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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I wanna say that was IDW themselves, rather than Ian—but it could be that, because the new series is so much more in-line with the games, they have more freedom within the confines of that vision, whereas it was harder to try and take the Archie elements and fit them to that same mold.

Basically, I think they have more breathing room in how they approach things because everything has been aligned with SEGA’s vision since day one, rather than having to barter with them at every step. 

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I honestly think people are overthinking this. To be honest, I think it's Ian listening to his criticisms and then oversteering in an attempt to course correct. One of the common criticisms thrown to Ian during New252 is the fact he focused too hard on world-building, that the World Adventure arc went on for so long because he spent so long doing this. If I had to guess, Ian thought he would then just focus on action/game characters without realising that has it's own detrimental effect when you don't have a proper balance at play.

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Oh no, I agree—I Just was stating the best way I can rationalize the idea of IDW somehow having less restrictions than Archie did.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Is anyone other than Bleeding Cool reporting on this? Because I feel like this would be big news but they're all I see talking about it.

Is it really big news though? A 9% shareholder basically just submitted a plan which reads "we need a parent company like Netflix/Verizon to make a whole lotta investor money real fast"

Its not like the letter is screaming for a tear down or something. Just a more streamlined vision across operations to follow suit with what some other lesser comic companies have embraced in the middle of the comic market shudder.

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5 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

By Issue 14 of New252, we were up to Control, in which tons of the new canon had been shown off, including old and new characters. We also had the likes of Waves of Change which established a completely new species of the Sonic world, integrated them nicely, and used them to showcase ways for old abilities to be readded in, so no. Even by New252 standards, it had done tons more.

Okay, just making sure wires weren't getting crossed.

5 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

Judging by year 1, anyone has a preference for one of the artist? and anyone has one artist they woudnt mind not seeing return?

Adam Bryce Thomas seems to be the overall best received thus far.

4 hours ago, Noise Canceler CC14 said:

The thing with the New252 vs. Now is that Ian went so heavy into the world and lore-building as a way to make up for a long-established canon with years of history basically being overwritten thanks to Penders. He's probably taken a break from that in the IDW book to just tell some fun stories without needing to elaborate on how everything relates to everything else with new things coming out the woodwork like what happened with almost every issue of the Archie world tour.

I have no doubt that more world-building IS coming (probably when we start getting into some side stuff like the Tangle/Whisper mini), but I wouldn't be surprised if he's just recharging for now after all he created for the latter Archie issues was basically yanked out from under him.

That'd be fair.

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3 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Is anyone other than Bleeding Cool reporting on this? Because I feel like this would be big news but they're all I see talking about it.

Not sure what Madman is getting at, but the letter is more about ADW Capital Partners L.P., who owns 9% of the company's stock, wanting the board to find a media company like Hulu and Netflix to sell their own IPs to, in order to maximise profits, since IDW's new CEO has had success at selling smaller companies to larger companies in the past. This is because ADW believes a content war between streaming platforms is beginning and they want a piece of the pie. So, basically, any licensed book by IDW is outside of this sort of deal, while books like 30 Days of Nights, Locke and Key, Kill Shakespeare and Wynonna Earp would be up for grabs. So, it's just doomsaying and worrying over nothing for now.

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55 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I honestly think people are overthinking this. To be honest, I think it's Ian listening to his criticisms and then oversteering in an attempt to course correct. One of the common criticisms thrown to Ian during New252 is the fact he focused too hard on world-building, that the World Adventure arc went on for so long because he spent so long doing this. If I had to guess, Ian thought he would then just focus on action/game characters without realising that has it's own detrimental effect when you don't have a proper balance at play.

Ah, so kinda like Forces?

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3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I need a new issue to come out today or something. Just something to wash the taste of the news we just go about that other thing that's happening away. 

When the Metal Virus spreads, is this going to turn into the Robot Zombie Apocalypse? That seems to be the one thing that makes it more potent than regular roboticization. If it acts like a virus than touching someone can spread it around. Eggman needs to be careful. Sooner or later, a fishing rod might not be enough to stave that off.

Sticks was right... she just predicted it for a different universe. XD

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1 minute ago, Skull Leader said:

Sticks was right... she just predicted it for a different universe. XD

Oh, speaking of which, one of the episodes I listened to earlier had Mr. Flynn assure that when he uses Sticks, it'll be with SEGA's permission.

That's not really news or anything significant, it just came to mind.

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It's kinda funny. For years, people wanted an all-games, all-the-time comic, and now when it finally happens... it's boring (in some people's opinions.. including mine). I'm sure that isn't entirely what's limiting it though, the world will become bigger eventually. At least it seems the majority enjoy it, so it'll hopefully last long enough to reach that point.

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I'm certainly not going to jump on anybody who isn't enjoying it at the moment. I recognize that there's a clear and obvious pattern going on here despite the fact that it is flowing a bit more like a story at the moment. Despite enjoying the build-up last year, all of it was basically just a year long introduction and we're just now being given a proper set-up for the first major conflict going forward. Not to mention the fact that I didn't enjoy the climax of that last arc at all.

I do feel like it'll surely come into its own of course. The more concepts and ideas he introduces the more it'll burst at the seams with content and things to focus on. It's interesting to see how Ian's handling his first time having to literally begin a new Sonic book and not just shuffle some concepts and ideas around like he did when the Genesis wave thing happened. Right now, your mileage may vary and that's perfectly fine.

I'm still enjoying it but I can't hold it against anyone who isn't because I realize it's not at its full potential just yet and we're on the second year. The initial reactions to the first issue seem more appropriate for what's going on now. 

Hopefully, we'll get a Sonic Universe sort of thing or something that'll maybe speed this whole thing up a bit. One issue a month stands a chance at taking its toll on me too.

However, all this said, I doubt it'll ever make me say that I'm better off sticking with the games. Fuck that noise. If Forces is the kind of shit they churn out when the characters are "involved" (massive air quotes) than this is still preferable. 

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The comic is moving too fast.

The comic is not moving fast enough.

It could be a bit slower with the interesting plot points.

It could be a lot faster with its world-building.

And through everything, it should break the character formula that it already seemed to have broken when it had everyone was gearing to face Metal Hazardous Madness Overlord.

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I will say that I still prefer this to Archie, but, that's probably because of my disdain for a lot of those elements and the specific set-up it had. Despite that, I still proudly own like 10 binders full of the Archie comics. The fact that they're discontinued actually endears me more to them ironically. I can look back on them as their own thing a lot easier than before because I have a comic that follows more of what I wished a Sonic comic to be.

It's weird. I can't say I hold any overall hatred for any of this stuff. Maybe I'm just really grateful to have them at all considering what the games are doing.

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Saying that they are better than the games is okay but still not much. I expect more, but I sure don't want them to focus on world building, we all have different opinions on what we want for the comic. I am glad the majority is enjoying it like me, but there is obviously room for improvement. Just try new things, new narrative techniques and plots, personal stories, as I already said.

Then there might be mandates and limitations that we don't know about, Ian is working around them but I'm not sure he can write personal stories with new material that goes against what's established for Modern Sonic, so don't expect stuff like Metal Sonic redeemed, Amy falling in love with Shadow... as examples, a major death (it's still the beginning of the book anyway), Flynn has to work with what he can. The plot about Sonic being infected could turn as an interesting problem for him, that could be the personal conflict we are asking for.

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Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

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1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

Lets be clear here

This is still way better than the archie comic pre-reboot. As a fan that started with adventure, it sucked that when you found out there was a sonic comic, it was about no one you cared about, nothing interesting, the game characters were god awful interpretations of themselves. And this is on top of, them actively ignoring a lot of adventure era characters and things had to be forced multiple times to incorporate them.

This comic as boring as it may be sometime, is still several times fucking better than that. But its still boring and that can and needs to be spoken about

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I don't think anyone thinks the book sucks. It nails characters, but it's plots are meh and recycled. Possibly the polar opposite of the games. It's just for a comic that is paid for or subscribed to, you really can do better elsewhere. There's other comic books released on the same day which can do what this series does, and plenty better on average. I could pay for a relatively average comic, or I can use that money on a better comic instead.

It's kinda the definition of a basic worker checking all the boxes you want checked, and then heading home after a work day. I mean they did nothing awful, nothing spectacular, they just kinda came in, did their job and left. They exist, sometimes we remember or completely forget about them, and then the day ends and the cycle repeats. Easy to get into comics, not much to take away from. A fine light read for those who like Sonic, but those who want or expect something more probably won't get it here.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

Say what you like about pre-reboot Archie, but at least it had its own identity. IDW just feels like an advertisement for the games.

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7 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

If anything, it's more for kids, sure there are things for the fans to follow, but there is a reason this is a more casual approach. I think we should ask them what they think, more than fans.

Sonic is always "more for kids". 

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

Can we please stop using this as an example of a point? It's nearly 20 years out of date at this point and no one is asking for anything resembling that. It's one thing to say you'd take boring adventures over the mid-2000s Archie shit, but the problem is - Archie Sonic also pulled out of that rut over ten years ago, and have been delivering quality content that balances world-building with adventures and action. Post-Reboot even more so, especially when we had arcs like Champions that balanced giving the world a media presence in Breezie, while still keeping the Shattered World arc running with everyone battling for a Chaos Emerald.

6 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

If anything, it's more for kids, sure there are things for the fans to follow, but there is a reason this is a more casual approach. I think we should ask them what they think, more than fans.

This should never be an excuse for formulaic story-telling. Just because a book is for kids doesn't mean you can't still raise your story arcs to be a bit more unpredictable, and run general writing concepts such as build-up and world-building adding to a better payoff.

What frustrates me most with this book is we've done this song and dance before with Ian. It was the exact same thing with Archie Mega Man - the first three arcs were generally criticised for running through Mega Man 1, Powered Up and 2 extremely quickly without taking time to build the world up, and establish things, leading to poor pacing. Similarly, Mega Man also had the sole basis of being based off the games, and what kept it going in it's early days is again - the characters. The likes of Wily especially showed extremely strong promise in the early days.

But the difference is that Ian realised his mistakes and began building the world up as early as Issue 13 which kicked off the original Spiritus Ex Machina arc, focusing on a few new original characters, introducing characters from later games that fit in the world, and establishing bigger threats than just Wily himself. He started adding more world-building and doing more original things that worked alongside the games, especially by the time we got to Mega Man 3 which was done entirely through the perspective of the Robot Masters. But most importantly - by the end - Archie Mega Man was garnering tons of praise for being a kids comic that didn't talk down to them, tackled some heavy subjects, and still kept things light and fun.

Post-Reboot Archie did the same thing, especially with arcs like Champions and Control. 

My point is - I'm disappointed because it's following an even weaker pattern of what Mega Man did, and it's showing massively now. There's been no time to stop and breath, bar one issue and even that issue was dealing with immediate consequences of Metal Sonic's attack.

It's one thing after another after another, and it shows because it's going in a formula now as well. The locales change, but it keeps remaining the same thing for a lot of the issues, Sonic and Resistance teammate investigates situation, they beat up robots, or bad guy of the week, bad guy of the week under-estimates them, Sonic cracks wise about being the fastest thing alive, reference to the next big arc, repeat. There's no memorable characters or areas in this world, bar Tangle and Whisper, and it isn't helped that both of them are associated with random villages instead of actual memorable areas of the world, like Lupe was in Archie Sonic for example.

It feels like it's afraid to take risks, it's afraid to just stop for a bit and show the world at large, it doesn't want to take a moment to try set up bigger stakes, bar a bunch of nameless Mobians being turned into robots. It's one thing when we had this situation in Archie Sonic, in which we had all of these different areas with different locales - usually with a hero, or group closely related to them and not have them be only the main cast, but rather those who are directly tied to their own stories, people, and areas - and forced to experience things on the ground floor whenever Eggman finally pulled off his latest and greatest thing. Now the only time we ever really get to experience that impact is from the main cast, and that's just kind of boring because we already know they all have to get out of it without a scratch anyways.

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