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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


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37 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

If for some reason they couldn't get Flynn, who would you guys be ok with being the writer?

 

Anybody but Penders? ™ © ®

I'm just damn glad they got Ian, even with the odd ups and downs he has with his writing, he has great love and respect for the franchise, and knows the characters and lore the way a fan does. Perhaps not as much of a zelot as some of us, but more than your average person or newer fan. I couldn't think of any one I would rather have as the lead to be honest.

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The last time Flynn got a "blank slate" to work with, he whipped up what is probably the strongest all around set of characters the comics have ever had, and that goes from the top (Sonic and Eggman) all the way through the regional hazards (Egg Bosses and local FFs).

I'm 1000% behind bringing Flynn on board with IDW and I feel greatly assured that even if we can't get all or even some of our old favorite characters back, that at the very least I will have a well designed and competent adventure to get behind. 

I'm also digging the quickfire release schedule for the first 4 issues. Thats how you get fans on board right there. (I wonder if they will be keeping the 4 issue arc structure...)

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Besides the obvious character choices we know will appear often enough... The characters I want to see appear are Blaze. Sticks. Shade. Fang, and the hard boiled heavies... I really hope Blaze can get her own solo side story arc this time around!

Can't say I was really reading the comics much before, So I have no problem with Ian Flynn back, as it'll all be new to me if I start picking these up!

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The Hard Boiled Heavies!! That's a good point, I wonder if Ian will try factor them in anywhere, especially with Mania being so recent and such a hit for Sega, and the possibility of them being in Forces. Perhaps even elaborate on their importance before the Phantom Ruby had it's way with them. Were they a squad, individual random bots, generals of sorts to the Egg Robo units?

Still gutted it's "Modern" only even tho it makes sense with it being his current incarnation. Perhaps once it has solid footing they could consider a "Classic" series alongside it, or as special occasional or situational mini series like Mega Drive (which I'm still upset I won't see the end of).

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I'm starting to realize more and more just how much I actually don't want the Freedom Fighters to return.

I don't think it's all that possible at the moment, but the idea of it is kind of putting my mood down a tad. I suppose it's just because of how I initially viewed this whole thing. Thinking it more of a brand new clean slate where we can just get a Sonic comic and go into something that became it's own awesome thing rather than feeling like it was a bit of a holdover from the dynamic it had before.

I tried my best to get into the whole Freedom Fighters thing and it didn't work. When the reboot happened, things were a little better but getting over the hump of that whole Sky Patrol thing where Sonic and Tails still felt like police-man who got to throw people in animal prison just didn't work for me. Seeing the IDW thing come around got me really jazzed to see something completely new on all fronts. A new direction, a new writer, and a new take on what a Sonic comic could be. Like a comic that was based on the world from the games but actually had the freedom and talent to make that world more fleshed out, interesting, and character driven. Kind of like the Archie comics but with a completely different set-up. 

Considering the supposedly new circumstances behind what he can do with this book, things will undoubtedly be incredibly different despite Ian Flynn coming back (I hope) but there's still the part of me that really would have been interested in seeing someone else have a crack at it. Again, I don't begrudge them for this or anything. Ian was the obvious and safe bet for them to go for. That fantasy element of what I figured this might end up being was just a tad diluted. That's all. 

But the added angle of the Freedom Fighters coming back would just be a bit too much for me on that front. If they do return it would at the very least need to be something completely different from the role they had in the comics beforehand for me to fully appreciate the incorporation. I wouldn't necessarily like it still but this comic isn't being made for just me. I understand there's people who really do just want a continuation of what they were getting before for years on end and that's understandable. Nothing really wrong with that.

I'm good with the binders full of comics I already have of that continuity though. I'm totally ready for something more freeing from it. Ironically, being in the Freedom Fighters actually kept Sonic and Tails from feeling like they were free spirits to me. 

It's not even like I hate the characters really. I hated Sally once upon a time but that cooled off considerably when the reboot happened and she wasn't pushed as the romantic foil who also sometimes just spoke with extremely boring authority and wasn't fun to watch or read... she still wasn't entertaining at all but it was way more ignorable after the Genesis Wave. Antione I always liked actually. Rotor was a fine fellow. Bunnie was okay I guess. Didn't really care about her one way or the other. 

It's just the Freedom Fighters system that I hate honestly. 

I still currently don't think they'll come back but enough people seem to think it's plausible that I've got my ear to the floor anyway.

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I don't understand how including characters like the Freedom Fighters or whoever negates it being a "clean slate." As long as there are other characters returning-- any other characters returning-- it's not a true clean slate.

"Oh, but they can do different things with those official characters now," you might say. Well, no, not really. As they said in the panel, they've got to remain true to the game characters, but they could probably rework the FF as needed to better fit. They've done it before, after all, they can do it again.

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Okay, serious thoughts now that I've sobered up (copypasted from Reddit):

The Good:

* Flynn's back. I'm a *little bit* torn on it? Part of me wanted to see some new blood working on the comics, but he's basically what made them good to begin with. I did probably want him back more, since he'll probably push for the Freedom Fighters, even if nothing comes of it. Makes sense that they'd at least want him to establish the new comics, and hopefully more writers are brought in later.

* Its going to have its own universe separate from the games. My main fear (once I accepted the Archieverse was dead and not continuing, RIP) was that SEGA was going to clamp down on them and only allow them in the game's universe and have to directly tie into them. Anyone who's looked at Sonic's overarching timeline knows this would be impossible. Also, no several versions of Sonic running around, thank God.

* It seems like IDW's being given more creative freedom by SEGA in general. The Archie staff relayed a lot of mandates from SEGA on what they can and can't do, and it feels like they're laxing that a bit with IDW now. I honestly don't know how much that means, since I don't see why IDW would get a pass when post-reboot Archie didn't, though some believe the proclaimed mandates were exaggerated anyways.

The bad:

* I've come to terms with the Freedom Fighters joining Sonia and Manic, the Metarex, Mighty, the Babylon Rogues, etc. in the Forgotten Characters Club. But I seriously didn't like the way they answered that question when it inevitably came up. The vague politispeak felt more scathing than just a hard "no." Anyone who isn't delusional knows they're not coming back, and the longer this is drawn out the harder the backlash will be when they just say it.

* Honestly, most of the questions were answered the same way, with "stay tuned^TM!" Its like in Zootopia: "Respond to their question with a question of your own, and answer *that* question." Not to mention most of the questions were pretty bad to begin with (pretty sure there were repeat questions, and a lot had to do with the Archie comics, and one even mentioned Fleetway. But I dropped out several times because it hurt my eyes to look at my phone). They should've just spoken and given out what details they had to start with, *then* opened the floor to questions.

* One piece of skepticism about Flynn coming back: Unless he can recycle a bunch of original characters from the Archieverse (Meropis, Egg Bosses, Eclipse, etc.) I'm not sure if he can really establish this universe as well. I doubt when he was developing the post-reboot Archieverse that he had a contingent of backup supporting characters in case of another reboot/cancellation. I'll hold out a small amount of hope, but I prefer cynicism to false hope.

* Its a good thing I can't go to panels like this. Odds are I'd have turned up wasted and gotten kicked out for arguing with the panel over trivial bullshit.

EDIT: One more, again me getting worked up for petty reasons: I have 2 complaints about the art Tyson Hesse put out. First, I think the designs looked too close to Classic for me, which fueled my (now debased) concerns about it being games/Classic-centric. Honestly, before I saw Amy, I thought they *were* Classic designs. Second: Kind of tying into me being hung up on the Freedom Fighters again, but: One of the main complaints I see levied against them is that they're a "shoe-in" to the old continuity, Sonic doesn't need to hang around with a team besides him and Tails, etc. but then I wonder why Amy (whom Sonic constantly avoids) and Knuckles (who should be guarding the Master Emerald) get a free pass on being stuck with Sonic all the time. I never liked the philosophy of the "Core 4," even before I read the comics and was introduced to the FF. I'd have felt better if the promo art was *just* Sonic or Sonic and Tails. But whatever.

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If the Freedom Fighters don't end up making a return... then I guess I'll enjoy whatever carbon copy clones of the Freedom Fighters the editorial deparment give the green-light to. We should get used to Princess Sandra, Bun. E. Robbit and Motor the Seal while we still can.

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1 hour ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I don't understand how including characters like the Freedom Fighters or whoever negates it being a "clean slate." As long as there are other characters returning-- any other characters returning-- it's not a true clean slate.

 

"Oh, but they can do different things with those official characters now," you might say. Well, no, not really. As they said in the panel, they've got to remain true to the game characters, but they could probably rework the FF as needed to better fit. They've done it before, after all, they can do it again.

If you're talking about characters from the main series returning then I can't really agree. If the idea here is that if any Sonic characters returning to a Sonic the Hedgehog comic makes it ineligible to be considered a clean slate then I don't understand that position. Saying that in order for it to be considered a clean slate, it'd need to not have any Sonic characters at all sounds like it'd be the same thing as saying it shouldn't be a Sonic the Hedgehog comic period. It's a bit too hyperbolic for me.

I'm more talking about the situational hazard the Freedom Fighters held. Their entire system and the position and role they were given in the comics. I also mentioned in my post that they could be given a new, re-worked position to better fit the situation. If they have done it before, then I haven't seen it yet.

If you're someone who views the Freedom Fighters system (not even really the characters themselves) as a holdover from a set-up that you'd rather not see happen again, then yeah, it would function as part of a definitive clean slate to not see it return. When the initial reboot happened, I did see the new Sky Patrol thing as just being a slightly modified version of leftover baggage from a situation surrounding the characters that I didn't wish to see repeated again. 

There's also the fact that I naturally can't help but not view the Freedom Fighters in the same light as the ones from the mainstream games. There's characters who originated in TV shows that I like a lot. I'd take Bocoe and Decoe over Orbot and Cubot probably. I still can't help the fact that despite liking them more, I see Orbot and Cubot in a more definitive position that ties them to what a default Sonic the Hedgehog foundation would be. I have trouble doing that with Mighty the Armadillo and Ray actually. And they're official game characters. They just feel so "scrapped" that seeing them show up still feels a bit strange.

That's an issue that exists on an individual basis though. To me, they're characters from a long cancelled TV show that were put on life-support when the comics outlasted it, filling a role that at best I felt should have been a cameo position rather than one that dominated the book and the way it was told.

 

 

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So it's still not confirmed that the other Archie characters are returning. On the other hand, Flynn is back as a writer, can't wait to see what he can do to this new comic, since there's more creative freedom in here than in Archie.

And since there's more freedom, maybe we can see characters like Eggman Nega appear?

I was thinking the panel would reveal some more of the creative team, like other artists and colorists, but that didn't happen.

April can't come soon enough. Since there's gonna be 4 issues in that month!

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42 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Hesse isn't doing interior work.

Well there goes half my interest in this.

34 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I don't understand how including characters like the Freedom Fighters or whoever negates it being a "clean slate." As long as there are other characters returning-- any other characters returning-- it's not a true clean slate.

Obviously any work based on an existing work can't be 100% blank slate, but the Freedom Fighters are tied to two very specific interpretations of the series, while core characters like Sonic and Eggman are foundational; there's been plenty of Sonic continuities without the Freedom Fighters, but you simply can't have a Sonic series without Sonic. Even just being "the Freedom Fighters" carries some very strong implications/expectations.

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I'm fine with ditching the FF thing, but I still think the characters can be used without dredging up past stuff. They just need to be given the chance and have something of the sort done with them.

Heck, look at the Chaotix; I'm pretty sure the Classic versions occupy the minority of mindshare compared to what's been done since the Modern versions were introduced.

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3 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Heck, look at the Chaotix; I'm pretty sure the Classic versions occupy the minority of mindshare compared to what's been done since the Modern versions were introduced.

Well yes, that's because they were incredibly minor characters left to rot for years before being radically retooled, and not characters that people followed for decades in a comic that only recently ended. The mark the original Chaotix left on the games is almost imperceptible; the mark the Freedom Fighters left on Sonic comics is almost immeasurable.

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The Chaotix were in the comics for much longer, and did see the same change, though -- only teased pre-reboot, but fully embraced after.

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The concern for me is using the same material and same writer can result in the same or very similar thing. Recycling characters from Archie can drag in the backstory/connection they had because that’s what defines then and people loved about them. Also, some writers occasionally fall into using the same/similar formula and character portrayals. Especially if it’s for the same subject, same concept, and same main characters. Not saying Ian does that, but I’m sure it will be harder the more material they recycle.

Example: If they want to add Sally and her friends people would want them as Freedom Fighters, because that was their defining trait. And if they are Freedom Fighters people would associate it with Eggman ruling the world again, with local FFs and EggBosses. Then people may want them to have frequent appearances with Sonic and thus Archie 2.0.

Who knows, maybe IDW can keep the FF as cameos. Maybe they can pull off giving them totally different roles. But if using them as main or frequent characters, I worry if they can keep the world different. Ian can try, but I don’t know if he can completely shut out how he thought of the characters during Archie.

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3 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

The Chaotix were in the comics for much longer, and did see the same change, though -- only teased pre-reboot, but fully embraced after.

The main point is that the Chaotix's impact on the series isn't really comparable;  people didn't even know they existed before Heroes.

 

Meanwhile, practically everybody who grew up in the 90's knows who the Freedom Fighters are, and their subsequent appearances in the main book

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At this point, I'd take spiritual successors to the FFs over nothing, don't get me wrong, I'll miss the 252 FFs dearly but it would be better than no FFs at all.

The only thing I won't miss from Post reboot Archie are the Sky Patrol and the general FF system like Mike said above.

Sonic shouldn't be living on a ship, he should be running free in the world wherever he goes. 

I've always found the whole general idea of a KND type organization of FFs to be rather stupid because all they do is just have a bunch of charcaters who are the "whatever Freedom Fighters" that Sonic helps an issue. It's kinda dumb when you start to think about it.

I never really flowed with the idea of Sonic, Tails, and Team Rose even being on the team in the first place, it just felt kinda off putting seeing characters like Big and Cream being dedicated to their lives serving as super hero agents instead of living their lives how they are in the games. (Fishing, living with mother, etc.) 

Being in action is great for them, but not 24/7.

This is why I 100% agree that if the FFs return, they become a completely separate group who are Sonic and Tails longtime friends that appear occasionally like the rest of the cast.

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I never really had a problem with the whole Freedom Fighter thing since I always considered Archie it's own thing. I mean, I don't see anyone complaining (at least as much as before...) about Boom being mostly a sitcom-comedy. It's a different continuity with it's own take on the series, even if it is derivative.

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I think I really like the Freedom Fighters, both individually and as a group...just not a group that Sonic is part of. They can do their own thing, be a part of Universe issues (although huh, I guess that series might be 100% dead), but I think that they, as cliche as it might sound, slow Sonic down. He can't just be the hero who goes fast all over the place when the FFs are involved, and that is a problem for me.

Please bring back the Egg army though. I need them.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I never really had a problem with the whole Freedom Fighter thing since I always considered Archie it's own thing. I mean, I don't see anyone complaining (at least as much as before...) about Boom being mostly a sitcom-comedy. It's a different continuity with it's own take on the series, even if it is derivative.

Archie being it's own thing was the excuse I used for why I never got "ANGRY" about it. However, preferences for what I'd have liked to have seen still stood. 

It's okay for it to be it's own thing but whether or not you're okay with what the differences are is dependant on the person. 

And even then, it might not even be the case that you prefer it that way even if you do generally like what it is just fine. I like the Sonic Boom TV show for what it is but if someone came along and said "We're making a new Sonic Anime that was based entirely around the world of the games" or something like that I'd probably get so excited I might have had a heart attack. 

Different continuities exist for tons of different things. I can't be bothered to count how many different versions of Batman there are. Still, I'm willing to bet some are more beloved than others because the general consensus for what the fans collectively or personally want out of a Batman series differed enough to make the unfamiliar elements a sticking point for them.

As for me, my circumstances are what's keeping me so tightly gripped to what I'd want out of this new comic. I REALLY want a Sonic the Hedgehog comic that takes the game's world as it is today and just goes for it. Something new and fully developed from an extremely familiar default as the base of the thing. I've wanted something like that ever since I was a kid and I'm finally in a position to where that's not a dream anymore. It's legitimately possible now. I don't want a dynamic from an old cartoon from the 90s to come in and completely dominate how the book functions and I don't want any of the baggage from the Archie continuity to creep it's head back in. I'm looking for a nice, clean, fresh start that I can just comfortably read on my own. 

I'm sure the circumstances and priorities for the people who grew up with the Archie comics as they were are entirely different. In fact, I know from some of the responses here that they're different but it can't be helped. 

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Archie being it's own thing was the excuse I used for why I never got "ANGRY" about it. However, preferences for what I'd have liked to have seen still stood. 

It's okay for it to be it's own thing but whether or not you're okay with what the differences are is dependant on the person. 

And even then, it might not even be the case that you prefer it that way even if you do generally like what it is just fine. I like the Sonic Boom TV show for what it is but if someone came along and said "We're making a new Sonic Anime that was based entirely around the world of the games" or something like that I'd probably get so excited I might have had a heart attack. 

Different continuities exist for tons of different things. I can't be bothered to count how many different versions of Batman there are. Still, I'm willing to bet some are more beloved than others because the general consensus for what the fans collectively or personally want out of a Batman series differed enough to make the unfamiliar elements a sticking point for them.

As for me, my circumstances are what's keeping me so tightly gripped to what I'd want out of this new comic. I REALLY want a Sonic the Hedgehog comic that takes the game's world as it is today and just goes for it. Something new and fully developed from an extremely familiar default as the base of the thing. I've wanted something like that ever since I was a kid and I'm finally in a position to where that's not a dream anymore. It's legitimately possible now. I don't want a dynamic from an old cartoon from the 90s to come in and completely dominate how the book functions and I don't want any of the baggage from the Archie continuity to creep it's head back in. I'm looking for a nice, clean, fresh start that I can just comfortably read on my own. 

I'm sure the circumstances and priorities for the people who grew up with the Archie comics as they were are entirely different. In fact, I know from some of the responses here that they're different but it can't be helped. 

Well, I get that. I just always stuck with the games, so I never really cared what Archie did until Flynn came on board. And even then I was like "This is a thing, a thing that is cool".

Alternate continuities exist there can be different stories to be told that wouldn't really fly in "main" series. Like Ultimate Spider Man, etc etc.

And think about this way; if you liked the game's setting and characters, well...those will never stop existing. Even if it's underutilized in the game's themselves, it's still there. But now,the people who liked the Archie setting are basically up a creek without a paddle First the reboot, and now this. If I was a major fan of Archie, I'd be pretty upset at how things are going.

I never minded the comics because like I said, they existed separate from the games and vice versa. So if you liked one or the other, people could just stay in their own lane (obviously people would infringe, because it wouldn't be the Sonic fanbase if they didn't complain about something) and never bother each other. 

But now, things are effectively biased in the game's favor and Archie has effectively been left behind. Regardless of how I felt about all of it, I do think it's a shitty thing that people who invested themselves in that character and setting for years have effectively been silenced so to speak. There's always going to be fan projects, but it's not quite the same.

I do like how they starting over from scratch and I'm curious on where things will go, but even as somebody who's not exactly Archie's biggest fan, it has a place in the series` too that I would hate to see get ignored.

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Looking forward to this. I'd rather they not take up characters from the past (Archie) and just make new characters that we'll love. If they do include the FFs, as others have said, they should be supporting, kinda like the Chaotix in where they do their own thing. Either way, it's gonna be interesting.

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58 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I never really had a problem with the whole Freedom Fighter thing since I always considered Archie it's own thing. I mean, I don't see anyone complaining (at least as much as before...) about Boom being mostly a sitcom-comedy. It's a different continuity with it's own take on the series, even if it is derivative.

Maybe because Boom was clearly labeled, while Archie was not labeled?

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