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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic X already did that, both SA1 and 2. The two worlds shtick is far older than people seem to realise. 

And Battle, of all things. Very very loosely, but it was still there. 

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You know IDW is truly interesting and sustaining people when they insist on comparing to Archie.

18 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen.

The story that actually focuses on the Pronghorns is called Hidden Costs, just so you know.

 

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Heck the characters that do have responsibilities those are responsibilities are often ignored or in some cases just being removed. Silver is just trying to figure out what's up with the future in the past.  Blaze despite being a princess is around and sega doesn't really ever acknowledged she's from another world anymore anyway ( i mean at that point just merge her world with sonic's world I mean there's no reason why she just couldn't exist on another part of sonic's planet with a buncha islands and stuff but i'm rambling). They don't seem to care about Knuckles with the M.E anymore, and as we recently learn none of the members of team dark work for gun and also according to people in charge they aren't even a team. A lot of the more recent efforts , even mentioned by iizuka in an interview seem to be attempts to make characters who are more malleable. Which is good or bad depending on what you like i'm not really gonna judge you. And it doesn't necessarily excuse lack of storytelling. But they are malleable.

Honestly/personally, I find it a little hard to care at this point. For the most part, anyway.

Unless the story actually depends on it, Knuckles and Silver not being where they belong at any given time isn't much of an issue. Knuckles has been around more than long enough(across at least 3 major eras even) for any stressing on him not being on Angel Island every waking hour to be kinda moot at this point, so he doesn't bother me even half of the time. And timetravel's so frequent yet flimsy in this series that while he does actually need a quick reason/justification for his presence, Silver seldom does anything major let alone separate enough from what Sonic & friends are already doing to make his occasional appearances anything to worry too much about. 

Travel from the Sol Dimension is a different story due to the stakes that are grandfathered in on top of there actually being locales and a citizenry that needs to be looked after. The general rule with Blaze seems to be that as long as she has control over the Sol Emeralds, everything's kosher and she can hop dimensions every once in a blue moon as available from her duties. So while the window is much tighter on her by necessity, all it takes is an appropriate explanation or plot development to get her there.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic Adventure's story is coherent.

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter. 

4 hours ago, Psycho_Jack said:

 yet why does most of that world-building/backstory/etc. still suck?

"Oh gee, why don't you tell us!"

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14 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter.

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine.

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Sonic X didn't really do that? Sa1 is so isolated in its execution that it could take place anywhere and function. They could legit reboot the 3d sonic series and start with SA1 and just have animal people instead of humans and that story functions the same.

Sa2 is is made more complicated and worse by the separation ( and chris ) , there's a lot more questions about that narrative both thematically and just how certain story elements function. That said, sega doesn't care to acknowledge anything that happened in sa2 outside of shadow existing anymore text relating to shadow's existence. And at this point basically expecting them at some point possibly with some form of remake retconning a lot of that game because it kinda just doesn't fall in line with a lot of what they want to do thematically today or at least continue to ignore its existence and retcon it in secret. So in short, it does make matter's weird... but it doesn't matter at  this point.

 

8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Honestly/personally, I find it a little hard to care at this point. For the most part, anyway.

Unless the story actually depends on it, Knuckles and Silver not being where they belong at any given time isn't much of an issue. Knuckles has been around more than long enough(across at least 3 major eras even) for any stressing on him not being on Angel Island every waking hour to be kinda moot at this point, so he doesn't bother me even half of the time. And timetravel's so frequent yet flimsy in this series that while he does actually need a quick reason/justification for his presence, Silver seldom does anything major let alone separate enough from what Sonic & friends are already doing to make his occasional appearances anything to worry too much about. 

Travel from the Sol Dimension is a different story due to the stakes that are grandfathered in on top of there actually being locales and a citizenry that needs to be looked after. The general rule with Blaze seems to be that as long as she has control over the Sol Emeralds, everything's kosher and she can hop dimensions every once in a blue moon as available from her duties. So while the window is much tighter on her by necessity, all it takes is an appropriate explanation or plot development to get her there.

 

I would make the argument that in the case of the M.E its clear that they don't care for it is a narrative device, and keep trying to bill it as knuckles's thing. Just get rid of it, as much as this sucks to say, most people probably don't give a crap that knuckle's is the guardian of whatever. Its that he can fight real good, why not just get rid of it. It can just be classic knuckles's thing. So it isn't a pressing issue, however I feel like If they want these characters to be a way why not go full on with it and actually change the characters.

As for silver, vague time shenanigans explain anything and everything. I mean, it would just suggest he sucks at his job, but like who cares its silver.

As for blaze I still stand by my idea of just retconning blaze's world to just be another part of animal planet. There's more than chaos emeralds on animal planet anyway, why couldn't the sol emeralds be there. Now her getting there is just a boat ride or something. also I dunno maybe that would make sega actually do things with her kingdom .

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12 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine.

Mobians like Big and occasionally Tails can just happen to be living in the Human world, just as humans like Eggman( and if you still count her Witchcart) is often in the Animal World.

No biggie.

 

16 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sonic X didn't really do that? Sa1 is so isolated in its execution that it could take place anywhere and function. They could legit reboot the 3d sonic series and start with SA1 and just have animal people instead of humans and that story functions the same.

Sa2 is is made more complicated and worse by the separation ( and chris ) , there's a lot more questions about that narrative both thematically and just how certain story elements function. That said, sega doesn't care to acknowledge anything that happened in sa2 outside of shadow existing anymore text relating to shadow's existence. And at this point basically expecting them at some point possibly with some form of remake retconning a lot of that game because it kinda just doesn't fall in line with a lot of what they want to do thematically today or at least continue to ignore its existence and retcon it in secret. So in short, it does make matter's weird... but it doesn't matter at  this point.

 

I would make the argument that in the case of the M.E its clear that they don't care for it is a narrative device, and keep trying to bill it as knuckles's thing. Just get rid of it, as much as this sucks to say, most people probably don't give a crap that knuckle's is the guardian of whatever. Its that he can fight real good, why not just get rid of it. It can just be classic knuckles's thing. So it isn't a pressing issue, however I feel like If they want these characters to be a way why not go full on with it and actually change the characters.

As for silver, vague time shenanigans explain anything and everything. I mean, it would just suggest he sucks at his job, but like who cares its silver.

As for blaze I still stand by my idea of just retconning blaze's world to just be another part of animal planet. There's more than chaos emeralds on animal planet anyway, why couldn't the sol emeralds be there. Now her getting there is just a boat ride or something. also I dunno maybe that would make sega actually do things with her kingdom .

Because I among many am not down with "just getting rid of " anything.

Uh, the occasional exemption notwithstanding, but that's pretty rare.

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4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

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35 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

A lot of people like world-building.

A lot of people like said world-building to be coherent and consistent.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Because I among many am not down with "just getting rid of " anything.

Uh, the occasional exemption notwithstanding, but that's pretty rare.

As a fan, I agree.

As a person looking at sega's business strategy with the characters at the moment, I'm expecting shit to be cut not that far into the future.

37 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I feel like the only person in the world who really doesn't care.

It's flavor text at best. It'll never be important so I don't get the obsession people have with it.

It should be noted that the current writer of the comic openly admitted that is so convoluted  that he doesn't even want to introduce the premise into the comic's yet.  I'm not saying you should or should not think its important. But the guy who's known for doing cool shit with the franchises funky lore even went " that's stupid " .

I personally think it complicates some things, my favorite character is shadow. Obviously if your favorite character is numerous other characters this separation  may mean nothing to you.

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2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine. 

Honestly, it all depends of how you interprets stuff, I'm not sure than a train-portal is the simplest way to solve that, nor the most efficient, even if I don't hate it (I wouldn't be angry at all if it was chosen).

IIRC, the Jungle is kinda ambiguous about of what it's part of. You don't have to tweak a lot SA to say it's part of Angel Island (it's not more strange than the question of if Red Mountain and Ice Cap are part of it. It would also be quite compatible with Sand Road/Hill being part of Sandopolis (something you can assume with TSR) and would simplify most of it). Just using this assumption would solve most of this… And would make an interesting parallel between the Echidna Jungle and the first level of S3. And I love the idea of Big being randomly an inhabitant of Angel Island. And as Angel Island is a mystical island, being able to mysteriously teleport between two worlds isn't really hard to imagine.

It would leave one thing : Tails Workshop. And honestly I can imagine a nerd like Tails having just built a workshop because and because "yeah there where this one, but it was just only 97% like I wanted it and you know, it's better and if it's done that way" XD. For me, Tails is the kind of character to have several workshop, creating them just "because".

But it's a kinda cool sci-fi way to solve it. A universe where traveling between planet/dimensions is as casual as taking a train billet ? That's my kind of stuff.

 

But TBH, whatever the solution of Flynn would be (if he choose to have one), I'm pretty sure that it would be at least be a clever one… I mean, ha managed to place SCD between S2 and S3 without angering the nerd that I am, so I think he could do interesting stuff with that.

And my impossible dream if he decide to use the 2-world thing more would be a story set 50 years in the past showing Gerald going in the mobian world. It could be really interesting, especially if he decided to play with stuff like ressemblance between Shadow and "the Echidna Prophecy" or with how the Ark replicate the Angel Island altar. And with how Gerald is kinda old renaissance humanists (in that he basically have knowledge in a lot of field), it could be an interesting story to show him going in a completely "alien" world.

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4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

It should be noted that the current writer of the comic openly admitted that is so convoluted  that he doesn't even want to introduce the premise into the comic's yet.  I'm not saying you should or should not think its important. But the guy who's known for doing cool shit with the franchises funky lore even went " that's stupid " .

Yeah listen to the latest bumblkast. He's always using the vocabulary SEGA forces him to use.

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The problem is, even if Sega were to change their tune later on, and Sonic’s world in the IDW-verse officially became a mobian/human cohabitation, I worry Ian has left it a bit too long to not have it be distracting when it happens.

All of the locales we’ve seen in the comic so far have been purely mobian-based, including cities being inhabited entirely by them.

With the metal virus being such a grand-scale event, it’d be hard not to wonder why it seems to be only affecting mobians, with humans being miraculously spared from it. Not to mention this would absolutely be the sort of thing organisations like GUN would get involved in.

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There is simple explanation how SA1 works with Two Worlds idea

Angel Island was seen in Earth and Mobius, right? So logically other large masses can move as well. So echidna ruins were on Mobius first, then got teleported on earth, like Eggman's base in Sonic X

Honestly I like to thing there was some giant places-switcheroo in the past, which would explain how Zones work and how Ice Cap can be so neart to Sandopolis.

(Aslo, echidna ruins kinda have to be on Earth, not Ancient Island. Gerald studied them for his Artificial Chaos robots.

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3 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

 

IIRC, the Jungle is kinda ambiguous about of what it's part of. You don't have to tweak a lot SA to say it's part of Angel Island (it's not more strange than the question of if Red Mountain and Ice Cap are part of it.

The thing is Red Mountain is clearly a part of Angel Island though, whereas the Jungle would've had to already be there due to the presence of Big's Hut, the archeologists(Relic!) minecart track, and the Final Egg.

3 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

It would also be quite compatible with Sand Road/Hill being part of Sandopolis (something you can assume with TSR) and would simplify most of it). Just using this assumption would solve most of this… 

Oh dear, I didn't think about that.

Granted, Team Sonic Racing is inherently weird given it's intro, but whatever.

3 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

And I love the idea of Big being randomly an inhabitant of Angel Island.

Mmm...somewhat.

2 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

The problem is, even if Sega were to change their tune later on, and Sonic’s world in the IDW-verse officially became a mobian/human cohabitation, I worry Ian has left it a bit too long to not have it be distracting when it happens.

All of the locales we’ve seen in the comic so far have been purely mobian-based, including cities being inhabited entirely by them.

With the metal virus being such a grand-scale event, it’d be hard not to wonder why it seems to be only affecting mobians, with humans being miraculously spared from it. Not to mention this would absolutely be the sort of thing organisations like GUN would get involved in.

Eggman is still racist.

1 hour ago, Zulon Eredas said:

So...I missed out on getting the annual.

Oh, that's a bit of a shame. It was kind of a fun break(or rather breaks) from the comic proper.

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Since this a more game-accurate world, I don't think Ian would be able to really explain it much more than SEGA has. He won't even say how Silver is able to time travel. He's probably just going to not directly contradict it while making vague references to planets and dimensions that could maybe be alluding to Two Worlds.

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5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Oh, that's a bit of a shame. It was kind of a fun break(or rather breaks) from the comic proper.

My comic shop guy's got a convention he's going to, so he'll try and acquire the issue, but I'm not holding my breath 

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27 minutes ago, Zulon Eredas said:

My comic shop guy's got a convention he's going to, so he'll try and acquire the issue, but I'm not holding my breath 

Ah. A fingercrosser.

Have you tried looking online?

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On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 5:03 PM, Silvereyes said:

The IDW run has 17 issues, a one shot, and an Annual out so far. Archie Sonic has almost 300 issues of Sonic the Hedgehog, nearly a 100 issues of Sonic Universe, 32 issues of Knuckles the Echidna, 8 Specials and 15 Super Specials, as well as a few other things, with the Archie continuity somewhere around 450 issues. Include Sonic X and Sonic Boom comics, that bumps it up to near 500. I don't think there is anything wrong in saying which one you prefer, but frankly, I think it is impossible to do any real comparison because IDW is still very much in its infancy and has, what, not even 5% of the quantity Archie had built up?

Fleetway had 184 issues of distinct stories, several more of reprints,  plus a number of Specials and Poster Mags. Include the Grandreams annuals and comic strip to bolster it further.

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18 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Fleetway had 184 issues of distinct stories, several more of reprints,  plus a number of Specials and Poster Mags. Include the Grandreams annuals and comic strip to bolster it further. 

That's interesting. I'm not sure if you're saying I'm wrong or anything. I should really get around to reading Sonic the Comic, it does sound fascinating.

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9 hours ago, Razule said:

Since this a more game-accurate world, I don't think Ian would be able to really explain it much more than SEGA has. He won't even say how Silver is able to time travel. He's probably just going to not directly contradict it while making making vague references to planets and dimensions that could maybe be alluding to Two Worlds.

This is exactly it.

Ian Flynn will never commit to showing the two worlds because even Sonic Team aren't committed to the idea.  Nothing in the games, and I don't think even any statement by a Sonic Team member, has ever acknowledged there being two planets or a portal between them.  The most you'll ever get, as a player, is "I wonder where all the humans/animals are in this game?", but "Standing just off-camera" is honestly a better-fit explanation in every single instance.  It's genuinely not clear if the two-worlds nonsense is even meant to be literal.  But this is all related to a bigger problem - that Sonic Team no longer wish to make decisions.

Sonic Team are treading water.  Is Silver still from the future or not, is Blaze still from another world or not, is this new villain dead or alive...  They'll never even address the question in their games because they're terrified that it might limit what they do later.  They've put themselves in this paradoxical position where they refuse to make any canon statements in case it contradicts any other canon statements they might want to make in the future.  Every single choice they make is dedicated to ensuring that they can continue to make unambitious games without having to think about either the past or the future.  The comics will necessarily be the same.  So long as Sonic Team wish the comics to remain game-accurate, nothing will be done that cannot be undone in the future.

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1 hour ago, FFWF said:

This is exactly it.

Ian Flynn will never commit to showing the two worlds because even Sonic Team aren't committed to the idea.  Nothing in the games, and I don't think even any statement by a Sonic Team member, has ever acknowledged there being two planets or a portal between them.  The most you'll ever get, as a player, is "I wonder where all the humans/animals are in this game?", but "Standing just off-camera" is honestly a better-fit explanation in every single instance.  It's genuinely not clear if the two-worlds nonsense is even meant to be literal.  But this is all related to a bigger problem - that Sonic Team no longer wish to make decisions.

Sonic Team are treading water.  Is Silver still from the future or not, is Blaze still from another world or not, is this new villain dead or alive...  They'll never even address the question in their games because they're terrified that it might limit what they do later.  They've put themselves in this paradoxical position where they refuse to make any canon statements in case it contradicts any other canon statements they might want to make in the future.  Every single choice they make is dedicated to ensuring that they can continue to make unambitious games without having to think about either the past or the future.  The comics will necessarily be the same.  So long as Sonic Team wish the comics to remain game-accurate, nothing will be done that cannot be undone in the future.

To be fair to sega this isn't a unique practice, and to also be fair to sega while they haven't said anything official on infinite their lack of speech in comparison to dondan pa and sticks says wonders about how they feel about him , at least in my opinion. Mephilies and ifninite shall live out their days in the dumpster along with everything that isn't sticks from sonic boom.

However the issue with this practice while not unique is because they try to capitalize on nostalgia while also using elements of this franchise. While I can't vouch for silver because it seems from an outside perspective folks seem to like silver based on an entirely constructed personality and things nothing based soley in the games really. Blaze on the other hand is popular because of rush and who she is and what she is about , but they never reference that... she's just blaze. Now obviously there are characters who have transcended such things like knuckles  ( for better or for worse ) but then you have characters like shadow who isn't friends with his friends anymore. Even in spin off games like TSR Rouge acts like she doesn't know the guy. Along with recent revelations from flynn it makes sense that he decided to keep their interacts minimal in the comics.

They try to use these characters but don't want to use any of the cool shit that has endeared us to these characters. And then when they criticism on such thing they don't understand.

So you are right, game accuracy plays into the meaninglessness of the situation.

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