Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

Just because something has an ideology as its basis, doesn't mean it's not allowed to play around with it. I think you're looking at it too rigidly and literally.

Sonic breaks open evil robots to free the animals and flowers inside (still to this very day). Sonic's most enduring rival has been his robotic doppelganger. You argued earlier that CD had Nature and Technology working together in harmony, in its Good Futures. But, that's exactly my point. Those two things were juxtaposed against one another for the whole game. They were compared and contrasted. Finding the balance between them was what needed to happen.

I never said you couldn't play with an ideology, but rather that said theme of nature and technology isn't a one-sided, black and white case of it being "animals and nature=good" and "man and technology=bad" as you made a point over--that's being too rigid and literal, especially given that there have been many things that go against that strict interpretation even during the earliest Sonic games. 

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SatAM is objectively built off of the idea of Nature vs. Technology. There's no room for interpretation on that one. The creators have gone on record as saying that that idea was their basis (because that's what SEGA gave them to work with, at the time).
 

What record? Does it strictly say along the lines of "man made technology =bad" or is it more flexibile and critical of its misuse and abuse as I'm talking about, as those are two different things.

Because really, if it was a strict "technology is bad" theme, why is Sally using a supercomputer for good reasons? Heck, one of the animal characters, Uncle Chuck, was the actual inventor the Roboticizer rather than Eggman, and no doubt he had no intention of it being used to enslave people as Eggman used it for. And I'm pretty sure Mobotropolis also used technology benevolently in the backstory before Robotnik took over.

So basically, the common theme isn't "man-made technology is bad," but rather it's misuse is. You can't put technology as a whole as bad and then have the good guys use it for their own goal of saving the world, as that's hypocritical to that message.

[Sonictrainer]

3 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

I'm speaking only in terms of this new IDW comic, guys (that's the discussion topic, remember?). And, as I've said before, I think these comics should be their own thing, rather than being doggedly loyal to the games.

...so in the brand new IDW Comic series, if Eggman is portrayed as the only human and

14 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

he's a technology-abusing human who's invading Sonic's natural world,

wouldn't that also create the misconception that all humans in Sonic's world are evil?

 

Also, they already did this in Archie with the Mobian and Overlander Civil Wars.

[Chaos Control Freak]

25 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I never said you couldn't play with an ideology, but rather that said theme of nature and technology isn't a one-sided, black and white case of it being "animals and nature=good" and "man and technology=bad" as you made a point over--that's being too rigid and literal, especially given that there have been many things that go against that strict interpretation even during the earliest Sonic games. 

What record? Does it strictly say along the lines of "man made technology =bad" or is it more flexibile and critical of its misuse and abuse as I'm talking about, as those are two different things.

Because really, if it was a strict "technology is bad" theme, why is Sally using a supercomputer for good reasons? Heck, one of the animal characters, Uncle Chuck, was the actual inventor the Roboticizer rather than Eggman, and no doubt he had no intention of it being used to enslave people as Eggman used it for. And I'm pretty sure Mobotropolis also used technology benevolently in the backstory before Robotnik took over.

So basically, the common theme isn't "man-made technology is bad," but rather it's misuse is. You can't put technology as a whole as bad and then have the good guys use it for their own goal of saving the world, as that's hypocritical to that message.

I think you're basically just arguing semantics, at this point. I think you essentially get what I'm trying to say. Over-industrialization and the abuse of technology is a very bad thing, in Sonic's world, and is the groundwork for what shaped the franchise, from the beginning.

I think if the IDW comics zeroed in on that concept (something that the games have really strayed away from) and really expanded upon it, I think it would make for a really cool story and world. Imagine the basic premise of the original SatAM cartoon, but waaaay more faithful to SegaSonic, both visually and tonally, and that's basically what I'd like to see. (So, pretty much, just Sonic Forces. )

If you don't agree with my take on it, then that's totally fine, though.

21 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

...so in the brand new IDW Comic series, if Eggman is portrayed as the only human and

he's a technology-abusing human who's invading Sonic's natural world,

wouldn't that also create the misconception that all humans in Sonic's world are evil?

Also, they already did this in Archie with the Mobian and Overlander Civil Wars.

Sure, why not!

I think Eggman causing the people of Sonic's world to severely mistrust humans would make for a neat story, later down the line, where another not-evil human shows up, and everyone's opinion is divided on them.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

I think you're basically just arguing semantics, at this point. I think you essentially get what I'm trying to say. Over-industrialization and the abuse of technology is a very bad thing, in Sonic's world, and is the groundwork for what shaped the franchise, from the beginning.

Well, you did say earlier that the theme between the two was "natural animals and nature =good" and "man-made machines=bad." That says something entirely different from over-industrialization and abuse of technology.

Now if what you were trying to say was along the lines of what I meant, then I guess we were on the same page. But that's not what you were clear on from the beginning.

 

[Chaos Control Freak]

16 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Well, you did say earlier that the theme between the two was "natural animals and nature =good" and "man-made machines=bad." That says something entirely different from over-industrialization and abuse of technology.

Now if what you were trying to say was along the lines of what I meant, then I guess we were on the same page. But that's not what you were clear on from the beginning.

 

Yeah, my wording was probably just a bit oversimplified. That's my bad.

Pretty sure we're on the same page.

[Chaos Control Freak]

All my rambling about what I want from the new Sonic comic has actually got me thinking...

If the IDW comics end up starting over from scratch, what would  you guys want to see from them?

[havikinazuma]

On 9/8/2017 at 8:51 PM, Chaos Control Freak said:

I'm cool with the planet being called "Mobius", but honestly, I've always hated the concept of Sonic's world being an alternate Earth, in the far future, that's co-inhabited by humans.

I personally think Humans should be sparse/next-to-non-existent in Sonic's world. Doing so really makes Eggman a unique anomaly, and I think really strengthens the whole "Nature vs. Technology" vibes from the franchise's roots.

The games already established the Planet as Earth. Modern day Earth even. There's nothing wrong with the Planet having humans and Anthropomorphic animals, as another series comes to mind (Dragon Ball).

Imo, concepts like Mobius and Freedom Fighters, don't correlate with established updated Sonic canon, their storyline would have to impose on a Earth full of humans. Roboticizing isn't the same either. Eggman these days doesn't even rely on badniks anymore. He creates full metallic robots. What would be the point of Castle of acorn, mobo/robotropolis, or Knothole. 

Mobius isn't Sonic's home world's name. It was created like the rest to fill in story for Sonic, the games provided little

[Heckboy]

I'd just like the comic to be about a wandering Sonic going on adventures, visiting new places, meeting people, battling Eggman and other villains, with a rotating cast of secondary characters. That's all.

Then hopefully there'll also be a Sonic Universe-type comic running alongside the main one to focus on what the other characters are up to. Or maybe, with Mania's success, an ongoing Classic Sonic comic.

[Shadowlax]

18 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

...so in the brand new IDW Comic series, if Eggman is portrayed as the only human and

wouldn't that also create the misconception that all humans in Sonic's world are evil?

Nah, because as long as shadow exists it wouldn't be true. 

Wouldn't mind a mobian exclusive gun branch ran by animal folk though

[Multikaris]

For IDW, I'm curious as to whether they can use the Robotnik name or if it has been officially discarded. And I also want to see them try to make the Deadly Six decent characters.

[Chaos Control Freak]

5 hours ago, havikinazuma said:

The games already established the Planet as Earth. Modern day Earth even. There's nothing wrong with the Planet having humans and Anthropomorphic animals, as another series comes to mind (Dragon Ball).

Imo, concepts like Mobius and Freedom Fighters, don't correlate with established updated Sonic canon, their storyline would have to impose on a Earth full of humans. Roboticizing isn't the same either. Eggman these days doesn't even rely on badniks anymore. He creates full metallic robots. What would be the point of Castle of acorn, mobo/robotropolis, or Knothole. 

Mobius isn't Sonic's home world's name. It was created like the rest to fill in story for Sonic, the games provided little

Well, like I said earlier, the games' continuity is spotty as hell. The Sonic Adventure games don't even feel like they're set in the same continuity as the Classic games, or the Hedgehog Engine games. Again, Classic Sonic isn't even from the same dimension as Modern Sonic anymore.

One of the few things I liked about Sonic X, is how it set Sonic's world and Earth apart.

And as I've already said, the IDW comics don't have to be just like the games. And I don't think they should be.

 

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Nah, because as long as shadow exists it wouldn't be true. 

Wouldn't mind a mobian exclusive gun branch ran by animal folk though

Shadow is in Sonic Boom. There's no Gerald or Maria in that series at all.

[BlueSky]

17 hours ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

All my rambling about what I want from the new Sonic comic has actually got me thinking...

If the IDW comics end up starting over from scratch, what would  you guys want to see from them?

Something that resembles a well-written plot and has something akin to well-developed characters. No 20+ pages just for "Let's make a joke and dissect it right afterwards" stuff or anything like that.

That and tons of other stuff I've said earlier, about some characters and all that jazz.

And that BD style tryout would be cool...

[Chaos Control Freak]

3 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

Something that resembles a well-written plot and has something akin to well-developed characters. No 20+ pages just for "Let's make a joke and dissect it right afterwards" stuff or anything like that.

That and tons of other stuff I've said earlier, about some characters and all that jazz.

And that BD style tryout would be cool...

BD style tryout?

[BlueSky]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

BD style tryout?

As in Bande Dessinée, pardon my French.  I usually use it when I'm referring to francophonic comics since it's literally comics in French.

You know, BD's have their unique style after all...

Some of them are pretty action-packed and humorous at the same time actually.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

One thing I didn't like about the Archie comics was that there was a lot of setup for a fight scene, but the actual payoff was over too quickly. BDs are about 50 pages, and would be great for epic final battles like Dark Gaia without dragging on for too long. 

[BlueSky]

9 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

One thing I didn't like about the Archie comics was that there was a lot of setup for a fight scene, but the actual payoff was over too quickly. BDs are about 50 pages, and would be great for epic final battles like Dark Gaia without dragging on for too long. 

Yeah, the format they're made is actually pretty interesting. As far as I know, the thing with some older ones at least was they were published first in other papers, "divided" in parts, usually smaller than a page would be. In these cases, the albums are actually made of entire story arcs or something, they're the complete forms of stories. That's the finesse of these things, they could be put in the close end of the book in 1/2 or something sized parts of the page per issue and lately they could be printed as a whole. And I think one can see the "evidence" in some of the stories made on this format when they look closely at some panels on the album pages; there're consistently some codes or signatures or something popping up in "last" panels of some rows all while the story's still ongoing, at least that's the reason if I recall it right, you should take this with a pinch of salt though.

Or they could be made them in only album format if they so desire. But yeah, the layout and buildup is different from the stereotypical "usual" US comics as far as I know. The story flows more balanced since it's not in such a hurry, probably because they're not as canonically dependant about their story structure as story-ongoing US books are.

That could fit for Sonic actually quite well, being a game character with limited-length game stories behind him and all... it would maybe fit for the character format well enough.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Chaos Control Freak said:

 

Shadow is in Sonic Boom. There's no Gerald or Maria in that series at all.

Sonic boom is an  different entity with different canon. 

Its also widely regarded as a not great version of shadow. 

[Chaos Control Freak]

31 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sonic boom is an  different entity with different canon.

Which is exactly what I want the IDW comics to be, as well.

Except, ya know.... actually good.

[Osmium]

4 hours ago, Mister X said:

I'd just like the comic to be about a wandering Sonic going on adventures, visiting new places, meeting people, battling Eggman and other villains, with a rotating cast of secondary characters. That's all.

Me too. Why has a simple concept like this never been truly followed through for 25+ years now? (Talking about all Sonic media) 

[GentlemanX]

I'd like to see the IDW series begin with the status quo of the games following Sonic Lost World or Sonic Forces (depending on the plot of Forces, it'll be the most recent game but before it comes out it's hard to judge if enough will change that it'd be better to do an in-universe tie in or if they'll be able to start directly after it) and focus on Sonic going on episodic adventures meeting people or stoping some Eggman plot either by himself or with just Tails. That would be the main status quo with guest appearances by Knuckles, Amy, Chatoix, Shadow, etc. After the first ten or so issues, certain stories would be allowed to be multi-parters though for now this wouldn't be the norm. Our first major story would be issue twenty-five, big milestone stories are one aspect of Archie Sonic I hope they bring back. This would be the first possibility to do a multi-parter beyond two issues, though it doesn't have to be. Ideally, we wouldn't start introducing original characters until after the first milestone, with new additions being more stand alone characters rather than members of teams like Archie and Fleetway tended to do. If any original characters were popular enough, then bring them on as reoccurring characters like the extended Sega cast. Larger story arcs wouldn't be started until after the second milestone issue and wouldn't last more than a year with longer periods of one offs in between (unless the ongoing narrative stories prove more popular in which case they transition toward that the way Archie and Fleetway did).

Beyond the main comic, I'd like to see as many spin-offs as IDW was able to produce. Re-starting Sonic Universe would be my first priority, but if they weren't confident enough to do that I'd do a four to six issue Shadow mini-series. If that did well enough, try a four to six issue Tails or Knuckles mini-series. If those proved successful, I'd think re-launching Universe at that point would be logical, with other ongoings for the most popular characters if that proved to be profitable. A classic Sonic series (Megadrive is a bit of odd choice for the American market, so probably Sonic Genesis instead) would also make sense from a brand perspective. If Sonic Boom gets renewed for a third season, an ongoing of that may also be advantageous for the brand (I don't care much for Boom, but having another venue for that sub-brand should it continue makes sense). It'd also be cool to see bigger annuals depending on how much the main series took off. Finally, if I can be especially dreamy-eyed, I'd love to see a Sega All-Stars comic in the vein of Universe where every four to six issues we got stories focused on other Sega properties like Alex Kidd, Nights, Golden Axe etc. similar to Fleetway. These books would be set in a Sega multi-verse allowing for crossovers between properties. If any series got especially popular, it could be spun-off into its own ongoing series.

As a bonus, on the subject of the Freedom Fighters: I won't hide that I've always loved the characters so it's hard for me to sympathize for people that don't care for them and want them gone. Even for say the Boom or post-reboot Archie extended cast I didn't care for, I always believe if a character is popular enough and has they're fans it's nice to include them in a work like a comic that appeals to those niche groups. That said, I do believe it'd be detrimental to keep the Archie formula with the Freedom Fighters with Sonic all the time when that doesn't reflect the status quo of the games. There are two workable solutions I can think of for this situation though. The first, that I'm not as thrilled about, is if the Freedom Fighters team continues to function separately and Sonic and friends interact with them on an occasional basis. They'd sort of function like the Chaotix, a group of characters that work together, and I don't remember where I read it but someone suggested they'd essentially be police officers in Sonic's world (also, if we're doing the two worlds thing, I'd prefer Sonic's world be named Mobius. I don't like it being nameless and it's better than Sonic's World if Earth's not an option). The second, which I'd prefer, is if each character operated independent of one another and essentially was on the same level as say Knuckles, Silver, or Big. Occasional stories would see them team up with Sonic and Tails and under those circumstances they'd be known as the Freedom Fighters, with them splitting ways after the specific adventure was concluded.

[Blue Blood]

42 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Me too. Why has a simple concept like this never been truly followed through for 25+ years now? (Talking about all Sonic media) 

Are you guys saying that you don't want this to be a soap opera style outing about Sonic's love life and romantic escapades, with scenes of cartoon animals locking lips and the odd Holocaust quote?

Well I'll be dammed.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

Are you guys saying that you don't want this to be a soap opera style outing about Sonic's love life and romantic escapades, with scenes of cartoon animals locking lips and the odd Holocaust quote?

Well I'll be dammed.

That's an accurate point about Ken Penders' writing.

That's not an accurate point about the Archie comic as a whole when it's outdated by about 10 or 12 years.

[Blue Blood]

18 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

That's an accurate point about Ken Penders' writing.

That's not an accurate point about the Archie comic as a whole when it's outdated by about 10 or 12 years.

I mean, I never actually said that. At all. My point was just to agree with the guys saying that they wanted something simple and about adventure, rather than whatever the hell we saw in the past at some stage. They want a A comic that's true to Sonic.

Literally, I didn't even mention Archie at all...

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

I mean, I never actually said that. At all. My point was just to agree with the guys saying that they wanted something simple and about adventure, rather than whatever the hell we saw in the past at some stage. They want a A comic that's true to Sonic.

Literally, I didn't even mention Archie at all...

Fair enough, but what you said kind of implies that. Like for all of it's faults, Ian-Flynn era Archie, and especially Post!Reboot Archie was based around simple adventures. Freedom Fighters might've been present, but a lot of story arcs had the classic Adventure feeling Sonic was known for, especially stuff like Champions. When you say something like "we want this *insert outdated info*", it just feels like you're implying Archie as a whole is like that. Which if that wasn't the case, I apologise. 

[Blue Blood]

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Fair enough, but what you said kind of implies that. Like for all of it's faults, Ian-Flynn era Archie, and especially Post!Reboot Archie was based around simple adventures. Freedom Fighters might've been present, but a lot of story arcs had the classic Adventure feeling Sonic was known for, especially stuff like Champions. When you say something like "we want this *insert outdated info*", it just feels like you're implying Archie as a whole is like that. Which if that wasn't the case, I apologise. 

Definitely wasn't. I was implying that people didn't want any reversion to the shit that happened before.

I never read the Flynn-era stuff because getting into a comic that already has so many years of baggage (rotten baggage, even) is daunting. But you don't need to have read it to know what a significant improvement it was. The Archie comics ended when they were arguably at their best.