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IMO a lot of stuff happened, besides this issue's cast, they even opened 3 big twists/outcome and mysteries for next issues:

Spoiler

- How will the Zeti control the zombots? Are they even still alive after SLW? And Starline finally betrays the doctor?

- I think I have an idea here, but who is the spy that lets the zombots in the HQ? Ding ding, we have an answer.

- What the hell is up with Silver's future? Why are the zombots completely gone?

This arc is just so good, I don't want to see it end, I want twists and consequences, I don't want it to stay stagnant either. And obviously I need more victims.

By the way, THAT panel really had dramatic timing for that character.

And the game changer for issue 25th, still have no clue what that is, maybe something to do with the fate of the Zombots?

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Oh things definitely happened, it just wasn't anything that really grabbed me. I think it's just what I like out of the series and this particular arc not lining up with it that is leaving me burned out. There isn't really any sense of adventure or discovery with this story arc to me and the characters are being so pushed outside of what I love seeing them as that I just can't get into it. Outside of Rouge and Omega I just can't get into the characters this arc, and I'm going to open a can of worms with this, but Amy is almost completely unrecognizable to me. I get that it's the story being told, but that story and what it is doing has lost any charm it for me issues ago. I'd say maybe the Tangle & Whisper series will give me more of what I'm yearning, but for as much as I like Tangle, seeing her doing what I like her doing doesn't fill the void that I'm experiencing in the main book right now with the game cast. It's kind of a shame to since I had been enjoying this scenario a lot early on and now just don't feel anything from it.

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19 minutes ago, Tangled Jack said:

IMO a lot of stuff happened, besides this issue's cast, they even opened 3 big twists/outcome and mysteries for next issues:

  Reveal hidden contents

- How will the Zeti control the zombots? Are they even still alive after SLW? And Starline finally betrays the doctor?

- I think I have an idea here, but who is the spy that lets the zombots in the HQ? Ding ding, we have an answer.

- What the hell is up with Silver's future? Why are the zombots completely gone?

This arc is just so good, I don't want to see it end, I want twists and consequences, I don't want it to stay stagnant either. And obviously I need more victims.

By the way, THAT panel really had dramatic timing for that character.

And the game changer for issue 25th, still have no clue what that is, maybe something to do with the fate of the Zombots?

Hey. Maybe ' That panel "you are referring to is " oh I feel bad" That's the issue, its a panel. Or to be charitable, two panels. Considering this issue was dedicated to a bad thing happening, maybe more time should have been spent on that. Nope, no one seemed to care in any significant way. So you took a characters agency away , a bad thing occured... aftermath... no narrative consequences of note in terms of emotional reaction. And also the fight wasn't good, so that doesn't even justify anything. Oh hey I seem to be repeating this about Ian flynn written shadow stories that's weird. Its almost as if its a thing to be made note off.

But hey all all the other panels, not about that bad thing and that character are good. Oh man, man really seems like the bad thing happening was wroth it. Totally doesn't read as " fuck this character in particular, don't worry about him ", even if that was unintentional.

11 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I get that it's the story being told, but that story and what it is doing has lost any charm it for me issues ago.  but Amy is almost completely unrecognizable to me.

While I like this books amy, I think this is an understandable complaint. Simply put this story seems to have a bunch of characters out of character...for very little narrative pay off, nothing seems like it matters despite how dire the situation is and it might not be actually worth that. Sonic characters sonci in general places a value on a characters agency and freedom and this sort of story inherently takes that away. Ussually though zombie narratives comes with messages or stories or interesting characterization that justify that loss i agency. Messages about consumerism, or how your fellow man may act when put in apocalyptic situations showing deific kindness or devlish cruelty. But this story hasn't offered any of that.

There's... no pay off. And I can get feeling that way. Just seems like Ian wanted to write a zombie story, but we have encountered the old Ian flynn problem that keeps popping up

" Hey maybe it wasn't worth writing this story, maybe write stories around characters not the other way around , holy shit sometimes just give up on your ideas "

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

While I like this books amy, I think this is an understandable complaint.

Issue two is still my favorite because of how well Amy was done in it (even compared to Tails and Knuckles' introductions imo) as it balanced her love of Sonic and adventure with her peppy and playful side, in addition to her compassionate and responsible side beautifully. The only thing she was really missing to me was her bubbly genki girl aspects. But since then though, she's been high command and not Amy Rose. Tails has been solve with tech guy after others bring him the info he needs. Shadow has been I solve everything with violence guy. And it goes on and on.

There is nothing about these portrayals that feels like to me the characters are experiencing the story and reacting to based on their own personalities, bar Sonic to an extent, and making decisions based on those personalities. I feel like the status quo of this setting needs a good shake up or that it needs to slow down and spend a few issues with each character dealing with the situation and Sonic's involvement so that the characters are characters again and not plugged in archetypes.

It's part of why I found Omega so enjoyable this issue; he was just being himself and responding to the situation as his character would. Destroy all Eggman robots and all that after all.

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The Restoration were worried in general about most things, you got to see Rouge react to Shadow's Death, Cream was having nightmares about the Chao, Vector and Espio dealing with Charmy's disappearance, Amy had to cope with more of her forces lost, Tails is gaining intel for his plan, Silver reflects on his future. 

You know, not everything is about Shadow, if you cared about other characters you would enjoy the book a lot more, because there is depth, I see it.

If I had to make the arc, I wouldn't have added so many characters, because there isn't space for each of them, so I would have cut Team Dark and Chaotix to focus on certain core characters and a couple more. What about Knuckles fans? Knuckles isn't in this arc, they got robbed worse, heck, my favorite character hasn't shown up in the comic yet, so how should I feel?

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5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

" Hey maybe it wasn't worth writing this story, maybe write stories around characters not the other way around , holy shit sometimes just give up on your ideas "

This is an extremely unfair stance against Flynn: "Fuck what you want, what about what I want. Fuck you for not writing how I would have written it"

Between this and your prior assertion that he has some type of vendetta against Shadow with little to no support to back it up, I'm inclined to think you hate him simply because he does't write Shadow how you want him to.

 

Which would be fine on it's own, but using that stance to say the entire book is wrong is lopsidedly biased and holds no actual merit whatsoever.

 

 

And I say this as someone who is in agreement that this arc is lacking in emotional conflict and connection. But it's not because Flynn didn't write my favorite character in the specific way I want him to.

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You know, I’m glad to see that this taking a toll on Sonic, some people have complained about how never takes things seriously and he’s too cocky especially in Forces (which I do agree) 

 

But I am glad we see more emotion from him, I mean look at him! He’s tired from running so much, the weight of this virus and how it’s affecting others is clearly getting to him! 

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7A62FFCD-22F2-4D2C-9151-112ABEEA0FEB.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Shadow Critic said:

Ian Flynn totally disregarded everything about Shadow as a compelling and well developed character in this issue.

Well yeah that's what happens when you become a zombie, you stop being yourself.

2 minutes ago, Shadow Critic said:

Really, hate how Shadow has to be incompetant and flanderized so Ian can push the others as important story narratives, obviously he loves omega and rouge as characters, so he makes Shadow the boss fight and the prideful antagonist just so he can have sonic and the others have more heroic development.

"A boss fight" and "a prideful antagonist", two things Shadow definitely hasn't been before.

You do know that not writing a character as you would isn't the same as hating them, or sabotaging them, or flanderizing them, or...whatever else 90% of the IDW Shadow Discourse has been about, right? Shadow's a popular character, sure, and clearly you're a fan, but that doesn't mean the comic is obligated to be The Shadow Show Starring Shadow (And Other Characters Are Here Too). The comic's first major arc wasn't focused on him, though he still played a role in it. The comic's second major arc isn't about him, though he's still playing a role in it. You can quibble over the execution but it's not as if he's being pushed out of the series, he'll surely get his time in the spotlight eventually.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

This is an extremely unfair stance against Flynn: "Fuck what you want, what about what I want. Fuck you for not writing how I would have written it"

Between this and your prior assertion that he has some type of vendetta against Shadow with little to no support to back it up, I

 

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'm inclined to think you hate him simply because he does't write Shadow how you want him to.

Yo dog you can litterally see me in multiple other threads suggesting he should write the games.

Maybe I think this specific thing is kinda trash... and I wanna talk about how its trash and

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Which would be fine on it's own, but using that stance to say the entire book is wrong is lopsidedly biased and holds no actual merit whatsoever.

Maybe he has a history of doing this to this one specific character, and that does hold merit

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And I say this as someone who is in agreement that this arc is lacking in emotional conflict and connection. But it's not because Flynn didn't write my favorite character in the specific way I want him to.

Eh, its not only because of that. So you have this weird thing you bring up about me wanting shadow written in a specific way. So let inform you how this is incorrect.  I have no issue with how , shadows being written. I have an issue with the quality of how he's being written and the lack of follow through. I don't mind boom shadow. My issue with boom shadow and this shadow is , its still supposed to be kind of the same guy. And that's my main issue. If they want a wild ass different take on shadow...

Cool.

Shadow's a character who's gonna exist forever presumably because disney keeps ruining copyright, so he's gonna change. The batman I read as a kid isn't the same as the one in the comics now. And that's... good! He's generally better , you shouldn't hold characters to one standard variation of the character that exists. I believe if you call on my posts, in other threads... desiring a reboot and desiring a change for shadow. I think they should get rid of maria and gerald strait up. Keep like the essence of it but create something.

But my issue with this is , is that it hasn't justified itself. I said this back issue 6 shadow has failed to established who he is as a character besides annoying. As of currently he has no reason to exist. This is more than " not being written in a way I want him to " its being written badly. And Ian flynn history of writing this very specific character out of narratives. And I think its ok to bring that up, because Ian flynn , surprising is a human being. And sometimes , actually often times human beings have unconscious biases that may pop up in artistic works.

In this book, after whatever the fuck that was last issue. There was a nothing fight and barely any reaction to shadow being the way he is. Which brings me the last reason why I'm not fond of this issue and why you haven't been paying attention. Shadow isn't written in this issue. Everyone else is . My issue here is that the fight , isn't interesting. Shadow's OOC weirdness last issue on that basis isn't justified. Then the reaction to him being zombified isn't... good. There's barely anything. This character who unassumingly meant something to people, didn't really mean anything at all and is quickly brushed off.

And that's where " fuck this character in particular " comes from, shadow in the entirety of this book, has yet t prove to you , why he's around as a character. And the one moment where he could have, he turns into a zombie and no one gives a fuck.

I don't care if shadow's different. I want 3d sonic reboot. Yes there can be bad interpretations, like say movie sonic. But i'm generally open to seeing those interpretations. Like movie sonic. I'm gonna see that film in theaters. Like I am also , in a sea of people saying boom was trash i stand by it was a lot of potential in that concept.  Fuck my shit fam. But if you gonna do it, justify it. Justify the characters being there, and prove to me that its worthwhil and matters. And with shadow in particular this book hasn't. And yes there are other characters in the book who are fine, that's cool. He's my favorite and I am allowed to have that bias. And i'm allowed to point out that's a very dour point in the book. Espically in issues, FOCUSED AROUND HIM. Like... I dunno if this was a tails issue and shadow was just in the background and I was like " Shadow's left shoe was in the wrong position shut it down" call me out. But considering these books right now are focused around this character and they aren't great, it might be a good time to point that out?

Lastly I don't think this is an unfair stance, because again. Flynn writing shadow is literally a meme now. It is so weird and happens so often every time flynn writes shadow to the degree in which not only multiple members of this forum brings up how flynn has written shadow in the past in these scenarios and this book. That it is a meme on other websites, flynn shadow is a meme. Its not an unfair stance its a thing that keeps happening and people see pattern.

Ian Flynn wants these uncharitable views of his work to stop, Ian flynn needs to do better. He needs to learn how to write shadow in an ensemble cast that doesn't involve him being removed or some sort of death.

And I say all this , about a man I think should be working on the games. He is still not absolved of criticism.

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What about this current comic's Cream can transfer into the games? It's so SIMPLE and CUTE.

E-123 Omega with a mouth would be pretty funny, like a shark, rows and rows of teeth.

Also image.png.e3ff0a45ef6b7d21ef7a628da505c0fd.pngthis Sonic expression is hilarious.

Starline wanting to use the Zeti to control the robot horde is a cool feature, that's way past cool.
It probably won't be a good idea in practice and that's also hopeful for the future of this comic.

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28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

And yes there are other characters in the book who are fine, that's cool. He's my favorite and I am allowed to have that bias. And i'm allowed to point out that's a very dour point in the book.

No one's saying you're not. It's being pointed out to you that your bias is making you blow this out of proportion and that your comments read as especially fanboyish.

If Flynn had that much of a bias against Shadow, I have a hard time believing he'd taken as much trouble with the character that he did during his run on Archie. Within his first year he broke Shadow away from Eggman, by the third he formed Team Dark, developed his personality and gave him the most spin-off issues of any Sega character, with the character rivaling Knuckles in terms of importance to that continuity. In the second continuity he was given a unique conflict tied to his origins and his group is protecting the Earth at large while Sonic is doing his thing.

Him not getting his way when Sonic said it wouldn't be right to kill an amnesiac Eggman or getting turned into a zombie because he thought he was better isn't Flynn selling the character short and I think this is just ridiculous. It's not fucking "Worlds Unite" where he got edged out because we really needed Street Fighter characters in a Sonic and Mega Man comic, for crying out loud.

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3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Was being a continuation Sonic Forces a "bad" thing?

Personally I don't think so but I'll admit I'm the minority there. It made sense to follow from the most recent game regardless of if it was the worst thing ever or whatever. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

No one's saying you're not. It's being pointed out to you that your bias is making you blow this out of proportion and that your comments read as especially fanboyish.

I don't think so? I'm just looking at a series of works and going " He seems to do the same shit with this one character " maybe he doesn't like em too much.

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If Flynn had that much of a bias against Shadow, I have a hard time believing he'd taken as much trouble with the character that he did during his run on Archie. Within his first year he broke Shadow away from Eggman, by the third he formed Team Dark, developed his personality and gave him the most spin-off issues of any Sega character, with the character rivaling Knuckles in terms of importance to that continuity.

So pause. Two things

1) You can desire, and its fairly common to write interesting things about a character you find hard to use or possibly do not care for. Infact is actually fairly common, and I would argue the healthiest way to deal with that sort of thing. Authors have talked about this all the time, particularly those who work on others IP. They try to do something cool with it because while they might be fond of it, others are and they try to put thier best foot forward and try do something cool. And Ian flynn... does that. He did it with shadow, i would argue that's what most of shadow's run in the reboot is. Ian flynn taking some stuff he might be fond of and making it cool. It speaks to how good he is as a creative as he was able to do that. And Ironically produced possibly my favorite version of the character.

But that brings me to thing 2.

2) those are isolated scenarios. Like I said , when flynn is lookiing at shadow isolated he doesn't have to think about how has to incorporate him into a narrative or value judgements. The story has to be about him, like in sonic universe. And then its good, he's sort of forced to write the character in a thing about the character and its fine. However, like now and previous other instances in the comic, where has to write shadow relevant to the main narrative ..it falls flat. It seems written out of obligation than anything else. And that in itself is fine, not everyone likes the shit they work on, especially artists. You are supposed to , usually obfuscate that.  However time and time again, when Ian flynn has to write shadow in a main narrative. He never can, he never can incorporate this character into the narrative often chooses to isolate him in some scenario. In fact the universe arcs were just a very elaborate form of isolation. From being knocked out, guarding the president , to "securing the planet " to literally dead, to a zombie , he's been isolated specifically by this writer.

And because of this nothing he does seems to mean anything. he's always isolated, its never relevant to the larger narrative , or in the case of issue 10 I think , its undermined. Nothing he does ever means anything in the larger spectrum and this is something that tends to be shadow specific.

Now you might be like ,  " Well the zombie thing happened so , shadow mattered this time" oh ok cool. But unfortunately no one cared, did sonic actually think about what shadow said or actually flash back. No, just " i told you so " . Did rouge actually think about maybe being complicit in this? She was tsun tsun and just called him an idiot you got 2 panels out of that. And omega didn't give a shit. It didn't matter, none of it mattered. Shadow seemingly only a zombie so flynn doesn't have to deal with shadow being really strong and exploding zombies.

54 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

In the second continuity he was given a unique conflict tied to his origins and his group is protecting the Earth at large while Sonic is doing his thing.

 

As mentioned before, that in itself is a form of isolation. Generally other peoples like connections in the universe series crossed over. Or unless you were blaze and it took place in a different world, and even then before the book was canceled, it was going to.

Shadows... never did. Shadow could have been high on shrooms and imagined eclipse and everything that happened, and it would have just as much effect on the world. And whatever vague nonsense gun was supposedly doing. Maybe something could have happened in the future, but unfortunately I have to judge it for what it is. Didn't matter. You can say shadow is " securing the earth " but if you keep it isolated and no one talks about it outside of those instances... its meaningless. Its words put there to satiate fans because you don't care to commit to doing something with that narrative in any meaningful way.

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Him not getting his way when Sonic said it wouldn't be right to kill an amnesiac Eggman or getting turned into a zombie because he thought he was better isn't Flynn selling the character short and I think this is just ridiculous.

I don't think its ridiculous. I agree with you in concept, the idea of sonic and shadow arguing over whether to murder a guy seems like a cool idea. There was a premise of this ...pre-reboot I think where eggman went nutso and tails was actually the cynical one. ( Side cynical smart tails complementary to sonic's stupid optimism is kind of really good and should be explored more. ) . In concept its fine. In execution the exact phrase I would call it is , short. Shadow doesn't go far enough to show you who he is as a person. Now maybe flynn will do this later in some shadow focused story. Maybe the aliens come through right , if he's finishing off old ideas i'm sure not eclipse will show up.  And what's here is a character who's had a very key part of his characterization removed. His self sacrificial nature. Shadow is a character above all else, when shit hits the fan will sacrifice himself so that other people may prosper. Now there's a reedit post alleging that say this is a sega editorial issue. And that maybe the case, however I feel as though there are was to convey that with out angering the bear.

So i'm gonna give you two examples of selling the character short. So last year in issue 6 sonic and shadow have an argument.And the end of this argument sonic makes the claim basically stating well " What if you were gone " . Shadow doesn't respond to this, this is specifically selling the character short. Shadow's a guy who's more than willing to sacrifice himself for the greater, and a response say " If you have a problem then get rid of me " reads arrogant enough and douchey enough to not register on sega's radar, but also implies that shadow is willing to sacrifice himself.Like one line. One line can take a character from being annoying guy who wants to murder an amnesiac to a full on " the needs of the many " because he includes himself if it comes to it. That would have established his character, it doesn't fix the rest of that issue, but something like that would have established who he is.

On the other end, in issue 19, shadow has one line too many. Shadow being over confidence and getting infected, isn't a problem. The problem is the " cowards run I win" shit. This goes against like... baseline shadow. Like Sa2, shadow. Now if this is supposed to be a different version of that character with different events , cool sure. However, in issue 6 sonic calls on shadow's kindness or attempts to by mentioning all that , sort of implying this is the same shadow who changed as as person over the course of that narrative. In sa2, shadow strait up stops fighting sonic to escape and to save rouge, even on his revenge quest. He was still deep down a person that knew greater things at stake.

But that last line sells him short, he goes from kind of an asshole self sacrificing here. To just an asshole.

Lines like that are important. So yes I would specifically describe him selling shadow, short. Short is specifically how I would describe shadow in this series, always on the cusp of interesting characterization. But ultimately not given enough chance to be his own person.

Shadow's character in this book is: Angry guy who throws tantrums... Sounds like selling him short to me. And then... no one seemed to care when he got turned.

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It's not fucking "Worlds Unite" where he got edged out because we really needed Street Fighter characters in a Sonic and Mega Man comic, for crying out loud.

No, no its not. Nor is it dictator shadow, before it. But it doesn't have to be the worst thing to acknowledge that , this is kinda wack.

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