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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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9 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The fact he would actually be trying to protect himself?

Proven to work: Running

Not proven to work: Kaioken

What, but his own arrogance, would lead him to think he could just keep fighting and be alright?

But nah yeah memes killed Shadow, definitely.

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There are a lot of ways shadow could have logically got out of that situation but this is supposed to be an emotional beat so I don't see the point in coming at it from that angle. 

They just could have found a better reason for him to feel compelled to stay and fight besides I Am Mad At Sonic basically.

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21 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Proven to work: Running

Not proven to work: Kaioken

What, but his own arrogance, would lead him to think he could just keep fighting and be alright?

But nah yeah memes killed Shadow, definitely.

You are so jilted about this for no reason. It's not my fault the actual way they wrote the situation simply wasn't as emotionally impactful as they wanted it to be.

I'm not obligated to be alright with it just because you are, nor do I have to justify myself to you. 

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah man I'm the one who's very upset about this situation.

By sardonically answering every post that doesn't align with your own POV. Yea, I'd say you are. 

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SEGA's leaked bío of how the characters must act today:

Sonic - fast and superficial, a jerk, doesn't think, loves chili dogs.

Tails - A smartass who's weak and emotional, a jerk sometimes (bipolar???)

Knuckles - Random serious leader at times, angry and possessive guardian clown when they remember it. Also, Sonic's friendly rival.

Amy - A hacker, someone who gives orders and keeps stuff organized, with hidden feelings for Sonic. A.k.a. the opposite of fangirl.

Dr. Eggman - A buffoon who is still smart but not threatening, still manages to be the final boss every time.

Metal Sonic - *noises*

Shadow - A caricature of Vegeta, fights for his "pride".

Silver - A generic hero that has no use.

Vector - Whatever we want him to be. Obsessed with money and a detective so that's the reason he's always involved.

Blaze - Spin-off only.

Rouge - Shadow's satellite and plot device.

Omega - Destroy. Destroy. Destroy

Orbot / Cubot - comic relief for 2 scenes

Big - Look at how badass he is.

Omochao -  Look at me, I'm an annoying tutorial guy!

Zavok - Eggman's minion and villain fodder

Infinite: WEAK

Cream, Sticks, Espio, Charmy, Jet, Wave, Zazz, and many more: Who is that???

Overall I'd say the comic is doing a great job despite  these crap rules.

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If it were me I don't think I'd have him get turned at this moment anyway but I don't know what kind of restrictions and deadlines theyre under. 

It'd actually probably be better if you didn't try to make this about Shadow's flaws and made it about Sonic instead. Make Shadow being infected something that happens because of a mistake Sonic makes. Then when he has to fight a souped up Shadow it would be a consequence of something he did.

Or, maybe Shadow does something to save Sonic, proving that they'll come through for eachother in the end despite their differences. 

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3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

By sardonically answering every post that doesn't align with your own POV. Yea, I'd say you are. 

Yeah sorry I just don't think "haters and their memes ruined Shadow!" is a position that deserves much more than a laugh.

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For the record, it's not even like I have a problem with this...mostly because it's something I already knew for a long time now. 

I don't really know how you could have written this situation better, but there certainly could have been better ways than what actually happened. But it what it is. 

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah sorry I just don't think "haters and their memes ruined Shadow!" is a position that deserves much more than a laugh.

Even though Sega themselves have done nothing but embrace the memes that haters use against this series for the better part of a decade.  :V

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Outsiders coming in to work on this series for the first time are probably influenced by the perceptions that exist of these characters in the culture. It's not that big of a reach to say that there might be some fault on all the shitposting surrounding this series for the state its in even if It's more complicated than "haters ruined shadow!!"

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

It's giving sega too much credit to think they're this conscious about how Shadow his portrayed. 

I think most of the people who were around when he was conceived are just gone from the company or in higher positions where they don't influence the little details.

It doesn't read like a conscious change to me. Just that they're starting to forget who Shadow is supposed to be

To me, it doesn't really matter if the change is conscious or not. I just find value in observing the fact that there is one. There's not much we can do about it either way, after all. So long as his character has some sort of meaningful agency, it won't really matter to me anyway. That's really the only reason his TSR portrayal stood out as particularly useless.

Also, if anyone cares that much about the Ian story you can just ask the guy for clarification. He's on twitter and he does a podcast where at the end of it he does a Q and A. He answered a question about the portrayal of Amy, I don't see why he wouldn't answer one about Shadow.

There's no guaruntee that you'll definitely get noticed but if it puts a stop to the conspiracy theory stuff I'm all for someone making an actual attempt to seek out an answer.

 

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To elaborate: it's not that I'm saying that the series has become one, large ironic meme.  It's that the public perception of this series has shifted based on content produced, which just so happens to include memes (Because modern culture in general have embraced Internet memes as a way of life).

Shadow has ALWAYS been seen as a shallow parody of Vegeta, even if that wasn't actually the case. That perception was so deeply engrained in pop culture, I'm not surprised that people would automatically assume that's who he actually is, nor am I surprised that perception would eventually bleed into the main products. This is especially if you never grew up in the 2000's, and thus, have no connection at all to his prior characterization.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

 

Ever get the feeling Shadow in Forces was one of those times where it's good because he was barely around?

Nah because shadow in that dlc gets more love than any sonic character gets in like...forever. shadow is a whole ass culmination of his character arc. Homie is cracking jokes and chilled out , yet callous and serious and gives a shit about his friends and what's going on around him. Along with shth remixes no one asked for, there was intent.

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

It's giving sega too much credit to think they're this conscious about how Shadow his portrayed. 

I think most of the people who were around when he was conceived are just gone from the company or in higher positions where they don't influence the little details.

It doesn't read like a conscious change to me. Just that they're starting to forget who Shadow is supposed to be

I dont quite buy that because apparently flynn gets to me with iizuka and sega to Flynn own words is literally hands on with dialog and story details.

I don't think it's about forgetting. They have been doing conscious, noticable soft reformatting of the brand for the last few years and shadows been part of that.  They want to simplify things down but have their adventure pie too. They dont wanna commit to a reboot, they want to change alot. But due to a lot of eh, recent circum stances including the success of sonic mania. They have to quickly decide between embracing that adventure era nostalgia and go full in on that,or a sort of reboot on it.

This the flailing period whilst they make that decision. Shadows characterization has unfortunately been caught in the crossfire. 

Though if can leave this on some future conjecture. I think they are gonna choose reboot. Yeah sonic mania proves that products for specific audiences done well works. But I do not get that sega/sonic team understand, that's why it worked.

 

Now back being sad about spiderman

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13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I don't think it's about forgetting. They have been doing conscious, noticable soft reformatting of the brand for the last few years and shadows been part of that.  They want to simplify things down but have their adventure pie too. They dont wanna commit to a reboot, they want to change alot. But due to a lot of eh, recent circum stances including the success of sonic mania. They have to quickly decide between embracing that adventure era nostalgia and go full in on that,or a sort of reboot on it.

This the flailing period whilst they make that decision. Shadows characterization has unfortunately been caught in the crossfire. 

Though if can leave this on some future conjecture. I think they are gonna choose reboot. Yeah sonic mania proves that products for specific audiences done well works. But I do not get that sega/sonic team understand, that's why it worked.

 

Now back being sad about spiderman

I don't get why they'd deliberately simplify him like that. I have no idea how that would positively affect their brand so I just chalked it up to careless writing.

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One more thing, folks are talking about outsiders who have come to work on this series? Who? In this scenario there isn't someone who's been down to clown for years.

And in the case if games, I dont know you ever worked for a corperate IP but.. it isnt some old guy from back in the day telling you who they are. Sometimes you can ask for extra insight, but it's mostly documentation with bare essentials on it. And they you present what you have created and they yes or no or give you tips... or yell sometimes there is yelling depending. Even younger people would just get the documentation. And while say iizuka is in higher positions he would be the one who knows and is approving on what's on that documentation and would be at the meetings generally to approve interpretations of the IP.

And I feel like what we are seeing is instead of influencers ruining a character ( which indont believe for a few reasons) or management not being around, we are looking at a company make a choice in franchise direction and shadows character is simply the most direct and noticable result of that

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Forgive me if I’m misremembering how Shadow’s inhibitors work, it’s been forever since I’ve seen 06, but doesn’t the use or rather, non use of Shadow’s inhibitors end up draining him of his energy? 

It’s possible originally he was going to misinterpret Sonic’s advice from “If you get infected, run to burn it off” to “speed is a natural shield to the infection”, causing him to turn off his inhibitors to blast through the zombots, only for his energy to drain, and leaving him a target, or when he stops, he touched so many zombots that the infection nearly immediately turns him without a chance to burn it off.

The other thing is IIRC, in 06, he gained a sort of shockwave shield that he used to plow through multiple clones of Mephiles, so his intention might’ve been to use that to shield himself, only for it to backfire.

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Just now, Wraith said:

I don't get why they'd deliberately simplify him like that. I have no idea how that would positively affect their brand so I just chalked it up to careless writing.

There are a few reasons two main ones In think of are

1) they want to use him with no caveats. Much like with knuckles shadow is popular. Shadows so popular that even in things like sonic boom, he was included originally intended as a white ranger of sorts. And this is speculative, but I get the feeling right now shadow might be more popular than he has been in years. There's an adventure sentiment brewing due to time past, the reboot/remaster climate we live in , along with the success of sonic mania has got people on a "adventure remakes/ adventure mania". I think sega notices this in 2014 has been making brand descions to try and capitalize on that more actively. Starting with sonic boom of all things.

2) sega or sonic team has a history of misinterpreting why things work. With criticism and praise. I also think they have interpreted the success of classic's return as him being simpler and back to basics. Instead of him being the thing that he was, unapologetically.

Those two things in combination with them wanting to tell simpler stories is why we are here.

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45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't get why they'd deliberately simplify him like that. I have no idea how that would positively affect their brand so I just chalked it up to careless writing.

Sonic is for kids, mentality. I'm not gonna say again that SEGA is dumb, but people there often misinterpret things, so it's likely here too, they misinterpreted what people want, or simply they want to target kids who think "Shadow is so cool and badass! I'd like to see him more like that" or yes, his infamous edgy nature, but I'm less inclined to think memes have influenced them.

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25 minutes ago, Your Vest Friend said:

On the other hand, -if- the quote is legitimate, it at least confirms Vector's characterisation in Free Riders was probably due to just really not liking the position he'd been put in. 

If is important. This is IF this is true. while I don't think anyone has any qualms with thinking sega doesn't get something , especially characterization. It could all be bullshit, like how shadows written there kind of lines up with points during shadow's archie pre-reboot days before he was dictated. This could have just been a create screw up from ian doesn't get the pop he wanted and the character changes in the near future.

Again this lines up with ians treatment of shadow. This is the guy who during worlds unite ( and yes I know editorial issues ) but during that, instead of choosing any other character or set of characters to die, team dark and shadow did. Even though shadow's capcom equivalent was walking around in zero. He deemed shadow not worthy of being around and he wasn't around yes the explaination was " OH hey we needed to choose someone everyone would know wouldn't die" but its a comic book for children. Everyone knows no one is going to seriously die during a crossoever besides crossoever specific characters. homie could have chosen any number of archie exclusive characters but he chose shadow.

He could not just care for shadow, got to write a story he wanted to and was like " shadow be damned " and problably given the reception to this, there will be less inclined to do so inthe future.

That said if it is real , I have confidence in Ian. He's worked around mandates before, infact the mandate post reboot shadow is IMO the best interpretation of that character...period. This may have caught him off gauard, might might by why the writing seems uh...weird in the last issue and seemingly upcoming in this next issue.  But I genuinely believe with enough time and prep Ian can get something workable out of this mandate

 

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Forgive me if I’m misremembering how Shadow’s inhibitors work, it’s been forever since I’ve seen 06, but doesn’t the use or rather, non use of Shadow’s inhibitors end up draining him of his energy? 

It’s possible originally he was going to misinterpret Sonic’s advice from “If you get infected, run to burn it off” to “speed is a natural shield to the infection”, causing him to turn off his inhibitors to blast through the zombots, only for his energy to drain, and leaving him a target, or when he stops, he touched so many zombots that the infection nearly immediately turns him without a chance to burn it off.

The other thing is IIRC, in 06, he gained a sort of shockwave shield that he used to plow through multiple clones of Mephiles, so his intention might’ve been to use that to shield himself, only for it to backfire.

I think that's what he might have been going for if this interaction between ian flynn and this guys friend happened.

 

 

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My boy Vector's been getting treated really well lately. It might just be that because he's not as popular, there's little worry or pressure put on how he should or shouldn't be portrayed which ironically is keeping him more consistent. 

That's just a theory though. They might actually be paying attention and have just decided that this is the way to portray them for now. It wouldn't surprise me. 

Their plans and their method of approach is something they're never satisfied with. It's like the George Lucas analogy I made long ago.

"NO! This doesn't match up with my perfect vision that I keep changing!" 

And then he flees in terror when he sees a VHS of the original undoctored Star Wars trilogy like in the Red Letter Media video.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

.

"NO! This doesn't match up with my perfect vision that I keep changing!" 

And then he flees in terror when he sees a VHS of the original undoctored Star Wars trilogy like in the Red Letter Media video.

That's a perfect analogy for not only the characterizations of multiple characters, but also gameplay considerations, brand decisions...ect.

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I gotta be honest while it is kinda annoying that a much cooler version of Shadow being infected was changed...I don't think it's that big of a deal. 

Maybe it's because Shadow isn't one of my favorite characters but it really doesn't seem that different from how Shadow is usually done to me.

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