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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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9 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I may be an Amy fan and wouldn't mind an Amy centric arc, but that isn't really my problem here. I've miscommunicated it it seems, so if you'll allow me to more concise.

My problem with Amy is her use and an upcoming payoff issue for her. When Sonic got infected she was there for the that and was her normal self. Now she is worn down from the long draw out battle and losses with the zombot crisis. In two months we'll be seeing her have a big battle likely serving as the climax of her arc during this story. We have a beginning and we have an end. The problem is the middle isn't there and it just rubs me the wrong way and is why I hope in an issue where she is sharing screen time with Cream and the Chaotix that there'll be some room for flashbacks to fill in the middle. I doubt it though as the IDW books are not dense enough to pull that off. I expect to be disappointed which is a shame but it is what it is.

But, if I look at this from the perspective of Sonic, I still don't like because his reaction to this major change in Amy as it kind of goes against my expectations of Sonic. Sonic is supposed to get angry and take action when he sees an injustice, and there are few greater injustices than seeing an optimistic person reduced to stressed out and desperate due to a world ending plague being unleashed on it. But there isn't any anger on Sonic's part, and while that is fine, the lack of anger isn't explored when it should be. After all, this whole mess is his fault for sparing Eggman, so a lot of his anger should be aimed inward creating character conflict like @Shadowlax has been demanding. Instead, Shadow could be removed entirely from the IDW run so far and nothing of any real interest would be lost to me. For all of my complaints about detailed and dense story telling, no less how Amy has been handled this arc, at least no one has been as useless and unnecessary as Shadow. And frankly that sucks. I miss introspective I'll do this myself Shadow because he knows the dangers and his abilities. Egocentric my pride before the world Shadow is a waste of space in my opinion which plain sucks. Had Shadow been more introspective as he was at one point in this franchise, his engagements with Sonic would have been rich dialogue and philosophical battles instead of shoving matches which would have brought a heck of a lot more weight to the proceedings. At that point, seeing Shadow fall to the zombots and Amy being worn down, Sonic just might have had one of those rare switch flip moments of his were his good humor disappears and he's all business. It would have been a moment of great character study and to see one of Sonic's rare personality facets that has almost always only ever been implied in rare character data. Of course, this is the problem with a licensed book when SEGA is in the midst of trying to simplify the brand image into a static pictur №e.

 

For what it's worth, I thought your perspective was clear enough in the previous post. 

As for the mood, I think a pragmatic wax of getting that across without overly changing the scenes is to change their sequence:

  1. Immediately after the rescue and escape, Omega, Tails, and Silver chat about the circumstances in the lab and nonetheless are positive that they'll be able to fix things.
  2. Cream comes to escort Sonic to the Command Room, doing her best to keep the survivor's spirits up despite obviously being personally traumatized herself.
  3. On the way, they run into Vector and Espio, who are simultaneously bitter about the losses and yet plan to head out in hopes of finding what's left of their little buddy. 
  4. They get to the Command Center door blocked by Gemerl, who is still hostile to the threat Sonic poses but obliges to Amy's order on Cream's objection. 
  5. Sonic meets Amy and the two try to have some casual talk after several days of saving lives, but this comes to an abrupt halt when she responds to her allies in the field with increasing distress. 
  6. Sonic visibly wants to console her, but as the bleakness of the situation becomes hard to ignore, chooses leave quietly with the sadness on his face only being witnessed by the emotionless Gemerl. 
  7. Finally,  the issue ends as Starline acknowledges the negligence of Dr. Eggman and sets his sights on a file about The Zeti of the Lost Hex. 

I realize this doesn't do much to address your concern,  but barring Sonic assuring Amy he'll do something before leaving, it does have the results of the situation go from optimistic to worse. 

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2 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

please no, Geoffrey is a really bad character and he would bring nothing to the table other then someone Sonic can argue with and he already has plenty of other characters to bounc off, Lien-Da is just a very boring character who mostly didn't do anything other then just stand arround giving orders standing there, 

another pop-idol character would be a nice idea, and Hope would either go right or wrong because human characters either tend to be very boring in the Sonic universe.

That said I would say I believe Starline really surpassed Dr Finitvus he's already more original in design and  Finitvus often just seem evil for the sake of being evil while Starline's evil motivations comes from him idolizing Eggman. So I personally consider him the Anti-Tails, (or eh..the anti-Amy for the part of the fandom that believe Starline's feelings for Eggman are romantic of nature lololol) that and Starline seems to have a bit more of depth.

Still kneejerking at the mere invoking of Archie, I see? 

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1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

My theory for the 2 world is since we have Mystic Ruins (Tails's lab, Eggman's base) in IDW comics, Mystic ruins is on Mobius, and the train from mystic ruins is the portal to the human world (station square)

Seems a bit silly but if Sega wants to go along with this two world thing I can buy this explanation.

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5 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

What other way would there be?

I'm saying it's silly because we shouldn't have to conjure up theories for a concept so utterly unnecessary to begin with. Your theory does explain the existence of Angel Island and Knuckles Clan so it's fine enough I suppose.

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50 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Another Topaz expy?

There was one in Archie's run?

Madonna Garnet. 

41 minutes ago, lulzers said:

Or better yet, bring back Topaz herself.

I'd also be cool to see Sam Speed again.

They likely still can't because of copyright issues with TMS or whoever. Chris is the only exception that I know of. 

 

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2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

For most of her life? No she was bollers attempt among many to replace characters he wasn't fond of from the games. She wasn't particularly good or interesting and was kind of a mary sue.  At the end of her life, she was interesting. She was someone who had a message and was trying to get the message out and didn't necessarily with sonic and his friends , and that's interesting. See with shadow there's nothing much that can be done with that type of friction. No one is gonna learn anything as its already been made abundantly clear , and even with character changes shadow, shadow not agreeing with sonic and thinking he's handling the situation incorrectly... is inline with his character. They are characterized with people with opposing ideas and generally do their own thing and mind their own business.

A mina type character presents a very new, and relevant complication to lives of potentially every hero/antihero on animal planet. Simply put a super popular , super revered , beloved house hold name super star talking mad shit about sonic and his friends and swaying public opinion.

And you can play it both ways though I personally prefer the " Dark Route " in this scenario

The light route would be having her kinda disagree with how sonic and friends handle the situation. Like maybe at the end of this shadow's like " YOU ARE THE REASON THIS HAPPENED IN THIS FIRST PLACE " she and a bunch of people hear it because maybe its like televised or something and then later she comes out speaking out about sonic and coand how they maybe need to not be playing hero. And kind of make their a bit harder. 

   
And then there's dark route. You could potentially do a lot of socially relevant stuff with a toxic, popular popstar asshole spouting horrible opinions that unfortunately too much of the public agrees with over the air ways, tv , internet and swaying some opinion. Making the lives of the heroes much much worse. Blaming the resistance movement for being the cause of the things eggman is doing around the world and their inability to deal with problems. And sometimes just outright species-ism. She could suggest that we need to commandeer the M.E because knuckles just isn't " mentally equipped to handle it " and make terrible illusions as to why that's there's no more echidinas. She could suggest shadow needs to go back to space because he's an alien.Trying to get blaze to go away suggesting she isn't good at ruling because she seems to "take to many vacations to hour world " . Suggesting that silvers future continues to be bad because he associates himself with sonic and he would be much better off getting on the right side of history.  She can have this whole network of people finding out info on folks for her to gain social sway and sort of have the citizens wish to remove these once beloved heroes from their world. And sonic and co would have to navigate this, and maybe possibly have a shadow bonding moment because shadow defending people who may actively hate him is kinda his mo, and they finally get how dehumanizing that is.

And they can't just hit her, right? She's a private citizen, this being caught on tape would play into the fears she has fostered among the public making their lives worse. Someone does try to attack her for her views maybe it does get worse, and that's also a complication in the plan.

Whether she's an eggman plant or fully acting upon her own volition, there's a lot of potential here.

So, more like Fabian Vane or Justin Beaver, then? Mina, for whatever reason, is the only positively-portrayed pop singer in the franchise off the top of my head. 

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5 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

So, more like Fabian Vane or Justin Beaver, then? Mina, for whatever reason, is the only positively-portrayed pop singer in the franchise off the top of my head. 

Probably cause she wasn't conceived as one. 

Who's Fabian Vane? 

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10 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Madonna Garnet. 

They likely still can't because of copyright issues with TMS or whoever. Chris is the only exception that I know of. 

 

Sega owns TMS. It wouldn't make sense for them to not be able to use characters originating from Sonic X. That would be like if Disney was still unable to use the X-Men and Fantastic Four in the Marvel Cinematic Universe despite having purchased 20th Century Fox. From what I've seen, it's a baseless rumor started by the Archie Sonic Wiki and TV Tropes. (Which they've corrected long ago) Based on official statements from Ian Flynn, the reason why characters from Sonic Underground, the OVA and X never appeared in the Archie comics was due to Sega not allowing it. Since they were, in Ian's own words, not keen on giving attention to any past iterations of the franchise.

Though since he's stated that he has more creative freedom with IDW, that may change.

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2 hours ago, Forgetful Panda said:

You can also argue that Mystic Ruins is on the human world and Eggman, Starline, etc. have their own way of getting to it.

God. The idea of trying to sort out which locations are on which world gives me a headache. 

I wonder if Ian can call in and get a confirmation on anything like that. 

I mean, he wouldn't have to if they did the extremely easy, obvious, and far smarter thing of just having it be set on one world where both humans and animal-people coexisted but why do that when you can make people angry and the job of a story-teller harder with unnecessary nonsense? 

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I’m worried now that it’s too late to go back if Sega were to change their tune on the two worlds thing.

It’d be hard to for Ian to turn around and claim it was one world all along after this worldwide epidemic which somehow managed to avoid affecting any humans.

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12 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

But, if I look at this from the perspective of Sonic, I still don't like because his reaction to this major change in Amy as it kind of goes against my expectations of Sonic. Sonic is supposed to get angry and take action when he sees an injustice, and there are few greater injustices than seeing an optimistic person reduced to stressed out and desperate due to a world ending plague being unleashed on

 

Quote

it. But there isn't any anger on Sonic's part, and while that is fine, the lack of anger isn't explored when it should be. After all, this whole mess is his fault for sparing Eggman, so a lot of his anger should be aimed inward creating character conflict like @Shadowlax has been demanding. Instead, Shadow could be removed entirely from the IDW run so far and nothing of any real interest would be lost to me. For all of my complaints about detailed and dense story telling, no less how Amy has been handled this arc, at least no one has been as useless and unnecessary as Shadow. And frankly that sucks. I miss introspective I'll do this myself Shadow because he knows the dangers and his abilities. Egocentric my pride before the world Shadow is a waste of space in my opinion which plain sucks

So I wanna talk about, this. I don't think the problem is shadow being egotistical. Though while like you I prefer introspective shadow,  the issue lies deeper than him just being full of himself. This shadow has, unfortunately the same problem as boom shadow has which is...why? A lot of characters don't work without context and shadow is one of them And i think the overwhelming negative reaction to what has happened recently, and the desire to blame it on someone is proof that that is true.

So lets take a character , vegeta , and let me show you and various others in this thread about something I have been saying since last year and what I have felt the real issue is. But I don't think I have ever explained it. Vegeta works because there is a vector for his anger , his egotism, whatever. Whether its goku being stronger than him, protecting his family hating freiza, there's like a point. There's a point narrative that allows for his personality function in the narrative and allows for people to root for him. Even he had just murdered part of a stadium full of people. His fighting boo and fighting for his family and his son and after finally getting the power he thought he wanted and realizing it wasn't worth it. And you cheer for him, you know it isn't gonna work out... but you feel for him. Its emotional, there's a narrative ark there. It makes sense.

Shadow isn't even vegeta because...who's he fighting for... or what? Because he isn't specifically negative towards sonic specifically , he's just kind of anti social and angry towards everyone. Even his friends he doesn't interact with anymore. He isn't working towards someone as a goal, because to be blunt he's stronger than like most everyone. He's stronger than sonic, especially in this comic. Heck the recent issue went out of its way to have sonic say " Shadow isn't at his full power level to emphasize how much damage he was still doing " . Well maybe its an idea, to protect people? But that... hasn't really been delved into. Shadow seemingly is in that mindset in issue 6 but it quickly becomes more personal. And gets even more personally in issue 19. So maria and her promise isn't really a motivating factor either.

As a red robot with a ponytail and lightbulb nipples who shadow should have fought once said " WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR"

What IS he fighting for? And that's what I mean when I say " he has yet to been established" in this book. I can tell you why every other character is fighting for , and what they are doing it. But I cant tell you why shadow is doing anything he's doing because it isn't constant and makes no sense. He's not vegeta, vegeta has reasons. He's not even old broly. He's

latest?cb=20181003182045

This guy. Now some of you all like " Who is this man who conveniently to shadowlax's point actually kind of looks like shadow the hedgehog. " His name is cumber, the evil saiyan. He's from dragonball heroes. He has no motivation, he's just evil and a dick and fucks shit up. That's it. That's what he is right now. There is very little connective tissue between his actions and what's motivating them. There are people ( usually rouge ) trying to vocalize why he's doing what he's doing. But it largely doesn't pan out. Shadow's a rogue element. And it baffles me when i'm told he has been established, and then shit like 19 happens.

A combination of Sonic Team's editoral and Ian Flynn's desire to write this character a certain  way . The problem isn't that he's egotistical. Its that he's not doing anything, for anything.

But what's worse , as you have mentioned. Its benefits no one. Why does sonic ever need to think critically about anything if his opponents aren't. Why do these things matter if no one is going be narrative reprimanded for it in a way that results in growth.

 

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38 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

God. The idea of trying to sort out which locations are on which world gives me a headache. 

I wonder if Ian can call in and get a confirmation on anything like that. 

I mean, he wouldn't have to if they did the extremely easy, obvious, and far smarter thing of just having it be set on one world where both humans and animal-people coexisted but why do that when you can make people angry and the job of a story-teller harder with unnecessary nonsense? 

Eh, not really: the Adventure and most Shadow heavy games take place on the human world, the Classics, Handhelds, Heroes, and the other Modern games take place in Sonic's World, and things like characters and Emeralds can travel between the two.

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37 minutes ago, Forgetful Panda said:

I’m worried now that it’s too late to go back if Sega were to change their tune on the two worlds thing.

It’d be hard to for Ian to turn around and claim it was one world all along after this worldwide epidemic which somehow managed to avoid affecting any humans.

They're on the other side of the planet, like how we only see the not-broken side of the moon.

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34 minutes ago, Forgetful Panda said:

I’m worried now that it’s too late to go back if Sega were to change their tune on the two worlds thing.

It’d be hard to for Ian to turn around and claim it was one world all along after this worldwide epidemic which somehow managed to avoid affecting any humans.

Nah they'd just say they were all offscreen. That's basically the vibe of how the two worlds thing has been handled in general; the games have only ever made the absolute vaguest allusions to it even being a thing, and the comics will likely do the same, so there won't be anything of substance to contradict if they do switch back.

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28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

What IS he fighting for? And that's what I mean when I say " he has yet to been established" in this book. I can tell you why every other character is fighting for , and what they are doing it. But I cant tell you why shadow is doing anything he's doing because it isn't constant and makes no sense. He's not vegeta, vegeta has reasons. He's not even old broly. He's

latest?cb=20181003182045

This guy. Now some of you all like " Who is this man who conveniently to shadowlax's point actually kind of looks like shadow the hedgehog. " His name is cumber, the evil saiyan. He's from dragonball heroes. He has no motivation, he's just evil and a dick and fucks shit up. That's it. That's what he is right now. There is very little connective tissue between his actions and what's motivating them.

Essentially.

Though I thought Cumber looked to be controlled by Cooler or whoever?

 

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4 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

Just giving out my honest opnion, not to mention I didn't say anything bad about Hope or Mina but you still chose to ignore that I see.

Ignoring=Replying? :confused:

Uh, anyway, the reason for my unimpressed reaction is that you ended up...well, ignoring the true point of that post altogether.

Which wasn't really fair to him/her.

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3 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

My theory for the 2 world is since we have Mystic Ruins (Tails's lab, Eggman's base) in IDW comics, Mystic ruins is on Mobius, and the train from mystic ruins is the portal to the human world (station square)

Spoiler

856af7879d9348b8b434aa71a5ec546a-full.pn

I dunno how you've managed to accidentally bring Thomas and the Magic Railroad logic into the Sonic Universe but I'm more than happy to go along with this 😅

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4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

My theory for the 2 world is since we have Mystic Ruins (Tails's lab, Eggman's base) in IDW comics, Mystic ruins is on Mobius, and the train from mystic ruins is the portal to the human world (station square)

The Tails' Lab shown here seems to be more in some kind of GHZ-like though, it didn't seemed like being in the Mystic Ruins at all (the problem is that the Tails' Lab is pretty inconsistent through the series having been shown in many different locations… A possibility is that Tails' build a lab when he need one).

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