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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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On 6/9/2019 at 10:05 PM, Heckboy said:

It's not Sega, at least not entirely. Read Ian's other books, like that Cosmo thing that lasted for five whole issues. He's written some good stuff, but his writing can be pretty mediocre. I really just think he's burnt out after 13 years of writing the same fucking series.

They need a new writer or co-writer. The mandates excuse really is bullshit when you realize other writers have done more with the characters in spite of these guidelines, the most recent example being the stories in the annual. You can have so many varied and fun stories with these characters that are totally in compliance with the mandates, but for some reason - either because of Ian or his editors or whatever - we get stuck with boring, decompressed-as-fuck arcs that just spin their wheels for a year until the rushed climax.

It really only lasted five issues? I thought it was supposed to be ten?

I will say that while I don't think it's quite that bad, this Sonic book is suffering from a combination of being stuck in a routine without too much to vary or spice it up beyond face value. The Annual is only such a standout because it completely breaks away from all that and just does whatever with whoever, with the Sonic Fan Club as the more avant garde.

Another writer or two would indeed be nice to have around from time to time as well, as probably should've been the case earlier on. Heck, it'd be cool if Mr. Flynn pulled a Toriyama occasionally.

10 hours ago, Heckboy said:

It was also not good or memorable in any way. It's forgettable as a sci-fi book, forgettable as a comedy book, and forgettable as a kiddie adventure book. Ian isn't good with comedy (by his own admission, to be fair), so putting him on a comedy sci-fi book was a bad idea. It seems like something they threw out there to fill the action-adventure void left by Sonic and Mega Man getting the axe, and hoped that Flynn and Yardley's names would have some pull with the former Sonic/MM crowd.

 

Was it?

I do have the series via Archie suddenly deciding to make up for the cancelled Sonic issues they owed me, but I haven't opened them.

10 hours ago, Heckboy said:

If he can't fall back on lore dumping and fanservice/memes he stumbles, and Cosmo was the perfect example of it.

Unfortunately, that's part of what IDW Sonic's issue is. Regardless of where you stand on, most can agree that some of the stuff we see here was also in play previously but with less exploration, development, and even fun liberties involved.

Amy being a capable, balanced character? Knuckles being dutiful and guarding the Master Emerald? Eggman being a threat on top of being a whimsical egomaniac? We've seen these before, but the characters also got to do more with and/or without it.

So far, the only game characters who've really gotten much noteworthy use besides Sonic himself are Amy, Eggman(as Mr. Tinker), Metal(as Neo), Silver(taking a explosion), Vector(trapping that lady), and Charmy. Everyone else is just kinda going through the motions whenever they actually get pagetime.

10 hours ago, Heckboy said:

Again, he is certainly capable of putting good work out. He is significantly better than Penders (though, hot take, I'd argue Flynn has a few bad writing habits in common with ol' Ken). 

Well, considering he used to be a fan....

9 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Why do people keep questioning if people are really enjoying the idw comic. The fact my comic store and many others are constantly sold out speak volumes when many archie age late issues sat on stands.

Because there's a fair, frequent amount of people who voice issues with it.

8 hours ago, Champion Ellipsis-Ultima said:

Another Tangle Whisper cover. I really like the style in this one-

tumblr_pt09gzE1kt1rplhyso1_1280.jpg

Shadow?

image.jpeg

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look, people oughto stop their complaining. the comic is just starting. im sure its gonna pick up the pace soon enough at sonic speed. im liking it and am really grateful that sonic is back in the comics. im betting that its going to be just as good as archie. if not BETTER! just give it a chance and see. 

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2 hours ago, bingboomer said:

look, people oughto stop their complaining. the comic is just starting.

No!

No-no-no-no

NOOOOOOOOOOO

I refuse to listen to this god damn excuse. I've been over this one too many times. You can't sell people empty boxes with promise of filling them later.

Sonic Universe #1 had action comedy and drama squeezed in 20 pages and I read it without knowing any context from rest of the series.
Darkwing Duck comic lasted only 20 issues, but each of  them kicked ass.
Transformers New Bold Continuity is garbage and I don't care it's "only" 6 issues. I gave up.

We can't let creators benefit of 'will be  worth later'. I can go to cinema, buy video game or just buy pizza, way cheaper than 12+ worth of comics and without months of waiting.

An in Flynn's specific case, what kind of excuse is 'just starting' He had 10+ years of experience and first 12 issues make a self-contained arc

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31 minutes ago, bingboomer said:

look, people oughto stop their complaining. the comic is just starting. im sure its gonna pick up the pace soon enough at sonic speed. im liking it and am really grateful that sonic is back in the comics. im betting that its going to be just as good as archie. if not BETTER! just give it a chance and see. 

Maybe don't bother complaining about people complaining. What you say has already been said or considered. 17 issues is more than a lot of comics get, this is "just starting" assuming things don't go wrong anytime soon.

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12 hours ago, Heckboy said:

It was also not good or memorable in any way. It's forgettable as a sci-fi book, forgettable as a comedy book, and forgettable as a kiddie adventure book. Ian isn't good with comedy (by his own admission, to be fair), so putting him on a comedy sci-fi book was a bad idea. It seems like something they threw out there to fill the action-adventure void left by Sonic and Mega Man getting the axe, and hoped that Flynn and Yardley's names would have some pull with the former Sonic/MM crowd.

I disagree. I thought it was a fun light read and I got a few good chuckles out of it.

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I myself am really liking where the comic is now, and that Tangle / Whisper cover looks read, are they about to Fight Sonic?

 

Edit: Wish people would stop comparing the sales of Archie-Sonic to IDW Sonic when people are glossing over some important factors

1: American-style western comic books haven't been doing as great in sales in general, even the higly praised comics from big houses from Marvel and D.C. aren't as populair as they used to be.
2: the archie books especially in the 90's were heavily sold because it had Sonic on it, Sonic was for many people a hard-to-find-merch by in general and its popularity rivalated  that of both Mario and Mickey Mouse, mostly in the west hench, why Sonic Japanese manga books never lasted beyond a volume or 3.
Sonic's popularity took a nose-dive especially in the latter years , bad games like Sonic 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog were still sold very well due to its franchise ties but games like Sonic Boom proves that Sonic can no longer be sold on his name alone and is still on the part-recovery of its name.

 

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3 hours ago, bingboomer said:

look, people oughto stop their complaining. the comic is just starting. im sure its gonna pick up the pace soon enough at sonic speed. im liking it and am really grateful that sonic is back in the comics. im betting that its going to be just as good as archie. if not BETTER! just give it a chance and see. 

Uuuuh, two things:

1. We're partway through a pretty large second story arc after the 12 or so issue first year.

2. Expecting some people to stop complaining is like expecting birds not to shit--its gonna happen at some point, it's just based on the cycle and it's variables.

3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

We can't let creators benefit of 'will be  worth later'. I can go to cinema, buy video game or just buy pizza, way cheaper than 12+ worth of comics and without months of waiting.

An in Flynn's specific case, what kind of excuse is 'just starting' He had 10+ years of experience and first 12 issues make a self-contained arc

There's also the fact that these arcs and stories are possibly shorter and sparser in part because he's already dealt with having buidup go unfulfilled and/or cut short before.

Thrice, without getting into specifics.

2 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:


Sonic's popularity took a nose-dive especially in the latter years , bad games like Sonic 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog were still sold very well due to its franchise ties but games like Sonic Boom proves that Sonic can no longer be sold on his name alone and is still on the part-recovery of its name.

 

It also didn't help that things like Twitter and reviews complaining about lack of forwarded copies circulated when Rise of Lyric was starting to come out.

2 hours ago, Champion Ellipsis-Ultima said:

I have a feeling that

  Hide contents

The octopus girl in the second issues cover is a shapeshifter, hence that Sonic running away.

I have a feeling thisll tie into Year 3 somehow

 

I thought that was an obvious connotation, but okay.

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14 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I do not know what youre talking about in the issue of writing being bad. Ive been in the comic since issue 0 and this is some of the best writing ive seen in years.  And its great in mixing humor and darker stories.

"No!"

5 hours ago, bingboomer said:

look, people oughto stop their complaining. the comic is just starting. im sure its gonna pick up the pace soon enough at sonic speed. im liking it and am really grateful that sonic is back in the comics. im betting that its going to be just as good as archie. if not BETTER! just give it a chance and see. 

2014: "The reboot will get better soon!"

2015: "The reboot is still just getting started, soon it'll get better!"

2016: "We're only three years into the reboot, be patient!"

2017: "The reboot is... oh wait it's cancelled."

2018: "Okay, so we're only ten issues into IDW. Give it time"

2019: "IDW is just starting, give it time.

2020: ???

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21 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

No is hardly a counter

It's a tongue-in-cheek meme response because I'm tired of repeating myself.

Plus responding with "I don't get why you think the writing is bad" is hardly a counter when I literally just explained why I think the writing is bad. If you want me to be more concise, here:

IDW, like some of Ian's previous work, is running in place and has been for over a year. Ian loves long-term buildup but often fails to make the individual stories in the present engaging enough on their own. There are exceptions to this (the Champions arc in Archie, for instance), but this is the big problem with his writing. IDW has been extremely formulaic to the point where I can't even remember what event happened in which issue. There are no vibrant setpieces, no exciting or well-choreographed fight scenes, no conflicts or mysteries that are solved in interesting or clever ways. Just point A to point B plots with stilted, expository dialogue peppered with I CLAPPED BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT THAT REFERENCE IS moments that fans eat up.

Again, the mandates thing is a meme response because none of this is restricted by the mandates. Just tell a basic funny book story with a few neat twists and turns. This is a visually vibrant series, so maybe have settings that aren't just "nameless generic village" or "grassy field" or "cave". Have action sequences that don't just consist of characters commenting on their situation, solving their problem in one page, then commenting how easy/hard it was. That's all.

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4 hours ago, Champion Ellipsis-Ultima said:

I have a feeling that

  Hide contents

The octopus girl in the second issues cover is a shapeshifter, hence that Sonic running away.

I have a feeling thisll tie into Year 3 somehow

 

that would be pretty cool :D

Ian and the rest of the IDW Staff so far really have made originail and capturing characters so cant wait for this new one

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Did that Whisper issue come with a synopsis?

1 hour ago, Heckboy said:

IDW, like some of Ian's previous work, is running in place and has been for over a year. IDW has been extremely formulaic to the point where I can't even remember what event happened in which issue. There are no vibrant setpieces, no exciting or well-choreographed fight scenes, no conflicts or mysteries that are solved in interesting or clever ways. 

This is a visually vibrant series, so maybe have settings that aren't just "nameless generic village" or "grassy field" or "cave". Have action sequences that don't just consist of characters commenting on their situation, solving their problem in one page, then commenting how easy/hard it was. That's all.

I can agree with much of this.

43 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

that would be pretty cool :D

Ian and the rest of the IDW Staff so far really have made originail and capturing characters so cant wait for this new one

Capturing?

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1 hour ago, Heckboy said:

"No!"

2014: "The reboot will get better soon!"

2015: "The reboot is still just getting started, soon it'll get better!"

2016: "We're only three years into the reboot, be patient!"

2017: "The reboot is... oh wait it's cancelled."

2018: "Okay, so we're only ten issues into IDW. Give it time"

2019: "IDW is just starting, give it time.

2020: ???

The reboot was objectively better than Pre-reboot and IDW is continuing that trend.

See I can state my opinions as fact too.

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18 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

The reboot was objectively better than Pre-reboot and IDW is continuing that trend.

See I can state my opinions as fact too.

Where in that post did I state my opinion as fact? Those are all basically paraphrasing people's responses to criticisms of IDW and the Archie reboot over the years.

And I can't wait for the day you reply with something other than "UH WELL THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION" and actually address my points with counterarguments. I mean Shadowlax and DabigRG actually acknowledged what I said and provided interesting opinions of their own, and even though I disagree with some of it I at least appreciate that. But for some reason you seem incapable of that and instead just run back to your Twitter hugbox to point and go "UGH, SOME PEOPLE AMIRITE?"

image.png.ad3233be84fc74c226881b7a16c144d1.png

It's amazing because you've been called out on this before, I believe both on here and on Archie Sonic Online, and yet you continue to do this. Do you just not have anything insightful to say, ever? Do you only know how to snark at people behind their backs? 

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Ok fair point I need to stop doing that. I know it's immature. 

But even still when you just say shit like 

Quote

2014: "The reboot will get better soon!"

2015: "The reboot is still just getting started, soon it'll get better!"

2016: "We're only three years into the reboot, be patient!"

2017: "The reboot is... oh wait it's cancelled."

2018: "Okay, so we're only ten issues into IDW. Give it time"

2019: "IDW is just starting, give it time.

2020: ???

What is anyone supposedto think other than you're just being negative just to be negative? 

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1 minute ago, SBR2 said:

Ok fair point I need to stop doing that. I know it's immature. 

But even still when you just say shit like 

What is anyone supposedto think other than you're just being negative just to be negative? 

It's in response to a post that I've basically seen here OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER, one that deliberately ignores my points any time I criticize this fucking comic. I'm not even mad at that dude specifically, but this type of post gets old real quick.

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Okay, I am going to ask two things here-

1) That this personal argument stop.  Attack points, not people, etc.

2) Also, I was fine with it in the statuses because I thought you were just making fun of some rando on Twitter, which isn't a great thing to do either but I'd be a hypocrite to call you out on it.  But I absolutely do think we shouldn't be bringing up off-site drama between other members into the thread.  Please settle that shit in private, not here.

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3 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

But even still when you just say shit like 

What is anyone supposedto think other than you're just being negative just to be negative? 

Maybe that...people have actual, long-standing complaints, that deserve to be discussed honestly and not just brushed off with "well it's just starting you can't judge it!"

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I really liked the post-reboot myself. much more then what became before it, I really didn't see anyone using the cancelling as an excuse that it didn't got good. After all the cancellation is more related to Sonic Team wanting to try out a new publisher and start a new, (bad blood and because Archie had a habbit of portraying their characters  in a very very not so flattering matter) and partly because Archie wanted to move away  a bit from their action titles and focus on RIverdale.

The idw series is a lot like the reboot series, so that makes sense to why I like it, IDW just needs a bit more characters, still miss the egg-bosses which they could move with them.

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21 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

I really liked the post-reboot myself. much more then what became before it, I really didn't see anyone using the cancelling as an excuse that it didn't got good. After all the cancellation is more related to Sonic Team wanting to try out a new publisher and start a new, (bad blood and because Archie had a habbit of portraying their characters  in a very very not so flattering matter) and partly because Archie wanted to move away  a bit from their action titles and focus on RIverdale.

The idw series is a lot like the reboot series, so that makes sense to why I like it, IDW just needs a bit more characters, still miss the egg-bosses which they could move with them.

Needs just a bit more going on with the characters, plot, and world as well, but sure.

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It's important to be able to roll with the punches.

Despite liking the Archie books well enough when I got into them, I was often at odds with people whenever I laid bare all my criticisms with the status of the book and of Ian's writing. Now the script has been flipped and I'm enjoying something he's writing while being presented with criticism on the other end. Some of which I agree with, some of which I definitely don't.

Some of the fears I did in fact express when I heard that Ian Flynn was coming back to write for Sonic was how much of a jerk I thought he was going to continue writing Sonic to be and how the usual pattern (especially when it came to Sonic Universe) of having long, drawn-out story arcs that end with extremely rushed and unsatisfying conclusions was going to continue. One of those didn't come to pass as Sonic's been really charming and legitimately cool in this series. The other is definitely a problem that's still persisting.

It was certainly a much bigger and more prominent problem with Year 1, especially. The excuse of it being done the way it was for the sake of introducing everyone to these characters and this world does only go so far. I enjoyed Year 1 for what it was, for the most part, and didn't totally agree that it was as deprived of interesting conflicts and set-pieces during the build-up phase as some others have suggested. Issues 1 through 6 I remember clearly and Issue 7 is still one of my absolute favorites. However, the bulk of what it is being something that could be largely forgotten is something I understood and accepted.

I didn't get legitimately disappointed until I saw what it was actually leading up to.

The entire finale with the Metal Overlord (I feel dumb referring to it as Master Overlord) was really shoddily written. The masses of characters huddling together to do a bunch of meaningless background fighting that can't even be classified as choreography was lame. The confrontation with the actual cool idea of giving Metal a Super form only to double back on something we've seen before (and something Ian has publicly stated he hated when he saw it in Heroes) turned out to be bogus. The solution for everything up to that point was vexingly simple. Our big built up villain turned into an utter buffoon and was bested by the Heroes in a matter of pages that just saw everything immediately fixing itself because... I guess it was time for the Heroes to win. That's fucking LAME.

I immediately had flashbacks to the old Sonic Universe arcs where Ian would end the third issue of each arc on a full page spread of the big bad they were supposed to face down only for the beginning of the final issue to just RUSH to that thing's defeat as though it were no real big deal. Despite my legitimate enjoyment of the comic, this IS a problem Ian had and still does have.

Year 2 has been far better than Year 1, to the point where right now it's actually turning out to be one of my favorite stories I've watched unfold reading a Sonic comic book. This is a story where, luckily, the build up actually works extremely well with the subject matter and the process of how it got from one point to another is fun to lay out in my mind. Eggman going from torturing little flickies in test tubes, to zombifying Rough and Tumble, to dumping the goop on the village that took care of him like a tremendous asshole, to infecting an entire city, to losing my favorite character..! It's been a thrill ride for me. I definitely can not agree with anyone who says that what's been transpiring so far hasn't been good. It's successfully gotten my heart pumping. 

Even better is what's being done with Sonic. The flow of the story actually doesn't feel detrimental by following him because of his situation with regards to actually being infected. He can't stop moving, he can't touch any of his friends, he probably can't even sleep for very long. These are really great ideas and a lot of what he's done so far is stuff I'm extremely jealous I didn't come up with myself. The fact that it's a reference to the Metal forms in Heroes largely doesn't even matter. 

All of this said, I'm still keeping an open mind to reserve judgement on the arc as a whole because of how these things usually go. A huge part of me actually desires to see this go a bit past this year just because I feel the build up would work better matched with a similarly paced back half... but Ian's shown that that's not how his stuff usually goes.

It may not completely ruin the feelings I've had about it up to this point but I'll be gravely disappointed if this arc ends similarly to the first one where everything we've been building up to just fixes itself with a rushed climax that squanders what it's been doing up till now. I don't know if I believe seven issues will be enough to confidently wrap this all up. 

I hope it does. 

Even as someone who's enjoying this book on the whole, I see where some of the complaints are coming from. I definitely still can't wrap my head around a few of them but there's certainly consistent problems Ian Flynn's had with his writing being showcased in this book. For me, it hasn't been all that present here in Year 2 so far and I hope it stays that way because any story surrounding Sonic that can get my heart pumping like this one has so far I feel is worth an actual well-done ending and not the typical ones Ian tends to do. He's managed satisfying conclusions before so here's hoping this is one of them.

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