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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


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3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Contrivances only work for so many times before the suspension of disbelief kicks in. It works for the video games, because the plots are just there to service the gameplay and is merely a means to an end. 

Without gameplay to draw attention away from it, it definitely starts to stick out; that these characters just so happen to be close to whatever action is taking place, no matter how implausible it is. It works for Sonic because he's a nomadic hero, but you can't use the same justification all of the time for everyone else unless they're specifically travelling with Sonic.

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I mean again that works for a game that comes once a year but a monthly comic or even a weekly cartoon makes those contrivances more obvious. 

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

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15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

How they end up in the story is part of using them is it not? Part of writing a good story is actually introducing people to the cast and why the audience should care about them.

There's nothing inherently interesting about a character who just shows up because the plot needs for them to do so, especially when it's a large pool of characters. 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

This is more or less what he was saying 

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

How they end up in the story is part of using them is it not? Part of writing a good story is actually introducing people to the cast and why the audience should care about them.

There's nothing inherently interesting about a character who just shows up because the plot needs for them to do so, especially when it's a large pool of characters. 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

I mean, yeah, that's the level of initial justification I'm talking about. And yeah, introducing the character to the audience is important, but why they are in this particular place on the planet at this particular point in time doesn't necessarily have to be part of that.

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6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

This is more or less what he was saying 

 

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I mean, yeah, that's the level of initial justification I'm talking about. And yeah, introducing the character to the audience is important, but why they are in this particular place on the planet at this particular point in time doesn't necessarily have to be part of that.

I misread it then; It sounded like you were saying they should just show up... because.

Then yes, it doesn't really need to be any more complicated than what I said before unless its tied to the main plot.

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51 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

Heck the characters that do have responsibilities those are responsibilities are often ignored or in some cases just being removed. Silver is just trying to figure out what's up with the future in the past.  Blaze despite being a princess is around and sega doesn't really ever acknowledged she's from another world anymore anyway ( i mean at that point just merge her world with sonic's world I mean there's no reason why she just couldn't exist on another part of sonic's planet with a buncha islands and stuff but i'm rambling). They don't seem to care about Knuckles with the M.E anymore, and as we recently learn none of the members of team dark work for gun and also according to people in charge they aren't even a team. A lot of the more recent efforts , even mentioned by iizuka in an interview seem to be attempts to make characters who are more malleable. Which is good or bad depending on what you like i'm not really gonna judge you. And it doesn't necessarily excuse lack of storytelling. But they are malleable.

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YES, I DID IT!!! I reached very arbitrary goal of having equal number of Posts and Reputation Points. Statistically everything I said is worth something Woooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...and now by making this post I probably lost that goal. Umm, sorry for off-topic.

Can  I recommend a reviews? "Hedging Your Bets" by Chris Sims

He has only loose idea what happened in games, and started reading Archie Sonic with "Genesis" Arc. That's awful way to get into the comics, yet dude managed to approach the subject with leveled head and objectivity. He has unique observations, fair sense of humor and is surprisingly positive about stuff I was pretty harsh when they came out. Sadly he stopped in middle of Unite, so I doubt he'll ever make IDW Sonic.

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The IDW run has 17 issues, a one shot, and an Annual out so far. Archie Sonic has almost 300 issues of Sonic the Hedgehog, nearly a 100 issues of Sonic Universe, 32 issues of Knuckles the Echidna, 8 Specials and 15 Super Specials, as well as a few other things, with the Archie continuity somewhere around 450 issues. Include Sonic X and Sonic Boom comics, that bumps it up to near 500. I don't think there is anything wrong in saying which one you prefer, but frankly, I think it is impossible to do any real comparison because IDW is still very much in its infancy and has, what, not even 5% of the quantity Archie had built up?

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9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really? He rambles listing things he likes, without saying a single argument why he likes them.

All he could say about Archie was  "became like fanfic" and "it got weird with love triangles", which is really ignoring everything Flynn wrote (...fine, everything past House of Cards). And calling out furries is just confusing in many ways.

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen. Is any of this a fanfic furry soap-opera?

THANK YOU!The fan fiction/soup opera stopped A LONG TIME before the comic got cancelled!If people keep bringing up how the comics was at first and ignore how it changed how can they expect people to stop wanting it back just to show them that it improved?

9 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

Bringing up problems that haven’t (or hadn’t) been relevant for years to “prove” their point is a common trait of blind Archie Sonic haters.

Exactly

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Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

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13 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Personally I prefer if one day Sonic walks into city with GUN soldier and humnas, and no comments. Just like that. After all this is how game treat it.

This is pretty unsolvable. Sega made this mess, Flynn should not waste his talents trying to fix it. I know usually he does that, but this time it's not worth it.

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Archie has the advantage that it has more than 450 issues combined with specials, miniseries, spin-offs, yet why does most of that world-building/backstory/etc. still suck? Reboot was all world building and hardly entertaining, tons of new characters introduced in almost each issue, trying to fill in the past coming from a long (gone) timeline. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you guys can repeat the same things, why can't I?

This book is only 17 issues in, and it's already more consistent in its tone, action, entertainment, it's not so special, but it's still great (aside from Fallout which had no progress), it has a more focused cast, more simple approach that EVERYONE can read. But I'm not surprised that fans of continuity and world building dislike it, it's okay to have opinions.

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But uh...being easy to get into at the expense of...any kind of world to be invested in doesn't give most of the returning audience much. I do believe that's their problem, people don't want all world building...das stupid.

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1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic X already did that, both SA1 and 2. The two worlds shtick is far older than people seem to realise. 

And Battle, of all things. Very very loosely, but it was still there. 

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You know IDW is truly interesting and sustaining people when they insist on comparing to Archie.

18 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen.

The story that actually focuses on the Pronghorns is called Hidden Costs, just so you know.

 

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Heck the characters that do have responsibilities those are responsibilities are often ignored or in some cases just being removed. Silver is just trying to figure out what's up with the future in the past.  Blaze despite being a princess is around and sega doesn't really ever acknowledged she's from another world anymore anyway ( i mean at that point just merge her world with sonic's world I mean there's no reason why she just couldn't exist on another part of sonic's planet with a buncha islands and stuff but i'm rambling). They don't seem to care about Knuckles with the M.E anymore, and as we recently learn none of the members of team dark work for gun and also according to people in charge they aren't even a team. A lot of the more recent efforts , even mentioned by iizuka in an interview seem to be attempts to make characters who are more malleable. Which is good or bad depending on what you like i'm not really gonna judge you. And it doesn't necessarily excuse lack of storytelling. But they are malleable.

Honestly/personally, I find it a little hard to care at this point. For the most part, anyway.

Unless the story actually depends on it, Knuckles and Silver not being where they belong at any given time isn't much of an issue. Knuckles has been around more than long enough(across at least 3 major eras even) for any stressing on him not being on Angel Island every waking hour to be kinda moot at this point, so he doesn't bother me even half of the time. And timetravel's so frequent yet flimsy in this series that while he does actually need a quick reason/justification for his presence, Silver seldom does anything major let alone separate enough from what Sonic & friends are already doing to make his occasional appearances anything to worry too much about. 

Travel from the Sol Dimension is a different story due to the stakes that are grandfathered in on top of there actually being locales and a citizenry that needs to be looked after. The general rule with Blaze seems to be that as long as she has control over the Sol Emeralds, everything's kosher and she can hop dimensions every once in a blue moon as available from her duties. So while the window is much tighter on her by necessity, all it takes is an appropriate explanation or plot development to get her there.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic Adventure's story is coherent.

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter. 

4 hours ago, Psycho_Jack said:

 yet why does most of that world-building/backstory/etc. still suck?

"Oh gee, why don't you tell us!"

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14 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter.

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine.

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Sonic X didn't really do that? Sa1 is so isolated in its execution that it could take place anywhere and function. They could legit reboot the 3d sonic series and start with SA1 and just have animal people instead of humans and that story functions the same.

Sa2 is is made more complicated and worse by the separation ( and chris ) , there's a lot more questions about that narrative both thematically and just how certain story elements function. That said, sega doesn't care to acknowledge anything that happened in sa2 outside of shadow existing anymore text relating to shadow's existence. And at this point basically expecting them at some point possibly with some form of remake retconning a lot of that game because it kinda just doesn't fall in line with a lot of what they want to do thematically today or at least continue to ignore its existence and retcon it in secret. So in short, it does make matter's weird... but it doesn't matter at  this point.

 

8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Honestly/personally, I find it a little hard to care at this point. For the most part, anyway.

Unless the story actually depends on it, Knuckles and Silver not being where they belong at any given time isn't much of an issue. Knuckles has been around more than long enough(across at least 3 major eras even) for any stressing on him not being on Angel Island every waking hour to be kinda moot at this point, so he doesn't bother me even half of the time. And timetravel's so frequent yet flimsy in this series that while he does actually need a quick reason/justification for his presence, Silver seldom does anything major let alone separate enough from what Sonic & friends are already doing to make his occasional appearances anything to worry too much about. 

Travel from the Sol Dimension is a different story due to the stakes that are grandfathered in on top of there actually being locales and a citizenry that needs to be looked after. The general rule with Blaze seems to be that as long as she has control over the Sol Emeralds, everything's kosher and she can hop dimensions every once in a blue moon as available from her duties. So while the window is much tighter on her by necessity, all it takes is an appropriate explanation or plot development to get her there.

 

I would make the argument that in the case of the M.E its clear that they don't care for it is a narrative device, and keep trying to bill it as knuckles's thing. Just get rid of it, as much as this sucks to say, most people probably don't give a crap that knuckle's is the guardian of whatever. Its that he can fight real good, why not just get rid of it. It can just be classic knuckles's thing. So it isn't a pressing issue, however I feel like If they want these characters to be a way why not go full on with it and actually change the characters.

As for silver, vague time shenanigans explain anything and everything. I mean, it would just suggest he sucks at his job, but like who cares its silver.

As for blaze I still stand by my idea of just retconning blaze's world to just be another part of animal planet. There's more than chaos emeralds on animal planet anyway, why couldn't the sol emeralds be there. Now her getting there is just a boat ride or something. also I dunno maybe that would make sega actually do things with her kingdom .

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12 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine.

Mobians like Big and occasionally Tails can just happen to be living in the Human world, just as humans like Eggman( and if you still count her Witchcart) is often in the Animal World.

No biggie.

 

16 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sonic X didn't really do that? Sa1 is so isolated in its execution that it could take place anywhere and function. They could legit reboot the 3d sonic series and start with SA1 and just have animal people instead of humans and that story functions the same.

Sa2 is is made more complicated and worse by the separation ( and chris ) , there's a lot more questions about that narrative both thematically and just how certain story elements function. That said, sega doesn't care to acknowledge anything that happened in sa2 outside of shadow existing anymore text relating to shadow's existence. And at this point basically expecting them at some point possibly with some form of remake retconning a lot of that game because it kinda just doesn't fall in line with a lot of what they want to do thematically today or at least continue to ignore its existence and retcon it in secret. So in short, it does make matter's weird... but it doesn't matter at  this point.

 

I would make the argument that in the case of the M.E its clear that they don't care for it is a narrative device, and keep trying to bill it as knuckles's thing. Just get rid of it, as much as this sucks to say, most people probably don't give a crap that knuckle's is the guardian of whatever. Its that he can fight real good, why not just get rid of it. It can just be classic knuckles's thing. So it isn't a pressing issue, however I feel like If they want these characters to be a way why not go full on with it and actually change the characters.

As for silver, vague time shenanigans explain anything and everything. I mean, it would just suggest he sucks at his job, but like who cares its silver.

As for blaze I still stand by my idea of just retconning blaze's world to just be another part of animal planet. There's more than chaos emeralds on animal planet anyway, why couldn't the sol emeralds be there. Now her getting there is just a boat ride or something. also I dunno maybe that would make sega actually do things with her kingdom .

Because I among many am not down with "just getting rid of " anything.

Uh, the occasional exemption notwithstanding, but that's pretty rare.

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4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

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35 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

A lot of people like world-building.

A lot of people like said world-building to be coherent and consistent.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Because I among many am not down with "just getting rid of " anything.

Uh, the occasional exemption notwithstanding, but that's pretty rare.

As a fan, I agree.

As a person looking at sega's business strategy with the characters at the moment, I'm expecting shit to be cut not that far into the future.

37 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

It should be noted that the current writer of the comic openly admitted that is so convoluted  that he doesn't even want to introduce the premise into the comic's yet.  I'm not saying you should or should not think its important. But the guy who's known for doing cool shit with the franchises funky lore even went " that's stupid " .

I personally think it complicates some things, my favorite character is shadow. Obviously if your favorite character is numerous other characters this separation  may mean nothing to you.

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2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine. 

Honestly, it all depends of how you interprets stuff, I'm not sure than a train-portal is the simplest way to solve that, nor the most efficient, even if I don't hate it (I wouldn't be angry at all if it was chosen).

IIRC, the Jungle is kinda ambiguous about of what it's part of. You don't have to tweak a lot SA to say it's part of Angel Island (it's not more strange than the question of if Red Mountain and Ice Cap are part of it. It would also be quite compatible with Sand Road/Hill being part of Sandopolis (something you can assume with TSR) and would simplify most of it). Just using this assumption would solve most of this… And would make an interesting parallel between the Echidna Jungle and the first level of S3. And I love the idea of Big being randomly an inhabitant of Angel Island. And as Angel Island is a mystical island, being able to mysteriously teleport between two worlds isn't really hard to imagine.

It would leave one thing : Tails Workshop. And honestly I can imagine a nerd like Tails having just built a workshop because and because "yeah there where this one, but it was just only 97% like I wanted it and you know, it's better and if it's done that way" XD. For me, Tails is the kind of character to have several workshop, creating them just "because".

But it's a kinda cool sci-fi way to solve it. A universe where traveling between planet/dimensions is as casual as taking a train billet ? That's my kind of stuff.

 

But TBH, whatever the solution of Flynn would be (if he choose to have one), I'm pretty sure that it would be at least be a clever one… I mean, ha managed to place SCD between S2 and S3 without angering the nerd that I am, so I think he could do interesting stuff with that.

And my impossible dream if he decide to use the 2-world thing more would be a story set 50 years in the past showing Gerald going in the mobian world. It could be really interesting, especially if he decided to play with stuff like ressemblance between Shadow and "the Echidna Prophecy" or with how the Ark replicate the Angel Island altar. And with how Gerald is kinda old renaissance humanists (in that he basically have knowledge in a lot of field), it could be an interesting story to show him going in a completely "alien" world.

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