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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Really? He rambles listing things he likes, without saying a single argument why he likes them.

All he could say about Archie was  "became like fanfic" and "it got weird with love triangles", which is really ignoring everything Flynn wrote (...fine, everything past House of Cards). And calling out furries is just confusing in many ways.

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen. Is any of this a fanfic furry soap-opera?

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1 hour ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Just gonna leave this here.

Can we not do this hit and run posting of videos with obvious bait titles that's just going to stir up people in this topic? If you're not gonna follow it up with your own comments, it's just spam as far as I'm concerned.

And no, I'm not giving this views.

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2 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Can we not do this hit and run posting of obvious bait videos that's just going to stir up people in this topic? If you're not gonna follow it up with your own comments, it's just spam as far as I'm concerned.

And no, I'm not giving this views.

Okay. I just wanted to leave this to induce some positivity in the thread since it's pretty negative here and I was trying to brighten it up. Sorry.

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3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Contrivances only work for so many times before the suspension of disbelief kicks in. It works for the video games, because the plots are just there to service the gameplay and is merely a means to an end. 

Without gameplay to draw attention away from it, it definitely starts to stick out; that these characters just so happen to be close to whatever action is taking place, no matter how implausible it is. It works for Sonic because he's a nomadic hero, but you can't use the same justification all of the time for everyone else unless they're specifically travelling with Sonic.

2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I mean again that works for a game that comes once a year but a monthly comic or even a weekly cartoon makes those contrivances more obvious. 

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

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15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

How they end up in the story is part of using them is it not? Part of writing a good story is actually introducing people to the cast and why the audience should care about them.

There's nothing inherently interesting about a character who just shows up because the plot needs for them to do so, especially when it's a large pool of characters. 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

This is more or less what he was saying 

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

How they end up in the story is part of using them is it not? Part of writing a good story is actually introducing people to the cast and why the audience should care about them.

There's nothing inherently interesting about a character who just shows up because the plot needs for them to do so, especially when it's a large pool of characters. 

It's not even anything complicated either; it could something as simple as maybe Tails is studying close where the action is, or maybe Amy decided she wants a vacation, or even Knuckles you could handwave as treasure hunting and just being caught up. Something like that doesn't detract much from the story and it's certainly more interesting than "they just happened to be there just because"

I mean, yeah, that's the level of initial justification I'm talking about. And yeah, introducing the character to the audience is important, but why they are in this particular place on the planet at this particular point in time doesn't necessarily have to be part of that.

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6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

This is more or less what he was saying 

 

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I mean, yeah, that's the level of initial justification I'm talking about. And yeah, introducing the character to the audience is important, but why they are in this particular place on the planet at this particular point in time doesn't necessarily have to be part of that.

I misread it then; It sounded like you were saying they should just show up... because.

Then yes, it doesn't really need to be any more complicated than what I said before unless its tied to the main plot.

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51 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly I don't think it's a problem. With a series that's more grounded in reality, maybe, but Sonic plays pretty loose with this kind of thing. Few characters have any real responsibilities that should prevent them from being wherever's narratively convenient; nobody goes to school, nobody has a real job, money basically doesn't exist. Throw in a quick justification for why they're in that particular place, and as long as they justify their presence through their role in the actual story I don't think it matters much why they first show up. The story you tell with the characters is much more important than the logistics of how they end up in place for it to start.

Heck the characters that do have responsibilities those are responsibilities are often ignored or in some cases just being removed. Silver is just trying to figure out what's up with the future in the past.  Blaze despite being a princess is around and sega doesn't really ever acknowledged she's from another world anymore anyway ( i mean at that point just merge her world with sonic's world I mean there's no reason why she just couldn't exist on another part of sonic's planet with a buncha islands and stuff but i'm rambling). They don't seem to care about Knuckles with the M.E anymore, and as we recently learn none of the members of team dark work for gun and also according to people in charge they aren't even a team. A lot of the more recent efforts , even mentioned by iizuka in an interview seem to be attempts to make characters who are more malleable. Which is good or bad depending on what you like i'm not really gonna judge you. And it doesn't necessarily excuse lack of storytelling. But they are malleable.

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YES, I DID IT!!! I reached very arbitrary goal of having equal number of Posts and Reputation Points. Statistically everything I said is worth something Woooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...and now by making this post I probably lost that goal. Umm, sorry for off-topic.

Can  I recommend a reviews? "Hedging Your Bets" by Chris Sims

He has only loose idea what happened in games, and started reading Archie Sonic with "Genesis" Arc. That's awful way to get into the comics, yet dude managed to approach the subject with leveled head and objectivity. He has unique observations, fair sense of humor and is surprisingly positive about stuff I was pretty harsh when they came out. Sadly he stopped in middle of Unite, so I doubt he'll ever make IDW Sonic.

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The IDW run has 17 issues, a one shot, and an Annual out so far. Archie Sonic has almost 300 issues of Sonic the Hedgehog, nearly a 100 issues of Sonic Universe, 32 issues of Knuckles the Echidna, 8 Specials and 15 Super Specials, as well as a few other things, with the Archie continuity somewhere around 450 issues. Include Sonic X and Sonic Boom comics, that bumps it up to near 500. I don't think there is anything wrong in saying which one you prefer, but frankly, I think it is impossible to do any real comparison because IDW is still very much in its infancy and has, what, not even 5% of the quantity Archie had built up?

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9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really? He rambles listing things he likes, without saying a single argument why he likes them.

All he could say about Archie was  "became like fanfic" and "it got weird with love triangles", which is really ignoring everything Flynn wrote (...fine, everything past House of Cards). And calling out furries is just confusing in many ways.

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen. Is any of this a fanfic furry soap-opera?

THANK YOU!The fan fiction/soup opera stopped A LONG TIME before the comic got cancelled!If people keep bringing up how the comics was at first and ignore how it changed how can they expect people to stop wanting it back just to show them that it improved?

9 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

Bringing up problems that haven’t (or hadn’t) been relevant for years to “prove” their point is a common trait of blind Archie Sonic haters.

Exactly

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13 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Personally I prefer if one day Sonic walks into city with GUN soldier and humnas, and no comments. Just like that. After all this is how game treat it.

This is pretty unsolvable. Sega made this mess, Flynn should not waste his talents trying to fix it. I know usually he does that, but this time it's not worth it.

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Archie has the advantage that it has more than 450 issues combined with specials, miniseries, spin-offs, yet why does most of that world-building/backstory/etc. still suck? Reboot was all world building and hardly entertaining, tons of new characters introduced in almost each issue, trying to fill in the past coming from a long (gone) timeline. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you guys can repeat the same things, why can't I?

This book is only 17 issues in, and it's already more consistent in its tone, action, entertainment, it's not so special, but it's still great (aside from Fallout which had no progress), it has a more focused cast, more simple approach that EVERYONE can read. But I'm not surprised that fans of continuity and world building dislike it, it's okay to have opinions.

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But uh...being easy to get into at the expense of...any kind of world to be invested in doesn't give most of the returning audience much. I do believe that's their problem, people don't want all world building...das stupid.

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1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic X already did that, both SA1 and 2. The two worlds shtick is far older than people seem to realise. 

And Battle, of all things. Very very loosely, but it was still there. 

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You know IDW is truly interesting and sustaining people when they insist on comparing to Archie.

18 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

I just re-read Archie Reboot. Mega Drive, Championship, Cassia & Clove, Eggman Dozen.

The story that actually focuses on the Pronghorns is called Hidden Costs, just so you know.

 

16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Heck the characters that do have responsibilities those are responsibilities are often ignored or in some cases just being removed. Silver is just trying to figure out what's up with the future in the past.  Blaze despite being a princess is around and sega doesn't really ever acknowledged she's from another world anymore anyway ( i mean at that point just merge her world with sonic's world I mean there's no reason why she just couldn't exist on another part of sonic's planet with a buncha islands and stuff but i'm rambling). They don't seem to care about Knuckles with the M.E anymore, and as we recently learn none of the members of team dark work for gun and also according to people in charge they aren't even a team. A lot of the more recent efforts , even mentioned by iizuka in an interview seem to be attempts to make characters who are more malleable. Which is good or bad depending on what you like i'm not really gonna judge you. And it doesn't necessarily excuse lack of storytelling. But they are malleable.

Honestly/personally, I find it a little hard to care at this point. For the most part, anyway.

Unless the story actually depends on it, Knuckles and Silver not being where they belong at any given time isn't much of an issue. Knuckles has been around more than long enough(across at least 3 major eras even) for any stressing on him not being on Angel Island every waking hour to be kinda moot at this point, so he doesn't bother me even half of the time. And timetravel's so frequent yet flimsy in this series that while he does actually need a quick reason/justification for his presence, Silver seldom does anything major let alone separate enough from what Sonic & friends are already doing to make his occasional appearances anything to worry too much about. 

Travel from the Sol Dimension is a different story due to the stakes that are grandfathered in on top of there actually being locales and a citizenry that needs to be looked after. The general rule with Blaze seems to be that as long as she has control over the Sol Emeralds, everything's kosher and she can hop dimensions every once in a blue moon as available from her duties. So while the window is much tighter on her by necessity, all it takes is an appropriate explanation or plot development to get her there.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Who wants Flynn to clarify the 2 worlds in the comic?? Maybe he can work around that and still make SA's story coherent.

Sonic Adventure's story is coherent.

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter. 

4 hours ago, Psycho_Jack said:

 yet why does most of that world-building/backstory/etc. still suck?

"Oh gee, why don't you tell us!"

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14 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Really, it's just as simple as one character going "I need to hop over to Westopolis to pick something up." Barring the story actually being big enough to reference the two worlds being endanger, it's not really a pressing matter.

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

So mystic ruins is in the mobian world.

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

According to Sonic Adventure, it's been connected to Station Square via train and NOT Angel Island for a long time. 

So no.

Mystic ruins is the home of the echidnas, Tikal, Big, Tails and his workshop, and Angel Island!!

So the train is like a portal train. It's not so hard to imagine.

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