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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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The comic is moving too fast.

The comic is not moving fast enough.

It could be a bit slower with the interesting plot points.

It could be a lot faster with its world-building.

And through everything, it should break the character formula that it already seemed to have broken when it had everyone was gearing to face Metal Hazardous Madness Overlord.

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I will say that I still prefer this to Archie, but, that's probably because of my disdain for a lot of those elements and the specific set-up it had. Despite that, I still proudly own like 10 binders full of the Archie comics. The fact that they're discontinued actually endears me more to them ironically. I can look back on them as their own thing a lot easier than before because I have a comic that follows more of what I wished a Sonic comic to be.

It's weird. I can't say I hold any overall hatred for any of this stuff. Maybe I'm just really grateful to have them at all considering what the games are doing.

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Saying that they are better than the games is okay but still not much. I expect more, but I sure don't want them to focus on world building, we all have different opinions on what we want for the comic. I am glad the majority is enjoying it like me, but there is obviously room for improvement. Just try new things, new narrative techniques and plots, personal stories, as I already said.

Then there might be mandates and limitations that we don't know about, Ian is working around them but I'm not sure he can write personal stories with new material that goes against what's established for Modern Sonic, so don't expect stuff like Metal Sonic redeemed, Amy falling in love with Shadow... as examples, a major death (it's still the beginning of the book anyway), Flynn has to work with what he can. The plot about Sonic being infected could turn as an interesting problem for him, that could be the personal conflict we are asking for.

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Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

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1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

Lets be clear here

This is still way better than the archie comic pre-reboot. As a fan that started with adventure, it sucked that when you found out there was a sonic comic, it was about no one you cared about, nothing interesting, the game characters were god awful interpretations of themselves. And this is on top of, them actively ignoring a lot of adventure era characters and things had to be forced multiple times to incorporate them.

This comic as boring as it may be sometime, is still several times fucking better than that. But its still boring and that can and needs to be spoken about

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I don't think anyone thinks the book sucks. It nails characters, but it's plots are meh and recycled. Possibly the polar opposite of the games. It's just for a comic that is paid for or subscribed to, you really can do better elsewhere. There's other comic books released on the same day which can do what this series does, and plenty better on average. I could pay for a relatively average comic, or I can use that money on a better comic instead.

It's kinda the definition of a basic worker checking all the boxes you want checked, and then heading home after a work day. I mean they did nothing awful, nothing spectacular, they just kinda came in, did their job and left. They exist, sometimes we remember or completely forget about them, and then the day ends and the cycle repeats. Easy to get into comics, not much to take away from. A fine light read for those who like Sonic, but those who want or expect something more probably won't get it here.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

Say what you like about pre-reboot Archie, but at least it had its own identity. IDW just feels like an advertisement for the games.

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7 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

If anything, it's more for kids, sure there are things for the fans to follow, but there is a reason this is a more casual approach. I think we should ask them what they think, more than fans.

Sonic is always "more for kids". 

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

Can we please stop using this as an example of a point? It's nearly 20 years out of date at this point and no one is asking for anything resembling that. It's one thing to say you'd take boring adventures over the mid-2000s Archie shit, but the problem is - Archie Sonic also pulled out of that rut over ten years ago, and have been delivering quality content that balances world-building with adventures and action. Post-Reboot even more so, especially when we had arcs like Champions that balanced giving the world a media presence in Breezie, while still keeping the Shattered World arc running with everyone battling for a Chaos Emerald.

6 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

If anything, it's more for kids, sure there are things for the fans to follow, but there is a reason this is a more casual approach. I think we should ask them what they think, more than fans.

This should never be an excuse for formulaic story-telling. Just because a book is for kids doesn't mean you can't still raise your story arcs to be a bit more unpredictable, and run general writing concepts such as build-up and world-building adding to a better payoff.

What frustrates me most with this book is we've done this song and dance before with Ian. It was the exact same thing with Archie Mega Man - the first three arcs were generally criticised for running through Mega Man 1, Powered Up and 2 extremely quickly without taking time to build the world up, and establish things, leading to poor pacing. Similarly, Mega Man also had the sole basis of being based off the games, and what kept it going in it's early days is again - the characters. The likes of Wily especially showed extremely strong promise in the early days.

But the difference is that Ian realised his mistakes and began building the world up as early as Issue 13 which kicked off the original Spiritus Ex Machina arc, focusing on a few new original characters, introducing characters from later games that fit in the world, and establishing bigger threats than just Wily himself. He started adding more world-building and doing more original things that worked alongside the games, especially by the time we got to Mega Man 3 which was done entirely through the perspective of the Robot Masters. But most importantly - by the end - Archie Mega Man was garnering tons of praise for being a kids comic that didn't talk down to them, tackled some heavy subjects, and still kept things light and fun.

Post-Reboot Archie did the same thing, especially with arcs like Champions and Control. 

My point is - I'm disappointed because it's following an even weaker pattern of what Mega Man did, and it's showing massively now. There's been no time to stop and breath, bar one issue and even that issue was dealing with immediate consequences of Metal Sonic's attack.

It's one thing after another after another, and it shows because it's going in a formula now as well. The locales change, but it keeps remaining the same thing for a lot of the issues, Sonic and Resistance teammate investigates situation, they beat up robots, or bad guy of the week, bad guy of the week under-estimates them, Sonic cracks wise about being the fastest thing alive, reference to the next big arc, repeat. There's no memorable characters or areas in this world, bar Tangle and Whisper, and it isn't helped that both of them are associated with random villages instead of actual memorable areas of the world, like Lupe was in Archie Sonic for example.

It feels like it's afraid to take risks, it's afraid to just stop for a bit and show the world at large, it doesn't want to take a moment to try set up bigger stakes, bar a bunch of nameless Mobians being turned into robots. It's one thing when we had this situation in Archie Sonic, in which we had all of these different areas with different locales - usually with a hero, or group closely related to them and not have them be only the main cast, but rather those who are directly tied to their own stories, people, and areas - and forced to experience things on the ground floor whenever Eggman finally pulled off his latest and greatest thing. Now the only time we ever really get to experience that impact is from the main cast, and that's just kind of boring because we already know they all have to get out of it without a scratch anyways.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Personally I still say I'll take "Boring Adventures" over shitty love triangles, Overpowerd God Knuckles, Boring fucking Echidna's and Politics. This is why I preferred the Post-Reboot stuff and why I prefer IDW it's simple. It's fun there's a decent flow and it's not up it's own ass trying to prove it's more mature than the games.

This is what I was wanting just Sonic and his friends smashing robots and stopping the newest evil scheme with some fun character dynamics. But I've made it clear before I really don't xcare about the deep lore or want to Sonic's character assassinated by having him bawl like a baby because Eggman beat him because that's not Sonic. Sonic is a high adventure thrill ride and IMHO the book is delivering on that. It's not the deepest thing but it's Sonic for crying out loud.

Thank you, people can say whatever they want about it's being its own thing but , it doesn't a good thing. It was mocked and called Furry-Fanfiction drama for a reason. Just because it was different doesnt mean its good. a COMIC having consistent errors in art, badly thined plotpoints, characters acting out of character. character creator favoritism balant obvious in the writing,  stealing from other sourches to make a '' lore'' in Sonic (The Knuckles comic book stole elements from Star Wars and Star Trek in visual and story designs. ) a comic that relied heavily on dialog and didnt show-and-tell, cringy written romance and often inconsistent art-quality doesn't mean its good. Even if you can criticize IDW-Sonic for being boring (trough I disagree,) it still holds up well in the art and character department. The comic shows us things that happen with visual cues which is what a comic is supposed to do. Its doing its work correctly and better in that regard then its predecessor. 

 

The comic is ofcourse a bit more like the games then pre-archie because the comic was always supposed to be advertising the game. Lol. There is a reason why the majority of people who grew up on the Sonic games and/or Sonic X during the 2000-era, didn't like the Archie comic.

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I love how people are automatically assuming that because we have legit criticisms about the series, it just means "we want more furry drama".

 

Forget the fact that people have explained what their problems are in clear detail and in respectful manner. Clearly we just want more furry drama...

 

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22 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It's one thing after another after another, and it shows because it's going in a formula now as well. The locales change, but it keeps remaining the same thing for a lot of the issues, Sonic and Resistance teammate investigates situation, they beat up robots, or bad guy of the week, bad guy of the week under-estimates them, Sonic cracks wise about being the fastest thing alive, reference to the next big arc, repeat. There's no memorable characters or areas in this world, bar Tangle and Whisper, and it isn't helped that both of them are associated with random villages instead of actual memorable areas of the world, like Lupe was in Archie Sonic for example.

To be fair to Whisper, she's actually got some stuff going on for later appearances and isn't really attached to any one place. There's more of a mystery and drama centering around her, similar to Dr. Starline.

You're pretty right with Tangle, though.

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I love how people are automatically assuming that because we have legit criticisms about the series, it just means "we want more furry drama".

 

Forget the fact that people have explained what their problems are in clear detail and in respectful manner. Clearly we just want more furry drama...

 

Eh, can't say it hasn't happened before.

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9 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I love how people are automatically assuming that because we have legit criticisms about the series, it just means "we want more furry drama".

 

Forget the fact that people have explained what their problems are in clear detail and in respectful manner. Clearly we just want more furry drama...

 

Obvious my comment isn't directed at EVERYONE who has legit criticism at the comic so please dont put words into people's mouth.

My  comment was directed at everyone who tries to claim Archie-Sonic was better on the grounds that it ''it was different'' or '' had its own indenty''? being unique and doing things different doesn't mean its automatically good , you could argue the last-run or post-reboot maybe but the older comics had tons of issues including two writers who addmited would outright ignore each others writing and re-conning each others work out of spite, and that''s just one of the tiny examples of the older comics flaws.*

 

I am talking about Ken Penders and Karl Boilers. Not like it was a big secret that they had poor teamwork when the comic was running with the two of them as leads.

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Some part of me want to walk in here and start harping about how this tedium is the inevitable outcome of a comic more reigned into the games-verse.... but I understand that's only a part of the problem here.

... that and the fact I'd probably be brick'd to death too.

 

I'm fine with where the comics are at right now. I don't think the rouge's gallery is large enough just yet to really push the interconnected narratives that Flynn excelled at toward the end of his Archie days. There he had Eggy, Snivley, the Egg Bosses and even regional dictators like Regina and Naugus to bounce off of. 20 odd characters that shifted the balance of power around gave actions and reactions to everything that happens. We don't have that in IDW yet. We've got Starline and the Skunk duo...

I think the best thing the comics can do in year two, is start to roll in additional threats. They don't have to be Eggman tier threats (although Metal Sonic was a good start before he fell back in line) but I would like to see some additional antagonists with their own plot points added into the mix. It doesn't have to be new characters either. The Zeti are sitting on the bench. Nega is still stuck in limbo somewhere. Capt'n Whisker and Johnny are up and about. Somebody give me an Infinite? Shoot, creative writing can get around that roadblock. Have some dastardly pit the Sol dimension against the Chaos dimension and Blaze turns into a reluctant frenemy for a bit. Give Shadow another hard-on for the master emerald an he gets to be a bad guy again. G-Mel can get hacked, GUN could get some spotty intel forcing them to burn Team Dark there is a ton of stuff to play with here.

We just need more complicated and dynamic interconnections.

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That's one thing I can very much agree about, the lack of other vilians , I love Starline and Metal Sonic but there at the moment are '' working for Eggman only''  territory. (Rough and Tumble too)

It really sucks that Post-Archie reboot Egg-bosses, Infinte and other game villains  are all off-limit by mandates. I think Infinte had a lot of potential to be a great boss in the IDW Comic books (heck he isn't even a Hedgehog! yay)

Here is hoping for the creation of more grey / better written villains in the future and we already have an implied-departure with Starline's view on his senpai Eggman having decreased by the lattest issue.

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I dunno, I'm loving the villains so far except Tumble, who has got nothing really, even Rough has the tail thing but it's not much, they just fill the role left by the Hooligans. I loved Neo Metal Sonic a lot more than in Heroes, and I'm loving Eggman and Starline, obviously everyone has a different thing that they want from the series, but I'd rather develop the characters we have and flesh them out, in the case of Rough, Tumble and Starline it's possible because they are comic exclusive, than introducing filler villains.

Same with the filler issues, 12 was already the big aftermath filler that people liked, 14 was yet another filler issue, we need more plot and interesting narratives, new things to break the formula. We don't need the story to go slower, just more in depth, I think.

Tangle and Whisper are gonna get fleshed out too, hopefully. I'm rather content with the pace of the arcs so far, as I said and I'll say it again, 1 year with 12 issues is perfect so we don't feel trapped with in the arcs. But some things last longer obviously, as Ian has already been doing.

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2 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

I am talking about Ken Penders and Karl Boilers. Not like it was a big secret that they had poor teamwork when the comic was running with the two of them as leads.

Well, saying that is kinda waste of space.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does anybody, ANYBODY thought that Archie Sonic was way better before Flynn took over?

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2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Some part of me want to walk in here and start harping about how this tedium is the inevitable outcome of a comic more reigned into the games-verse.... but I understand that's only a part of the problem here.

... that and the fact I'd probably be brick'd to death too.

 

Didn't someone say that was part of it?

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I'm fine with where the comics are at right now. I don't think the rouge's gallery is large enough just yet to really push the interconnected narratives that Flynn excelled at toward the end of his Archie days. There he had Eggy, Snivley, the Egg Bosses and even regional dictators like Regina and Naugus to bounce off of. 20 odd characters that shifted the balance of power around gave actions and reactions to everything that happens. We don't have that in IDW yet. We've got Starline and the Skunk duo...

There was also other regional heroes, civilians, and neutrals to help flesh things out both on Sonic's end and from world perspective as well.

2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

We don't have that in IDW yet. We've got Starline and the Skunk duo...

I think the best thing the comics can do in year two, is start to roll in additional threats. They don't have to be Eggman tier threats (although Metal Sonic was a good start before he fell back in line) but I would like to see some additional antagonists with their own plot points added into the mix. It doesn't have to be new characters either. The Zeti are sitting on the bench. Nega is still stuck in limbo somewhere. Capt'n Whisker and Johnny are up and about. Somebody give me an Infinite? Shoot, creative writing can get around that roadblock. Have some dastardly pit the Sol dimension against the Chaos dimension and Blaze turns into a reluctant frenemy for a bit. Give Shadow another hard-on for the master emerald an he gets to be a bad guy again. G-Mel can get hacked, GUN could get some spotty intel forcing them to burn Team Dark there is a ton of stuff to play with here.

We just need more complicated and dynamic interconnections.

Pretty much. I also like how you noted we could have a few personal struggles and ideological disagreements between the heroes again, which is part of why Issue 2 was so good.

We might be waitin a good while for at least half of that, though.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jack the Shadow said:

I dunno, I'm loving the villains so far except Tumble, who has got nothing really, even Rough has the tail thing but it's not much, they just fill the role left by the Hooligans.

Rough is the little teal one and Tumble is the big beige one.

And to be fair, they are not really major plot characters themselves and they are much more aggressive than the Hooligans.

 

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3 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Say what you like about pre-reboot Archie, but at least it had its own identity. IDW just feels like an advertisement for the games.

About all I'm going to say is that Archie was also licensed out as an advertisement for the games but had no oversight which is what resulted in it being what it was.

On the IDW book, I think a lot of what is hurting with the whole world building scenario and effecting people's ability to care is that we are still too attached to the Resistance and they are pretty much scattered everywhere without anything concrete tying them to any given location like Knuckles. As a result, Sonic has to be all over the place as well to keep everyone tied together and that plays against the structure that works for the games and allows for more intimate stories where the comic should shine.

One of the strengths of the game settings is that they are typically tied to a single location which can be explored in detail from beginning to end. Sonic 1 had South Island, Sonic CD LIttle Planet, Sonic 2 West Side Island, 3&K Angel Island, 3D Blast Flicky Island, Adventure Station Square, Adventure 2 Capital City and the Ark, 06 Soleanna, Colors Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park, Lost World the Lost Hex, even forces with the Resistance Base. And when these stories didn't have a place that served as the focal point of the adventure it had characters to focus on such as Chip, Black Doom, Professor Pickle, etc.

To me, as much as I am able to enjoy the comic for what it is right now, the biggest thing that it is missing is a focused sense of adventure which rewards us with a sense of discovery, curiosity, attachment, concern, anxiety, and relief. Sure the downside involves attachment wanting us to revisit the characters and locales of the story, but that intimacy is necessary to make the story have weight. I mean just take Shadow's story in Adventure 2 and then imagine that in a comic arc with a comic original character that they can actually die and stay dead because they aren't the licensed characters. Even if Sonic saves the day in the end these lesser characters and their stories which Sonic chooses to get involved with are where Sonic can fail either by them changing sides, disagreeing with how Sonic saved the day, or even dying or just plain being injured. At that point you have stakes and you wonder can Sonic pull it off, or perhaps you have a Station Square scenario where the collateral truly is unforgivable and that sets someone on a path of vengeance against Sonic later. Arguably one could say that the book would become cluttered with original characters, but that's why at the end of the adventure and story Sonic moves on and leaves behind the characters who were only needed for the story unless they have a reason to move on as well. Just because a character was introduced doesn't mean they have to become a member of the main cast.

Lastly, the other benefit to using the game narrative structure of focusing on a single or handful of locations for an entire story is that just like the games you can keep it self contained so that way it doesn't clash with the games narrative and it is simply something that happened that can be referenced later to provide a sense of continuity or even more if necessary.

I guess I would say if I was to simplify all of this down is that what IDW needs is start a story arc from nothing but Sonic arriving someone and building an intimate adventure from there with naturally escalating stakes which are related to the adventure at hand. Right now running around all over the place without any sense of direction or investment will only work for as long as the Resistance and its derivatives are the point of focus which should not be the case. Sonic and even Eggman are characters who follow legends, rumors, or just what sound like the next good idea to their next conflict and get embroiled with whatever happens to be the location of their next encounter with anyone else from the recurring cast showing up if they happen to catch up with Sonic or are already there on their own business. Getting involved with the locals is what Sonic and Eggman do and it is what gives most Sonic stories their heart. Sticking to the static main cast only interacting amongst themselves is nice right now as a novelty due to how botched the games have felt in that regard of late, but sooner than later you have to get back to what makes the game stories work and to me that is investment in a focused location or handful thereof and the characters who Sonic and Eggman interact with while there. You don't have to take the focus off of Sonic and Eggman either, you just need to have them focus on the location and characters in the story like in Adventure 2, Unleashed, and even Colors frankly. I can't help but hope that that will come sooner than later. Until then though, hopefully I'll still be entertained by the book as I have been so far.

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5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I love how people are automatically assuming that because we have legit criticisms about the series, it just means "we want more furry drama".

 

Forget the fact that people have explained what their problems are in clear detail and in respectful manner. Clearly we just want more furry drama...

 

Nobody said that. 

 

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