Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I still don't agree Shadow has no purpose, but we've beaten that horse to death by now.

If you feel like answering feel free. If you don't that's fine.

What does he do , that gives him unique purpose opposed to everyone else. And why is he doing it? This isn't sarcasm, or me trying to be coy, I genuinely cannot come up with anything that has been presented that makes him unique in that regard.

" Save the world " everyone's doing that, why is he special?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, lulzers said:

Say, what if IDW made expies of Geoffrey St. John, Mina Mongoose, Lien-Da, and Hope Kintobor respectively? We've already got a Dr. Finitevus expy in the form of Starline.

Come to think of it, if expies are on the table, I'm sure there are plenty of other characters both major and minor who could do with a fresh code of paint and a redux.

15 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1) With exception o teleportation tech, FInitevus and Starline aren't that similar.

There's also the urbane demeanor and the intentional design elements.

The roles and [thus far] threat level of them are indeed different otherwise.

Quote

They evil scientists, but dr Ellidy wasn't expy of Chuck.

Si if you're asking if I want someone just vaguely remind me of character x, then connection is too loose for me to care either way.  It't just recycling some tropes.

Eh, sorta? I mean, he was clearly more Old King Max's with Nate Morgan's influence.

But yes, that is an important factor in this topic that should be remembered.

Quote

But even if you suggested my favorites, like Elias, I still don't feel the need for them. I rather move forward. (Not to mention how hard would be to recreated some of them).

Mm...yeah, Elias is one that's honestly super context heavy.

Quote

3) With current model of 1-part stories there is no place for bigger OCs, even when we get a spin-off book it. Right now we could use more villains and Jewel/ElderScruffy/Vanilla sort of civilians, just important enough to make world more alive, not enough to take screen time.

Most likely. 

Quote

My suggestion: give Amy second-in-command to give face to Restoration. Later that character would take over when we get bored with leader-Amy concept.

Ah yes, that's an excellent idea. That could go hand in hand with having another Geoffrey/Hershey even.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

If you feel like answering feel free. If you don't that's fine.

What does he do , that gives him unique purpose opposed to everyone else. And why is he doing it? This isn't sarcasm, or me trying to be coy, I genuinely cannot come up with anything that has been presented that makes him unique in that regard.

" Save the world " everyone's doing that, why is he special?

Unless he has an arc with Black Arms or something related to his origin, he is just like anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

If you feel like answering feel free. If you don't that's fine.

What does he do , that gives him unique purpose opposed to everyone else. And why is he doing it? This isn't sarcasm, or me trying to be coy, I genuinely cannot come up with anything that has been presented that makes him unique in that regard.

" Save the world " everyone's doing that, why is he special?

Is that any of that relevant to the current arc though? Why does he need a unique purpose in an arc that's not particularly about him to begin with? 

This is what I was getting at when I said this arc is an ensemble arc that focuses on many different characters, with obviously Sonic being at the center.

So I'm like...I don't really need to know what Shadow's most inner and deeper motivations are in that case, because they're not what the arc is about...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Wraith said:

So are they like interesting characters in it or are they just more "threatening" and thus good

I’d say more the latter considering Worlds Unite wasn’t that good to begin with.

Tho, that ironically makes them more interesting than everything else they’ve been in given the added teeth they have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Is that any of that relevant to the current arc though? Why does he need a unique purpose in an arc that's not particularly about him to begin with? 

Yes? Generally knowing what a character motivations are about allows you to follow and like that character, which is important considering they are deciding to focus issues around that character.

Quote

This is what I was getting at when I said this arc is an ensemble arc that focuses on many different characters, with obviously Sonic being at the center.

So I'm like...I don't really need to know what Shadow's most inner and deeper motivations are in that case, because they're not what the arc is about...

It isn't what the arc is about... its what allow characters to function. They have effectively done this with every single other character, even gemril... and not shadow. So it doesn't have to be what the narrative is about it sticks out like a sore thumb in a franchise primarly about characters. Its why this franchise exists , its why it still exists because it was able to sell itself even through the bad times...with characters. I can go down a list of when and how characterization was established for every character, in this book ...except for shadow. And shadow sticks out even more for people because he's kind of the character you need to do that with because its kind of his thing.

So yeah you kinda do need to know, or that character is generally taking up space. That's generally important when trying to write stories with large casts. You to establish why folks are there. or they are..just there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, not really: the Adventure and most Shadow heavy games take place on the human world, the Classics, Handhelds, Heroes, and the other Modern games take place in Sonic's World, and things like characters and Emeralds can travel between the two.

I'm amazed that you think so. 

Assumptions like that just aren't an easy thing for me to make. I've been given no reason to feel comfortable about how this all works but I suppose I could be persuaded if somebody sorts things out. 

Apparently the floating island can pass between the two worlds as well. Just like in Sonic X.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Unless he has an arc with Black Arms or something related to his origin, he is just like anyone else.

The issue with that is, he's not acting like that.

Is it is friends? He doesn't talk to them.

Maria, the only plot line that could have possibly been important to his characterization that could have meant something in that regard, was effectively rendered void with his character last issue.

His ideals? Same thing.

Everyone else defectively gets to slide on in because their characterizations generally line up with who they were previously and establish who they are. Shadow has done nothing except be angry so... yeah? Like if he was angry at a thing, sure. But he doesn't even seem to be angry at a thing... he just seems...angry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

For most of her life? No she was bollers attempt among many to replace characters he wasn't fond of from the games. She wasn't particularly good or interesting and was kind of a mary sue.  At the end of her life, she was interesting. She was someone who had a message and was trying to get the message out and didn't necessarily with sonic and his friends , and that's interesting. See with shadow there's nothing much that can be done with that type of friction. No one is gonna learn anything as its already been made abundantly clear , and even with character changes shadow, shadow not agreeing with sonic and thinking he's handling the situation incorrectly... is inline with his character. They are characterized with people with opposing ideas and generally do their own thing and mind their own business.

A mina type character presents a very new, and relevant complication to lives of potentially every hero/antihero on animal planet. Simply put a super popular , super revered , beloved house hold name super star talking mad shit about sonic and his friends and swaying public opinion.

And you can play it both ways though I personally prefer the " Dark Route " in this scenario

The light route would be having her kinda disagree with how sonic and friends handle the situation. Like maybe at the end of this shadow's like " YOU ARE THE REASON THIS HAPPENED IN THIS FIRST PLACE " she and a bunch of people hear it because maybe its like televised or something and then later she comes out speaking out about sonic and coand how they maybe need to not be playing hero. And kind of make their a bit harder. 

   
And then there's dark route. You could potentially do a lot of socially relevant stuff with a toxic, popular popstar asshole spouting horrible opinions that unfortunately too much of the public agrees with over the air ways, tv , internet and swaying some opinion. Making the lives of the heroes much much worse. Blaming the resistance movement for being the cause of the things eggman is doing around the world and their inability to deal with problems. And sometimes just outright species-ism. She could suggest that we need to commandeer the M.E because knuckles just isn't " mentally equipped to handle it " and make terrible illusions as to why that's there's no more echidinas. She could suggest shadow needs to go back to space because he's an alien.Trying to get blaze to go away suggesting she isn't good at ruling because she seems to "take to many vacations to hour world " . Suggesting that silvers future continues to be bad because he associates himself with sonic and he would be much better off getting on the right side of history.  She can have this whole network of people finding out info on folks for her to gain social sway and sort of have the citizens wish to remove these once beloved heroes from their world. And sonic and co would have to navigate this, and maybe possibly have a shadow bonding moment because shadow defending people who may actively hate him is kinda his mo, and they finally get how dehumanizing that is.

And they can't just hit her, right? She's a private citizen, this being caught on tape would play into the fears she has fostered among the public making their lives worse. Someone does try to attack her for her views maybe it does get worse, and that's also a complication in the plan.

Whether she's an eggman plant or fully acting upon her own volition, there's a lot of potential here.

Trying to figure out what this sounds like.

6 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Glad to see there aren't any defeatists concerning these guys, unlike with... Classic Sonic.

How so?

Quote

The Six being substitute Hooligans is a good idea for them, SEGA seem to be making inroads already with Zavok as a go-to thug with little context.

Eh, nah, I think they're collectively better off being their own thing.

And honestly, Zavok in TSR's Story makes me think that was a role decided before they got the roster finalized and they just slipped him into it without adjusting more than his dialogue.

17 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Unless he has an arc with Black Arms or something related to his origin, he is just like anyone else.

And/or fight a bigger/eviler villain or investigate some deeper backstory.

And considering the bigger/eviler villain in both this and TSR is Eggman, well, no dice.

36 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

If you feel like answering feel free. If you don't that's fine.

What does he do , that gives him unique purpose opposed to everyone else. And why is he doing it? This isn't sarcasm, or me trying to be coy, I genuinely cannot come up with anything that has been presented that makes him unique in that regard.

" Save the world " everyone's doing that, why is he special?

Be a prick who causes extra conflict because antihero.

8 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm amazed that you think so. 

Assumptions like that just aren't an easy thing for me to make. I've been given no reason to feel comfortable about how this all works but I suppose I could be persuaded if somebody sorts things out. 

Apparently the floating island can pass between the two worlds as well. Just like in Sonic X.

Probably because it's really not too difficult to at least box off in my mind.

There are two worlds--one primarily animal, one primarily human. Okay. sure, why not?

They can travel between each other--will we see how this looks or works? No? Okay then, it's just something that apparently is, but doesn't really matter.

And yes, Sonic X is obviously an existing example of how it can work, so that helps at last a little. This is a series where characters used to hop between dimensions every once in a while.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Probably because it's really not too difficult to at least box off in my mind.

Now that I agree with at least. However, I don't do it by trying to make sense of it. I just ignore it. 

Unless it's something that'll come up naturally and be essential to the plot of a game, there's no use paying it any mind as something that exists. I did say that when the news was hitting that this two worlds thing was coming out into the open. The future games will probably continue to not make any mention of it or treat it like it matters so in turn I do think a good experiment is to treat it as though it's still all one world. Not only is it less confusing but the games won't do much to fight you on it.

Most of what I was talking about was how it would affect the comic though. If it's going to be directly referred to in the comics than it's not going to be something they can box off. 

It'll take some re-working of specific concepts but it's probably doable. 

Mostly, I just wish it weren't a thing at all. 

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Okay. sure, why not?

I can't say I share that mentality though. Maybe if the foundation for this was stronger and it felt more ingrained within what we've been told and shown rather then something we all collectively just learned about in an interview, I'd be with you there. However, as is, this is beyond absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Now that I agree with at least. However, I don't do it by trying to make sense of it. I just ignore it. 

Unless it's something that'll come up naturally and be essential to the plot of a game, there's no use paying it any mind as something that exists. I did say that when the news was hitting that this two worlds thing was coming out into the open. The future games will probably continue to not make any mention of it or treat it like it matters so in turn I do think a good experiment is to treat it as though it's still all one world. Not only is it less confusing but the games won't do much to fight you on it.

Most of what I was talking about was how it would affect the comic though. If it's going to be directly referred to in the comics than it's not going to be something they can box off. 

It'll take some re-working of specific concepts but it's probably doable. 

Mostly, I just wish it weren't a thing at all. 

I can't say I share that mentality though. Maybe if the foundation for this was stronger and it felt more ingrained within what we've been told and shown rather then something we all collectively just learned about in an interview, I'd be with you there. However, as is, this is beyond absurd.

I also think it's primarily a way for Forces to have the Resistance and citizens be Mobians without bringing in the obviously Human/Overlander GUN, the United Federation, or the Gaia Temple locales.

Multiple levels, buddy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I also think it's primarily a way for Forces to have the Resistance and citizens by Mobians without bringing in GUN, the United Federation, or the Gaia Temple locales.

Multiple levels, buddy.

I can't think of a reason as to why they would need to do that. 

Personally, I'd have preferred they just tricked out GUN a little more. Made the humans more wacky looking. Give specific people their own gimmicks or even make it so the animal-people aren't the only ones with strange, random powers. Do more weird, cartoony shit with their technology, like the meme that is the GUN Truck. Add some animal-soldiers to mix with the human-soldiers (for the longest time we thought Shadow and Rouge might have been part of that) and let the "resistance" not really be a thing. Just do what Shadow the Hedgehog did and have Sonic's friends acting independently of the army. It was far more fun seeing them all spread out, doing their own thing, rather than huddled together in that one room.

And the Gaia temples were a neat little thing for the Chaos Emeralds to have. Little shrines for the emeralds while the Master Emerald was on the floating island altar. It wasn't entirely explained how they came to be but I was okay with that. Not every mystery needs a clear cut explanation, especially ancient ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I can't think of a reason as to why they would need to do that. 

Personally, I'd have preferred they just tricked out GUN a little more. Made the humans more wacky looking. Give specific people their own gimmicks or even make it so the animal-people aren't the only ones with strange, random powers. Do more weird, cartoony shit with their technology, like the meme that is the GUN Truck. Add some animal-soldiers to mix with the human-soldiers (for the longest time we thought Shadow and Rouge might have been part of that) and let the "resistance" not really be a thing. Just do what Shadow the Hedgehog did and have Sonic's friends acting independently of the army. It was far more fun seeing them all spread out, doing their own thing, rather than huddled together in that one room.

And the Gaia temples were a neat little thing for the Chaos Emeralds to have. Little shrines for the emeralds while the Master Emerald was on the floating island altar. It wasn't entirely explained how they came to be but I was okay with that. Not every mystery needs a clear cut explanation, especially ancient ones.

Huh. I suppose that might've been interesting.

It could've helped push the idea that the GUN of today is not as corrupt as it once was and that goes double now that Shadow & Tower have patched things up. And even better, they'd be more inclusive and innovative: welcoming whatever help and tools will aid in protecting the world from villains like Eggman & Black Doom. That could mean cyborgs and genetically enhanced super soldiers would enter the series as an occasional thing. I mean, I'd personal keep Commander Tower & maybe a few others as an inbetween of Eggman and Elise for the sake of consistency & distinction, but yeah, that all sounds cool.

 

Of course, I'm sure we know a couple of reasons why Forces wasn't that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Yes? Generally knowing what a character motivations are about allows you to follow and like that character, which is important considering they are deciding to focus issues around that character.

It isn't what the arc is about... its what allow characters to function. They have effectively done this with every single other character, even gemril... and not shadow. So it doesn't have to be what the narrative is about it sticks out like a sore thumb in a franchise primarly about characters. Its why this franchise exists , its why it still exists because it was able to sell itself even through the bad times...with characters. I can go down a list of when and how characterization was established for every character, in this book ...except for shadow. And shadow sticks out even more for people because he's kind of the character you need to do that with because its kind of his thing.

So yeah you kinda do need to know, or that character is generally taking up space. That's generally important when trying to write stories with large casts. You to establish why folks are there. or they are..just there.

What other reason beyond "There is a zombie apocalypse happening right now, maybe I should try and stop it" does a person need to know...

Why is that reasoning fine for every other character,  but Shadow needs some much deeper meaning to what he does in order to justify his existence? I don't get it, this feels less like an actual problem and more just wanting more context to something that doesn't need it. 

 

And before this drags on, because I know you're stubborn about this, I'm simply going to end it here. I don't find anything wrong with Shadow, but you do and I don't feel like having another 10 page debate about this for the upteenth time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What other reason beyond "There is a zombie apocalypse happening right now, maybe I should try and stop it" does a person need to know...

 

Quote

Why is that reasoning fine for every other character,  but Shadow needs some much deeper meaning to what he does in order to justify his existence?

So here's the issue, they have those other reasons,  and they had those reasons before the apocolypse. And those reasons generally fuel how a character acts. Everyone is dealing with zombie Apocalypse. But who that character is and why they do what they do, informs how they act in that scenario. so yeah motivations matter. Do you actually need to know more. It informs how everyone is dealing with the situation. But shadow... has none , we don't know why he's fighting... he's just angry. You seem content with that, maybe you don't like him being a character? That's cool, just seems kinda weird to me.


But you want to be done so, I wont bother you about it anymore. just wanted to pick your brain, thanks for humoring me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, a Zombie a-poc story like this doesn't really lend it self well to exploring the characters.

That's why Sonic has the whole corruption thing...but even then it's not really doing "much" for him.

What is Sonic's limit: is the only thing to really get out of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Honestly, a Zombie a-poc story like this doesn't really lend it self well to exploring the characters.

That's why Sonic has the whole corruption thing...but even then it's not really doing "much" for him.

What is Sonic's limit: is the only thing to really get out of that.

Not unless you have the characters travel together and react differently to the choices/decisions they make in certain dilemmas, which they haven't really been doing aside from maybe Charmy going back for the girl Vector trapped and Gemerl/Omega being willing to outright destroy the Zombots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

I was gonna mention the Chaotix's thing with Charmy, but I didn't think I worded it well enough.

They do benefit from this more than the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Personally, I feel like I got a lot out of that one issue with the Chaotix. At least when it came to the actions and differences in idealism between Vector and Charmy. I was also digging the back and forth Sonic and Shadow had about their difference in approach to this.

What you can gleam from the characters and what counts as exploring them seems to vary from person to person though.

Mm, I suppose.

Funnily enough, I remember being a little eh on that issue--I didn't dislike it, but I wasn't really into it. But as I said then, it was probably a combination of feeling the Chaotix hadn't really gotten much screentime at that point and having been self-defeatingly attached to TWDG for so long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Mm, I suppose.

Funnily enough, I remember being a little eh on that issue--I didn't dislike it, but I wasn't really into it. But as I said then, it was probably a combination of feeling the Chaotix hadn't really gotten much screentime at that point and having been self-defeatingly attached to TWDG for so long.

I'm sorry for possibly sounding stupid but what is TWDG?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.