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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Was being a continuation Sonic Forces a "bad" thing?

Personally I don't think so but I'll admit I'm the minority there. It made sense to follow from the most recent game regardless of if it was the worst thing ever or whatever. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

No one's saying you're not. It's being pointed out to you that your bias is making you blow this out of proportion and that your comments read as especially fanboyish.

I don't think so? I'm just looking at a series of works and going " He seems to do the same shit with this one character " maybe he doesn't like em too much.

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If Flynn had that much of a bias against Shadow, I have a hard time believing he'd taken as much trouble with the character that he did during his run on Archie. Within his first year he broke Shadow away from Eggman, by the third he formed Team Dark, developed his personality and gave him the most spin-off issues of any Sega character, with the character rivaling Knuckles in terms of importance to that continuity.

So pause. Two things

1) You can desire, and its fairly common to write interesting things about a character you find hard to use or possibly do not care for. Infact is actually fairly common, and I would argue the healthiest way to deal with that sort of thing. Authors have talked about this all the time, particularly those who work on others IP. They try to do something cool with it because while they might be fond of it, others are and they try to put thier best foot forward and try do something cool. And Ian flynn... does that. He did it with shadow, i would argue that's what most of shadow's run in the reboot is. Ian flynn taking some stuff he might be fond of and making it cool. It speaks to how good he is as a creative as he was able to do that. And Ironically produced possibly my favorite version of the character.

But that brings me to thing 2.

2) those are isolated scenarios. Like I said , when flynn is lookiing at shadow isolated he doesn't have to think about how has to incorporate him into a narrative or value judgements. The story has to be about him, like in sonic universe. And then its good, he's sort of forced to write the character in a thing about the character and its fine. However, like now and previous other instances in the comic, where has to write shadow relevant to the main narrative ..it falls flat. It seems written out of obligation than anything else. And that in itself is fine, not everyone likes the shit they work on, especially artists. You are supposed to , usually obfuscate that.  However time and time again, when Ian flynn has to write shadow in a main narrative. He never can, he never can incorporate this character into the narrative often chooses to isolate him in some scenario. In fact the universe arcs were just a very elaborate form of isolation. From being knocked out, guarding the president , to "securing the planet " to literally dead, to a zombie , he's been isolated specifically by this writer.

And because of this nothing he does seems to mean anything. he's always isolated, its never relevant to the larger narrative , or in the case of issue 10 I think , its undermined. Nothing he does ever means anything in the larger spectrum and this is something that tends to be shadow specific.

Now you might be like ,  " Well the zombie thing happened so , shadow mattered this time" oh ok cool. But unfortunately no one cared, did sonic actually think about what shadow said or actually flash back. No, just " i told you so " . Did rouge actually think about maybe being complicit in this? She was tsun tsun and just called him an idiot you got 2 panels out of that. And omega didn't give a shit. It didn't matter, none of it mattered. Shadow seemingly only a zombie so flynn doesn't have to deal with shadow being really strong and exploding zombies.

54 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

In the second continuity he was given a unique conflict tied to his origins and his group is protecting the Earth at large while Sonic is doing his thing.

 

As mentioned before, that in itself is a form of isolation. Generally other peoples like connections in the universe series crossed over. Or unless you were blaze and it took place in a different world, and even then before the book was canceled, it was going to.

Shadows... never did. Shadow could have been high on shrooms and imagined eclipse and everything that happened, and it would have just as much effect on the world. And whatever vague nonsense gun was supposedly doing. Maybe something could have happened in the future, but unfortunately I have to judge it for what it is. Didn't matter. You can say shadow is " securing the earth " but if you keep it isolated and no one talks about it outside of those instances... its meaningless. Its words put there to satiate fans because you don't care to commit to doing something with that narrative in any meaningful way.

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Him not getting his way when Sonic said it wouldn't be right to kill an amnesiac Eggman or getting turned into a zombie because he thought he was better isn't Flynn selling the character short and I think this is just ridiculous.

I don't think its ridiculous. I agree with you in concept, the idea of sonic and shadow arguing over whether to murder a guy seems like a cool idea. There was a premise of this ...pre-reboot I think where eggman went nutso and tails was actually the cynical one. ( Side cynical smart tails complementary to sonic's stupid optimism is kind of really good and should be explored more. ) . In concept its fine. In execution the exact phrase I would call it is , short. Shadow doesn't go far enough to show you who he is as a person. Now maybe flynn will do this later in some shadow focused story. Maybe the aliens come through right , if he's finishing off old ideas i'm sure not eclipse will show up.  And what's here is a character who's had a very key part of his characterization removed. His self sacrificial nature. Shadow is a character above all else, when shit hits the fan will sacrifice himself so that other people may prosper. Now there's a reedit post alleging that say this is a sega editorial issue. And that maybe the case, however I feel as though there are was to convey that with out angering the bear.

So i'm gonna give you two examples of selling the character short. So last year in issue 6 sonic and shadow have an argument.And the end of this argument sonic makes the claim basically stating well " What if you were gone " . Shadow doesn't respond to this, this is specifically selling the character short. Shadow's a guy who's more than willing to sacrifice himself for the greater, and a response say " If you have a problem then get rid of me " reads arrogant enough and douchey enough to not register on sega's radar, but also implies that shadow is willing to sacrifice himself.Like one line. One line can take a character from being annoying guy who wants to murder an amnesiac to a full on " the needs of the many " because he includes himself if it comes to it. That would have established his character, it doesn't fix the rest of that issue, but something like that would have established who he is.

On the other end, in issue 19, shadow has one line too many. Shadow being over confidence and getting infected, isn't a problem. The problem is the " cowards run I win" shit. This goes against like... baseline shadow. Like Sa2, shadow. Now if this is supposed to be a different version of that character with different events , cool sure. However, in issue 6 sonic calls on shadow's kindness or attempts to by mentioning all that , sort of implying this is the same shadow who changed as as person over the course of that narrative. In sa2, shadow strait up stops fighting sonic to escape and to save rouge, even on his revenge quest. He was still deep down a person that knew greater things at stake.

But that last line sells him short, he goes from kind of an asshole self sacrificing here. To just an asshole.

Lines like that are important. So yes I would specifically describe him selling shadow, short. Short is specifically how I would describe shadow in this series, always on the cusp of interesting characterization. But ultimately not given enough chance to be his own person.

Shadow's character in this book is: Angry guy who throws tantrums... Sounds like selling him short to me. And then... no one seemed to care when he got turned.

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It's not fucking "Worlds Unite" where he got edged out because we really needed Street Fighter characters in a Sonic and Mega Man comic, for crying out loud.

No, no its not. Nor is it dictator shadow, before it. But it doesn't have to be the worst thing to acknowledge that , this is kinda wack.

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#20, okay, a lot to unpackage....

1 Shadow (you people talked about him for 8 pages, I want one post too).
I'm certain Flynn isn't super-duper big fan of Shadow. He clearly loves Sonic, claims his favorites are Knux, Espio, Blaze and Big, and showed enthusiasm writing Cream, Omega, Tails or Amy in best possible way. Whenever talking about Shadow he's usually... neutrally acknowledging that he's important and popular. Honestly, even if did hate Shadow, Flynn is a professional (and not an idiot), he would try to satisfy his fans anyway. Large portion of fandom happy = larger money. Simple. And even if you don't agree, Shadow under his pen is still best Shadow in years. Probably since 06, but there are Colors DS or Chronicles, you may argue.
With that said  Flynn has one big flaw for me: he's absolute screw-up. Story about "Shadow's arrogance does something wrong, friends need to help out"? Sound good, great even if he gets to do something awesome. But doing so again and again?
- Shadow gets infected. Shadow allows Metal to copy his data, tries to kill Tinker (which was framed back then as a wrong move).
- How about Archie? Shadow gets constantly beat by Adam/Enerjack/Scourge/Lara-Su. Shadow gets his own arc where he moans how he keeps failing (and he at least twice), Shadow needs pep talk from Amy to help Blaze
- Reboot? Shadow gets ambushed by Eclipse, Shadow gets into fight with Knuckles, letting Eclipse steal ME.
Every story is fine on it's own merit, in a row this kinda sucks. Ian, you can do better. #19 would work if it was framed a little different (which you apparently planned), but I still wouldn't be happy. Mandates or not, you're recycling one arc for Shadow over and over.
 

Anyway, this issue is split into 2 plots.

2 Plot A
is finishing #19 story. Shadow Zombie is vicious, which gives a little flair to zombie battling, but that's about it. Omega still rocks (and is kinda creepy in this issue. Look at his face when he talks about massacre. He even attacks Shadow, something he was very hesitant in Archie Reboot), Rouge still does nothing. I did wondered how Sonic will get out of this, but answer is kinda unsatisfying.

Although I do find it fascinating Shadow-Zombot can't use his shoes. Now I image that inside his shoes is are buttons and switches, controls too complicated for mindless zombie, but no problem for Ultimate Life Form and his All-Powerful Foot, the same ones he used to reform Silver and drive Infinite mad. All hail Shadow's feet! (More realistically Shadow used Chaos Energy to power his shoes, but my theory is more fun).

2 Plot B
is much better. I mean it's just a recap (that logically should be in next issue. We all know those thing are sold in TradePaperBacks by 4,  you don't end book with recap what happened. You want that for start of next book), but Flynn wrote is so naturally it doesn't feel like one. This apocalypse is finally . Cream is one of best, despite not doing anything super-cutesy. Ian really proves there is a place for her in this franchise. But my favorite is small exchange with Amy. They want a nice small talk , she probably wants flirt a little, he wants to be cool and uplifting, but dang it, situation is really bad and they both aren't doing so well. Good stuff.

And he have a little development with Starline which is both interesting and forehead-slapping "so obvious, why didn't I though of it" kind of thing.

So yeah, a little mix bag, but I think good stuff ultimately overweight the not so great. Sorry Shadow fans.

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.........Guys, what?!

How the heck Ian is not fond of Shadow?!

He made the character the best he could be in Archie, specially Sonic Universe, he steals the show in that series!  Is the reason why I like Shadow so much! Because of how Ian wrote him.

That's just almost absurd to hear, Ian loves Shadow, I don't know what are you talking about.

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Not only that, but Blaze has suffered a multitude of defeats across her much more limited screen time to boot. Anyone who trots out that argument to hold up against his treatment of Shadow needs to step back a bit and look at the big picture.

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Alrighty, I just read Issue 20. I've got a lot to say. There was a surprisingly heavy amount of stuff packed into this one.

First and foremost, I'll say that I was highly interested going into this issue because of what the solicits had to say in the summary about it. I wasn't particularly interested in the Shadow fight as it were. Fights in these books usually aren't super well choreographed so unless it was drawn like the awesome Issue 7 (which is still the best drawn fight scene in Sonic comic history) I likely wasn't going to hold out much hope for that. However, that's okay because the thing I'm always interested in is plot development and character writing, which we saw a plethora of in this one.

Shadow's zombot form is basically a nerfed Shadow with one super huge advantage of, "You touch, you turn". Against Sonic and Omega this means very little but when there's so many zombots around, it clearly became an issue and... Sonic almost turned completely. He was seriously about to lose.

However, the most shocking part was that they DESTROYED Omega's body! 

Like... holy shit. I'm well and truly shocked that Ian was given the a-okay to do that. I know Omega didn't die but his original body, the one he's had since Heroes in this time line just got mauled and ripped apart...! 

I dunno. That's so strange to me. Omega's lucky he's a robot and not one of Sonic's friends, otherwise, those wires would have been his organs and shit. 

Tails and Silver coming to save the day was one of those "Big Damn Heroes!" moments that I love in fiction so much. When the chips are down, help arrives in the form of heroes you didn't see coming, shooting in and providing assistance. I could hear the anime music playing in my head when it happened.

Of course, the real meat of this was just watching Downtrodden, Sad-Faced Sonic walking through the Resistance HQ. It's gonna sound really messed up for me to say but I do kind of enjoy how depressed and tired Sonic looks. Amy losing contact with one of the Echos and Sonic's face as he just turned to leave because he was most likely still blaming himself for this was great, for lack of a better word. The Chaotix want to bring Charmy here and, while the claim that Sonic being there is just as dangerous isn't technically true since Charmy's gone full Zombot, I do see where their mind-set is. Cream is having nightmares and that's sad of course. Rouge's reaction to losing Shadow was quite appropriate for her character.

Rouge also had the best line of the issue. "Thank Goodness for these noble self-sacrificing types." Spoken like a true anti-hero. I love her.

The final bits are set-up for the coming Tails part of the arc where he's going to need to access the lab in Central City to get a better way to monitor the virus. Which is fine. The big thing though is at the end with Dr. Starline coming in with the Deadly Six bombshell. It's actually pretty cool how Ian is always able to remember tidbits like this and connect the dots so as to help strengthen the layers of his stories. I'll be completely honest, I keep forgetting that the Deadly Six have the power to override and control robots. It's such an after-thought that seeing it come back like this hit me like a brick-house. I'm also not even sure where this is going. 

I enjoyed this quite a bit. I feel a bit rejuvenated here. There was a bit of fatigue coming on but it's not because of the story arc for me. It's more so the fact that the waits between issues keep feeling monstrously huge. The constant delays aren't helping things either. The comfort of a consistent schedule from the Archie books is, for certain, one of the few things I can say they did a lot better at the moment. 

One last little thing; I'm glad my comic shop had the RI cover this week. I got that and Cover B. Cover A was just a bit too generic for me. It was just a picture of Sonic and a picture of Zombot Shadow behind him. Not much in terms of a background either. The RI Cover in comparison was just so beautifully drawn, I had to nab it.

I remain happy that I can still pick something up that's telling actual stories with these characters. I feel a spark of life coming back to me every time I finish an issue, even one I may not have liked as much as the others. I'm grateful this exists. I couldn't imagine being stuck with just what Sonic Team had to offer nowadays.

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2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Yo dog you can litterally see me in multiple other threads suggesting he should write the games.

Maybe I think this specific thing is kinda trash... and I wanna talk about how its trash and

Maybe he has a history of doing this to this one specific character, and that does hold merit

Eh, its not only because of that. So you have this weird thing you bring up about me wanting shadow written in a specific way. So let inform you how this is incorrect.  I have no issue with how , shadows being written. I have an issue with the quality of how he's being written and the lack of follow through. I don't mind boom shadow. My issue with boom shadow and this shadow is , its still supposed to be kind of the same guy. And that's my main issue. If they want a wild ass different take on shadow...

Cool.

Shadow's a character who's gonna exist forever presumably because disney keeps ruining copyright, so he's gonna change. The batman I read as a kid isn't the same as the one in the comics now. And that's... good! He's generally better , you shouldn't hold characters to one standard variation of the character that exists. I believe if you call on my posts, in other threads... desiring a reboot and desiring a change for shadow. I think they should get rid of maria and gerald strait up. Keep like the essence of it but create something.

But my issue with this is , is that it hasn't justified itself. I said this back issue 6 shadow has failed to established who he is as a character besides annoying. As of currently he has no reason to exist. This is more than " not being written in a way I want him to " its being written badly. And Ian flynn history of writing this very specific character out of narratives. And I think its ok to bring that up, because Ian flynn , surprising is a human being. And sometimes , actually often times human beings have unconscious biases that may pop up in artistic works.

In this book, after whatever the fuck that was last issue. There was a nothing fight and barely any reaction to shadow being the way he is. Which brings me the last reason why I'm not fond of this issue and why you haven't been paying attention. Shadow isn't written in this issue. Everyone else is . My issue here is that the fight , isn't interesting. Shadow's OOC weirdness last issue on that basis isn't justified. Then the reaction to him being zombified isn't... good. There's barely anything. This character who unassumingly meant something to people, didn't really mean anything at all and is quickly brushed off.

And that's where " fuck this character in particular " comes from, shadow in the entirety of this book, has yet t prove to you , why he's around as a character. And the one moment where he could have, he turns into a zombie and no one gives a fuck.

I don't care if shadow's different. I want 3d sonic reboot. Yes there can be bad interpretations, like say movie sonic. But i'm generally open to seeing those interpretations. Like movie sonic. I'm gonna see that film in theaters. Like I am also , in a sea of people saying boom was trash i stand by it was a lot of potential in that concept.  Fuck my shit fam. But if you gonna do it, justify it. Justify the characters being there, and prove to me that its worthwhil and matters. And with shadow in particular this book hasn't. And yes there are other characters in the book who are fine, that's cool. He's my favorite and I am allowed to have that bias. And i'm allowed to point out that's a very dour point in the book. Espically in issues, FOCUSED AROUND HIM. Like... I dunno if this was a tails issue and shadow was just in the background and I was like " Shadow's left shoe was in the wrong position shut it down" call me out. But considering these books right now are focused around this character and they aren't great, it might be a good time to point that out?

Lastly I don't think this is an unfair stance, because again. Flynn writing shadow is literally a meme now. It is so weird and happens so often every time flynn writes shadow to the degree in which not only multiple members of this forum brings up how flynn has written shadow in the past in these scenarios and this book. That it is a meme on other websites, flynn shadow is a meme. Its not an unfair stance its a thing that keeps happening and people see pattern.

Ian Flynn wants these uncharitable views of his work to stop, Ian flynn needs to do better. He needs to learn how to write shadow in an ensemble cast that doesn't involve him being removed or some sort of death.

And I say all this , about a man I think should be working on the games. He is still not absolved of criticism.

Wraith is right, you are rambly...

 

Anyway, it's not that I don't think Flynn isn't absolved of criticism, but that this criticism of yours in particular is, as I said, unfair. As pointed out many times to you before, Flynn HAS given Shadow TONS of focus between the original continuity, post-reboot, and now. I'm not talking about if it's isolated from the main narrative or not, I'm simply talking about given focus in general. I really can't imagine how he can have so much disdain for this character, yet continuously makes him one of the front liners for every series along with Sonic and Knuckles. 

Maybe he does have problems using Shadow in a larger ensemble, who knows. But to suggest that he plays favorites and downplays Shadow in a greater context feels ludicrous to me.  ESPECIALLY when, if you actually bothered to look at any other character besides Shadow for once, you'd see he treats characters like Blaze, and Silver not really any different. So does he have some type of vendetta against those characters too? 

Criticize the quality of his writing for the story and characters, fine. I don't mind that, but stop trying to push this agenda that he hates your favorite character with your only supporting evidence of this being that you just so happen to not like what he does with him. Criticize the man's work, not the man himself over your perceived biases against him.

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I enjoyed this issue. Apparently Shadow isn't that fast without his rocket shoes hah! Seeing my son Tails is also nice, but Silver is the MVP right now. Like he is your best weapon for this crisis. He can fly and avoid most attacks in the air at a safe distance, and he can fight without having to touch them with his psychic powers. Dude is the most valuable front line combatant right now outside of Sonic.

Omega is great too and he has some fun chemistry with Tails. I wanna talk about someone else but I'm afraid to add yet another repeated conversation on top of the Shadow one so I don't really want to say it.

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10 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Issue two is still my favorite because of how well Amy was done in it (even compared to Tails and Knuckles' introductions imo) as it balanced her love of Sonic and adventure with her peppy and playful side, in addition to her compassionate and responsible side beautifully. The only thing she was really missing to me was her bubbly genki girl aspects. But since then though, she's been high command and not Amy Rose. Tails has been solve with tech guy after others bring him the info he needs. Shadow has been I solve everything with violence guy. And it goes on and on.

There is nothing about these portrayals that feels like to me the characters are experiencing the story and reacting to based on their own personalities, bar Sonic to an extent, and making decisions based on those personalities. I feel like the status quo of this setting needs a good shake up or that it needs to slow down and spend a few issues with each character dealing with the situation and Sonic's involvement so that the characters are characters again and not plugged in archetypes.

It's part of why I found Omega so enjoyable this issue; he was just being himself and responding to the situation as his character would. Destroy all Eggman robots and all that after all.

I do want to address this, because I feel it's worth mentioning: but I feel like you're looking more for a character based narrative than one centered on an overextending plot. 

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That would probably explain why I'm not feeling this arc that much. Character driven >>>>> plot driven for me. 

 

Tangle and Whisper is going on at the same time and counterbalances this arc pretty well though so I can't complain too much. I wasn't crazy about this issue overall but I liked a lot of the little touches with characters like Cream and Silver. As always Ian keeps my attention with that stuff

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Well, the plot isn't really anything to write home about; it's a pretty bog standard zombie apocalypse story, but yea without any real emotional conflict or development, it is basically just shock value and not much else. I hope the next major arc is more centered on characterization though, especially since we've had two larger scale conflicts like this in a row.

I feel that's my biggest criticism towards the series so far; without much character or world building, there's really not much investment beyond just seeing your favorite character smash up stuff, and be shocked at all of the bad things happening. Like, it's fine for pure shock value and whatnot, but it doesn't have much substance ya know?

Like for instance; this issue established Cream having nightmares about what happened to Cheese and Chocola two issues ago...with a single panel of dialogue before moving on to the next major plot point. I do agree with Shadowlax that there's no real emotional reaction to Shadow becoming a zombot either; literally one of the strongest guys is now an enemy...and nobody really cares about it, before we move on to the next plot point. I think the series is too eager to rush from plot point to plot point without really giving the reader time to digest and let the characters react. The evens happening are certainly a big deal, but the characters aren't really behaving like it is beyond standard "THIS IS BAD!!" type of reactions. 

 

And it irks me because I can SEE the potential there. Like, I LIKE how sad and depressed Sonic looks. I like how this conflict IS affecting the cast, but I want the series to SHOW it. Give us some panel time of the cast interacting and giving their own perspectives and reactions on the situation. The talk between Sonic & Shadow in last issue was great because of that; Sonic has to confront that this is technically his fault, and Shadow has to face his anger at the situation for not doing what he set out in issue 6. Things like that are GREAT, and I want more of it. 

 

Think my biggest take from this is that Flynn needs to slow down a bit. Let the cast lick their wounds and digest the situation a little and just...act like themselves. 

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42 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Criticize the quality of his writing for the story and characters, fine. I don't mind that, but stop trying to push this agenda that he hates your favorite character with your only supporting evidence of this being that you just so happen to not like what he does with him.

My evidence is looking at works and analyzing them and making observations based on what's presented in the work. Its called critical analysis, its a thing you learn in school. I'm looking at thing , seeing a thing and going " this might be a thing " and outside of Ian saying " I hate shadow I want him die " i wont ever have proof. But I can like many do with media make assumptions based on how that media is presented.

 

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Criticize the man's work, not the man himself over your perceived biases against him.

Lets talk about this real quick. No one said Ian flynn is a bad person for not liking my 3foot 3 ptsd laden hedgehog. Nor am I suggesting he may not like it says anything about him. I'm observing his work, seeing a bias and going " eh this might be a thing " , people do that shit all the time. Usually about harsher implications about their moral faculties, like how you can go back and read a bunch of Penders era shit and see the exact type of ass backwards shit he believes in. But this isn't as serious nor does it suggest anything besides, eh maybe he should be edited more when he has shadow stories. That's it

He isn't a bad person for possibly not liking my character, I just don't like the results. But i'm not gonna explode, he's not gonna explode. Its just a thing. Example, I like sam raimi, he doesn't like venom. I love venom. He's not a bad person, it isn't an attack on his character he doesn't like venom and sony had to force him to use venom. ... its just a thing.

And it doesn't mean that if you like a character I like mean you are good person. This is not a judgement of " the man " It is an observation of  his habits in media and making assumptions based on those observations. And while they could be more damning like psychoanalysis ... this isn't that. Its just reading how he wrote a single character.

If ever insult flynn's person, call me out. But suggesting someone might not... like something they are writing about. Is luke warm take that isn't as offensive as some of you are taking it. Its just a thing

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I feel like the major characterization and emotional stakes issues take root from the storyline's origins - namely that Ian revealed that the arc was originally set down to be the 300th issue milestone story for Archie Sonic.

For context as to where that would've been placed, it would be roughly 12 or so issues after the Shattered World Crisis, so giving about a year of cooldown time for the cast. While details are sketchy, we do know what Ian was planning for the eight to sixteen remaining issues after Genesis of a Hero in particular between Universe and the actual series - the series would've been about both the Freedom Fighters, Sonic, and the SEGA cast going their separate ways and trying to go back to their lives post-SWC. This would've entailed the FF getting a Universe arc where an issue focuses on them (With one of the issues being a reveal that Bunnie was originally from the Sol Dimension IIRC).

What this would mean is that not only would we already have the mountains of world-building already from Shattered World Crisis, but we also would've had a cooldown period that was gonna let us get to know more about not only the comic cast, but the SEGA cast as well, which would've slotted them in perfectly for the Zombot Crisis come Issue 300.

For me personally, I really do feel like the core issues of this storyline is because Ian rushed it into Year 2/3 of the comic, when the planning didn't fit it. Like in a hypothetical timeline where Archie Sonic continued past Issue 300, I could see a lot of these plot moments work a bit better, because the previous 30-40 issues would've built up enough emotional and character stakes to make things have an impact. Like, if we saw Meropis, or Yurashia get hit by the Zombot virus instead of nameless villages filled with nameless citizens we know nothing about, we might've actually gotten hit by a full impact because we had previous arcs that let us get acquainted with these locales, and their cast of characters. 

Granted, I still feel like a lot of the problems would still be present, I don't think this arc is really going to start firing on all jets until we get an issue or two where we just get to see the characters take a moment to try deal with the fallout of the Zombot attacks. No action, no fighting, just give us a full character issue where we get to see in-depth how they're affected by the Zombot Fallout so we can connect with them better. Issue 20 sounds like it's starting to get the right idea of where to take it, but unless they begin to seriously bunker down and go all the way with it, it's just gonna be a half-measure that doesn't hit the mark. 

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10 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

My evidence is looking at works and analyzing them and making observations based on what's presented in the work. Its called critical analysis, its a thing you learn in school. I'm looking at thing , seeing a thing and going " this might be a thing " and outside of Ian saying " I hate shadow I want him die " i wont ever have proof. But I can like many do with media make assumptions based on how that media is presented.

 

Lets talk about this real quick. No one said Ian flynn is a bad person for not liking my 3foot 3 ptsd laden hedgehog. Nor am I suggesting he may not like it says anything about him. I'm observing his work, seeing a bias and going " eh this might be a thing " , people do that shit all the time. Usually about harsher implications about their moral faculties, like how you can go back and read a bunch of Penders era shit and see the exact type of ass backwards shit he believes in. But this isn't as serious nor does it suggest anything besides, eh maybe he should be edited more when he has shadow stories. That's it

He isn't a bad person for possibly not liking my character, I just don't like the results. But i'm not gonna explode, he's not gonna explode. Its just a thing. Example, I like sam raimi, he doesn't like venom. I love venom. He's not a bad person, it isn't an attack on his character he doesn't like venom and sony had to force him to use venom. ... its just a thing.

And it doesn't mean that if you like a character I like mean you are good person. This is not a judgement of " the man " It is an observation of  his habits in media and making assumptions based on those observations. And while they could be more damning like psychoanalysis ... this isn't that. Its just reading how he wrote a single character.

If ever insult flynn's person, call me out. But suggesting someone might not... like something they are writing about. Is luke warm take that isn't as offensive as some of you are taking it. Its just a thing

I went to college too, so you can stop with the pseudo-intellectual bullshit. I know what a critical analysis is. And this attitude is exactly why you get people on your ass so much. What many people have issue with is that you're asserting your "critical analysis" as a fact, and adopting some "holier than thou" attitude because of it. Nobody but you cares if you've discovered Flynn is some Shadow-hating heathen. 

In short; you're free to criticize, you're free to critically analyze. But you're kind of being a jackass about it, especially when you INSIST on responding to people in this tone when you're doing your critical analysis. 

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44 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Maybe he does have problems using Shadow in a larger ensemble, who knows. But to suggest that he plays favorites and downplays Shadow in a greater context feels ludicrous to me.  ESPECIALLY when, if you actually bothered to look at any other character besides Shadow for once, you'd see he treats characters like Blaze, and Silver not really any different. So does he have some type of vendetta against those characters too?

Mention this in another post, but in terms of silver... yes? But not in the way you are arguing. Flynn constantly makes a concerted effort to make whatever silver is doing generally matter in whatever storyline , even if its years into the future. And often incorporates him even if he used infrequently into the main narrative. Shadow while he is used more, is because he's popular. He has to use him, and when there is a larger narrative going he tends to write shadow out of it so he doesn't have to use him any more.

Now blaze is a particular case because she's from another world like to make mention as I did in another post. That Ian flynn was going incorporate and canonize that other world, with actual like main book character integration before archie got canceled.

Shadow's universe stuff never was, it was made to isolate that character and was so isolated could have basically been a fever dream because no one mentions it outside of that context unlike...generally every other universe reboot story that was happening at the time. There were  characters and places integrated in meaningful ways between those two books and it was gonna continue. And shadow was... high imagining he was punching his alien cousin, or it could have been real, but considering no one talked about it ... could have just not happened. Flynn on multiple occasions made active efforts to integrate a character from the goddamn future, before he bothered  making anything shadow did actually matter. He had silver invovled with goddamn traitor conspiracies. Blaze admittedly less so, but before the comic ended he was putting the effort in.  But shadow? Nope.

Continued in IDW, Silver man from the future predicting some awful calamity. Blaze didn't even need to be there, but not only got an explanation got meaningful imput in the narrative. Shadow? Nothing he did mattered. And the only time it was gonna matter maybe, it is immediately undermined and called stupid. He's made to look useless. He makes the problem worse. And then he did it again. that seems like pattern. And both incidents are preceeded by a squence supposedly making shadow look cool. But ultimately are undermined and made meaningless. Because that's how flynn writes him, like he needs to get shadow out of the way of his real story. " let me make him look cool to appease these nerds so I don't have to deal with him anymore "

Also , all authors play favorites. All of them, they like some characters more than others , sometimes they act on it, sometimes they don't. But hey do. Its just a thing. There's an author who's name I forget who does marvel stuff who particularly likes a character called like the " eye " or something and makes sure to include him or an equivalent every single time he does a marvel event. Its not a good or a bad thing... its just a thing.

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I went to college too, so you can stop with the pseudo-intellectual bullshit. I know what a critical analysis is. And this attitude is exactly why you get people on your ass so much.

You literally read into that statement too much. All I was saying that it was unusual to do the thing that was doing. Chill.

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What many people have issue with is that you're asserting your "critical analysis" as a fact, and adopting some "holier than thou" attitude because of it.

I'm spending time, my god given time on this earth. Arguing about a series filled with funny colored animals who run fast made by a company who increasingly seems to not give a crap about its quality. I am not holier than thou. I am a dupster weirdo yelling about linkin park

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

Nobody but you cares if you've discovered Flynn is some Shadow-hating heathen. 

WAT

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

In short; you're free to criticize, you're free to critically analyze. But you're kind of being a jackass about it, especially when you INSIST on responding to people in this tone when you're doing your critical analysis. 

I'm literally trying to be as chill as possible.

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36 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

...basically just shock value...

Does it even count as this at the moment?

The shock is gone-zo.

I feel like hyper violent versions of themselves but still actually being aware - not mindless - would be much better.

The tone alone would be lifted from that change.

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So is this comic ever going to be consistent about how bad Sonic's condition is? Why isn't he a zombot already?
This story would have made more sense if it was about Sonic needing to avoid further infections (or avoid being infected at all) while still needing to save people. Right now it feels like arbirtary tool to keep Sonic from actually being able to accomplish much.

 

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1 minute ago, Slashy said:

So is this comic ever going to be consistent about how bad Sonic's condition is? Why isn't he a zombot already?

It seems pretty consistent.

It's probably that one panel from him being 90% covered in metal and tired to that next panel where he's completely clean that doesn't really help the feeling.

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But he seems perfectly fine when he's in the hideout, almost like he's not bothering keeping away from everyone. The virus seems like it could cover him less than a minute if he's not running around. So what the heck?

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9 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

It seems pretty consistent.

It's probably that one panel from him being 90% covered in metal and tired to that next panel where he's completely clean that doesn't really help the feeling.

It is not. We know that running makes causes the infection to dissipate, but we also established that touching zombots decreases the amount it takes for the infection to spread across his body when Sonic stops. We don't have any indication of how bad it has gotten because the comic refuses to actually give this plot point any real consequences.

If it did, we would see consistency in how fast the virus spreads when Sonic stops. It would be like Speed not telling its audience the speed limit that the bus needs to travel at in order to not set off the bomb.

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