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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I listened to the 100 question Q&A podcast at work and made sure I had a pen and paper so I could jot down timestamps and questions of interest for you guys... only to see you all already talking about it. Doesn't normally happen so I was caught off guard.

The thing that interested me the most was him having more freedom with Sonic and Eggman than Shadow and Germel. Thats something I held suspicion about considering just how different Eggman is here than in the games. Its almost a complete carry over from the Archie days.

Meanwhile Shadow is clearly different and while I don't remember much about Archie Germel I'm told he's different too.

I really like Kyle's reaction to hearing all the stuff that doesn't make sense.

Ian: I have more freedom with Sonic and Eggman than characters like Shadow and Germel.

Kyle: ... That's... weird. You'd think it'd be the other way around...

And also.

Ian: There's no money in the Sonic world.

Kyle: What? Huh? That doesn't make any sense!

I can only hope that by "no money" they mean "they use rings" or something.

Also love how many times he expresses disapproval with Forces' story. Its nice hearing that from someone who works on something like this. Those Sonic livestreams Aaron does are sometimes fun but mostly pretty boring and too tight lipped about everything. I understand why that is but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

Anyway, always keep an ear to the floor when one of these comes out. You never know what you might learn.

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4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Why obsess about the Chaotix being the only ones needing money! It's just a joke! They're detectives, they want money.

Nothing deep.

It's pointless compared to the 2-world/classic-modern/super emerald debate.

No one's "obsessing" over it. Stop exaggerating.

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31 minutes ago, Razule said:

Yeah, I was really curious about that.. why would Gemerl have more restrictions than Sonic? He barely even had a personality in his one and only appearance.

People might not know who Emerl da Gemerl is...

Sega wants their first impression to be a good one.

Or a non-impression, maybe. Can't have people wanting this character back.

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4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Meanwhile Shadow is clearly different and while I don't remember much about Archie Germel I'm told he's different too.

Gmerl's personality basically replaced Shard after he got the boot via the purge. Snarky Quick-Witted Sonic-y Robot. Shard was popular so watching his proxy get neutered back to basic robot in the jump to IDW is kinda jarring.

 

On the freedom note. I can understand Sega being more protective of Shadow. They have first had experience of what happens with him when his narrative gets out of control (Shth) or is left incomplete (Boom). Being defensive over him could be an end result of being too trigger happy in the past (lol see what I did there).

Gmerl's restrictions probably have more to do with lore. Whether it be a retcon or just downplaying lore in general, Gmerl's connection to Emerl makes him a direct link to the most lore heavy game in the franchise. There is a lot of content in Sonic Battle that Sega may not be keen in carrying forward, so they may try to limit Gmerl as a result. Kind of like Nega, they may be happy just ignoring the problem as much as possible rather than addressing it.

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Gmerl's personality basically replaced Shard after he got the boot via the purge. Snarky Quick-Witted Sonic-y Robot. Shard was popular so watching his proxy get neutered back to basic robot in the jump to IDW is kinda jarring.

 

On the freedom note. I can understand Sega being more protective of Shadow. They have first had experience of what happens with him when his narrative gets out of control (Shth) or is left incomplete (Boom). Being defensive over him could be an end result of being too trigger happy in the past (lol see what I did there).

I don't think ShTh is a good example...because he's kinda that just with out purpose.On no team, antagonistic to everyone and only out for his own goals and only works with people if it benefits him.  Also the guy who's in charge of sonic team, headed that game. For me personally I don't think is fear of shadow getting out of control, I think the guy(s) in charge have a very specifc limited view of what shadow is supposed to be. And even back in sa2, there were just writers around to fix it, and they kept fixing it writers/translators ect. And now those people aren't around anymore and shadow's back in some prominence  and the lack of those people steering that ...motorcycle? Is noticeable.

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Gmerl's restrictions probably have more to do with lore. Whether it be a retcon or just downplaying lore in general, Gmerl's connection to Emerl makes him a direct link to the most lore heavy game in the franchise. There is a lot of content in Sonic Battle that Sega may not be keen in carrying forward, so they may try to limit Gmerl as a result. Kind of like Nega, they may be happy just ignoring the problem as much as possible rather than addressing it.

I don't think they are keen about carrying sonic battle forward in general. Which sucks because its neat.

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

On the freedom note. I can understand Sega being more protective of Shadow. They have first had experience of what happens with him when his narrative gets out of control (Shth) or is left incomplete (Boom). Being defensive over him could be an end result of being too trigger happy in the past (lol see what I did there).

I don't know. Its hard not to just see this as an extension of what they were already doing with Shadow. It kind of just feels like whatever vision they have for him keeps changing.

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You know,  I don't really think Knukles as leader was THAT bad idea. Obviously not perfect, but I can see some logic behind it. I mean, how many times you see main hero (like IDK, Sonic) getting to be the leader, despite how little experience he has.

Obviously best choices (Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, Sally Acorn) were for different reasons unavailable. But why pick Knuckles over Amy, Vector or Rouge?

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

I wouldn't go as far as calling Knuckles figurehead, but I imagine his stubborn tenacity was fundamentals for Resistance. Boosting morals, teaching rookies, leading bigger battle, making quick decisions in heated moments. But all major tactical moves were decided by group (like Amy stopping Knuckles from going on field before one of last missions). At least that's what I would like it to be, as Sega won't give a damn and Flynn just gave up.

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22 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

When has Sonic ever been the leader of anything?

He'll be the "lead" because he's the fastest, but he ain't giving order or coming up with plans for a team.

I believe he did lead Team Freedom briefly during the Mecha Sally arc. He chose to have everyone put out fires in a village instead of blindly running after Sally. 

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2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know,  I don't really think Knukles as leader was THAT bad idea. obviously not perfect, but I can see some logic behind it. I mean, how many times you see main hero (like IDK, Sonic) getting to be the leader, despite how little experience he has.

Obviously best choices (Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, Sally Acorn) were for different reasons unavailable). But why pick Knuckles over Amy, Vector or Rouge?

 

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

I wouldn't go as far as calling Knuckles figurehead, but I imagine his stubborn tenacity was fundamentals for Resistance. Boosting morals, teaching rookies, leading bigger battle, making quick decisions in heated moments. But all major tactical moves were decided by group (like Amy stopping Knuckles from going on field before one of last missions). At least that's what I would like it to be, as Sega won't give a damn and Flynn just gave up.

I actually want to comment on this, I think this line of thinking is flawed. You ever watch Attack on Titian. I'm not gonna spoil it for you, but it craps on this entire idea. Simply put, leadership can be learned. It is a learned skill. It is something that can be acquired through experience over a short period of time, all the other traits amy or tails has over Knuckles...can't. And I would personally make the argument that knuckles needs those skills to lead effectively. So if the characters has all that other stuff, but doesn't quite know how to bring it together to be a leader, you put them in a position for them to learn howto be a leader. And IMO tails learning how to be a leader in a story line where he has to learn how to be independent and put the pieces together, sounds infinitely more interesting as a narrative than knuckles being the leader of anything. Same with a lot of sonic characters. Not dumping on you or nothing , but knuckles IMO is a really bad choice. 

Knuckles is a recluse who I feel doesn't really work in large groups, even among his immediate friend group he's still kind of a dense weirdo , let a lone of a whole army. You can learn how to be a leader, Knuckles can't learn how to be tails...or amy or anyone else with the personality , character traits or outright people experience that would allow him to be an effective leader. Like maybe if there was some whole arc where knuckles learned and grew and became a more well rounded person not interns of being nice but his way of thinking, then sure. But as it stands, he's aztech fuzzy lumpkins. And Like yeah , i'm calling fuzzy if i'm in a scrap . I'm not following him anywhere

And this kinda leads me to my last point. I think the reason why this sort of choosing a leader logic is flawed, it ignores trust. Part of being a leader is people trust you and its seems a lot of people in the fanbase don't trust knuckles to do anything. Heck even amy doesn't trust him in forces and jokes about it. I kinda don't trust knuckles to do most things besides punch and find treasure. His whole deal is that he's gullible and bad at his job. And all the traits that you have listed aren't unique to him, and the other characters who do have that actually have better other traits to make them better leaders.

For me personally looking at it as just a narrative thing, I don't really see the logic in making knuckles the leader. It just seems like the rest of the game, corporate. He's a cool rival boy character and the other one is busy. So that one, the kids like that one.

Also Batman leads the justice league all the time? Like all the time? Like it happens frequently and other smart people do it too. The " leader " of that team changes depending on what that story is about.

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20 hours ago, Razule said:

We didn't even know animal people had a society until Forces.Rings could be part of a barter system.

We've known they had a society since Sonic 1, which had two different cities. And if rings are part of a barter system, doesn't that make them currency?

20 hours ago, Razule said:

Maybe the Chaotix live on the human world. This would explain that one time in the Sonic X comic where Eggman was perplexed by the idea of money.

Sonic X isn't canon, the comic even less so.

6 hours ago, StaticMania said:

When has Sonic ever been the leader of anything?

He'll be the "lead" because he's the fastest, but he ain't giving order or coming up with plans for a team.

He's the leader of Team Sonic. Why do you think it's named after him?

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15 hours ago, Ellipsis-Ultima said:

So uh, no main issue this month. Coming October 2nd.

On the bright side we should get two issues that day...

Nope, it means Tangle & Whisper will have to be delayed 1 week too to give room for sales of the main issue.

So October 9 (!!) For T&W issue 3!! Instead of... September 18 original release date

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12 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know,  I don't really think Knukles as leader was THAT bad idea. obviously not perfect, but I can see some logic behind it. I mean, how many times you see main hero (like IDK, Sonic) getting to be the leader, despite how little experience he has.

Obviously best choices (Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Blaze, Sally Acorn) were for different reasons unavailable). But why pick Knuckles over Amy, Vector or Rouge?

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

I wouldn't go as far as calling Knuckles figurehead, but I imagine his stubborn tenacity was fundamentals for Resistance. Boosting morals, teaching rookies, leading bigger battle, making quick decisions in heated moments. But all major tactical moves were decided by group (like Amy stopping Knuckles from going on field before one of last missions). At least that's what I would like it to be, as Sega won't give a damn and Flynn just gave up.

I think we're also forgetting the fact that Knuckles comes from a warrior tribe, and may have better understanding in regards to the fundamentals of war and war-related tactics. I always felt like, rather than just Amy, Knuckles should have been contributing more in the tactician area, whereas Amy could also do so, but was more of the morale booster of the resistance, who also pointed out the occasional flaws in Knux's logic. Vector's a good detective, and I do think he's got good leadership qualities, but I feel like Knuckles is the type who might understand war better given his heritage. And would be more likely to make decisions in battle Vector would sooner hesitate towards.

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Its also worth mentioning exactly what they were up against in terms of selecting a leader. Not only does Knux have the most experience dealing with Eggman outside of Sonic and Tails, but Infinite posed a unique threat in the form of fear. People were afraid of him and what he could do. The leader of the resistance had to be someone who could dependably stand up to that fear. Even Espio was referring to him as a "monster".  Knux is probably the safest and best choice on that front.

There is no one type of leadership style, and there a ton of ways to get the job done.

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3 hours ago, Rosaleia said:

I think we're also forgetting the fact that Knuckles comes from a warrior tribe, and may have better understanding in regards to the fundamentals of war and war-related tactics. I always felt like, rather than just Amy, Knuckles should have been contributing more in the tactician area, whereas Amy could also do so, but was more of the morale booster of the resistance, who also pointed out the occasional flaws in Knux's logic. Vector's a good detective, and I do think he's got good leadership qualities, but I feel like Knuckles is the type who might understand war better given his heritage. And would be more likely to make decisions in battle Vector would sooner hesitate towards.

I don't really feel like it matters what tribe Knuckles comes from, honestly. Looking over the information we have about Knuckles, most of his character deals with the fact that he's isolated. He doesn't even really seem to know that much about his tribe's past or fully understands why he needs to guard the Emerald. I don't see how he'd have any understanding of the fundamentals of war or war-related tactics. I could see Knuckles in a trainer position for new recruits or the leader of a specific platoon of people but an entire army seems out of his wheelhouse. 

I also don't know how more likely he would be to make tough decisions than Vector. I'm not sure why Vector would hesitate towards anything. He doesn't give off the vibe of someone who'd have a tough time making the right call if it meant being pragmatic. Hell, we have a good example of that in this very comic where an infected woman was screaming for help and he instantly started slamming cars around her before refocusing on evacuation. He gave a little "I'm sorry" but that was it. 

Knuckles has qualities to him that a good leader could have, as do most of the characters honestly, but I do feel like most of what makes Knuckles stand-out as an odd choice for a leader are the things about him that make him uniquely not fit to be leader. I do find his origin of isolation and tendency to want to take care of things on his own as well as his questionable intelligence and proficient gullibility to be things that stick out more than they would for someone like Amy or Vector.

Though to be honest, I don't feel like the characters should be huddled together in an army at all. They should have done what they did in Shadow's game again. Have them be separated, doing what they can with their own objectives, while GUN handles the military stuff... but GUNs not a thing on "Sonic's World" so whatever.

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17 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Really for same reasons in Steven Universe, it's Garnet who's in charge even if Pearl is smarter. There are many qualities other that brains, like being able to take the pressure. Vector is good person, but I don't think he's capable of holding world on his shoulders. (Amy is arguable on this front, but I could imagine death of Sonic would affect her more than Knux). And Rouge isn't a leader for same reason Black Widow never rarely leads Avengers. Or why Superman leads Justice League, not Batman. Let's say they don't have people skills. (Also, Rouge was needed in field. Spying was much more important than extra fists).

Well, the argument was never just about intelligence anyway. That's one of the factors but I do feel like all of the other stuff you need to be a leader is being accounted for when questioning whether Knuckles is a good fit or not. Personally, I don't feel like Knuckles is. He really would be one of the last people I'd go to when it comes to asking him to lead... anything.

I don't even know if Pearl actually is smarter than Garnet. They both seemed equally intelligent to me. Pearl was just a lot more dainty while Garnet was a lot more hard and straight-forward. I don't know. Maybe Rebecca Sugar confirmed that and I missed it. 

I also don't have any proof that Vector wouldn't be able to handle the position if it meant the world was riding on it. Why is Amy arguable be he isn't? Probably just comes down to what your personal perception of the character is.

Vector seems like the best choice to me. He's got leadership experience as he already runs some kind of an agency. He's in a position where stressful situations would most likely crop up a lot more frequently (even if the scale of danger isn't as big in comparison should one crop up for Knuckles). He's shown that he can be tough and pragmatic when it comes to doing what needs to be done despite being a bit of a softie underneath his rough exterior. And when it actually comes down to intelligence I feel like it would probably go without saying that he's got that over Knuckles too.

So pick your poison I guess. Though, again, I'd rather they just didn't take the Resistance angle at all. 

 

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It’s not like Knuckles being a leader of some kind isn’t plausible—he was more or less the leader of the Chaotix in Archie pre-Reboot.

The problem is really on the development—Archie!Knuckles was developed to the point where he earned the position to lead a group of his own. Game!Knuckles and IDW!Knuckles which follows suit, hasn’t had such development, and so it comes off as him leading out of the blue when nothing he’s done up to that point that makes enough sense to place him as a leader.

And if we’re talking about leadership just in terms of who has the guts to face Infinite, then by all rights the leader should have more or less been Silver instead of Knuckles, but he certainly isn’t looked at as the best choice either if you take his development into account.

To be honest, Vector wasn’t anywhere close to the first person I’d assume as someone to be the leader of the Resistance off the bat, but taking everything about him into account—guy was apparently the least fazed of his team to realize it was Dr. Eggman who hired him in Heroes (and not a major hothead like Knuckles), never mind the risk he took accepting the job in the first place, on top of the fact that he knows how to run an organization (however small or struggling it is)—he’s actually one of the better choices looking back compared to Knuckles.

If anything, Knuckles would’ve been better suited out on the field engaging directly in guerilla warfare setting traps and causing mayhem on Eggman’s forces, because that’s far more suiting for a tribal warrior like him that’s more willing to jump into fights.

As if Forces couldn’t show enough of how much it wasted its ambition.

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I know how to solve this. 

We throw all the candidates for leader into a holding pen and give them a sword. Whoever comes out alive gets to be leader.

Now that has the unfortunate side-effect of leaving all the people you would lead as deceased BUT you get to face the epic challenge of figuring out how to lead a group of dead people into battle. Anyone who can do that would undoubtedly be proven to be the best leader.

Or make Charmy the leader and watch him draw up battle plans in crayon. 

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Vector was probably the person on-hand with the best qualities to lead the group as a whole. Despite his goofish exterior, he has been shown to have a really good head on his shoulders. He's bright, quick-witted and plays his cards close to his chest, even among his own allies. He'll make hard choices and he has an almost precognitive sense of the big picture. He's also one of the few adults in a room full of children which has to account for something.

 

Knuckles was the last man standing of Team Sonic tho. Its also worth mentioning that promoting him as a beacon of hope would be the easiest way to channel some of the "Sonic mojo" that they no longer had access to with Big Blue out of the picture. If the name of the game was to inspire resistance, you'd want to tie yourself to Sonic's legacy as much as humanly possible. With Tails out of the picture, that can only fall to Knuckles...

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