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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Yeah but unlike Mina Mongoose Sega kind of always owned the rights to the SatAM characters anyhow.

And if it is indeed Sega who is not allowing the freedom fighters to come back then I say to hell with sega.

Not like I would be alone in disdain for sega, not just on the freedom fighters (and in hindsight is a small matter considering segas track record as of late) but man sega has not had a good game in a while so....

My feelings against sega go beyond sonic so you all know, not really a fan of the company these days.

Sure they are no EA or Ubisoft but they do have some scorn from me and justifiably so.

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10 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

A bit, but if this just the start of a series of " Ok this character gets a mini series " then that makes more sense and IDW probs just wanted their characters first.

Either way I don't think its the smartest idea, a good way to get people to hate your characters is to push to hard in the beginning.

I suppose so. It just seems super friggin early for that, especially since they had only two appearances in the book by the time that was announced(citation please?) and at their best, Whisper is another Thrash.

Yeesh, when Mr. Flynn said SEGA were giving IDW a hellava lot of creative leeway with Sonic, he must've really fuckin meant it.

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Anyway my disliking of the Freedom Fighters as I said, has nothing to do with the fact that they do not originate from the games, even though I don't see why it's weird for them to focus on the actually iconic characters that everyone loves. Freedom Fighters are also loved though, but they are gone, they don't need to be in this book since they are simply not a part of it. They were built in mind for the Archie book, but not here, so it's not the IDW run's fault if they are not present, it's an Archie vs SEGA problem that the book was suddenly cancelled without closure. I'm sorry for their fans, but it's not an issue here.

And to finish my speech, I don't like the Freedom Fighters because they are built as main characters taking away screentime from Sonic and I just don't find them interesting aside from Bunnie and Nicole, whereas I prefer Sonic as protagonist, and in lesser way, Tails, Knuckles and Amy as main cast and that's it.

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Just now, Jack the Shadow said:

Anyway my disliking of the Freedom Fighters as I said, has nothing to do with the fact that they do not originate from the games, even though I don't see why it's weird for them to focus on the actually iconic characters that everyone loves. Freedom Fighters are also loved though, but they are gone, they don't need to be in this book since they are simply not a part of it. They were built in mind for the Archie book, but not here, so it's not the IDW run's fault if they are not present, it's an Archie vs SEGA problem that the book was suddenly cancelled without closure. I'm sorry for their fans, but it's not an issue here.

And to finish my speech, I don't like the Freedom Fighters because they are built as main characters taking away screentime from Sonic and I just don't find them interesting aside from Bunnie and Nicole, whereas I prefer Sonic as protagonist, and in lesser way, Tails, Knuckles and Amy as main cast and that's it.

Well people always forget that the freedom fighters were created to fill in the gaps, the games only had a few characters back then and the comics would have been boring if it was just sonic and tails and Robotnik.

And yes they may have lost relevance thanks to segas insistence of being more characters into the fray but they do have fans.

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55 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

It isn't that I don't want the SatAM characters, it's just...when you have your favorites taken away from you while others not only get to stay but persist into other canons, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, you know?

Then let's just cancel Sonic all together so no one gets mad 

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14 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well people always forget that the freedom fighters were created to fill in the gaps, the games only had a few characters back then and the comics would have been boring if it was just sonic and tails and Robotnik.

And yes they may have lost relevance thanks to segas insistence of being more characters into the fray but they do have fans.

Uh, sort of?

Sally, Antoine, and apparently Rotor were all intended to contrast with Sonic's personality in different ways, while Bunnie was more of an extension of the roboticizer concept, which itself was an extreme version of the Badniks. And NICOLE is...something else connected to Sally.

Also, the Freedom Fighters and Snively were actually created for SatAM, but the comics debuted first. What's interesting is that there is a lot of alternative details and designs for the early American & British spinoff stuff that shows up in not only the different spinoffs back then, but in production materials.

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16 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well people always forget that the freedom fighters were created to fill in the gaps, the games only had a few characters back then and the comics would have been boring if it was just sonic and tails and Robotnik.

And yes they may have lost relevance thanks to segas insistence of being more characters into the fray but they do have fans.

The games still come first, and the characters who appear in them at least have something… the Freedom Fighters were niche characters that stayed surprisingly long, I think they've had a good life, maybe we could say the reboot was their redemption.

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Okay, low key, can we maybe cool it on arguing about the Freedom Fighters a bit?

Like, I deliberately omitted referencing the Princess Sally Miniseries in my post about Tangle and Whisper specifically because I didn't wanna encourage it.

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2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, low key, can we maybe cool it on arguing about the Freedom Fighters a bit?

Like, I deliberately omitted referencing the Princess Sally Miniseries in my post about Tangle and Whisper specifically because I didn't wanna encourage it.

Well there is a difference between the sally conic mini series and this, as it was a little while before sally got her own miniseries.

These days its too common to have a spinoff just because you can and yes that is a legitimate criticism of the modern comic industry... its so bloated anymore.

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6 hours ago, Redbluethunder5 said:

Justifying the bland writing we have now with stuff made ages ago by writers who don't even work for the book anymore it's extremely unfair : it's like you WANT the Archie Sonic to be hated so that nobody will bother you for liking IDW. Newsflash : people still like Archie Sonic, both pre or post reboot and they have all the right to like them. You want a game : play the games. A comic should be different. And IDW Sonic is literally the same as God Knuckles, since he cannot loose or show much human emotion. 

 

Wow that is an overreaction. You can like Pre-Reboot Archie dude. Hell I don't even hate a lot of Pre-Reboot Archie I just don't see it as the kind of thing I immediately think of when I think of Sonic.

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7 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well there is a difference between the sally conic mini series and this, as it was a little while before sally got her own miniseries.

These days its too common to have a spinoff just because you can and yes that is a legitimate criticism of the modern comic industry... its so bloated anymore.

That's part of it.

Of course, when you compare SEGA's degree of oversight on the two comics and how much it seemingly took to get the spinoff off the ground, it gets even more bizarre.

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15 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well there is a difference between the sally conic mini series and this, as it was a little while before sally got her own miniseries.

These days its too common to have a spinoff just because you can and yes that is a legitimate criticism of the modern comic industry... its so bloated anymore.

Actually...It's roughly the same amount of time. The Sally Miniseries began publishing during #21-23 of the Archie Comic. While the 0 issue (which seems to mostly be a recap) was solicited with #16 I believe it was the actual Miniseries hasn't been solicited yet. It could start around issue 18 or so so it's not that much sooner than Sally's miniseries.

And I'd like to point out Tangle & Whisper  is happening for pretty much the same reason Sally's did. Because they're popular. There's nothing more to it than that.

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Just now, SBR2 said:

Actually...It's roughly the same amount of time. The Sally Miniseries began publishing during #21-23 of the Archie Comic. While the 0 issue (which seems to mostly be a recap) was solicited with #16 I believe it was the actual Miniseries hasn't been solicited yet. It could start around issue 18 or so so it's not that much sooner than Sally's miniseries.

And I'd like to point out Tangle & Whisper  is happening for pretty much the same reason Sally's did. Because they're popular. There's nothing more to it than that.

Yeah but sally was also in SatAM so has have a bonus with her.

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1 minute ago, SBR2 said:

Actually...It's roughly the same amount of time. The Sally Miniseries began publishing during #21-23 of the Archie Comic. While the 0 issue (which seems to mostly be a recap) was solicited with #16 I believe it was the actual Miniseries hasn't been solicited yet. It could start around issue 18 or so so it's not that much sooner than Sally's miniseries.

And I'd like to point out Tangle & Whisper  is happening for pretty much the same reason Sally's did. Because they're popular. There's nothing more to it than that.

Huh. After [not actually] crunching the numbers, I suppose that's at least technically true. And I say technically because, even if you ignore SATAM not being out just yet, I think there was originally a collection of early stories that Archie started with before it's actual run.

The distinction, of course, is that Sally had a lot more established material and lead-in to carry into a spinoff story than Whisper does.

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2 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

So anyway , I would.love seeing more IDW characters, what type of characters do you guys want to see in the book?

My first choice would be to see more villains, but they've really been trying to pick up the slack in that regards in recent years with The Deadly Six, Rough n Tumble, and Dr. Starline, so maybe there's not as much a need to rush there.

I guess a male hero or neutral could be a decent slot to fill when necessary.

Hm, idk, I'd have to think. Maybe even dig up some older concepts and wants.

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9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

My first choice would be to see more villains, but they've really been trying to pick up the slack in that regards in recent years with The Deadly Six, Rough n Tumble, and Dr. Starline, so maybe there's not as much a need to rush there.

I guess a male hero or neutral could be a decent slot to fill when necessary.

Hm, idk, I'd have to think. Maybe even dig up some older concepts and wants.

Well more villains is a good thing for a ongoing comic series, rouges galleries make superheros after all.

I mean yes they can bring back the deadly 6 or Infinite heck i am all for it if only to give sonic more to fight against so the series would not be stale.

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31 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

So anyway , I would.love seeing more IDW characters, what type of characters do you guys want to see in the book?

I would like to see more villains but for characters other than Sonic. Like a personal rival/villain for Amy.  I'm sure that Tangle and Whisper will run into a threat that isn't just Eggman in their mini-series.

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32 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well more villains is a good thing for a ongoing comic series, rouges galleries make superheros after all.

I mean yes they can bring back the deadly 6 or Infinite heck i am all for it if only to give sonic more to fight against so the series would not be stale.

Very true. 

And that is very much the game plan, but it'll take time. 

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IDW is trying to recreate the feel of SATAM/Pre-boot Archie under the backdrop of Sonic Forces, but is unable to recreate all the elements that made people love that series. It is too much like the games to pull it off easily.

At the same point IDW isn't really appealing to the fans of other continuities by having these long running, dramatic story arcs and introducing new characters that are more grounded than what people are used to from the games (and X/Boom to a lesser extent).

Talking from bias here, but outside of a few story arcs the comics haven't really tried being like the games. I think people may be able to accept the loss of the Archie elements if the comic wasn't trying to be like Archie. Maybe these people would be able to accept the comic as something different if it was actually trying to be something different.

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2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Can you name any similarities between SATAM & IDW and Pre-Genesis Wave Archie & IDW?

There's the Resistance which is a very basic concept and was from a Sega game. Eggman conqueringthe world which has been used in a bunch of media and again was from Forces. 

Honestly I have no idea what they're talking about. It's taken more from Sonic Heroes than it has SatAM.

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2 hours ago, chaosjam said:

I would like to see more villains but for characters other than Sonic. Like a personal rival/villain for Amy.  I'm sure that Tangle and Whisper will run into a threat that isn't just Eggman in their mini-series.

Now that you mention it, the only villains Amy had thus far were Metal, the Monkey Metarex, and Jun Kun.

Unless there was one in STC.

27 minutes ago, Slashy said:

IDW is trying to recreate the feel of SATAM/Pre-boot Archie under the backdrop of Sonic Forces, but is unable to recreate all the elements that made people love that series. It is too much like the games to pull it off easily.

At the same point IDW isn't really appealing to the fans of other continuities by having these long running, dramatic story arcs and introducing new characters that are more grounded than what people are used to from the games (and X/Boom to a lesser extent).

Talking from bias here, but outside of a few story arcs the comics haven't really tried being like the games. I think people may be able to accept the loss of the Archie elements if the comic wasn't trying to be like Archie. Maybe these people would be able to accept the comic as something different if it was actually trying to be something different.

I think part of it is because Archie WAS the Sonic comic for such a long, sometimes tumultuous time that the comparison is kinda imminent.

I mean, you can not compare the two, but chances are it's gonna come up at some point.

Which it has. Numerous times.

18 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Can you name any similarities between SATAM & IDW and Pre-Genesis Wave Archie & IDW?

Aside from the carry over from Forces(which was compared to SatAM itself), there's Ian Flynn as the head writer, Tracy Yardley, Evan Stanley, and Adam Bryce Thomas are back as pencils, um, I think Matty Herms did colors once, and a number of issues take place in forest villages and two mobian cities with walls.

Oh and Dr. Starline's design was inspired by Dr. Finitevus.

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4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

My first choice would be to see more villains, but they've really been trying to pick up the slack in that regards in recent years with The Deadly Six, Rough n Tumble, and Dr. Starline, so maybe there's not as much a need to rush there.

I think it'd be kind of nice to have a villain that isn't really affiliated with Eggman. Much as I loved the Egg Bosses in reboot Archie, it seemed like a waste to have all the major villains under Eggman's heel. Even groups like the Armada (Naugus was the only exception and he wasn't present until near the end of the ongoing arc). Makes me a bit torn on Starline since I think he's probably my favorite addition that I've seen in IDW but he seems like the type of character I'd prefer following his own plans and even getting in Eggman's way instead of helping him. I could be wrong though. I haven't read the most recent issues so for all I know he could be similar to previous Egg Bosses or pre-reboot Archie characters like Lien-da who were only helping build Eggman's forces so they can reap the benefits when he falls.

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