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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


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22 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

When has Sonic ever been the leader of anything?

He'll be the "lead" because he's the fastest, but he ain't giving order or coming up with plans for a team.

I believe he did lead Team Freedom briefly during the Mecha Sally arc. He chose to have everyone put out fires in a village instead of blindly running after Sally. 

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2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know,  I don't really think Knukles as leader was THAT bad idea. obviously not perfect, but I can see some logic behind it. I mean, how many times you see main hero (like IDK, Sonic) getting to be the leader, despite how little experience he has.

Obviously best choices (Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, Sally Acorn) were for different reasons unavailable). But why pick Knuckles over Amy, Vector or Rouge?

 

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

I wouldn't go as far as calling Knuckles figurehead, but I imagine his stubborn tenacity was fundamentals for Resistance. Boosting morals, teaching rookies, leading bigger battle, making quick decisions in heated moments. But all major tactical moves were decided by group (like Amy stopping Knuckles from going on field before one of last missions). At least that's what I would like it to be, as Sega won't give a damn and Flynn just gave up.

I actually want to comment on this, I think this line of thinking is flawed. You ever watch Attack on Titian. I'm not gonna spoil it for you, but it craps on this entire idea. Simply put, leadership can be learned. It is a learned skill. It is something that can be acquired through experience over a short period of time, all the other traits amy or tails has over Knuckles...can't. And I would personally make the argument that knuckles needs those skills to lead effectively. So if the characters has all that other stuff, but doesn't quite know how to bring it together to be a leader, you put them in a position for them to learn howto be a leader. And IMO tails learning how to be a leader in a story line where he has to learn how to be independent and put the pieces together, sounds infinitely more interesting as a narrative than knuckles being the leader of anything. Same with a lot of sonic characters. Not dumping on you or nothing , but knuckles IMO is a really bad choice. 

Knuckles is a recluse who I feel doesn't really work in large groups, even among his immediate friend group he's still kind of a dense weirdo , let a lone of a whole army. You can learn how to be a leader, Knuckles can't learn how to be tails...or amy or anyone else with the personality , character traits or outright people experience that would allow him to be an effective leader. Like maybe if there was some whole arc where knuckles learned and grew and became a more well rounded person not interns of being nice but his way of thinking, then sure. But as it stands, he's aztech fuzzy lumpkins. And Like yeah , i'm calling fuzzy if i'm in a scrap . I'm not following him anywhere

And this kinda leads me to my last point. I think the reason why this sort of choosing a leader logic is flawed, it ignores trust. Part of being a leader is people trust you and its seems a lot of people in the fanbase don't trust knuckles to do anything. Heck even amy doesn't trust him in forces and jokes about it. I kinda don't trust knuckles to do most things besides punch and find treasure. His whole deal is that he's gullible and bad at his job. And all the traits that you have listed aren't unique to him, and the other characters who do have that actually have better other traits to make them better leaders.

For me personally looking at it as just a narrative thing, I don't really see the logic in making knuckles the leader. It just seems like the rest of the game, corporate. He's a cool rival boy character and the other one is busy. So that one, the kids like that one.

Also Batman leads the justice league all the time? Like all the time? Like it happens frequently and other smart people do it too. The " leader " of that team changes depending on what that story is about.

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20 hours ago, Razule said:

We didn't even know animal people had a society until Forces.Rings could be part of a barter system.

We've known they had a society since Sonic 1, which had two different cities. And if rings are part of a barter system, doesn't that make them currency?

20 hours ago, Razule said:

Maybe the Chaotix live on the human world. This would explain that one time in the Sonic X comic where Eggman was perplexed by the idea of money.

Sonic X isn't canon, the comic even less so.

6 hours ago, StaticMania said:

When has Sonic ever been the leader of anything?

He'll be the "lead" because he's the fastest, but he ain't giving order or coming up with plans for a team.

He's the leader of Team Sonic. Why do you think it's named after him?

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15 hours ago, Ellipsis-Ultima said:

So uh, no main issue this month. Coming October 2nd.

On the bright side we should get two issues that day...

Nope, it means Tangle & Whisper will have to be delayed 1 week too to give room for sales of the main issue.

So October 9 (!!) For T&W issue 3!! Instead of... September 18 original release date

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12 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know,  I don't really think Knukles as leader was THAT bad idea. obviously not perfect, but I can see some logic behind it. I mean, how many times you see main hero (like IDK, Sonic) getting to be the leader, despite how little experience he has.

Obviously best choices (Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, Sally Acorn) were for different reasons unavailable). But why pick Knuckles over Amy, Vector or Rouge?

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

I wouldn't go as far as calling Knuckles figurehead, but I imagine his stubborn tenacity was fundamentals for Resistance. Boosting morals, teaching rookies, leading bigger battle, making quick decisions in heated moments. But all major tactical moves were decided by group (like Amy stopping Knuckles from going on field before one of last missions). At least that's what I would like it to be, as Sega won't give a damn and Flynn just gave up.

I think we're also forgetting the fact that Knuckles comes from a warrior tribe, and may have better understanding in regards to the fundamentals of war and war-related tactics. I always felt like, rather than just Amy, Knuckles should have been contributing more in the tactician area, whereas Amy could also do so, but was more of the morale booster of the resistance, who also pointed out the occasional flaws in Knux's logic. Vector's a good detective, and I do think he's got good leadership qualities, but I feel like Knuckles is the type who might understand war better given his heritage. And would be more likely to make decisions in battle Vector would sooner hesitate towards.

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Its also worth mentioning exactly what they were up against in terms of selecting a leader. Not only does Knux have the most experience dealing with Eggman outside of Sonic and Tails, but Infinite posed a unique threat in the form of fear. People were afraid of him and what he could do. The leader of the resistance had to be someone who could dependably stand up to that fear. Even Espio was referring to him as a "monster".  Knux is probably the safest and best choice on that front.

There is no one type of leadership style, and there a ton of ways to get the job done.

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3 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

I think we're also forgetting the fact that Knuckles comes from a warrior tribe, and may have better understanding in regards to the fundamentals of war and war-related tactics. I always felt like, rather than just Amy, Knuckles should have been contributing more in the tactician area, whereas Amy could also do so, but was more of the morale booster of the resistance, who also pointed out the occasional flaws in Knux's logic. Vector's a good detective, and I do think he's got good leadership qualities, but I feel like Knuckles is the type who might understand war better given his heritage. And would be more likely to make decisions in battle Vector would sooner hesitate towards.

I don't really feel like it matters what tribe Knuckles comes from, honestly. Looking over the information we have about Knuckles, most of his character deals with the fact that he's isolated. He doesn't even really seem to know that much about his tribe's past or fully understands why he needs to guard the Emerald. I don't see how he'd have any understanding of the fundamentals of war or war-related tactics. I could see Knuckles in a trainer position for new recruits or the leader of a specific platoon of people but an entire army seems out of his wheelhouse. 

I also don't know how more likely he would be to make tough decisions than Vector. I'm not sure why Vector would hesitate towards anything. He doesn't give off the vibe of someone who'd have a tough time making the right call if it meant being pragmatic. Hell, we have a good example of that in this very comic where an infected woman was screaming for help and he instantly started slamming cars around her before refocusing on evacuation. He gave a little "I'm sorry" but that was it. 

Knuckles has qualities to him that a good leader could have, as do most of the characters honestly, but I do feel like most of what makes Knuckles stand-out as an odd choice for a leader are the things about him that make him uniquely not fit to be leader. I do find his origin of isolation and tendency to want to take care of things on his own as well as his questionable intelligence and proficient gullibility to be things that stick out more than they would for someone like Amy or Vector.

Though to be honest, I don't feel like the characters should be huddled together in an army at all. They should have done what they did in Shadow's game again. Have them be separated, doing what they can with their own objectives, while GUN handles the military stuff... but GUNs not a thing on "Sonic's World" so whatever.

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17 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

Well, the argument was never just about intelligence anyway. That's one of the factors but I do feel like all of the other stuff you need to be a leader is being accounted for when questioning whether Knuckles is a good fit or not. Personally, I don't feel like Knuckles is. He really would be one of the last people I'd go to when it comes to asking him to lead... anything.

I don't even know if Pearl actually is smarter than Garnet. They both seemed equally intelligent to me. Pearl was just a lot more dainty while Garnet was a lot more hard and straight-forward. I don't know. Maybe Rebecca Sugar confirmed that and I missed it. 

I also don't have any proof that Vector wouldn't be able to handle the position if it meant the world was riding on it. Why is Amy arguable be he isn't? Probably just comes down to what your personal perception of the character is.

Vector seems like the best choice to me. He's got leadership experience as he already runs some kind of an agency. He's in a position where stressful situations would most likely crop up a lot more frequently (even if the scale of danger isn't as big in comparison should one crop up for Knuckles). He's shown that he can be tough and pragmatic when it comes to doing what needs to be done despite being a bit of a softie underneath his rough exterior. And when it actually comes down to intelligence I feel like it would probably go without saying that he's got that over Knuckles too.

So pick your poison I guess. Though, again, I'd rather they just didn't take the Resistance angle at all. 

 

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It’s not like Knuckles being a leader of some kind isn’t plausible—he was more or less the leader of the Chaotix in Archie pre-Reboot.

The problem is really on the development—Archie!Knuckles was developed to the point where he earned the position to lead a group of his own. Game!Knuckles and IDW!Knuckles which follows suit, hasn’t had such development, and so it comes off as him leading out of the blue when nothing he’s done up to that point that makes enough sense to place him as a leader.

And if we’re talking about leadership just in terms of who has the guts to face Infinite, then by all rights the leader should have more or less been Silver instead of Knuckles, but he certainly isn’t looked at as the best choice either if you take his development into account.

To be honest, Vector wasn’t anywhere close to the first person I’d assume as someone to be the leader of the Resistance off the bat, but taking everything about him into account—guy was apparently the least fazed of his team to realize it was Dr. Eggman who hired him in Heroes (and not a major hothead like Knuckles), never mind the risk he took accepting the job in the first place, on top of the fact that he knows how to run an organization (however small or struggling it is)—he’s actually one of the better choices looking back compared to Knuckles.

If anything, Knuckles would’ve been better suited out on the field engaging directly in guerilla warfare setting traps and causing mayhem on Eggman’s forces, because that’s far more suiting for a tribal warrior like him that’s more willing to jump into fights.

As if Forces couldn’t show enough of how much it wasted its ambition.

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I know how to solve this. 

We throw all the candidates for leader into a holding pen and give them a sword. Whoever comes out alive gets to be leader.

Now that has the unfortunate side-effect of leaving all the people you would lead as deceased BUT you get to face the epic challenge of figuring out how to lead a group of dead people into battle. Anyone who can do that would undoubtedly be proven to be the best leader.

Or make Charmy the leader and watch him draw up battle plans in crayon. 

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Vector was probably the person on-hand with the best qualities to lead the group as a whole. Despite his goofish exterior, he has been shown to have a really good head on his shoulders. He's bright, quick-witted and plays his cards close to his chest, even among his own allies. He'll make hard choices and he has an almost precognitive sense of the big picture. He's also one of the few adults in a room full of children which has to account for something.

 

Knuckles was the last man standing of Team Sonic tho. Its also worth mentioning that promoting him as a beacon of hope would be the easiest way to channel some of the "Sonic mojo" that they no longer had access to with Big Blue out of the picture. If the name of the game was to inspire resistance, you'd want to tie yourself to Sonic's legacy as much as humanly possible. With Tails out of the picture, that can only fall to Knuckles...

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That's fantastic.

A plausible reason for Knuckles being the leader is that now...he's the closest thing to Sonic the Hedgehog that they have.

No really, that's an excellent explanation.

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30 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Vector was probably the person on-hand with the best qualities to lead the group as a whole. Despite his goofish exterior, he has been shown to have a really good head on his shoulders. He's bright, quick-witted and plays his cards close to his chest, even among his own allies. He'll make hard choices and he has an almost precognitive sense of the big picture. He's also one of the few adults in a room full of children which has to account for something.

 

Knuckles was the last man standing of Team Sonic tho. Its also worth mentioning that promoting him as a beacon of hope would be the easiest way to channel some of the "Sonic mojo" that they no longer had access to with Big Blue out of the picture. If the name of the game was to inspire resistance, you'd want to tie yourself to Sonic's legacy as much as humanly possible. With Tails out of the picture, that can only fall to Knuckles...

Then Knuckles should be more the champion of the group instead of the leader. The same place Sonic was for the Freedom Fighters while Sally was the one in charge.

If anything, that very comparison to Sonic makes him less suited for leadership in the position he was in Forces, and much better off as the resistance’s second best choice of being a field soldier since. It would make him more mobile too, and he’d have the chance to live a moment like Sonic and know how he feels as an adventure for a brief period.

Vector should still be the head guy in charge. :P 

Makes more sense to have one of the top 5 physically strongest people active than behind the office, especially one that doesn’t have much experience with directing teams based on their background.

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Most of these characters don't know eachother that well and there would probably be no concentrated resistance effort without Sonic to begin with. The whole the idea of the resistance doesn't feel like it was thought out very much without even getting into who should lead. 

 

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Yeah. Which is why the way Shadow's game handled it is still the best to me. I honestly like that most of them don't know each other that well. It helps the world feel big and it makes them feel more interesting.

Forces stripped a lot of the intrigue from the characters away by forcing them to stay together like some sort of gelatonous mass.

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41 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

That's fantastic.

A plausible reason for Knuckles being the leader is that now...he's the closest thing to Sonic the Hedgehog that they have.

No really, that's an excellent explanation.

It also shows how they became too dependent on Sonic over the years.

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2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Vector was probably the person on-hand with the best qualities to lead the group as a whole. Despite his goofish exterior, he has been shown to have a really good head on his shoulders. He's bright, quick-witted and plays his cards close to his chest, even among his own allies. He'll make hard choices and he has an almost precognitive sense of the big picture. He's also one of the few adults in a room full of children which has to account for something.

 

Knuckles was the last man standing of Team Sonic tho. Its also worth mentioning that promoting him as a beacon of hope would be the easiest way to channel some of the "Sonic mojo" that they no longer had access to with Big Blue out of the picture. If the name of the game was to inspire resistance, you'd want to tie yourself to Sonic's legacy as much as humanly possible. With Tails out of the picture, that can only fall to Knuckles...

That just says they became to dependent on sonic and speaks really poorly of them. Then again, that's a good descriptor for the plot of that game so eh.

Like a game where multiple characters started their own resistance efforts and are doing their own thing, gives a bunch of people agency allows multiple characters to be leaders and shows they can be their own person.

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Most of these characters don't know eachother that well and there would probably be no concentrated resistance effort without Sonic to begin with. The whole the idea of the resistance doesn't feel like it was thought out very much without even getting into who should lead. 

 

 

Eh I don't believe there would be no concentrated resistance effort. But I will say yeah most of the characters actually don't know eachother that well and them all being the leaders of the resistance and known entities is kinda...weird. Yeah it wasn't thought out that well

2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah. Which is why the way Shadow's game handled it is still the best to me. I honestly like that most of them don't know each other that well. It helps the world feel big and it makes them feel more interesting.

Forces stripped a lot of the intrigue from the characters away by forcing them to stay together like some sort of gelatonous mass.

It also didn't allow them to be doing anything. I dunno, if forces was focused more around the avatar and instead of teaming up with just sonic there were levels you teamed up with everyone else. So you cuold actually show them..doing things, probably would have communicated that narrative better

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2 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Then Knuckles should be more the champion of the group instead of the leader. The same place Sonic was for the Freedom Fighters while Sally was the one in charge.

I think thats an off comparison. It was a different situation with the FF. There was another character present that could come much closer to matching Sonic's ability to rally the masses in Sally. Her natural leadership capabilities, combined with her linage and connection to the old guard made Sonic much more... expendable in the scope of recruiting the masses. He was still important to that effort no doubt, but unlike the game-verse he wasn't the only show in town.

In the game verse, Sonic has to pull double and even triple duty as the Champion, FigureHead and One-Man-Rally-Flag.

 

2 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

If anything, that very comparison to Sonic makes him less suited for leadership in the position he was in Forces, and much better off as the resistance’s second best choice of being a field soldier since. It would make him more mobile too, and he’d have the chance to live a moment like Sonic and know how he feels as an adventure for a brief period.

Vector should still be the head guy in charge. :P 

Makes more sense to have one of the top 5 physically strongest people active than behind the office, especially one that doesn’t have much experience with directing teams based on their background.

That's shortsighted. Keeping Knuckles off the front lines essentially protects the last piece of Team Sonic you have left. If Knuckles has value as the herald of Sonic's legacy, then you can't risk losing him, and keeping him behind and only deploying him when absolutely necessary is the best move for the long haul. Especially before that had any tangible information about what Infinite actually was.

Its a chess game. You don't always win by throwing you biggest and best at every problem. Tactical deployment and the long game is much more important. As hot-headed as he is, Knux understands that. He once shattered the master emerald knowing a broken gem would prevent it from falling in the wrong hands and he could fix it later.

Even if he is one of your best combat assets, what he represents may be worth even more. The only thing the Resistance had going for it in Sonic's absence was a dang good recruiting drive. Sonic's legacy likely was the driving force behind that. Loosing Knux could have been the nail in the coffin for any civie holding out hope they could win.

2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That just says they became to dependent on sonic and speaks really poorly of them. Then again, that's a good descriptor for the plot of that game so eh.

Like a game where multiple characters started their own resistance efforts and are doing their own thing, gives a bunch of people agency allows multiple characters to be leaders and shows they can be their own person.

Infinite basically called Sonic Jesus. If your going to lean and be dependent on someone's legacy, at least do it on that guy lol.

Every character in this franchise has a keen understanding of what Sonic means to the world as a whole. Even Shadow has come to understand - which should stand for a lot. You can debate on the need for such a disposition in this franchise is neccesary, but I'm not about to throw shade on characters for jumping under the mantle of their best under the times of their worst crisis.

 

 

I throw this out there while I am at it. I don't have a problem with the idea of a resistance. I think it was appropriate considering the circumstances (no Sonic, heroes getting pushed back) and it was the only course of action to take in the face of an Eggman Empire. The series always preaches teamwork save for the times when Sonic carries the burdens alone because he is so great. With no Sonic, teamwork was the obvious solution.

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15 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Infinite basically called Sonic Jesus. If your going to lean and be dependent on someone's legacy, at least do it on that guy lol.

Puts my head in my hands

There are so many holes in that story oh my god

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Every character in this franchise has a keen understanding of what Sonic means to the world as a whole.

Eh? I don't really think so

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Even Shadow has come to understand - which should stand for a lot.

Not really though, in fact his recent characterizations has him actively backing off of accepting sonic at all. I don't think any of the characters have " understand what sonic means "

They just...stop doing things. Which is the problem with the narrative. shadow could have ended the plot like...2 seconds in the game. But he just...doesn't appear because ...sonic needs to do it. Like they never prove why they should be this way, they just...are this way and its not great. And just makes them look largely useless.

if I can harken back to silver...for no reason just not using the powers that he has had since his debut to let sonic save him. This isn't representative of anything. This is a failure of writing

Quote

 

You can debate on the need for such a disposition in this franchise is neccesary, but I'm not about to throw shade on characters for jumping under the mantle of their best under the times of their worst crisis.

I am, it sucks and it makes the characters useless. And it makes sonic himself look kinda fucking lame for hanging out with them.

Quote

 

 

I throw this out there while I am at it. I don't have a problem with the idea of a resistance. I think it was appropriate considering the circumstances (no Sonic, heroes getting pushed back) and it was the only course of action to take in the face of an Eggman Empire. The series always preaches teamwork save for the times when Sonic carries the burdens alone because he is so great. With no Sonic, teamwork was the obvious solution.

I don't think so. Because to be honest , i think mad characters body eggman free even if sonic's not around. One of those characters being shadow, who ... they just vanish that character from the narrative because he was strong and literally couldn't figure out what to do with him. That plot hole, silvers fumble, the characters being held in a room. Is a literal admission that they could not come up with a reason to justify any number of these characters beating the crap out of eggman even with infinite and had to create a bunch of story contrivances to get this shit to work.

This isn't even the best version of the whole team work angle. Which is my problem with your justification. Infinite has the power to create illusions , why on gods green earth did they just not do a story where he just created illusions of other characters and had them say and do bad shit and got them to hate each other. And that what allows eggman to win. Not only does that make everyone look good. It allows buddy to find sonic and use him as the connective tissue mending friendships and creating the huge sonic team that would eventually take down eggman. And bonus,you had carte blanche to have characters air out their grievances to one another. His value isn't being the best, his value is being a cool dude who you can rely  on and it would make everyone look good.

This is what was presented was a bunch of story contrivances to make sonic and infinite look cool, and fails to do .

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Puts my head in my hands

There are so many holes in that story oh my god

Are you questioning the power of Sonic's legacy on the masses? Cause I don't think you'll have a leg to stand on if that's the route you want to go down.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh? I don't really think so

Please elaborate.

The only characters that don't understand what Sonic is are the extremely isolated ones, and even they come around after a short bit of interaction.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 I don't think any of the characters have " understand what sonic means "

"You'll always be our Shining Hope"

"Maybe such a thing would be possible - if HE were still alive"

"I believe in you Sonic"

"I think the Ultimate Life Form might be you"

 

hmm.... yeah. I think they understand he's the hero of this story. The one that makes the impossible possible. The miracle man.

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

They just...stop doing things. Which is the problem with the narrative. shadow could have ended the plot like...2 seconds in the game. But he just...doesn't appear because ...sonic needs to do it. Like they never prove why they should be this way, they just...are this way and its not great. And just makes them look largely useless.

We didn't even see how the Eggman Empire sacked the planet. The game conveniently skipped over that. The Heroes didn't stop doing things, they just lost off screen. We know for a fact that they kept fighting the good fight. They were in active combat protocols when they first discovered Sonic was still alive, and we know from the comics that there was extensive conflict and several battlezones with high casualty rates. Silver himself said he almost died fighting in one such battle, and Whisper saved him.

So you can't try to spin the narrative that they just sat on their hands in Sonic's absence. Rouge was out seeking intel. The Chaotix were out on the front lines. Silver was fighting.

Should the narrative of the game be blamed for not showing all this? Yes. But it did happen.

Both Sonic and Shadow previously failed to stop Infinite. Its not a surprise that the rest of the cast would fair just as poorly.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I am, it sucks and it makes the characters useless. And it makes sonic himself look kinda fucking lame for hanging out with them.

Loosing to a super-powered being with an extreme advantage doesn't make you useless. Not being able to fight an unbalanced war doesn't make you useless.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think so. Because to be honest , i think mad characters body eggman free even if sonic's not around.

Eggman wasn't even the problem here.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

One of those characters being shadow, who ... they just vanish that character from the narrative because he was strong and literally couldn't figure out what to do with him. That plot hole, silvers fumble, the characters being held in a room. Is a literal admission that they could not come up with a reason to justify any number of these characters beating the crap out of eggman even with infinite and had to create a bunch of story contrivances to get this shit to work.

Silver tried to stop Infinite and fared about as well as Sonic and Shadow. Why is that a problem?

Shadow's absence is a gaping plot hole, but even he couldn't do much to stop Infinite until Rouge was able to crack the code on what he was to give the resistance an actual target to fight back against. They were spinning their tires until they started making plans to attack the rubies power source. Anything else they would have done, Shadow or no Shadow, would have been a waste of time.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

This isn't even the best version of the whole team work angle. Which is my problem with your justification. Infinite has the power to create illusions , why on gods green earth did they just not do a story where he just created illusions of other characters and had them say and do bad shit and got them to hate each other. And that what allows eggman to win. Not only does that make everyone look good. It allows buddy to find sonic and use him as the connective tissue mending friendships and creating the huge sonic team that would eventually take down eggman. And bonus,you had carte blanche to have characters air out their grievances to one another. His value isn't being the best, his value is being a cool dude who you can rely  on and it would make everyone look good.

This is what was presented was a bunch of story contrivances to make sonic and infinite look cool, and fails to do .

Any number of possible alternatives could have been better than what we got. I've never implied otherwise. My point is conceptually, the Resistance model can work for this situation. Having the heroes band together to make their last stand fits the narrative theme of the franchise and sells the desperation of the situation. The six month time skip did the narrative no favors.

and for all the talk of playing up Sonic and Infinite you do, it was Silver and Rouge who end up saving the day here. Where is the credit for them?

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@Sega DogTagz

I orginally had a big ol' post but I think i'm gonna cut it here. Most of the stuff I have said on forces, I said before. And if you choose to take this games narrative ( in the looses sense of that word )at face value, do you.

You also bring up the ultimate life form thing , but you know darn well whatever that was supposed to be got retconned and shadow the "ULF " so to speak.

So i'm gonna end this on this. I don't think resistance story lines like this work for sonic. Whether it be a band of freedom fighters or a bunch of people held up due to a zombie virus. This sort of story telling inherently removes the interesting individuality and characterization that sells people on these characters and to make forces function, you kind of needed to do that. And I don't think its good or works for sonic.

I don't the story proves itself enough for me the audience member to believe any of it happened. Its filled with plot contrivances. ( One of which you accidentally mentioned. I'm gonna need you to look at that shadow and rouge thing you typed. Because you are almost there, you almost figured out what's wrong. You are almost to the finish line )

But to connect it back to this comic and sonic in general. Consdering sega is moving past this as fast as they are, I don't think sega wants you to believe this game happened either.

 

 

 

 

 

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The delay is really quite irritating, I’ve been looking forward to this issue for ages. But what can you do about it? Nothing really.

Regardless, thus far only Sonic has been partially affected and Charmy and Shadow have fully succumbed to the virus. Oh, and those chao. That doesn’t seem like a lot of heroes considering we’re supposedly almost at the end of the main zombot arc. Really curious what will happen at ‘the last minute’.

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4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

@Sega DogTagz

I orginally had a big ol' post but I think i'm gonna cut it here. Most of the stuff I have said on forces, I said before. And if you choose to take this games narrative ( in the looses sense of that word )at face value, do you.

You also bring up the ultimate life form thing , but you know darn well whatever that was supposed to be got retconned and shadow the "ULF " so to speak.

So i'm gonna end this on this. I don't think resistance story lines like this work for sonic. Whether it be a band of freedom fighters or a bunch of people held up due to a zombie virus. This sort of story telling inherently removes the interesting individuality and characterization that sells people on these characters and to make forces function, you kind of needed to do that. And I don't think its good or works for sonic.

 

It could work fine if you leaned harder with the natural discord and division that comes with individuals working together. Figure out how characters would handle situations differently and what compromises they could reach. 

The freedom fighters as written by Ian understood this on some level but Sonic Forces doesn't. It'd be okay to put the Sonic characters on a team but we need to see more of their individuality and what kind of friction that could cause 

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2 hours ago, Wraith said:

It could work fine if you leaned harder with the natural discord and division that comes with individuals working together. Figure out how characters would handle situations differently and what compromises they could reach. 

The freedom fighters as written by Ian understood this on some level but Sonic Forces doesn't. It'd be okay to put the Sonic characters on a team but we need to see more of their individuality and what kind of friction that could cause 

You know what, that's fair.

I don't think the team working on these games now would be capable of such things, but you are correct. Friction would be interesting, and I even said myself " it would be cool if some characters did not like eachother". I guess, in my head I'm pre-nerfing ideas because I'm accounting for Sonic teams faults.

 

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