or interesting? idk what's the right word for this)

Sorry if it made you feel bad.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

The same could be said for Shadow, or really any character for that matter.

The difference is they actually did do that with Shadow. They did a lot--a little too well, some would argue.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

She eventually redeemed herself and became not annoying

 

 

I know.

When  was that for you?

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

huh?

 

I was referring to how Shadow came off as just a bi juvenile there with that line.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

This is sort of the scenario... Just play into shadow breaking shit. I can kind of imagine  a scenario where there's a villian group, and sonic is fighting them and sonic's heroic and quirky and has quips and they have now a certain expectation of the powerset of these characters and how they act. And then shadow comes along and bodies them is dick and leaves and possibly makes the problem worse by doing so. And the villians are sort of reacting to his rather violent dismissal of their existence.

 

 

"How DARE he...WE are NOT WEAK!" * Puts Mountain Dew Machine further into Overload *

 

Though actually, that could potentially be a dark little subplot on it's own.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I think people are like " shadow's for a different tone " you can use that and make it hilarious.

People used a batman example, but its  pretty common example when batman has to deal with other folk's villians, he does not have time for this.

 

 

True. "Your shoddy craftsmanship brings shame to all hedgehog kind. And for THAT...you must perish."

You know, unless it's happening in his territory or is significant enough threat.

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

...I'm confused at exactly what you are saying?

That Knuckles could've had a gradually built character arc where he becomes more active, outgoing, and willing to enjoy life beyond the duty he felt destined to do. WIthout completely forsaking it even.

[Shadowlax]

8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

The difference is they actually did do that with Shadow. They did a lot--a little too well, some would argue.

I know.

When  was that for you?

I think her and Trixie hanging out softened my perception of the character overtime, it was gradual.

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I was referring to how Shadow came off as just a bi juvenile there with that line.

Ah, I like it. I I like shadow making mistakes just the ones, he as a character should be making?

I'm a shadow fan. I am also a guy who likes good characterization, good characterization means a lot of thing, and one of them is the character being able to fuck up. And that's a really big fuck up I can see shadow making. Shadow is a dude with socialization and trust issues....for obvious reasons.So him not trusting anyone to do their job enough to go in and try to solve them problem himself, only for him to make the problem worse, is a shadow fuck up. Not going back on his moral development for whatever reason that happened in issue 6.

This happened in the archie book too, while I don't think knuckles and shadow had to fight at all, I do think why they fought  was a shadow fuck up. Shadow just decided " I"m the captain now " and knuckles was not happy with that. Though it might be a bit unfair to compare those two, because tha archie is still better because it had a lot more nuance... like shadow was a dick, but at the core of shadow's arguement I think he's 100% right. ( heck the thing that happening right now proves that he is ) But uh yeah. Less nuance in this story. Though I guess you can view it as " Shadow could have won, too bad he wasn't fighting a normal enemy. Shouldna payed attention "

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"How DARE he...WE are NOT WEAK!" * Puts Mountain Dew Machine further into Overload *

I'm calling the cops

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True. "Your shoddy craftsmanship brings shame to all hedgehog kind. And for THAT...you must perish."

Dunno about that but like

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You know, unless it's happening in his territory or is significant enough threat.

His territory is " earth " and even when sonic unleashed was happening and there was a pretty big threat, he never showed up. So its more whenever sega wants him to be around.

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That Knuckles could've had a gradually built character arc where he becomes more active, outgoing, and willing to enjoy life beyond the duty he felt destined to do. WIthout completely forsaking it even.

That's true. But that would require nuance. And Sega has been actively moving Sonic , Tails and Knuckles away from nuance for years. They are Fast snark boy, flying smart, and dumb punch man and that's about all sega wants them to be. Previous backstories or character developments be damned.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

dumb punch man

We need a One Punch Man cover called Dumb Punch Man, where Knuckles is almighty But is so dumb he keeps on Causing more problems than he fixes.

[Forte-Metallix]

Tracey Yardley posted concept art of Metal's latest "ascension":

I will say this design's better than the original Overlord, but it's still a bit too busy for my tastes. (And the blade-legs are pretty ludicrous) Here's hoping Metal actually uses the Master Emerald properly.

[Diogenes]

Butter knife boy.

[StaticMania]

The sonic helmet looks ridic...

Like really.

[Sonic Fan J]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:58 PM, Shadowlax said:

For the 6 argument I will say , I disagree. Obviously this is known, but I would make the argument that 5 making me think of up cool things and 6 having potential ...doesn't make 6 good. Sonic 06 had potential. I gotta judge a book or an art piece by what is presented, and what's presented in 10 while mostly standard is still way more than 6. That's how I feel

That's cool. I understand that stance and can see why you would feel that way. For me though, the comic is at its core an entertainment periodical and since 6 stimulated my imagination unlike 10 it was the more successful issue for me. Not saying it was good, just that it elicited a reaction out of me unlike 10. Hate it or love, when it comes to entertainment I feel I should never be left apathetic and what elevates 6 above 10 for me; the fact that in the future I can still react to 6 while 10 just doesn't matter one way or the other.

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I think that's a good way to look at amy. Interesting, I guess it makes sense given amy had ( Has? ) a tarot card thing. Amy can be seen as a sort of " the fates brought us together " type of person. However, I see amy differently, The reason I think amy has the potential to be more than girl sonic lite is that well... she's a lot more confrontational than a lot of the other characters in  the cast. Not just in a fight way. Amy is one of the few characters who will actually bother, depending on which interpetation , to tell people about themselves. A lot of the characters seem like live and let live kind of people, but amy who weirdly shares this trait with shadow will just tell people what's up. She's just nice about it

Amy's tell like it is approach is definitely an aspect of her character I rarely isolate that distinctly. I frequently observe the consequences of the actions that stem from that part of her character and frequently enjoy how it helps the narrative when it does appear. I have to say that I really appreciate having it highlighted in an isolated way like this because to me it also plays more into her teasing and rascally aspects as well as she typically wants to do god and make everyone around her happy even if it makes her a little abrasive in the process. In a way I could almost see her being a great foil to Shadow just due to her potential and depth with her adoration of Sonic frequently annoying him. But has been stated above, this is Sonic's story first and stuff like this is secondary and of low priority despite the potential for engaging character studies and narratives.

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I think its cool, obviously don't dedicate your life to it. But I feel like you seeing the potential just speaks to your quality of a writer

If I could I honestly would though. I'm sure you've heard the saying that if you do what you love for a living you never work a day in your life, and well, that's kind of how I am with Sonic. The Sonic franchise makes my life better and helps me keep my emotional instability in check so...

-----

Moving the topic forward a little here, I know that we're pretty much expecting another long fight scene forthcoming, so I'm kind of curious what camp everyone is in involving there anticipation of it. Me, I'm worried it's either going to be a cluttered mess to try and give everyone a moment against Overlord, or that it's going to waste bringing all of the characters along in the first place just to focus on the big guns of Sonic, Shadow, and Knuckles. Honestly though, I'd rather have the second just because it lends itself to better focus which can help the narrative.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

14 hours ago, DabigRG said:

The difference is they actually did do that with Shadow. They did a lot--a little too well, some would argue.

No, that was anything but done well with Shadow if his divisive reception post SA2 is any indicator. The only difference is that unlike Knuckles, they didn’t ignore any of the stuff about Shadow in the most shallow way possible. But what they did was fluff his backstory with elements that essentially came out of nowhere without any hints in his previous entry because they thought it was a cool idea—a habit that still persists within the games.

 

[Shadowlax]

11 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

No, that was anything but done well with Shadow if his divisive reception post SA2 is any indicator. The only difference is that unlike Knuckles, they didn’t ignore any of the stuff about Shadow in the most shallow way possible. But what they did was fluff his backstory with elements that essentially came out of nowhere without any hints in his previous entry because they thought it was a cool idea—a habit that still persists within the games.

 

I don't really the decisiveness means they didn't do it well

He's still the most popular character in the franchise, change...is always divisive. And it seems to have worked for its core audience. And has effected how they see the character, despite the actual quality of the games. Like for example his sonic 06 version being a really popular version of that character, and that exists in the trashfire that is sonic 06.

 

Also there were probably no hints because sonic isn't a super lore rich planned out thing, they were winging it. But that said,IIRC there are mention of " monstrous blacks " and his concept art, gets into pretty alien territory as well.

You can not like shadow, that's your buisness. But people actually like shadow because they nurtured and evolved his character, you don't have complaints about shadow being dumb or out of character anymore outside of exceptions like boom, because they gradually evolved his character. And that should have happened with knuckles.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't really the decisiveness means they didn't do it well

That is exactly what it means, otherwise it wouldn’t be a issue because it would actually be done well that people accept it without problems and wouldn’t have people spouting that typical cliche of “Shadow should have stayed dead” that they’ve done for more than a decade.

The reason this is the case right now is precisely because it wasn’t  done well.

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

That is exactly what it means, otherwise it wouldn’t be a issue because it was actually done well that people accept it without problems.

 

... There are plenty of things in media that are divisive or have divisve elements that are extremely successful? And arguably most popular things, and arguably the more popular a thing is , the more divisive it becomes. And its hard to find anything that is actually liked by everyone?

Not to be rude, but like... did you like emerge from a rock?

Because holyshit

Like Venom, the movie venom that is literally the a successful divisive thing.

....What?

Smash bros rosters are divisive, that's probably gonna sell a whole bunch

... Like what .... WHAT?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

... There are plenty of things in media that are divisive or have divisve elements that are extremely successful?

Not in the way this Franchise has handled things. It doesn’t take much to realize that given how much things have faltered.

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Not to be rude, but like... did you like emerge from a rock?

Go patronize someone else with this nonsense, because I’m not continuing this any further with that mess.

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Not in the way this Franchise has handled things. It doesn’t take much to realize that given how much things have faltered.

That's neat? That's a larger statement on the franchise? But i'm not talking about that

I'm talking about shadow, and shadow... still the most popular character. And a lot of people don't just think of him in his sonic adventure 2 version, which means that the change was successful, its just that some people weren't fond of it.

So yeah

 

Just now, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Go patronize someone else with this nonsense.

I'm not the one who said the thing disproved by everything anyone has liked in the history of humans having the capability of liking something.