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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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On 2/18/2019 at 4:48 AM, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Dude, that stuff is on the absolute low end of the worst Penders has done and no where near as damaging to Sonic’s identity as what Sega has done.

 

eh I got to disagree. no mather how dumb and bad Shadow the Hedgehog game is, how cringy and terrible the dialog is in Sonic Lost Worlds,  and how bad Sonic 06 is, it still beats Sonic dating his best friend's crush and then rubbing that fact into his parents how Tails worships him anyway so its okay, 
Or that time when they took a strong headed princess like Sally and write her out to be selfish girl who cries whirpool of tears because she cant handle anything without her boyfriend, and makes him choose between her and saving the world,
and there is this

1716218547_images(5).jpg.0cebd9b957881a688cccb400769ea5f2.jpg* and this isn't even mentioning the stuff Penders wrote because that would take a few pages more then this

 

One of the things I really wanted was to see Infinte in the IDW book because I would have loved seeing him interact with Starline, 
If Starline plays the ''parallel role'' of being the Tails to Eggman (or..the Amy Rose to Eggman I wont judge)
I like to imagine Infinite being a parallel role as the Knuckles for Eggman.  

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I don't think Starline would be that interesting if he was mindlessly following Eggman.

I do appreciate that he is a sort of fanboy of the doc, but I think his character could develop in a different direction if he were to became desillusioned by the way Eggman works, such as him wanting to prove superior before obtaining the victory.

Think of like how Dr. Evil's biological son would prefer the more practical solution over his father's more flashy (and ridiculous) plots.

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40 minutes ago, Sean said:

Oh for fuck's sake we're not doing this again.

I'm wiping this entire last page for derailing the thread. Enough with this "x character should kill y character" garbage. This is a series for children

Not trynna be rude or nothing

But uh, The writer of this comic Kind of made it a thing. And is probably gonna continue being a theme through this comic it seems, so I mean it just seems like unless you are gonna restrict discussion of certain issues of the comic , past or future it just seems like you gonna keep being annoyed. I think my stance is been made clear on this " I don't think that should have been the conflict brought up in the first place " but it is, and sonic's actions having repercussions seems like on some level gonna matter so. I feel like you are gonna have to deal with more of this infuture.

 

Unless you are just gonna ban Shadow issue talk in future?

edit: To be honest, are you just gonna avoid all shadow talk in general? Because him being the violent sometimes muder-ey guy is kind of his thing. Heck you can't say that its in the past, because it popped up in the last game. It seems as though you have an issue with the series being multifaceted in its presentation. 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Not trynna be rude or nothing

But uh, The writer of this comic Kind of made it a thing. And is probably gonna continue being a theme through this comic it seems, so I mean it just seems like unless you are gonna restrict discussion of certain issues of the comic , past or future it just seems like you gonna keep being annoyed. I think my stance is been made clear on this " I don't think that should have been the conflict brought up in the first place " but it is, and sonic's actions having repercussions seems like on some level gonna matter so. I feel like you are gonna have to deal with more of this infuture.

 

Unless you are just gonna ban Shadow issue talk in future?

edit: To be honest, are you just gonna avoid all shadow talk in general? Because him being the violent sometimes muder-ey guy is kind of his thing. Heck you can't say that its in the past, because it popped up in the last game. It seems as though you have an issue with the series being multifaceted in its presentation. 

Maybe the mods are just sick of the fact that nearly every month, this topic is derailed to talk about why Sonic sucks, why Shadow is amazing and why Shadow should be able to one shot each and every person. Not to mention it’s been brought up time and time again to the same arguments and counter arguments.

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27 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Maybe the mods are just sick of the fact that nearly every month, this topic is derailed to talk about why Sonic sucks, why Shadow is amazing and why Shadow should be able to one shot each and every person. Not to mention it’s been brought up time and time again to the same arguments and counter arguments.

Then just ban dash speed. He's the only one who's makng those arguments.  And this isn't about that, its about why does heroman muder villian man. Which you can argue a ridiculous sentiment to bring up if. Sega doesn't keep doing it themselves with shadow, and just did it again with eggman which was what the conversation is about.  And the only argument with shadow that keeps being brought up with is the thing with sonic last year which was about murder. And I think it wasn't written that great( and shouldn't have been writen at all to avoid all this ) but it was, and it exists. And discussion will be he had.

So like if this element of sonic that keeps being brought up through official sega channels both in game and in supplementary material is making you miserable because it keeps being discussed why are you a moderator on a sonic site, because its gonna keep bring brought up. 

This isn't some gate keeping thing either, my presence in the sonic fanbase is as of currently damn near nonexistant at this point because it keeps doing shit I do not like and sometimes discussion of such  is making me miserable. My interests mostly lie elsewhere these days besides forum posts. I'm the only one who can find my own happyness, and if you are modering a site that is a fan site for a franshise that keeps producing shit that creates conversation that makes you miserable. Why, what did you expect?

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1 hour ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

 it still beats Sonic dating his best friend's crush and then rubbing that fact into his parents how Tails worships him anyway so its okay, 

He was only saying that Tails would understand him having to keep them on lockdown for the time being and even if he didn't, that he'd be able to get to understand because of the hero worship.

It was Tails who brought up the thing with Fiona during their fight, who was just a longer term extension of how Sonic hasn't been taking his feelings into consideration.

 

1 hour ago, Kellodrawsalot said:


and there is this

1716218547_images(5).jpg.0cebd9b957881a688cccb400769ea5f2.jpg* and this isn't even mentioning the stuff Penders wrote because that would take a few pages more then this

 

Actually, that was Romy Chacon. Mr. Penders had almost nothing to do with Mammoth Mogul and Tails's Destiny.

1 hour ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

One of the things I really wanted was to see Infinte in the IDW book because I would have loved seeing him interact with Starline, 
If Starline plays the ''parallel role'' of being the Tails to Eggman (or..the Amy Rose to Eggman I wont judge)
I like to imagine Infinite being a parallel role as the Knuckles for Eggman.  

Hm...not sure that parallel lines up that well, but whatever. They both have egos at least.

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20 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

He was only saying that Tails would understand him having to keep them on lockdown for the time being and even if he didn't, that he'd be able to get to understand because of the hero worship.

It was Tails who brought up the thing with Fiona during their fight, who was just a longer term extension of how Sonic hasn't been taking his feelings into consideration.

 

Actually, that was Romy Chacon. Mr. Penders had almost nothing to do with Mammoth Mogul and Tails's Destiny.

Hm...not sure that parallel lines up that well, but whatever. They both have egos at least.

sigh.... Please re-read the part next to the panel: * and this isn't even mentioning the stuff Penders wrote because that would take a few pages more then this.

Not of the story bits I mentioned was from Penders, House of Cards was written by Ian Flynn and Sally Slaps Sonic was written by Karl Bollers. My point was if I would bring up the bad things Penders wrote it would be several pages long. 

That part of the lock-down still came of as very selfish and Sonic was very obvious/out of character unaware that  he hurt Tails with Fiona even admitting he saw Fiona as someone to help him heal from hurting by his breakup with Sally.

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1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

 

edit: To be honest, are you just gonna avoid all shadow talk in general? 

Hey, that's what I generally do.

29 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

sigh.... Please re-read the part next to the panel: * and this isn't even mentioning the stuff Penders wrote because that would take a few pages more then this.

Not of the story bits I mentioned was from Penders, House of Cards was written by Ian Flynn and Sally Slaps Sonic was written by Karl Bollers. My point was if I would bring up the bad things Penders wrote it would be several pages long. 

Ah, gotcha.

I misunderstood.

30 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

 

That part of the lock-down still came of as very selfish and Sonic was very obvious/out of character unaware that  he hurt Tails with Fiona 

Uh, it's been a while, but was Tails's crush on Fiona something Sonic was generally conscious of?

Oh and the lockdown wasn't Sonic being selfish so much as a bit of a brash dick.

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11 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Hey, that's what I generally do.

Ah, gotcha.

I misunderstood.

Uh, it's been a while, but was Tails's crush on Fiona something Sonic was generally conscious of?

Oh and the lockdown wasn't Sonic being selfish so much as a bit of a brash dick.

Good point, that was also my issue with Sonic.Him just being a dick most of the times.

And yes he was, (correct me if Im wrong) but I remember two instances one where Sonic thinks to himself that he is aware Tails has a crush on Fiona and that he wanted to prevent Tails from embarrassing himself   to flirt with a much older woman, another one where he thinks to himself again as he sees Tails giving Fiona a drink at the party and he thinks to himself that Tails is confusing older Fiona with Robot Fiona. Near the end of House of Cards Sonic even tells Tails that he was aware how much Fiona meant to Tails but that she had no intrest in him and hoped he would move on if he hooked up with her.

 

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

Oh for fuck's sake we're not doing this again.

I'm wiping this entire last page for derailing the thread. Enough with this "x character should kill y character" garbage. This is a series for children

Death happens in kids' series more often than you think.

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9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Hey, that's what I generally do.

.

Hey good strat not gonna lie

I'm with @Kellodrawsalot nothing in the games really hits anything of the embarassing and sometimes problematic stuff that has come off out of a very specific era of the comic. Its not all on penders. I mentioned before how the future arc should have been strait dropped but Ian thought he could pull more out of it.

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6 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

I would actually love to see a gay relationship in a mainstream Sonic story, if a Sonic comic writer commits to it then mad props here (and yes that goes for Ian as well)

Sure its for a villain but hey I am all for gay villains if done properly.

I have a feeling the fact it’s a human/anthro romance may be an issue there.

Pretty sure Ian has said at least once that’s a subject he has no intention of going anywhere near.

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11 minutes ago, Ernest the Panda said:

I have a feeling the fact it’s a human/anthro romance may be an issue there.

Pretty sure Ian has said at least once that’s a subject he has no intention of going anywhere near.

True he did say that years ago, I personally find that to be a bit silly and ironic since SOJ always toyed with the idea of giving Sonic a human girlfriend various times.

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17 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Death happens in kids' series more often than you think.

Disney Deaths all the way, mang.

Every character who dies in this comic should always done so by falling off a cliff, that way everyone wins.

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Yeah there's a difference between most death you see in kid's stuff and uh, straight up murdering someone, especially as one of the heroes.

I'm not really against Shadow wanting to end Eggman in theory but it kind of feels like it came out of nowhere? Like I know Forces just happened but Shadow wasn't exactly gunning for him before that despite...everything he had already done. The actual point is that obviously it wasn't going to happen considering what the series is generally like, and while there's discussion to be had there I mostly just don't like the idea of throwing Sonic under the bus for it. Like, I think he should (and probably does/will) feel bad about what happened but more so because he hadn't been keeping enough of a track of what was going on with Tinker.

"Oh he should have just let Shadow do whatever" is stupid for a lot of reasons, one being that in context Eggman literally didn't have his memories and was for all intents and purposes a different person. To the audience that obviously wasn't going to stick but that doesn't really matter for the characters. If Shadow had done it it mostly would have been for revenge at that point, and well he kinda already learned a lesson about that didn't he?

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1 hour ago, Celestia said:

I'm not really against Shadow wanting to end Eggman in theory but it kind of feels like it came out of nowhere? Like I know Forces just happened but Shadow wasn't exactly gunning for him before that despite...everything he had already done. The actual point is that obviously it wasn't going to happen considering what the series is generally like, and while there's discussion to be had there

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think forces matters or mattered to the plot as much people think it did. Everything that happened, even the stuff with shadow can basically be isolated events. The only thing I think this comic does with it is " The resistance exists " ( which is so basic a concept ... it doesn't need forces there ) and starline explains where the chaos emeralds were in that game. Otherwise.... eh.

So characters having completely different motivations doesn't surprise me because the story used very little of forces anyway. This is on top of characters in forces besides vert basic " Stop the bad " had.. no motivation or interesting thoughts period besides infinite. Might as well just make up your own stuff at this point.

1 hour ago, Celestia said:

I mostly just don't like the idea of throwing Sonic under the bus for it. Like, I think he should (and probably does/will) feel bad about what happened but more so because he hadn't been keeping enough of a track of what was going on with Tinker.

I think its a genuinely great idea to throw sonic directly under several busses. You want to keep a highly murderous dictator around because he lost his memory. Dope, you have to make sure he doesn't become that person again. And he didn't think about any of that responsibility, and now he has to deal with all that. And its a lot more than just feeling bad,  its understanding why he fucked up. Peoples lives are in danger and shit, i'm sure those people take solace in sonic feeling bad. And what better place for introspection than under buss. Nice and cozy , can get some good alone thinking time underthere.

Not only do I think its good, I think sonic should be thrown under several busses more often. He' s a 16 year old kid and doesn't know everthing, he's cocky and every once in a while, life whether its in the form of a friend or an enemy should literally clock him in the fucking face right under a buss. I think its a good thing for his character, and why boom was the most interesting interpretation of sonic in years. In an age where a lot of our protagonists are crying weird dorks, sonic having flaws would actually evolve him into more of a modern hero. And what better place to start than being wrong.

1 hour ago, Celestia said:

"Oh he should have just let Shadow do whatever" is stupid for a lot of reasons, one being that in context Eggman literally didn't have his memories and was for all intents and purposes a different person. To the audience that obviously wasn't going to stick but that doesn't really matter for the characters. If Shadow had done it it mostly would have been for revenge at that point, and well he kinda already learned a lesson about that didn't he?

He learned the lesson of " don't punish everyone or people who aren't involved for the things that happened specifically to you " shadow in that moment and probably still now views eggman as a liability and is willing to off him if need be. Its not about revenge its a practicality situation, or pragmatism I suppose. And eggman having no memories is still kind of a hard sell. Also a bit of head canon here, I think shadow wanting to do it means a lot more than everyone else wanting to do it. No matter how bad eggman is, the reason shadow is awake right now is because of eggman, the reason that shadow healed as fast as he did is because of eggman. Shadow's the kind of guy who's willing to hang out with you despite bad guy or former bad guy status if you are truly down. So I think the thing flynn was for, even though I think its a bad premise to begin with and I sort of agree with you that shadow's past it, is that shadow saying keeping him around is a bad idea means a lot more than anyone else saying it,

And then the book by vurtue of having to keep the status quo not only proved it was a hard sell, proved that shadow was right. Which is my problem with entire scenario in the first place which was " Hey Ian why did you write a story that by virtue of the brand will basically endorse  murder " . But he did and we are here I guess.

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3 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

I have a feeling the fact it’s a human/anthro romance may be an issue there.

Pretty sure Ian has said at least once that’s a subject he has no intention of going anywhere near.

I've never really gotten Ian's hang up with that. It's a completely alternate reality with anthropomorphic sentient animal people that are basically human. It's not different than a human in a relationship with an alien. 

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5 hours ago, Celestia said:

Yeah there's a difference between most death you see in kid's stuff and uh, straight up murdering someone, especially as one of the heroes.

I'm not really against Shadow wanting to end Eggman in theory but it kind of feels like it came out of nowhere? Like I know Forces just happened but Shadow wasn't exactly gunning for him before that despite...everything he had already done. The actual point is that obviously it wasn't going to happen considering what the series is generally like, and while there's discussion to be had there I mostly just don't like the idea of throwing Sonic under the bus for it. Like, I think he should (and probably does/will) feel bad about what happened but more so because he hadn't been keeping enough of a track of what was going on with Tinker.

"Oh he should have just let Shadow do whatever" is stupid for a lot of reasons, one being that in context Eggman literally didn't have his memories and was for all intents and purposes a different person. To the audience that obviously wasn't going to stick but that doesn't really matter for the characters. If Shadow had done it it mostly would have been for revenge at that point, and well he kinda already learned a lesson about that didn't he?

Mr. Tinker is a glorious soul and the world is poorer now that he's gone.

R.I.P
Mr. Tinker
2018~2018

Anyway, I tend to agree. I don't have a problem with the subject being brought up and I found the conflict interesting as a specific way to interpret the differences between Sonic and Shadow. Though, personally, I've always viewed Shadow as someone who had a bit of respect for Eggman, even if they technically weren't on the same side. That's probably because in the age of the games' stories being a bit more consistent than they are now, Shadow would always refer to him as "The Doctor" and actively seek him out when he needed to talk. Even in Sonic 06, they fight at the start of his story but then later, they're shown casually having a chat in his train. Shadow shows up and Eggman's reaction isn't hostile like it is with Sonic. He just sits in his chair and goes "Oh. It's you. So what do you want now?" 

Even though I enjoyed the issues in question, if it were me, I probably would have given the role of wanting to off Eggman to Omega. The guy who actually wants to off Eggman. Then Sonic comes to some sort of compromise with him about a loophole concerning the fact that since he's Mr. Tinker, technically Eggman is dead. And then Omega backs off reluctantly but promises to burn him alive if he ever returns to normal. Or something. Have Shadow be there to get his introduction out of the way as he'll have his chance to shine in the Metal Master Overlord thing. And Rouge's role is the same. It's always great seeing her play the manipulator. 

That's assuming they could even use Omega though. I don't know what restrictions they have or had but he's clearly okay to use in some eventual capacity if they were given the okay to put him on one of the variant covers. 

As for Sonic, the only thing I feel he (and the others by extension) did wrong was leave him in a position to get kidnapped... but then again, they were dealing with Mr. Roberto Overlord at the time so whatever.

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I would make the argument that despite dealing with the overlord you still need people to watch him. Eggman is dangerous and if you are gonna keep him around, you gotta make precautions and there wasn't any excuse for that. While Omega wanting to kill eggman is something that makes sense, I would like to state again I think the idea of it was, shadow's pragmatic. Even if I don't think the story is good, I get the idea.

That said there's actually a very funny way, they could could flip that story in a way that pulls the wool over all of our eyes. Hopefully Ian flynn remembers the diction used in that story, or lack their off. As for rouge, whatever shadow is rant or whatever is coming, she probably she be pointed at for being partially at fault for this too.

Or it wont get acknowledged it wasn't that good of a story in the first place and it will be quickly moved past and sonic will look like kinda of a sociopath

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34 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Or it wont get acknowledged it wasn't that good of a story in the first place and it will be quickly moved past and sonic will look like kinda of a sociopath

Quote

Wants to give second chances=sociopath

Okay.

35 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I would make the argument that despite dealing with the overlord you still need people to watch him. Eggman is dangerous and if you are gonna keep him around, you gotta make precautions and there wasn't any excuse for that. While Omega wanting to kill eggman is something that makes sense, I would like to state again I think the idea of it was, shadow's pragmatic. Even if I don't think the story is good, I get the idea.

 

Why not have Omega stick around then? That would also be why he doesn't participate in the final battle. 

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Or just hire some Resistence soldiers to watch over him.

I mean, Rough and Tumble would have beaten them up and took Eggman anyway but... eh.

By the way, I gotta reiterate just how much I love Sonic in this comic. I was worried when I heard Ian was back because I thought he was gonna play up "the jerk" over "the fun" but its been the total opposite and I couldn't be more grateful. He's actually cool when he's so chill and not such a try hard. 

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3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Okay.

Why not have Omega stick around then? That would also be why he doesn't participate in the final battle. 

That was sonic's responsibility to figure that out. And we don't know where omega is.

2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

By the way, I gotta reiterate just how much I love Sonic in this comic. I was worried when I heard Ian was back because I thought he was gonna play up "the jerk" over "the fun" but its been the total opposite and I couldn't be more grateful. He's actually cool when he's so chill and not such a try hard. 

People writing sonic to be a horrible asshole I feel don't get the character, or don't care about teh characters he's interact with enough to not write him that way. So yeah i'm glad he's not that

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