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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 minute ago, Silvereyes said:

I don't know what FCBD stands for, sorry. You mean the one in Sonic Super Special #15? I thought it was pretty rubbish honestly, Naugus was assumed dead, turns out he is alive, Sonic and him fight for a bit until Naugus is killed, for really reals this time. It felt like nothing was accomplished and felt very lacklustre for a "special" issue, the Sin City parody just making it more bizarre.

Free Comic Book Day.

He wasn't supposed to be dead, he was supposed to be sealed in the Zone of Silence.

But yeah, it wasn't that well regarded.

Oh shoot, was the Sin City thing in that same special? :joy: 

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8 hours ago, Silvereyes said:

Oh OK. I'm not sure Free Comic Book Day exists in the UK.

It's an international event. If you know a comic book store in the area, they might have done it. However, it's only once a year.

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Mnn, I'm having trouble getting into the IDW comic, honestly for a lot of the reasons other people have pointed out already.

It feels very much like a rushed advertisement and less of an actual story. The stories are tailored more around Sonic pursuing a fleeting plot than it is around the actual characters, and the relationships between the characters aren't fleshed out very well. Its very shallow, imo.

There's so much this series could touch on thats interesting, but isn't because its to eager to rush into a new story without actually building upon characters they have. I kind of felt like, perhaps there could have been more of an emotional impact between Mr.Tinker and the other characters had they not just rushed to get rid of him. And what about all the children and villagers who loved and believed in him? What about Tails? He did leave Sonic at a pivotal point in Forces. Do people treat him differently for that? Does he feel any underlying guilt or inadaquacy to be by his friend's side? I feel like the comic could have done a lot more to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps and plotholes regarding his depiction in Forces by adding more context to things. Same with Shadow and his potential difficulties living in a world that would likely assume he's some kind of traitor. Also, Amy's becoming more like Sally, but I fear in some of the wrong ways. I always thought she was a more interesting choice for a leader compared to Sally because of the fact she's younger, less experienced and flawed in various ways, with more room to see her actually grow. Instead it kind of feels like Ian's content with just putting her in this perpetual Sally 2.0 position with no fleshing out.

We don't need to know the pasts of these characters for them to be 'interesting', I don't think. But at the same time, the story's created so many subplots that can be exploited that are being ignored a because they're over-emphasizing Sonic pursuing the plot at the expense of the other characters and what personal issues could find them compelling.

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So I got a serious question. There's sop many people "Not feeling" the book or having trouble getting into it and that's fine not everyone's going to like any one piece of media but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

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22 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

So I got a serious question. There's sop many people "Not feeling" the book or having trouble getting into it and that's fine not everyone's going to like any one piece of media but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

 

I should add that I don't 'hate' IDW Sonic, and feel it, as a series it has potential. Hell I considered the idea of re-writing some of the initial issues just to showcase how much better it could have been with a bit of extra padding. So if nothing else, its inspirational. They're just not utilizing said potential because they're putting the plot over the characters people are paying to see. IDW needs to slow down on Sonic's globetrotting a bit so we can actually see him develop relationships with the cast and world-build. Actually focus on the character-based subplots both the games and comics themselves have introduced beyond a superficial level and I think they'd be a lot better off. I feel a lot more people would like it more if the writers took their time and slowed down as opposed to rushing things to get to the next objective. I've seen Ian's prior work and feel he's just not writing up to his potential that's all. Because I know he can do better than this.

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39 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

So I got a serious question. There's sop many people "Not feeling" the book or having trouble getting into it and that's fine not everyone's going to like any one piece of media but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

I like it. I couldn't get into Archie at all. IDW is everything I wanted and more. #6 is probably my favourite issue so far, because it shows a side to Sonic that we don't get to see too often.

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1 hour ago, Rosaleia said:

Mnn, I'm having trouble getting into the IDW comic, honestly for a lot of the reasons other people have pointed out already.

It feels very much like a rushed advertisement and less of an actual story. The stories are tailored more around Sonic pursuing a fleeting plot than it is around the actual characters, and the relationships between the characters aren't fleshed out very well. Its very shallow, imo.

There's so much this series could touch on thats interesting, but isn't because its to eager to rush into a new story without actually building upon characters they have. I kind of felt like, perhaps there could have been more of an emotional impact between Mr.Tinker and the other characters had they not just rushed to get rid of him. And what about all the children and villagers who loved and believed in him? What about Tails? He did leave Sonic at a pivotal point in Forces. Do people treat him differently for that? Does he feel any underlying guilt or inadaquacy to be by his friend's side? I feel like the comic could have done a lot more to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps and plotholes regarding his depiction in Forces by adding more context to things. Same with Shadow and his potential difficulties living in a world that would likely assume he's some kind of traitor. Also, Amy's becoming more like Sally, but I fear in some of the wrong ways. I always thought she was a more interesting choice for a leader compared to Sally because of the fact she's younger, less experienced and flawed in various ways, with more room to see her actually grow. Instead it kind of feels like Ian's content with just putting her in this perpetual Sally 2.0 position with no fleshing out.

We don't need to know the pasts of these characters for them to be 'interesting', I don't think. But at the same time, the story's created so many subplots that can be exploited that are being ignored a because they're over-emphasizing Sonic pursuing the plot at the expense of the other characters and what personal issues could find them compelling.

I see the problem. I have something similar. However, I think I know WHY the comic is this way.

It's because of SEGA.

I know people are tired of me complaining about the mandates, but they really can get in the way of storytelling. You see, in order to have any character development for the core cast, you have to get it through SEGA first.

The problem is, they don't like character development for the core cast, because branding shit or whatever. Ian might also be suffering from burnout after working on Sonic for all these years.

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3 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I see the problem. I have something similar. However, I think I know WHY the comic is this way.

It's because of SEGA.

I know people are tired of me complaining about the mandates, but they really can get in the way of storytelling. You see, in order to have any character development for the core cast, you have to get it through SEGA first.

The problem is, they don't like character development for the core cast, because branding shit or whatever. Ian might also be suffering from burnout after working on Sonic for all these years.

You might be right. And if thats true, I really do feel bad for Ian.

Your dealing with older execs that don't understand the current literary culture, They want Sonic to be this Mickey Mouse-esque character thats timeless when that doesn't sell anymore. People WANT character development. They WANT to see growth. Why is the average customer going to bother with Sonic when they can find this kind of thing elsewhere? Their biggest mistake was trying to making one consolidated story -- and with of all things the Japanese version, which didn't even sell in their own country. If they simply allowed other universes to exist like they did in the 90s with more freedom, mandates could still exist but Sonic could develop in different ways because no one series was representative of the others, and could end whenever, with others working simultaneously. There wouldn't be the pressure to conform and be 'timeless' like there is now.

Disney can afford to do these things with Mickey because:

1) They have a lot of different IPs that sell well unlike SEGA, so they don't need to rely as much on their mascot the way they used to.

2) He's aimed at small children and the pricetags for his merchandise is fairly cheap most of the time. Not so with SEGA and their Sonic games which are more than half $100 just to buy and play. When your asking for that kind of money, the quality has to be a lot better to encourage people to buy. And SEGA hasn't been keeping up with the times.

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3 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

Mnn, I'm having trouble getting into the IDW comic, honestly for a lot of the reasons other people have pointed out already.

It feels very much like a rushed advertisement and less of an actual story. The stories are tailored more around Sonic pursuing a fleeting plot than it is around the actual characters, and the relationships between the characters aren't fleshed out very well. Its very shallow, imo.

There's so much this series could touch on thats interesting, but isn't because its to eager to rush into a new story without actually building upon characters they have. I kind of felt like, perhaps there could have been more of an emotional impact between Mr.Tinker and the other characters had they not just rushed to get rid of him. And what about all the children and villagers who loved and believed in him? What about Tails? He did leave Sonic at a pivotal point in Forces. Do people treat him differently for that? Does he feel any underlying guilt or inadaquacy to be by his friend's side? I feel like the comic could have done a lot more to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps and plotholes regarding his depiction in Forces by adding more context to things. Same with Shadow and his potential difficulties living in a world that would likely assume he's some kind of traitor. Also, Amy's becoming more like Sally, but I fear in some of the wrong ways. I always thought she was a more interesting choice for a leader compared to Sally because of the fact she's younger, less experienced and flawed in various ways, with more room to see her actually grow. Instead it kind of feels like Ian's content with just putting her in this perpetual Sally 2.0 position with no fleshing out.

We don't need to know the pasts of these characters for them to be 'interesting', I don't think. But at the same time, the story's created so many subplots that can be exploited that are being ignored a because they're over-emphasizing Sonic pursuing the plot at the expense of the other characters and what personal issues could find them compelling.

First off, I more or less agree with your grips. Though you mention something I have failed to mention, which is tails. While forces aftermath would be genuinely interesting, we will get to why that didn't and problably wont happen in a bit. But at least in this story invovling tinker and metal sonic being let go, I find him being sort of complacent disappointing. One my favorite versions of tails was the pre-reboot version of him ( under flynn ) where he was kind of cynical. It was interesting, for someone so young because he was so smart his outlook on the world was kinda grim at times and even when they had their " maybe they should feel bad about eggman " arc tails was like " Nah dog that ain't it " . Having him here maybe argue with sonic learning he let eggman go or something because he doesn't actually agree because he's thinking about it more logically maybe he thinks he should put him in a jail or something. You could have done something interesting that shows they are a bit different in their personalities.

But that's likely not to happen, because sega. This is leading into the " Why sega isn't letting forces aftermath happen " thing. The transfer to post reboot from pre-reboot saw a lot of changes, to characters, places, motivations everything. Three characters that got hit really hard from the games ( that aren't the choatix because Espio and charmy got hit hella hard via character removal ) are Knuckles Tails and Shadow. All three of them sort of shifted closer to their in game incarnations. This isn't to suggest this is all bad, I'm a fan of shadow and good god pre-boot shadow is awful. And knuckles is a competent character with out all the other needless echidina's and crap story around. However tails just kind of lost... a lot of his gumption.  The characters to the characters were closer to what the games incarnations of them were, for better or for worse, and was clear then that sega wanted to an did have more control over the comic's content. 

Cut to now, and we are seeing the results of that. There's no aftermath for forces because sega doesn't want to acknowledge it. Forces is a game that hasn't been out longer than 2 years outside of the initial wave of merchandising and a mobile game has not really been mentioned nor its key villain infinite. However TSR has been out for like... a month and iizuka already said we might see dondan-pa. Its clear they want to move past forces, and the first step to that for them is to not acknowledge forces for quite some time. It would be interesting to see tails feel a way about " betraying sonic " or some of the former troops hate him for abandoning the cause. It would be interesting for people to feel fear or terror when seeing shadow because because his visage was used as a means to commit a genocide for 7 months. But they don't want to acknowledge forces , to the degree where in the issue shadow first shows up all the villagers who were there not but one and two issues ago and again at the first issue of this year, just magically vanish. Now I can't tell you what is or isn't a mandate in the comics officially , but that looks like a mandate if I ever seen one.

There's amy , who seemingly can reference forces but its primary in a " Its a thing that's done kinda of way " her character doesn't really have in any skin in the game in an aftermath kind of sense, same for eggman and even he just brushes forces in its entirety off as " Sonic and Shadow bodied infinite " .

So i agree with you and the answer is simply sonic team and sega. The issues with pacing and characters not getting to stew, will hopefully be fixed when more miniseries or a sonic universe substitute rolls around

2 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

You might be right. And if thats true, I really do feel bad for Ian.

Your dealing with older execs that don't understand the current literary culture, They want Sonic to be this Mickey Mouse-esque character thats timeless when that doesn't sell anymore. People WANT character development. They WANT to see growth. Why is the average customer going to bother with Sonic when they can find this kind of thing elsewhere? Their biggest mistake was trying to making one consolidated story -- and with of all things the Japanese version, which didn't even sell in their own country. If they simply allowed other universes to exist like they did in the 90s with more freedom, mandates could still exist but Sonic could develop in different ways because no one series was representative of the others, and could end whenever, with others working simultaneously. There wouldn't be the pressure to conform and be 'timeless' like there is now.

Disney can afford to do these things with Mickey because:

1) They have a lot of different IPs that sell well unlike SEGA, so they don't need to rely as much on their mascot the way they used to.

2) He's aimed at small children and the pricetags for his merchandise is fairly cheap most of the time. Not so with SEGA and their Sonic games which are more than half $100 just to buy and play. When your asking for that kind of money, the quality has to be a lot better to encourage people to buy. And SEGA hasn't been keeping up with the times.

I also agree with this and have made the arguement that sega trying to do what its doing with sonic in the modern age of even MLP having growth and story telling is backwards beyond belief. But I get the feeling that this is less sega's executives doing and moreso what sonic team wants to do with the character(s). On that same note to give a bit of hope, it does seem like they are interested in more of the " Adventure era " stuff again. Sort of having characters do things and change a bit, whether that takes we will have to see in the next game.

There is a part I don't agree with. I don't think having too many alt universes is good. I think they sort of consolidating it down to " classic " " Modern " and a third thing is fine. They want their characters to look good and consistent and to be more or less representative of what they want to present as. And Don't think they wanting to stick to this is contributing to the mascot problem, I think these are two seperate issues

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23 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

There is a part I don't agree with. I don't think having too many alt universes is good. I think they sort of consolidating it down to " classic " " Modern " and a third thing is fine. They want their characters to look good and consistent and to be more or less representative of what they want to present as. And Don't think they wanting to stick to this is contributing to the mascot problem, I think these are two seperate issues

 

"What they want...?"

This isn't simply about what SEGA 'wants'. For a company to survive its what the general consumers want and are willing to buy. And modern Sonic doesn't sell well to people outside the established fanbase. I'm not saying they need to get rid of it, but it shouldn't be the central story that everything revolves around. Thats what classic Sonic is for. They need to create new universes and stop with the timeless Sonic concept when again they have Classic, because it only adds unnecessary pressure to the series and forces it into a formula of writing that's outdated.

Not too many universes at once, of course. But I'm not particularly worried with SEGA doing that, because that costs money, so they'd have to limit by default, how many they had at a time. Just create new stories/lore/backstories for some of the characters and see what works. If it does, great. Continue and see how long it goes. If not, its onto the next. Why not bring back some of the old western concepts like SatAM/Archie and STC had to offer to a degree; things you knew were regarded well by the general public you were advertising to? We don't have to like them, but other people did and it gave the company money. So long as they stay in their lane, I don't see the problem.

 

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1 hour ago, Rosaleia said:

 

"What they want...?"

This isn't simply about what SEGA 'wants'. For a company to survive its what the general consumers want and are willing to buy. And modern Sonic doesn't sell well to people outside the established fanbase. I'm not saying they need to get rid of it, but it shouldn't be the central story that everything revolves around. Thats what classic Sonic is for. They need to create new universes and stop with the timeless Sonic concept when again they have Classic, because it only adds unnecessary pressure to the series and forces it into a formula of writing that's outdated.

Not too many universes at once, of course. But I'm not particularly worried with SEGA doing that, because that costs money, so they'd have to limit by default, how many they had at a time. Just create new stories/lore/backstories for some of the characters and see what works. If it does, great. Continue and see how long it goes. If not, its onto the next. Why not bring back some of the old western concepts like SatAM/Archie and STC had to offer to a degree; things you knew were regarded well by the general public you were advertising to? We don't have to like them, but other people did and it gave the company money. So long as they stay in their lane, I don't see the problem.

 

So I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But I feel like there are some flaws with what I feel you are saying. One " Modern sonic doesn't sell well to people outside the established fanbase " I would argue that it does, I would argue that that's most of the people buying modern sonic games now. More casual people people and casual fans. If you are a sonic fan of the adventure era you haven't got jack shit for years, why would even purchase that. And if you are a modern " modern " sonic fan the quality and gameplay styles and tone has jumped so much you might be a fan of one thing but not the other thing. And a lot of people have bowed out because of that. I think what most of the modern sonic buying base consists of. When good games like mania come out that's when even more casual folks and the nostalgia base comes out. Casual folks hear a good sonic game, the nostalgia base hears a good sonic game. And I firmly believe if they do an " Adventure Mania " and its good, people will come out in droves for that shit too.

I also think, to connect it back to the comics part of the discussion, is why this book is so successful. This book and the previous book mostly sold to casual people and children who go " Oh I remember sonic and co from the games " Flynn will tell you that himself. This book is a representation in its success that's the primary sonic audience, at least for this book. The book is regularly selling double or even triple the previous book and selling out multiple times. And this book is super close to the games, its an advertising arm for the games and the brand , all the characterizations for better or for worse are closer to game interpretation. There are no things like SatAM or STC in this book, and its wildly succesful. The moden sonic audience has no reference for these things, and no reverence for them. Only the characters, this is the timeless and consistent value that holds all these products together.

This is ontop of the various reasons why sega might not want to let sonic off the leash. The film, the dark era of the comics,  and sonic boom are all contributing factors to why they are so stingy on what they do. While the the sonic boom cartoon saw varying levels of success that brand schism as a whole was largely seen as a failure financially. Toys and Games not meeting what they wanted, and eventually the show. And there are a lot of people who are fond of the boom interpretations. The movie and dark period speak for themselves. They problably see the value that their characters have as a branding apparatus and want to keep the relatively similar to how they have worked in the past. You speak of " changing backstories and character lore untill it sticks " but sometimes those changes stick after you change it again. To give you an example, aquaman was "useless fishtalking guy " in the media until like the year before last. And that character had been around for decades and you basically had to argue with people why that character was even cool or valuable before.  They likely see how they somehow avoided all this with their own failures and don't even want to venture to deep down that hole again. I also hav a bit of a personal bias related to this specific thing, that we will get to in a bit.

So after all this you might think I have no interest in anything you are saying. Quite the opposite. I pretty much agree with all the stuff sonic needs to do, I mean Leave Sonic Satam and STC in the past because who cares people need to stop bringing those up they are in the sameplace as a sonic X a thing that worked for its time but its a different time. But different interpretations, lore characters , universes?Sure. While exicuted bad , i thinks sonic boom was a good idea.  I read comics, cape books, i'm used to that stuff. I can read Teen Titains and Young Justice and enjoy how different their cartoons are all the same. I would go further than you, and suggest there be different universes and types of universes and lore based around each character.

A " universe " focused around knuckles being a tresure hunter, Dope.

Expanding on blazes world and what she does in that world as a princess, nice.

A universe where tails's is sort of the protagonist and he battles eggman in sort of battles of technology , mech style. Awesome.

A shadow universe that's basically Devil May Cry but ... Alien DNA, Sure.  Heck Reboot the crap out of his back story to, its outdated and stilted as hell.

I'm totally with you on most of the things you are saying, but my argument at least initially is explaining why sega is doing what its doing and why as a fan I understand it and in some ways can't argue it because it makes sense.  With the other universes though, before we get that far we problably should get sonic, and particularly its side characters narratively out of a dumpster first. Before we can even sell the idea to you that an alt universe of these characters wouldn't be a sonic boom level dumpster fire.

The bias I mentioned, to keep it brief and while i'm kind of reluctant in some ways to argue with sega on this is ... well I like shadow. And Shadow as a character type is RIPE for people with... uh hot takes wanting to " fix " him or Make him " Ironic " or a myriad of other things that ultimately mean... less interesting. Even Ian Flynn tried to do this when he took over the book. Shadow in the comics , got good when he was closer to the games in the post reboot and even now despite my problems with him. ( Though don't let me speak to soon , he shows up again in a couple months) . Company oversight and restricts is what gets me the version of the character that I like , out of a guy who I think should be writing the games. I generally like flynn and it took company oversight  for him aswell. So it is hard for me to argue that this is a thing they should not do , when I am directly benefiting from it. Obviously Knuckles fans feel differently.

Obviously there are flaws in this bias , primary every writer is not and will not be Ian Flynn and aren't inclined to do such things and even I myself have seen good different ass takes on shadow on the net. However with my years of reading cape books,  I think i'm a allowed to be a smidge frightened at the prospects of someone really thinking they are some revolutionary writer like hickmen with his fantastic four run, aren't as cool as they think they are... simply put. And then that flub being ... what that character is , in the peoples mind for a long time. You don't know how glad I am the creepy " Nice guy " tails that was in the archie comic largely flew under the radar for general audiences.

This isn't to mention things like the film was is largely a representation of sonic being let way off the leash.

But despite all that , I generally agree with you.

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5 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I see the problem. I have something similar. However, I think I know WHY the comic is this way.

It's because of SEGA.

I know people are tired of me complaining about the mandates, but they really can get in the way of storytelling. You see, in order to have any character development for the core cast, you have to get it through SEGA first.

The problem is, they don't like character development for the core cast, because branding shit or whatever. Ian might also be suffering from burnout after working on Sonic for all these years.

For all the innumerable faults of the movie, at least it seems to be 75% outside of Sega’s control. But if the movie flunks then Sonic Team will probably use it as an excuse to tighten their death grip. The tighter they squeeze, the more fall through the cracks, ya know?

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6 hours ago, SBR2 said:

So I got a serious question. There's sop many people "Not feeling" the book or having trouble getting into it and that's fine not everyone's going to like any one piece of media but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

It's okay. I mean, it's a Sonic comic alright.

5 hours ago, Red said:

I like it. I couldn't get into Archie at all. IDW is everything I wanted and more. #6 is probably my favourite issue so far, because it shows a side to Sonic that we don't get to see too often.

Really now?

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6 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

It feels very much like a rushed advertisement and less of an actual story. The stories are tailored more around Sonic pursuing a fleeting plot than it is around the actual characters, and the relationships between the characters aren't fleshed out very well. Its very shallow, imo.

There's so much this series could touch on thats interesting, but isn't because its to eager to rush into a new story without actually building upon characters they have.

But at the same time, the story's created so many subplots that can be exploited that are being ignored a because they're over-emphasizing Sonic pursuing the plot at the expense of the other characters and what personal issues could find them compelling.

Eh, essentially. That's some fun and even intriguing bits here and there, but it's pretty streamlined overall.

6 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

I kind of felt like, perhaps there could have been more of an emotional impact between Mr.Tinker and the other characters had they not just rushed to get rid of him. And what about all the children and villagers who loved and believed in him? What about Tails? He did leave Sonic at a pivotal point in Forces. Do people treat him differently for that? Does he feel any underlying guilt or inadaquacy to be by his friend's side? I feel like the comic could have done a lot more to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps and plotholes regarding his depiction in Forces by adding more context to things. Same with Shadow and his potential difficulties living in a world that would likely assume he's some kind of traitor.

Perhaps.

The Tails thing, you can give or take.

But I do agree that Shadow is probably the character that has stunted the most from that issue, among others.

6 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

 Also, Amy's becoming more like Sally, but I fear in some of the wrong ways. I always thought she was a more interesting choice for a leader compared to Sally because of the fact she's younger, less experienced and flawed in various ways, with more room to see her actually grow. Instead it kind of feels like Ian's content with just putting her in this perpetual Sally 2.0 position with no fleshing out.

Sally was the leader in SatAM and Archie because she's the Princess and was the most cautious of the Freedom Fighters. Plus, I suppose no one in that, what, 4+ member group was able to take on that responsibility.

But yeah, Amy does somewhat fall into "we need a Sally" type territory, if only by necessity.

 

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6 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I see the problem. I have something similar. However, I think I know WHY the comic is this way.

It's because of SEGA.

I know people are tired of me complaining about the mandates, but they really can get in the way of storytelling. You see, in order to have any character development for the core cast, you have to get it through SEGA first.

The problem is, they don't like character development for the core cast, because branding shit or whatever. Ian might also be suffering from burnout after working on Sonic for all these years.

Based on the Bumblekast and the interviews, I'd say it's probably a little more of the latter than you'd think.

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

First off, I more or less agree with your grips. Though you mention something I have failed to mention, which is tails. While forces aftermath would be genuinely interesting, we will get to why that didn't and problably wont happen in a bit. But at least in this story invovling tinker and metal sonic being let go, I find him being sort of complacent disappointing. One my favorite versions of tails was the pre-reboot version of him ( under flynn ) where he was kind of cynical. It was interesting, for someone so young because he was so smart his outlook on the world was kinda grim at times and even when they had their " maybe they should feel bad about eggman " arc tails was like " Nah dog that ain't it " . Having him here maybe argue with sonic learning he let eggman go or something because he doesn't actually agree because he's thinking about it more logically maybe he thinks he should put him in a jail or something. You could have done something interesting that shows they are a bit different in their personalities.

You know what, you might be onto something there.

Tails is generally stuck between two specific modes without much combination or variation much of the time.

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

This isn't to suggest this is all bad, I'm a fan of shadow and good god pre-boot shadow is awful.

In what in particular, while you're on it?

This should be interesting.

4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Cut to now, and we are seeing the results of that. There's no aftermath for forces because sega doesn't want to acknowledge it. Forces is a game that hasn't been out longer than 2 years outside of the initial wave of merchandising and a mobile game has not really been mentioned nor its key villain infinite. However TSR has been out for like... a month and iizuka already said we might see dondan-pa. Its clear they want to move past forces, and the first step to that for them is to not acknowledge forces for quite some time. It would be interesting to see tails feel a way about " betraying sonic " or some of the former troops hate him for abandoning the cause. It would be interesting for people to feel fear or terror when seeing shadow because because his visage was used as a means to commit a genocide for 7 months. But they don't want to acknowledge forces , to the degree where in the issue shadow first shows up all the villagers who were there not but one and two issues ago and again at the first issue of this year, just magically vanish. Now I can't tell you what is or isn't a mandate in the comics officially , but that looks like a mandate if I ever seen one.

It's almost like Forces was a mad, yet cheap dead end story wise and probably shouldn't have happened, at least not the way it did.

 

 

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

. You don't know how glad I am the creepy " Nice guy " tails that was in the archie comic largely flew under the radar for general audiences.

 

Wait, what?

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3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Based on the Bumblekast and the interviews, I'd say it's probably a little more of the latter than you'd think.

You know what, you might be onto something there.

Tails is generally stuck between two specific modes without much combination or variation much of the time.

" i'm sonic's best friend and he does everything "

And "I am now sassy and can do things with the story allows it "

But that comic tails was like a neat mixture of both of those. He was sonic's friend, but he was also competent and could like give him shit if it was required

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

In what in particular, while you're on it?

This should be interesting.

 So I got two main issues with Pre-boot Shadow, well 3

1) He always felt connected to nothing ever ( This persisted in the reboot tbh )

2) Ian always felt like he was trying to " end " his character

3) For a time like many other characters under penders, he felt very out of character

So yeah, that.

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

It's almost like Forces was a mad, yet cheap dead end story wise and probably shouldn't have happened, at least not the way it did.

Yep

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

 

Wait, what?

Oh you don't remember tails's interact with fiona. You don't remember the time Fiona's grave sin was " Not wanting to be romantically involved with a child " said child who was acting fairly creepy and like he deserved her btw. And because of this grave sin, she was painted as the bad guy and actually made one. There's a lot of weird  shit in the pre-reboot and the mysogonistic handling of some of its themes were some of the worst of it

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11 hours ago, SBR2 said:

but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

I like it alot, I think the writing is good, all the artists and colourists are good, and it feels like the comic is building up more and more with each issue. But I also think the other reason I am enjoying it is that while the comic does have a bit of a slow pace, I feel confident that it is all going to pay off eventually and feel patient waiting for it.

Will be interesting to see how the Tangle and Whisper mini-series is received on here. It's only 4 issues, which should mean it has a far more brisk pace to it I would hope, maybe people will prefer that over the main book's 12 issue plotlines?

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10 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I see the problem. I have something similar. However, I think I know WHY the comic is this way.

It's because of SEGA.

I know people are tired of me complaining about the mandates, but they really can get in the way of storytelling. You see, in order to have any character development for the core cast, you have to get it through SEGA first.

The problem is, they don't like character development for the core cast, because branding shit or whatever. Ian might also be suffering from burnout after working on Sonic for all these years.

It's not Sega, at least not entirely. Read Ian's other books, like that Cosmo thing that lasted for five whole issues. He's written some good stuff, but his writing can be pretty mediocre. I really just think he's burnt out after 13 years of writing the same fucking series.

They need a new writer or co-writer. The mandates excuse really is bullshit when you realize other writers have done more with the characters in spite of these guidelines, the most recent example being the stories in the annual. You can have so many varied and fun stories with these characters that are totally in compliance with the mandates, but for some reason - either because of Ian or his editors or whatever - we get stuck with boring, decompressed-as-fuck arcs that just spin their wheels for a year until the rushed climax.

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40 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

" i'm sonic's best friend and he does everything "

And "I am now sassy and can do things with the story allows it "

But that comic tails was like a neat mixture of both of those. He was sonic's friend, but he was also competent and could like give him shit if it was required

 

Uh, more like Sonic's kid idolizer and his hypercompetent sidekick, but I suppose your second works as a bit of a recent third. 

 

41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

 So I got two main issues with Pre-boot Shadow, well 3

1) He always felt connected to nothing ever ( This persisted in the reboot tbh )

2) Ian always felt like he was trying to " end " his character

3) For a time like many other characters under penders, he felt very out of character

So yeah, that.

Yep

 

Oh.

 

I was wrong.

41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Oh you don't remember tails's interact with fiona. You don't remember the time Fiona's grave sin was " Not wanting to be romantically involved with a child " said child who was acting fairly creepy and like he deserved her btw. And because of this grave sin, she was painted as the bad guy and actually made one. There's a lot of weird  shit in the pre-reboot and the mysogonistic handling of some of its themes were some of the worst of it

Oh, that unfortunate connotation.

To be a tad fair, Fiona was made a villain because Mr. Flynn thought it'd be more interesting to play into her mercenary background and her previous umbrage against Sonic compared to...whatever she was actually doing before that point. Using Tails' redirected feelings towards her was just an convenient way to play up her decision to do so alongside Scourge. 

 

With that said, oof. 

41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

" i'm sonic's best friend and he does everything "

And "I am now sassy and can do things with the story allows it "

But that comic tails was like a neat mixture of both of those. He was sonic's friend, but he was also competent and could like give him shit if it was required

 So I got two main issues with Pre-boot Shadow, well 3

1) He always felt connected to nothing ever ( This persisted in the reboot tbh )

2) Ian always felt like he was trying to " end " his character

3) For a time like many other characters under penders, he felt very out of character

So yeah, that.

Yep

Oh you don't remember tails's interact with fiona. You don't remember the time Fiona's grave sin was " Not wanting to be romantically involved with a child " said child who was acting fairly creepy and like he deserved her btw. And because of this grave sin, she was painted as the bad guy and actually made one. There's a lot of weird  shit in the pre-reboot and the mysogonistic handling of some of its themes were some of the worst of it

.

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15 hours ago, SBR2 said:

So I got a serious question. There's sop many people "Not feeling" the book or having trouble getting into it and that's fine not everyone's going to like any one piece of media but I'm curious does anyone on here like the IDW comic?

Love it myself, the first year does seem a bit on the rushed side but it got better and better, the art is consistent good and I love the characters interaction and the zombie-robot plot is pretty amazing!

 

I get confused when people are saying Idw Amy is too much like Sally or Tangle is a ""Sally Copy"" There was more to Sally then just being a leader type character, she guided the characters, Amy on the other hand just took a leading organizing role, but isnt telling Sonic or Tails what to do during battle,  and Tangle and Sally are nothing alike

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