Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Diogenes]

They stuck Knuckles' egg in the freezer and forgot about it and then the power went out 1000 years later and thus he was born.

[Sega DogTagz]

Angel Island is a harsh environment in a lot of stretches. Maybe the last batch of Echidna's were just super stubborn (or super dedicated to protecting the Master Emerald) and chose to die out in seclusion rather than move somewhere more hospitable.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I feel like Knuckles childhood is a mystery that will never be explained and frankly I'm  kinda fine with that.

He didn't even knew about Chaos, that's a big oversight in his education. Maybe last echidnas were so ashamed of their past that they didn't tell stories to their kids, just assured them that protecting ME is very important. Maybe it goes even further, maybe echidnas intentionally didn't reproduced, understanding that their times is over  (just keep one bloke every generation to be guardian).
Or maybe something big happened that wiped out remaining echidnas and Knuckles suffers amnesia (that would explain his bad preparation).

We all remember Penders and his hidden city and spying dads. In Fleetway echidnas just 'left' and Knucles is apparently waiting for them (and to be fair, he knows much more about island). In STC-Online they added that he's lived in Tikal's times, but he's connected to magic crystal  (not ME) that keeps resurrecting him, even if he lost some of his memories.

So there are plenty of possible answers, either too dark or confusing (or just disappointing) to spend game explaining them. If I was Sega I would celebrate Knuckles anniversary by publishing comic that "is-or-isn't-canon. your-choice-fans" that gives us  answers. But that's just me.

[Kellodrawsalot]

I agree, I dont need more echidna's in the story, since him being the last is part of the game lore, and its a fine mystery, no need for the bonkers-Penders route. If anything I rather would have wanted Sonic Boom to introduce more Echidna's since Knuckles himself story and role wasnt the same there anyway.

I did like the quick fan character scene as Ian Flynn was trying to show why Sonic would work with Tails or Cream despite their age, and it shows Sonic being a populair character that everyone wants to join.

[Red Hot Jack]

More Archie comparisons? I thought those were wrong

Anyway, no… I really DON'T want to see more echidnas, I love how Knuckles is the last of his kind, it makes him special, I also liked his backstory in SA1 so don't touch that, please, have just Knuckles and ghost Tikal (as special guest).

I kind of liked the Nocturnus and Chronicles stuff tbh, but that was a rehash of Penders' stuff so eeeeh, not sure I want them back, besides the fact that SEGA lost the rights to that stuff some time ago.

[Kazhnuz]

Honestly, I've got no problem with the "Knuckles is the last of his kind" lore element. It add a "loneliness" theme to the character, and could be really exploited to be something more. Knuckles won't ever find anybody like him and that's pretty sad, but that's what is interesting.

I really feel that instead of making "new echidna", it could be interesting to create another species that is "old-and-nearly-dead", but with a few survivor, and play with Knuckles having a mixt of understanding and maybe a bit of envy ? It would be quite easy to also tie them to the Knuckles tribe (IDK, maybe another civilisation near that got attacked by the Knuckles tribe so hard that the tribes became something that terrified them ? Or they become nearly-drown by Chaos being not-happy™ and knew somehow that was the Echidna that were the causes - maybe even thinking that was intentionnal against them, in a bit of paranoïa ? It could even be a bit funny if Knuckles have no clues of who they are xD), and make them either hating Knuckles or being afraid by him (or both ?). And that's just one of the possibilities to tell a lot of stories with the theme of "the ancient civilisation linked to Knuckles". Sure, it wouldn't be the exact same stories than the one told with the Echidna, but many of the themes can be present (even Knuckles considering having responsabilities against them, because sure Knuckles is "loyal-good" enough to feel responsabilities for the action of the action of his plan when other actual people are involved). And that's just one of the possibilities. There are a lot of possibilities to make interesting things with Knuckles, and trying to play with his past is only one of them. Explore how he seem himself, his role. Make him see people making the same mistakes he did and want to help them… etc, etc.

TBH, I feel that it's a "mandate"/"lore element" that we had a bit of a tendancies to make a bit too much fuss about. It's pretty easy to work around and to create even more interesting stuff with it. Honestly I think that a little to none of these "mandate" or "restriction" are a real problem, in themselves. For me, the question should be more about what kind of stories, what kind of way of writing the character can we do with these instructions, these constraint. (and I said the french oulipo movement, constraint are often a way to have more creativity, as we have to do what we want with some condition, forcing us to search some creative solution)

[Splash the Otter]

Can I just ask why Knuckles has to be the last of his kind? I mean when you get down to it, what does it really add to him as a character?

Plus it doesn't make sense for every echidna in the world to have been part of the same tribe.

[Kellodrawsalot]

37 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Can I just ask why Knuckles has to be the last of his kind? I mean when you get down to it, what does it really add to him as a character?

Plus it doesn't make sense for every echidna in the world to have been part of the same tribe.

It adds to his back story , also this is a world where Hedgehogs are blue and Rabbits can fly, Knuckles being the only echidna isnt that weird.

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 hour ago, Splash the Otter said:

Can I just ask why Knuckles has to be the last of his kind? I mean when you get down to it, what does it really add to him as a character?

Plus it doesn't make sense for every echidna in the world to have been part of the same tribe.

Let's see.
1 It just a snazy tittle that makes him more mysterious. "Ultimate Lifeform" is pretty meaningless too, but sounds awesome.
2 It emphasizes his loner nature, same as Frenchmen would feel living in Britain. Granted, he might never meet other echidna, but that what makes it interesting. He doesn't know if meeting other echidna would change his life. And he will never learn that, but probably will wonder.
3 With no other echidna, duty to Master Emerald and sins or Pachacamat are only his burden, thus making him way serious about his job.
4 It's a simple, yet sad backstory, that makes him more relatable.
5 While logic behind powers in Sonic is loose, with no other echidna Knuckles has unique power set (gliding, climbing, digging) that probably no other fictional character has.
6 It forces official artists to use different species, thus making cast more colorful. We all remember Penders and his amazing designs.

Also don't think of echidnas as animals like cats, but as nationality like Aztec (which BTW, I'm pretty sure were wiped out). I'm guessing animal races back then stuck to 'their own kind', Same thing is with Babylon Rouges, who all were birds.

[SBR2]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 5:24 PM, PublicEnemy1 said:

It'd be an even duller story if the hero always won.

So...Evil should triumph? That's a pretty uninteresting narrative. Also I'd hardly call what Sonic's currently going through winning. Of course the Bad Guy's gonna lose and the hero's gonna win. that's how stories work. If I wanted to see bad guys winning I'd watch the news.

Stories are for fantasy that maybe good people can triumph no matter the odds. The Power Rangers always beat the monsters, He-Man always thwarts Skeletor, The Avengers find a way.

Why is that when Sonic wins people find it dull? This is how stories have worked for centuries.

[StaticMania]

10 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Why is that when Sonic wins people find it dull? This is how stories have worked for centuries.

And then nobody cared and still wanted the bad guys to win.

People aren't like me, so the people that actually want the bad guys to win really just want something different...a new status quo...or to see what a villain does or how they change when they actually succeed.

[Diogenes]

5 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Can I just ask why Knuckles has to be the last of his kind? I mean when you get down to it, what does it really add to him as a character?

A sense of loneliness and isolation, a bit of a tragic past, more weight to his role as the guardian of the Master Emerald...

5 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Plus it doesn't make sense for every echidna in the world to have been part of the same tribe.

Why not? Echidnas IRL haven't exactly spread across the planet; some animals simply live in a pretty narrow range. And when you've got a bunch of animal people running around it's pretty natural to map the different species to different ways that humans classify each other, whether it's tribes or nations or whatever. 

[DabigRG]

All this talk about Rad Red's complicated background and motivation makes me with Thrash and possibly Maw had gotten to stick around.

[ComeAsYouAre]

Thrash's backstory made the Echidna look worse than Unit 731, that was a bit too much for the series 

[Kellodrawsalot]

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

So...Evil should triumph? That's a pretty uninteresting narrative. Also I'd hardly call what Sonic's currently going through winning. Of course the Bad Guy's gonna lose and the hero's gonna win. that's how stories work. If I wanted to see bad guys winning I'd watch the news.

Stories are for fantasy that maybe good people can triumph no matter the odds. The Power Rangers always beat the monsters, He-Man always thwarts Skeletor, The Avengers find a way.

Why is that when Sonic wins people find it dull? This is how stories have worked for centuries.

I find this to be really confushing too since... Sonic has always Won troughout the entire franchise, games , shows, spin offs alike, except for maybe Sonic Underground, Sonic the dark brotherhood, or Sonic CD, because SU got canceled , the bad ending isn't canon to Sonic CD and Sonic the Dark brotherhood was supposed to be met with a sequel that never happened because lawsuit.

 

It just seems people are only getting upset about ''Knuckles being the only one of his kind'''' or'' Sonic is always supposed to win'' 'because its now confirmed its part of the mandates. 

[Big Panda]

Sonic should always win.

In the end.

Doesn’t mean he can’t go through absolute hell before he does.

[DabigRG]

13 hours ago, Wraith said:

Logically it doesn't make a ton of sense, but it's just something I take at face value.

 

I feel like if Sonic had more actual creatives that were interested in telling stories involved  someone would have tackled this by now. There's probably a story there 

And if they didn't stop doing stuff with Knuckles/Echidnas after SA2(and maybe Riders).

13 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Not necessarily. 

If Pachacamac was already on some sort of war crusade, it's likely that the enemies they made seized an opportunity to keep swiping at them and dwindling their numbers even further down as some sort of cheap retribution once it was realized that they were on their last legs.

Then all of a sudden, "Whoops. There goes our last female."

Oh my goodness.

What does that remind me of, though?

7 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

I agree, I dont need more echidna's in the story, since him being the last is part of the game lore, and its a fine mystery, no need for the bonkers-Penders route. If anything I rather would have wanted Sonic Boom to introduce more Echidna's since Knuckles himself story and role wasnt the same there anyway.

 

That's a fair point, actually.

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

5 While logic behind powers in Sonic is loose, with no other echidna Knuckles has unique power set (gliding, climbing, digging) that probably no other fictional character has.

Well, aside from Rouge.

39 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Thrash's backstory made the Echidna look worse than Unit 731, that was a bit too much for the series 

Eh, it made sense given the Preboot Echidnas and all.

Besides, you can always tweak/tone it down without losing the general idea given SA1, which is what they originally intended to do.

[Badnik Zero]

7 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

It forces official artists to use different species, thus making cast more colorful. We all remember Penders and his amazing designs.

I don’t know if these were designed by Penders or by the artists under Archie at the time. The artist for Knuckles was Manny Galan, who was pretty consistent with his quality. He went on to do Transformers comics.

Not saying 20 echidnas of the same shade of red is a good idea though. But I don’t know how I would solve the problem either. It can’t be that hard to make different looking characters in the same species. Height, build, hair, shoes, brow, color, clothing... Uhhh scars/tattoos/robotic enhancements?

The thing about saying someone is the last of his kind is that it naturally begs an origin story. We have that for his tribe, but not for Knuckles himself. Some will want it and some won’t. I don’t think the Penders concept of an old technological race is a bad idea at heart, it plays to Atlantis or alien pyramid type tropes. It’s also where Sega/BioWare went when asked to make a more involved backstory for Knuckles. I don’t think Ian or anyone at Sega wants to do that again though.

I don’t need more Echindas in a potential Knuckles story, but a set of lore for him and why he is alone makes sense in an expanded universe. Which is what the comics should be.

[DabigRG]

24 minutes ago, Badnik Zero said:

I don’t know if these were designed by Penders or by the artists under Archie at the time. The artist for Knuckles was Manny Galan, who was pretty consistent with his quality. He went on to do Transformers comics.

Not saying 20 echidnas of the same shade of red is a good idea though. But I don’t know how I would solve the problem either. It can’t be that hard to make different looking characters in the same species. Height, build, hair, shoes, brow, color, clothing... Uhhh scars/tattoos/robotic enhancements?

Yeah, see, that's kinda the thing I think of when it comes to the designs of some Archie characters, but especially the Brotherhood and some other Echidna characters.

It's like, what are you supposed to do with that situation? Knuckles was the only example in the games and if you want to have more echidnas in a Sonic related property, you have to look at him and be able to associate them as the same species.

And not for nothing, some of them had some pretty neat/distinct designs about them. Sure, Locke initially being "Knuckles as Obi-Wan Kenobi" was a littel graceless, but since he's also meant to be his dad, there's not too much wiggle room.

24 minutes ago, Badnik Zero said:

 It’s also where Sega/BioWare went when asked to make a more involved backstory for Knuckles.

Uh, actually that was partly because SEGA gave them issues of the comics when they asked for ideas on background related to Knuckles.

Hehehe, woops.

[Badnik Zero]

Which is why we have an IDW comic to begin with. So... “Where does Knuckles come from” is actually the most problematic question in the series. 

[StaticMania]

The least problematic.

Making it just slightly less interesting than normal.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Uh, actually that was partly because SEGA gave them issues of the comics when they asked for ideas on background related to Knuckles.

Hehehe, woops.

Where was this stated? Got the source?

[SBR2]

3 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

Sonic should always win.

In the end.

Doesn’t mean he can’t go through absolute hell before he does.

I'm not arguing he shouldn't go through trouble. He's currently going through some in the comics. I mean I'd call being completely unable to solve the problem his standard way and watching his friends basically die before his eyes a low point.

But the way people talk it sounds like they want Eggman to have a full complete victory and that's just not a satisfying narrative. 

[StaticMania]

Just now, SBR2 said:

...that's just not a satisfying narrative. 

Maybe it just wouldn't be satisfying to you.

[SBR2]

Just now, StaticMania said:

Maybe it just wouldn't be satisfying to you.

I don't find the idea of the hero failing interesting no. Who the hell would want to follow a series where the hero keeps losing?