Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

...which is the right one???

[Big Panda]

Dunno. I was just pointing out that Amazon had a different release date is all =p

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Jojo reference? 

How in the world did I guess that?

[Eurisko]

2 hours ago, Ellipsis-Ultima said:

...which is the right one???

Forbidden Planet is saying the 26th of June. They’re normally accurate.

[Bowbowis]

The Deadly Six... Honestly, I would rather they just disappear entirely. I could justify bringing back other Sonic villains. Even Mephelies or Black Doom, reviled as they are, at least have potential to create interesting scenarios by virtue of being a manipulative, shape-shifting, time traveling, demigod and an alien warlord respectively. The Deadly Six are just so... nothing. They're nothing characters, with nothing powers, from a nothing setting, with a nothing background, conceived as part of a nothing plot, as told in a nothing game. Also, their designs stick out like a sore thumb.

I guess, if you held a gun to my head and demanded I write a story with the Deadly Six, I'd probably use the homunculi from Fullmetal Alchemist as a template, since they're a good example of how to write a group of quirky villains who are compelling, likable, and threatening despite each being built off of a one word description. Plus if you squint, you can almost map what little personality the Zeti to the seven deadly sins:

Zavok = Wrath

Zazz = (Blood) Lust (Contrary to popular belief, the sin of lust is not exclusively about sex but excessive desire in general. Basically the immaterial equivalent of greed.)

Zomom = Gluttony

Zeena  = Pride

Zor = Sloth

Zik = Envy (of youth)?

Then add a Zugo or something for greed. After all, everything else in Sonic's universe comes in sets of seven, so why not?

Still, that's not so much building off what the Deadly Six have as it is trying to retroactively map what's there to some motif or organizing principle and building off that. In which case it would be simpler to just create new characters from whole-cloth or re-purpose existing characters for the same role. I mean, if you just want a group of quirky, non-Eggman related bad guys to beat-up, the Hooligans and the Babylon Rogues already exist.

[Heckboy]

The Deadly Six are amazing and should appear in everything just to annoy everyone.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Heckboy said:

The Deadly Six are amazing and should appear in everything just to annoy everyone.

Take this ideology to pretty much any characters who get overblown negative reactions.

Is pretty good.

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

The Deadly Six... Honestly, I would rather they just disappear entirely. I could justify bringing back other Sonic villains. Even Mephelies or Black Doom, reviled as they are, at least have potential to create interesting scenarios by virtue of being a manipulative, shape-shifting, time traveling, demigod and an alien warlord respectively.

I really can't agree. Mephiles only ever had one (very poorly explained) motivation; he's useless outside of it. Plus they'd have to nerf him hard or write him like shit, considering how game-breaking time travel should be. And Doom's at least as generic as the D6; he's just your bog standard invading alien, he's got nothing going beyond being evil and having a lot of fodder to throw at the heroes.

1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

Also, their designs stick out like a sore thumb.

Man and Doom's doesn't? He's some muddy-colored legless cultist with a puckered butthole for a mouth. Mephiles can pass but that's because he's a literal recolor half the time. The D6's designs aren't stellar but I'd say they're way more in line with Sonic character standards than most other villains have been. Simple shapes, saturated colors, a lot of shared features that unite them as a species despite vastly different body types...

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

The Deadly Six... Honestly, I would rather they just disappear entirely. I could justify bringing back other Sonic villains. Even Mephelies or Black Doom, reviled as they are, at least have potential to create interesting scenarios by virtue of being a manipulative, shape-shifting, time traveling, demigod and an alien warlord respectively. The Deadly Six are just so... nothing. They're nothing characters, with nothing powers, from a nothing setting, with a nothing background, conceived as part of a nothing plot, as told in a nothing game. Also, their designs stick out like a sore thumb.

I guess, if you held a gun to my head and demanded I write a story with the Deadly Six, I'd probably use the homunculi from Fullmetal Alchemist as a template, since they're a good example of how to write a group of quirky villains who are compelling, likable, and threatening despite each being built off of a one word description. Plus if you squint, you can almost map what little personality the Zeti to the seven deadly sins:

Zavok = Wrath

Zazz = (Blood) Lust (Contrary to popular belief, the sin of lust is not exclusively about sex but excessive desire in general. Basically the immaterial equivalent of greed.)

Zomom = Gluttony

Zeena  = Pride

Zor = Sloth

Zik = Envy (of youth)?

Then add a Zugo or something for greed. After all, everything else in Sonic's universe comes in sets of seven, so why not?

Still, that's not so much building off what the Deadly Six have as it is trying to retroactively map what's there to some motif or organizing principle and building off that. In which case it would be simpler to just create new characters from whole-cloth or re-purpose existing characters for the same role. I mean, if you just want a group of quirky, non-Eggman related bad guys to beat-up, the Hooligans and the Babylon Rogues already exist.

That was a general theory about them when the game was being promoted, wasn't it?

I will say that Zik being Envy is one I don't recall thinking of myself, but I suppose it could work as a subtler representation and/or a hint as to why he founded the group in the first place. Also, I kinda assumed Zavok and Zazz were the other way around, but I suppose it'd work both ways.

1 hour ago, Heckboy said:

The Deadly Six are amazing and should appear in everything just to annoy everyone.

I would for one would still love for them to stick around and appear from time to time, but that still comes with the caveat of actually using them in good, fun and/or interesting ways.

26 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Take this ideology to pretty much any characters who get overblown negative reactions.

Is pretty good.

Uh, sure, let's go with that.

[Shadowlax]

I think doom is a pretty neat design, but yeah mephilies sucks and wasn't a great villain. Not accusing anyone of anything, much like silver I think the character gets away with some favorability in the fanbase. Not because the character is actual quality, but because its standing beside a more interesting character. For silver that's blaze ( and shadow for a time ) and for mephilies its shadow. Mephilies isn't good, shadow just has a good story in the game and he happens to be apart of. You could replace mephilies with a ham sandwhich and for the most part it would be the same narrative.

 

D6 sucks , but mephilies is still also really bad

[Marco9966]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I really can't agree. Mephiles only ever had one (very poorly explained) motivation; he's useless outside of it. Plus they'd have to nerf him hard or write him like shit, considering how game-breaking time travel should be. And Doom's at least as generic as the D6; he's just your bog standard invading alien, he's got nothing going beyond being evil and having a lot of fodder to throw at the heroes.

Man and Doom's doesn't? He's some muddy-colored legless cultist with a puckered butthole for a mouth. Mephiles can pass but that's because he's a literal recolor half the time. The D6's designs aren't stellar but I'd say they're way more in line with Sonic character standards than most other villains have been. Simple shapes, saturated colors, a lot of shared features that unite them as a species despite vastly different body types...

Chaos was the perfect middle ground.

Should have made their designs closer to him.

[StaticMania]

I think Zavok is the most "out of place", he's just too spiky.

Rather he'd just be the muscle and keep the spiky mouth, but lose it everywhere else.

Also lose the ponytail, that really sticks out.

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I think Zavok is the most "out of place", he's just too spiky.

Rather he'd just be the muscle and keep the spiky mouth, but lose it everywhere else.

If they had armors they wouldnt look so out of place. They have no texture

Sonic doesnt need texture cuz its fur.

And Vector actually has reptilian textures, so the demons should have these too.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Chaos was the perfect middle ground.

Should have made their designs closer to him.

Honestly Chaos 0 and the D6 aren't all that different in their designs. Swap the water textures for patterns in line with the D6's and throw some horns and spiked bracelets on and he'd pass for a Zeti well enough.

[StaticMania]

They have texture, what?

The only part of their bodies that looks like it doesn't is their color.

[Marco9966]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Honestly Chaos 0 and the D6 aren't all that different in their designs. Swap the water textures for patterns in line with the D6's and throw some horns and spiked bracelets on and he'd pass for a Zeti well enough.

All the zeti need is some texture and they would be great.

Imagine if Chaos was all just saturated blue and not textured.

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Imagine if Chaos was all just saturated blue and not textured.

He would look like he does in SA2.

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I really can't agree. Mephiles only ever had one (very poorly explained) motivation; he's useless outside of it. Plus they'd have to nerf him hard or write him like shit, considering how game-breaking time travel should be.

Naw, Mephiles was cool. One of the more entertaining alternative antagonists, actually.

But yeah, I also perfectly understand why keeping him around wasn't really feasible in inception.

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 And Doom's at least as generic as the D6; he's just your bog standard invading alien, he's got nothing going beyond being evil and having a lot of fodder to throw at the heroes.

 

Eh, I'd say the Zeti(and Lost World in general) are more a matter of being collectively more muddled in their ...well, combined fundamentals.

16 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man and Doom's doesn't? He's some muddy-colored legless cultist with a puckered butthole for a mouth. Mephiles can pass but that's because he's a literal recolor half the time. 

Is that a mouth?  

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The D6's designs aren't stellar but I'd say they're way more in line with Sonic character standards than most other villains have been. Simple shapes, saturated colors, a lot of shared features that unite them as a species despite vastly different body types...

Yeah, that's something else I realized: the Deadly Six seem primarily designed to emulate the sort of villains you'd see in the Classic era. 

[Marco9966]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The only part of their bodies that looks like it doesn't is their color.

Which is the part that needs texture

[StaticMania]

Why does it need that?

They can be all smooth like, they're aliens...it's all swell.

[Marco9966]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Why does it need that?

They can be all smooth like, they're aliens...it's all swell.

Look at Zavok and Vector. You might the difference in texutre is minimal, but it makes a big difference honestly.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

All the zeti need is some texture and they would be great.

I don't know why they need any more texture than they already have. You said before Sonic can get away with it because he has fur but...real fur has distinct texture to it. Sonic has minimal texture because he's a highly stylized cartoon character, not because he's furry, and the D6 are likewise.

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Look at Zavok and Vector. You might the difference in texutre is minimal, but it makes a big difference honestly.

Crocodiles are well known for having very gnarly scales; Vector's are extremely toned down in comparison. The D6 aren't crocodiles, there's no reason to expect them to have the same sort of scaliness as a crocodile.

[DabigRG]

29 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I really can't agree. Mephiles only ever had one (very poorly explained) motivation; he's useless outside of it. Plus they'd have to nerf him hard or write him like shit, considering how game-breaking time travel should be.

Naw, Mephiles was cool. One of the more entertaining alternative antagonists, actually.

But yeah, I also perfectly understand why keeping him around wasn't really feasible in inception.

29 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 And Doom's at least as generic as the D6; he's just your bog standard invading alien, he's got nothing going beyond being evil and having a lot of fodder to throw at the heroes.

 

Eh, I'd say the Zeti(and Lost World in general) are more a matter of being collectively more muddled in their ...well, combined fundamentals.

29 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man and Doom's doesn't? He's some muddy-colored legless cultist with a puckered butthole for a mouth. Mephiles can pass but that's because he's a literal recolor half the time. 

Is that a mouth?  

29 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The D6's designs aren't stellar but I'd say they're way more in line with Sonic character standards than most other villains have been. Simple shapes, saturated colors, a lot of shared features that unite them as a species despite vastly different body types...

Yeah, that's something else I realized: the Deadly Six seem primarily designed to emulate the sort of villains you'd see in the Classic era. 

6 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Look at Zavok and Vector. You might the difference in texutre is minimal, but it makes a big difference honestly.

...What a clusterfuck of a cast.

10 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Why does it need that?

They can be all smooth like, they're aliens...it's all swell.

Um, ACtually, they're Yokai--Oni, to be exact.

 

32 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think doom is a pretty neat design, but yeah mephilies sucks and wasn't a great villain. Not accusing anyone of anything, much like silver I think the character gets away with some favorability in the fanbase. Not because the character is actual quality, but because its standing beside a more interesting character. For silver that's blaze ( and shadow for a time ) and for mephilies its shadow. Mephilies isn't good, shadow just has a good story in the game and he happens to be apart of. You could replace mephilies with a ham sandwhich and for the most part it would be the same narrative.

 

D6 sucks , but mephilies is still also really bad

Um...I suppose that's a way of looking at it?

[Shadowlax]

13 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Um...I suppose that's a way of looking at it?

I'm fond of characters who stand on their own merits I guess. Its why I like shadow and Knuckles so much, and its why what is happening to tails sort of disappointing me.Narrative merit has value to me and mephilies never really had any, to me anyway. If you think he's cool, thats cool.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm fond of characters who stand on their own merits I guess. Its why I like shadow and Knuckles so much, and its why what is happening to tails sort of disappointing me.Narrative merit has value to me and mephilies never really had any, to me anyway. If you think he's cool, thats cool.

Fair enough. 

Didn't take you for a KTE guy, I must say.