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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

By recurring enemy, I refer to Rough and Tumble, Metal Sonic, Eggman, or Starlight, as those have been the recurring villains of this series thus far. 

I know what you meant, but they've already come back. Rough and Tumble already managed to...wait, Starline didn't get to fight Sonic a second time yet.

Oh, I get it.

Ok.

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10 minutes ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

It ends up being a difficult topic to speak of. I can appreciate the story of a location suddenly being relevant as it relates to the battle at hand, and a location where no story is told, but the state of the area tells you something definitely happened. But a throwaway "There was a battle that happened here! Too bad you missed it" feels cheap, a weak attempt at world building.

Those are just my personal thoughts. It may not apply for you or for others.

I think my problem with it is as you said - it's just cheap. Just saying something happened here is kind of a random piece of exposition as a info dump does nothing but just try to take pretty bland locations and add some story importance to them. It's just some random cave network with a computer in it, yet this is meant to be the place of an important battle scene just because really.

Like, what if instead of just some random cave, Sonic and Amy were breaking into the ruined remains of Eggman's lair after Forces? As in the lair that's at the end of Mortar Canyon that also housed the generator for Infinite? Or even if they were so hell-bent on using this cave system, could they not have at least tried to give it more flare so it stands out? There's a reason show, don't tell is a thing. For a cave that housed a huge battle supposedly, there's very little remains of that battle, bar the scrapped computer that randomly works.

Like, what if there was tons of Eggman memorabilia around the cave, to show it off as a former Egg Prison, and to show some of the Eggman ego that was lacking in Forces proper? What if there was broken and dusty Wispons to empathise the soldiers who were lost during the attack on the prison? What if there was a few random cells embedded in the caves with some scratched numbers or something to show off the prisoners and how long they were here? Or even a simple one - why not show off some broken Badnik scraps to show the aftermath of this supposed big battle?

Instead of Amy having to just randomly say "this random cave was the scene of a big battle", why not have her seemingly saddened when beginning the journey, but insisting she was alright, whilst Sonic saw all of the damage left over from the battle. Following that, Sonic says something along the lines of "I wonder what kinda party Eggy held in here", only for Amy to confirm to him that this was the scene of such a large battle.

Not only would it be adding a little something to Amy, being forced to put on a brave face coming back to the scene of a large battle where they lost many people, but it also gives this cave network a decent enough flare that would make it memorable enough to count as world-building, instead of just being a cave with a computer inside of it.

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5 minutes ago, Polkadi~♪ said:

But a throwaway "There was a battle that happened here! Too bad you missed it" feels cheap, a weak attempt at world building.

Those are just my personal thoughts. It may not apply for you or for others.

 

That kinda feels like you are painting the situation in an unfair light. Taken at face value, this also doubles as confirmation that the leftovers of Sonic's friends where at least somewhat capable during his extended absence. This nameless battle was the site of a Resistance victory after all. While it is made very clear the big picture was a lost cause without their blue champion, it is very refreshing to know that at the very least a collection of heroes was enough to stem the Eggman tide in at least 1 fight - instead of being automatically routed at every turn just because they are short 1 speedster. Thats kind of important to note isn't it?

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20 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

That kinda feels like you are painting the situation in an unfair light. Taken at face value, this also doubles as confirmation that the leftovers of Sonic's friends where at least somewhat capable during his extended absence. This nameless battle was the site of a Resistance victory after all. While it is made very clear the big picture was a lost cause without their blue champion, it is very refreshing to know that at the very least a collection of heroes was enough to stem the Eggman tide in at least 1 fight - instead of being automatically routed at every turn just because they are short 1 speedster. Thats kind of important to note isn't it?

It is, and I wish it could be expanded upon. A site with a story can be interesting, if it's dared to be shown. If it's the site of a Resistance victory in a battle, why not show this? Wispons spawled about would be a good start.

To say something happened, I'm not given any reason to believe this when there is nothing to indicate that anything happened at all.

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26 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

That kinda feels like you are painting the situation in an unfair light. Taken at face value, this also doubles as confirmation that the leftovers of Sonic's friends where at least somewhat capable during his extended absence. This nameless battle was the site of a Resistance victory after all. While it is made very clear the big picture was a lost cause without their blue champion, it is very refreshing to know that at the very least a collection of heroes was enough to stem the Eggman tide in at least 1 fight - instead of being automatically routed at every turn just because they are short 1 speedster. Thats kind of important to note isn't it?

Gonna have to side with Polkadi, since I always prefered the approach of "show, don't tell".

They could at least had thrown a few flashback panels of that major battle, as Amy narrates Sonic what she and the others went through.

Anyway, I wonder how much longer will the comic be making these callbacks to Forces? You'd think that after the last major arc, they would move on.

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1 minute ago, Skull Leader said:

Gonna have to side with Polkadi, since I always prefered the approach of "show, don't tell".

They could at least had thrown a few flashback panels of that major battle, as Amy narrates Sonic what she and the others went through.

Anyway, I wonder how much longer will the comic be making these callbacks to Forces? You'd think that after the last major arc, they would move on.

How do you move on from a global war?

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

How do you move on from a global war?

You just don't talk about it?

It's not like a fictional work has any obligation to follow on the events like in real life. I mean, this is a franchise where the moon is blown to pieces and next week, it's right there in the sky without a scratch.

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Flashbacks are hardly the ideal form of show, don't tell.

Just better visual presentation is all that's needed.

Why not? The only difference is that you see things in sepia tones. At least it would beat that lone helmet that is thrown to imply some poor chump took the room temperature challenge.

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

 

Although honestly, I'm beginning to wonder how far this arc could even go in terms of story telling. We already know if Sonic doesn't run fast, then he'll end up turning into a robot, but what can you do with that? Maybe an issue or two where Eggman tries to put up traps to force Sonic to stop running, or an issue where Tails and co have to find a cure for him, but otherwise, what else can really be done with Sonic more or less out of commission due to him being forced to run forever? Will we just get an issue where Sonic is cured and then they have to deal with curing nameless villages and that's it

Maybe he runs so fast that he's able to manipulate time within his body so that the virus will never activate because it can't keep up with him?

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31 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

You just don't talk about it?

It's not like a fictional work has any obligation to follow on the events like in real life. I mean, this is a franchise where the moon is blown to pieces and next week, it's right there in the sky without a scratch.

 

That had a quick fix and/or easy turnaround though.

This is something where a lot of combatants took up arms, were taken prisoner, got mindscrewed and/or  killed over the course of about 2/3s of a year. You're gonna have to address aspects of it at some point.

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43 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

You just don't talk about it?

It's not like a fictional work has any obligation to follow on the events like in real life. I mean, this is a franchise where the moon is blown to pieces and next week, it's right there in the sky without a scratch

That works for the games (depending on who you ask), but for a comic book with continuity it would be weird to just pretend six months of war didn't happen. Even if it was in a game that wasn't very well received. Isn't one of the draws of the comics that they acknowledge the past more than the games do?

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

That kinda feels like you are painting the situation in an unfair light. Taken at face value, this also doubles as confirmation that the leftovers of Sonic's friends where at least somewhat capable during his extended absence. This nameless battle was the site of a Resistance victory after all. While it is made very clear the big picture was a lost cause without their blue champion, it is very refreshing to know that at the very least a collection of heroes was enough to stem the Eggman tide in at least 1 fight - instead of being automatically routed at every turn just because they are short 1 speedster. Thats kind of important to note isn't it?

Because it's kind of meaningless lip service. Issues 9, 10, and 11 prove forces is kind of an impossibility scenario

So it's basically saying "remembered when we all sucked and was useless"

25 minutes ago, Razule said:

That works for the games (depending on who you ask), but for a comic book with continuity it would be weird to just pretend six months of war didn't happen. Even if it was in a game that wasn't very well received. Isn't one of the draws of the comics that they acknowledge the past more than the games do?

No it wouldn't in this case, because the events of forces don't happen with any consistency. They occur for.....reasons,  the plot beats happen because they need to happen, resulting in nothing and no one being worth while, or just missing in some cases.

All that combined with infinite not showing up, and the protagonist not being a thing. You might as well not tell that story. With out the protagonist,  it's sonic taking solo credit for shit he didn't help with. And without infinite, it's just eggman and they are more than capable. And issue 9, 10 and 11 prove they are more that capable with infinite there too.

Forces events just happen and shit on the cast, even sonic. So it's just essentially going "remember that time we all sucked" and no, I don't want to. You are more interesting than that Amy, all of you are. And if official stuff is starting to avoid infinite and forces like the goddamn plague, maybe the comic should read the room. There's nothing to gain there

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28 minutes ago, Razule said:

That works for the games (depending on who you ask), but for a comic book with continuity it would be weird to just pretend six months of war didn't happen. Even if it was in a game that wasn't very well received. Isn't one of the draws of the comics that they acknowledge the past more than the games do?

We're talking Sonic, where months, if not even years can pass without the characters ever growing in age. The book shouldn't try to enforce a strict continuity as if it were a chronicle.

Personally, I wish the book could start distancing itself from Forces, and not because of it being a bad game, but because I feel this is one of the things that can drag on forever and even hold back the narrative, making it always have something to do with this great war that happened months ago... Not to mention making the game characters again turning into some kind of ensemble of heroes instead of them having their own lives and personal goals that just so happen to cross paths with Sonic.

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6 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

We're talking Sonic, where months, if not even years can pass without the characters ever growing in age. The book shouldn't try to enforce a strict continuity as if it were a chronicle.

Personally, I wish the book could start distancing itself from Forces, and not because of it being a bad game, but because I feel this is one of the things that can drag on forever and even hold back the narrative, making it always have something to do with this great war that happened months ago... Not to mention making the game characters again turning into some kind of ensemble of heroes instead of them having their own lives and personal goals that just so happen to cross paths with Sonic.

While I can agree it can hold back narrative,  to the book's credit it stops the notion they are some ensamble quickly. Chaotix were there for pay, team dark are there own thing and no one still knows where shadow went for those 6 months. Silver is off doing other future stuff, knuckles is back at the m.e and the troops are non existant. Forces is lore, lore lore I don't like and I think makes the book worse,  but loose narrative framing.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

You just don't talk about it?

Ah, yes like how absolutely no one talks about either World War or the Korean War or Vietnam or the Gulf War or the War on Terror or any other conflict in history. 

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5 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Ah, yes like how absolutely no one talks about either World War or the Korean War or Vietnam or the Gulf War or the War on Terror or any other conflict in history. 

Hmm, what are those?

I'd like to know since no one ever talks about them.

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7 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

YoAlthough honestly, I'm beginning to wonder how far this arc could even go in terms of story telling. We already know if Sonic doesn't run fast, then he'll end up turning into a robot, but what can you do with that? Maybe an issue or two where Eggman tries to put up traps to force Sonic to stop running, or an issue where Tails and co have to find a cure for him, but otherwise, what else can really be done with Sonic more or less out of commission due to him being forced to run forever? Will we just get an issue where Sonic is cured and then they have to deal with curing nameless villages and that's it?

Spoiler

I have been wondering if:

A.) After Sonic gets infected, Tails isn't able to stop Sonic from becoming metal but is able to have Sonic keep his free will.

B.) After Sonic gets infected, he continues to help people until he runs out of time and eventually becomes Eggman's slave for a time

C.) In order to cure Sonic, they have to shrink down and enter his body to reprogram the virus and make a vaccine

I've also been wondering if the MV victims will get enhanced powers and abilities due to being robots.

 

6 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Going off Ryan and Static's quips, is anyone missing Badniks or Super Badniks?

Metal Sonic has been doing a good job of filling in the Super Badnik quota for now.

5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

No it wouldn't in this case, because the events of forces don't happen with any consistency. They occur for.....reasons,  the plot beats happen because they need to happen, resulting in nothing and no one being worth while, or just missing in some cases.

Who said that IDW's version of Forces happens the same way as the game?

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14 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:
  Reveal hidden contents

I have been wondering if:

A.) After Sonic gets infected, Tails isn't able to stop Sonic from becoming metal but is able to have Sonic keep his free will.

B.) After Sonic gets infected, he continues to help people until he runs out of time and eventually becomes Eggman's slave for a time

C.) In order to cure Sonic, they have to shrink down and enter his body to reprogram the virus and make a vaccine

I've also been wondering if the MV victims will get enhanced powers and abilities due to being robots.

 

Who said that IDW's version of Forces happens the same way as the game?

It has to, because the story ( or lack their of is really bad ) or its a different story. The story is bad in a particular way, and trying to change it to " Not bad " changes it to something different.

You make the characters competent? Infinite being a threat is illogical

You give infinite a new power set? Then that's just a different character

You remove infinite? Then its just eggman and that's baby shit for most of the entire cast

You try to explain parts of it? You have now given more detail than the actual story itself and effectively transformed the narrative into a different thing that might as well not be forces.

The story is bad in a way where no one does nothing untill the story decides its time for them to do a thing. Infinite and eggman's threatening is overstated, and only exists because nothing happens and no one does anything for 6 months.

With a competent cast, forces entire premise is unbelievable. Heck issues 9,10 and 11 of this book prove that.  And trying to change details about , just makes it another story entirely.

Edit: One last thing , ya'll keep saying " well it could be different " until the narrative states that it was different that's the only assumption we can make, that its the same story we experienced, untill we are given proof that its different

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Here's a sample pic of Tangle happy

D1gcQo7WkAAsxUd.jpg

Quote

Jennifer Hernandez on Twitter: Maybe I won’t get in trouble for sharing this tiny tidbit from something upcoming 🤫

 

Anyway...

58 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

It has to, because the story ( or lack their of is really bad ) or its a different story.

I mean, there's a reason that in the beginning of the jump from Archie to IDW, an emphasis was placed on the fact that this universe is "kind of, sort of" similar to the games.

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

You make the characters competent? Infinite being a threat is illogical

A character that can create an army of duplicates of other characters to fight for him and alternate reality is still a threat.

Saying that Infinite is not a threat is almost like saying Eggman is not a threat, since he helped to create Infinite.

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

You try to explain parts of it? You have now given more detail than the actual story itself and effectively transformed the narrative into a different thing that might as well not be forces.

...why is this bad again?

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

The story is bad in a way where no one does nothing untill the story decides its time for them to do a thing. Infinite and eggman's threatening is overstated, and only exists because nothing happens and no one does anything for 6 months.

The fact that Eggman still needed 6 months despite Infinite's resume to take over already tells me that the Resistance weren't doing "nothing".

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Edit: One last thing , ya'll keep saying " well it could be different " until the narrative states that it was different that's the only assumption we can make, that its the same story we experienced, untill we are given proof that its different

What evidence says this universe happens the same as in the game universe?

Especially when in this universe, a character in a Super State wasn't invincible and could be damaged by someone not in a Super State. This is unheard of in Archie and the Game Universe.

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I'm on the side that doesn't see any harm in simply mentioning the existance of battles from the war that happened. I don't really consider it a huge affront to just have stuff like that mentioned in a passing conversation. It's a little blurb that exisits to give minor context to the scene and set the mood. I'm not the sort that hangs onto every passing comment as some sort of anker to deep rooted lore that we're missing out on.

If there was something more there that we needed to know, we'd either get shown more or it'd be expounded upon. However, I feel it'd be a bit too restrictive of me to say that they're not allowed to just mention any random thing unless they always showed it to me. Perhaps if it actually felt like something that was being teased or dangled like a carrot and not just an expected passing comment about the fact that they did battle while Sonic was gone, I'd see the point in being upset but, as is, its just harmless flavor text.

Had I not been on here, I wouldn't have expected it to be something that got this much attention. 

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In terms of "when will the comic stop referring to Forces?", I expect that when the next mainline game in the series is announced, we'll see a gradual pivot in the direction of whatever that's about.

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1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Especially when in this universe, a character in a Super State wasn't invincible and could be damaged by someone not in a Super State. This is unheard of in Archie and the Game Universe.

Didn't something like that happen in Sonic 3?

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