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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

True

Well, Cream is generally more of a support role in most of her appearances, so the ones that don't rely [heavily] on that type of thing generally just have her hanging out with the other characters.

So I guess you could say she could fall into that, providing backup, wanting to help people, and in a few things, simply wanting to go explore once in a while.

Yeah but that doesn't really provide her with anything though. Any character could provide back-up or generally act as a support character, like I said. The thing they have over Cream is that they all generally have something to latch onto that would make it fairly easy to have them as a main character in their own stories too. Why use Cream when you could use anyone else in that case?

They need to figure something out for her. I suppose the fact that she's only good for a support role would be fine on its own in a series that had way less characters than this one does... but this series has a lot of characters. If she's gonna hang, she's gonna need something.

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13 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

In the two examples for Archie CSS cited, Shadow is a supporting player in both cases. He still does something, but he is not the focus of those arcs. His main contribution in "Treasure Team Tango" is telling Rouge to give the Sol Emerald back to Blaze (the star of that arc) at the very end. Knuckles is the star of "Shattered," and most of what Shadow does is either call Knuckles an idiot or get to stay back and fight Naugus while Knuckles and Amy go save Angel Island. Like, did we read two different comic books here?

OH That's what they meant buy shattered. That's my mistake, I thought they were talking about like, the whole uh... unleashed thing. I commented on that above, and how I feel on that.

 

13 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Shadow isn't any more or less important than any other supporting character at this stage of the franchise. The only thing that makes him stand out from the rest of the cast is a slightly more developed (if convoluted) backstory and character arc, but even then, Sega closed the book on that. Just like they did with Knuckles being the guardian of the most powerful artifact in the world and reduced him to dumb hanger on that doesn't even do the job anymore.  I'm not saying he can't have bigger roles (and I think this comic will give him more stuff to do later on, year one was clearly about establishing the ensemble), but he I'm not seeing any negative effect if he does just show up without being the focus.

I'm saying that I feel like they could have told a better story with a smaller cast because I don't feel like... they established much, a lot of things were kind of rushed, and maybe other characters could have been focused on. Whether you feel shadow is more or less important at this point, is ... irrelevant to me? Not to be rude, my whole point is that " Hey this character is problably gonna get shine... a lot of it people like him, maybe save him for something else I don't need you waving " remember shadow " infront of me all the time. Focus on a smaller cast a and tell a better story." the only reason I focus on shadow because... well I like him, but two he's sort of the king of these problems. Nothing he does contributes to anything, even in the issue about him which you could just throw the fuck away, and even now... I dunno I feel like any number of things could have caused metal sonic to transform. I would have rather gotten a Sonic and Knuckles throw back fight with Metal sonic for a while than " SHADOW"S HERE LOOK AT HOW COOL HEIS, HE"S GONE " . Not only that , paired down some of the others so that the supporting story had fewer people doing very important things, and you could go into them and their own adventures.

 

If you don't see any negative effects, Sure cool do you. I think the story's not that great and the primary reason is too many characters and too much real estate. Its not as bad as world's unite or anything. But its bad enough to which I feel like the quality of the book actively takes a hit for it. And kind of a big on.

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33 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah but that doesn't really provide her with anything though.  The thing they have over Cream is that they all generally have something to latch onto that would make it fairly easy to have them as a main character in their own stories too. Why use Cream when you could use anyone else in that case?

They need to figure something out for her. If she's gonna hang, she's gonna need something.

For some reason, I'm having a hard time finding a prompt here--what is it you're referencing here?

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23 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm saying that I feel like they could have told a better story with a smaller cast because I don't feel like... they established much, a lot of things were kind of rushed, and maybe other characters could have been focused on. Whether you feel shadow is more or less important at this point, is ... irrelevant to me? Not to be rude, my whole point is that " Hey this character is problably gonna get shine... a lot of it people like him, maybe save him for something else I don't need you waving " remember shadow " infront of me all the time.

I mean, I agree that you can do more with less, because I haven't been a fan of the book's first year because it was just one character of the day after another for eight issues and not really getting to the point (I've already argued that half of those issues could have been cut or spliced together to quicken the pace and I still feel that way). But your entire argument is that Shadow is just too big of a character to relegate to a smaller role once in a while, and that's not true just looking at what the franchise is nowadays. You're not obligated to like what they did with Shadow here, but I don't think they did wrong by him (certainly could have been a lot worse). It's not like this reflects all they'll ever do with him or any other supporting character.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm not referencing anything. 

If she's going to stick around, she needs something to her character. 

That's it.

Okay--what is something? Examples for the other characters from your take would be nice.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Okay--what is something? Examples for the other characters from your take would be nice.

...?

She needs a point of development to work off of, something that motivates her to do something, or an occupation. Do you just want me to list off all the characters and say what motivates them or what personal occupation they have? 

I'm actually not sure what it is you're confused about. I'm sorry. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

...?

She needs a point of development to work off of, something that motivates her to do something, or an occupation. 

I'm actually not sure what it is you're confused about. I'm sorry. 

Okay, motivation was what I was hovering around, but given your way of phrasing things sometimes(not here, though), I couldn't help but wonder if there was more to it than that.

9 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Do you just want me to list off all the characters and say what motivates them or what personal occupation they have? 

Eeh, it could've been helpful in knowing where this was coming from personally on top of comparing with other characters, but that's no longer necessary.

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4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

...?

She needs a point of development to work off of, something that motivates her to do something, or an occupation. Do you just want me to list off all the characters and say what motivates them or what personal occupation they have? 

I'm actually not sure what it is you're confused about. I'm sorry. 

I know I'm going to get shit for this but I kinda agree. 

I was shocked so many people didn't like how Ian was using Cream in Archie when honestly her role seemed pretty fitting for a helpful but otherwise non-combatant character. I mean she's cute but I never really thought Cream needed a super active role. 

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It would’ve been nice to see Cream in an active role, but honestly, I thought she was fine in Archie.

I can name several things she’s done compared to her appearance in the games or even Sonic X, even minor things that made her stand out by comparison.

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51 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I know I'm going to get shit for this but I kinda agree. 

I was shocked so many people didn't like how Ian was using Cream in Archie when honestly her role seemed pretty fitting for a helpful but otherwise non-combatant character. I mean she's cute but I never really thought Cream needed a super active role. 

Yeah, funny how outside of Battle apparently, it feels like Cream gets better focus in other medias despite not being openly touted as a major character half the time. 

Then again, I did just say she functions better from a character interaction standpoint compared to the more action-oriented nature that most of the other characters possess.

 

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I mean I never expected to see her start throwing punches herself.

I was only disappointed Cheese never got a chance to develop into the badass unstoppable killing machine he's supposed to be. I need to see his origin story. IDW & SEGA please give us a mini-series about Cheese's years of Batman-tier training.

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15 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I mean I never expected to see her start throwing punches herself.

Errr, well there's Battle apparently....

15 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I was only disappointed Cheese never got a chance to develop into the badass unstoppable killing machine he's supposed to be. I need to see his origin story. IDW & SEGA please give us a mini-series about Cheese's years of Batman-tier training.

Ch'yeah. :lol: 

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1 minute ago, Celestia said:

From what I recall most if not all of her attacks were Cheese, lol. XP

Hey at least she has a special attack in Sega Heroes. More than Tails who despite being a Legendary Rank has only support moves for everything he does.

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11 minutes ago, Celestia said:

From what I recall most (if not all?) of her attacks were Cheese, lol. XP

Oh.

I mean, I was referring to how her story starts, but okay.

9 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Hey at least she has a special attack in Sega Heroes. More than Tails who despite being a Legendary Rank has only support moves for everything he does.

Really now? That's....

What is it?

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9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Oh.

I mean, I was referring to how her story starts, but okay.

Really now? That's....

What is it?

She gets the regular chao attack as a default. A spin attack special. And a super Chao charge for attacks. So she gets 3 offensive moves.

Tails gets a default spin attack. But every single one of his specials are support moves. So yes. Cream is a more offensive style character in Sega Heroes than Tails is.

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2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

She gets the regular chao attack as a default. A spin attack special. And a super Chao charge for attacks. So she gets 3 offensive moves.

Tails gets a default spin attack. But every single one of his specials are support moves. So yes. Cream is a more offensive style character in Sega Heroes than Tails is.

Huh.

I suppose it makes some degree of sense if they're working with the Chao Tag vs Gadgetry themes, but the odds are still overly slanted. You'd think he'd also have a Tail whip or that Tornado move, for instance.

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Huh.

I suppose it makes some degree of sense if they're working with the Chao Tag vs Gadgetry themes, but the odds are still overly slanted. You'd think he'd also have a Tail whip or that Tornado move, for instance.

Never underestimate the power of the #FuckTails movement. There's an agenda I say. There's clearly some political agenda!
tenor.gif

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9 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

Never underestimate the power of the #FuckTails movement. There's an agenda I say. There's clearly some political agenda!
tenor.gif

I don't know while it is a little weird how he reacted to Chaos in Forces I think it's also important to remember canonically he didn't ever fight Chaos alone. He had Sonic and Knuckles backing him up and dealing with a Water God is a little bigger than just yet another Eggmobile variant.

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2 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I don't know while it is a little weird how he reacted to Chaos in Forces I think it's also important to remember canonically he didn't ever fight Chaos alone. He had Sonic and Knuckles backing him up and dealing with a Water God is a little bigger than just yet another Eggmobile variant.

Chaos 0 is nothing special. Heck Chaos isn't really all that special until he is Perfect Chaos. Not to mention he's been in far more immediate stressful situations than that. But there really isn't a need to go over this a bunch as it's beaten like a dead horse this point.

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1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

I don't know while it is a little weird how he reacted to Chaos in Forces I think it's also important to remember canonically he didn't ever fight Chaos alone. He had Sonic and Knuckles backing him up and dealing with a Water God is a little bigger than just yet another Eggmobile variant.

Ah, so Cream in Sonic Advance 2, eh?

11 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

Never underestimate the power of the #FuckTails movement. There's an agenda I say. There's clearly some political agenda!
tenor.gif

Uh, in the sense that they were seriously backpedaling after the way he was handled in Lost World, maybe?

1 hour ago, dbzfan7 said:

Chaos 0 is nothing special. Heck Chaos isn't really all that special until he is Perfect Chaos. Not to mention he's been in far more immediate stressful situations than that. But there really isn't a need to go over this a bunch as it's beaten like a dead horse this point.

Eh, personally I wouldn't have minded it if he literally didn't shout "Sonic! Help me!" while presenting himself.

Just like in Lost World, the idea isn't bad--they just went too hard with the execution.

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11 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Uh, in the sense that they were seriously backpedaling after the way he was handled in Lost World, maybe?

Eh, personally I wouldn't have minded it if he literally didn't shout "Sonic! Help me!" while presenting himself.

Just like in Lost World, the idea isn't bad--they just went too hard with the execution.

The movement dictates he has to suck somehow XD. But people were annoyed. So be less annoying but still suck. Thus is the movement. *Nods*

I'd say it's bad no matter what honestly. Hell if I had to guess, Amy wasn't used because PC culture would destroy sega if they tried that XD

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2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

The movement dictates he has to suck somehow XD. But people were annoyed. So be less annoying but still suck. Thus is the movement. *Nods*

Hmph.

3 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

 

I'd say it's bad no matter what honestly. Hell if I had to guess, Amy wasn't used because PC culture would destroy sega if they tried that XD

She also has that now relatively legit hammer, though.

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6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Hmph.

She also has that now relatively legit hammer, though.

The hammer that's useless in pretty much everything outside of a gag 9 times out of 10 XD. But seriously I bet that probably is why they didn't use Amy. Because people would cry out fowl and what not in gender politics. Probably why when in Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal when she got kidnapped, they did it in a way where she comes off looking like a heroic female badass who got too cocky. Didn't take Lyric seriously til she made a mistake.

Tails is just made hyper incompetent by comparison to his past experiences. To such an embarrassing degree. I hate talking about this as there really is no one I see more battered and shat on in the series as of late. Everyone else I can find something redeemable except for him.

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