Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[DabigRG]

On 10/4/2019 at 4:03 PM, Eurisko said:

Read 21 earlier and I hope we get to see a version of the Zeti that we should have got in Lost World.

In what sense?

3 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Maybe a Chaotix miniseries, or Silver & Blaze, or Knuckles (even if him alone, would be unlikely because you know who), or Team Dark...

Those are the obvious ones, though Silver and Blaze haven't really been done.

3 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

Ick not another Knuckles or Shadow/Team Dark Mini series. They dominated Sonic Universe. I'd take anyone else. Whether Tails, Blaze, Eggman, Starline, Team Rose or Amy & Cream, Rough & Tumble, Babylon Rogues, hell I'd even take an Infinite mini series if he was allowed. Just anything but them again even if it is a new continuity. I think the only thing I wouldn't take over that is Deadly Shits mini series considering my heavy dislike of them.

Or we can have mini series that have bizarre pairings that change everything up. Like Shadow & Tails or Cream. Omega, Gemerl, and Cream. Rouge and Tangle. Sonic and Starline. Knuckles and Silver. Something like that I think would be neat. Just throwing together contrasting or similar but not really delved into pairings to give something new.

Huh. You know what, that would be a cool idea. We briefly got tastes of those in Universe as well, but I don't think we got full stories aside from Knuckles and Shadow(which they arguably overdid). 

2 hours ago, Dr Egg-Gin said:

It'll probably be team Dark. 

Unfortunately. I suppose that's the only way to really improve Shadow right now. 

[Shadowlax]

6 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

So I guess this is new model. Instead of Sonic Universe well get miniseries, after miniseries. I know MLP does that for over a year now and I think TMNT does too.

That's what I figure. And they don't have to be confined to 4 issues. They can effectively be as long as short as they want it to be depending on how things do. And relatively isolated depending

[Wraith]

Fingers crossed for a Shadow or Blaze miniseries.

[Marco9966]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Fingers crossed for a Shadow or Blaze miniseries.

Hopefully Evan Stanley or Diana Skelly do the second miniseries

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Fingers crossed for a Shadow or Blaze miniseries.

It will never happen, but when said that Imagined it being in the style of a Miami vice or like crime drama show . And they are wearing crazy suits with shades

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Unfortunately. I suppose that's the only way to really improve Shadow right now. 

Eh? Sega's mandates regarding the series in general right now are confusing. And i'm not one to defend a giant corporation, what happened to shadow I feel like was a combo effort. Sega has perimeters, they didn't make Ian Flynn write the scenario's he did and to be blunt I feel like other writers could have pulled it off. It is a criticism I have had of flynn for years, but one of his biggest flaws is his inability to sort of let go of story ideas. Even if he is told by the higher ups something isn't bueno, he's just go on with an altered version of it that may not actually work.

I feel like he can make this shadow work, if he would be willing to sometimes just kind of give up on forcing the overarching narrative if its failing the characters on an individual level. If something doesn't work throw it out and work on something that works on an individual level.

But if we are considering he just doesn't want to do that, I guess thats the only way to make him work. Though if i'm being honest, the lack of adaptability is a failure on his part

 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Any writer (or anyone planning anything really) can tell you that letting go of story ideas is a bad idea. You never know when they might turn out useful—hence the Metal Virus arc that was supposed to be used for Archie.

If an idea doesn’t work, you find out why it didn’t work and make steps to improve it or find alternatives. It’s no different from the Scientific Method—you never know when it actually will work sometime in the future when holding on to notes could be handy.

[Shadowlax]

11 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Any writer (or anyone planning anything really) can tell you that letting go of story ideas is a bad idea. You never know when they might turn out useful—hence the Metal Virus arc that was supposed to be used for Archie.

If an idea doesn’t work, you find out why it didn’t work and make steps to improve it or find alternatives. It’s no different from the Scientific Method—you never know when it actually will work sometime in the future when holding on to notes could be handy.

Letting go of story ideas doesn't mean letting it go forever or not understanding why it isn't working. Its coming to the conclusion it isn't working now and moving on and possibly using it later. I never said " don't think about it ever again " I just said let it go for now. Along with that...writers let go of story ideas all the time? People working in creative fields let go of premises all the time, it happens often in say video games. Also people let go of ideas often in comic books? Like...very often. Like the wildly changing nature of capebooks is a meme.

They don't stop thinking about it forever. But they go " Oh hey thor on film isn't working as a serious character right now , what about if we let that go and make him a giant goofball " and then it works. Sometimes things work better when you let go of the preconceived notion you approached the idea with, and then come at it from a different angle. Maybe one day we can come back to serious thor  , but for now. This works because they let that go.

[Eurisko]

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

In what sense?

In the sense that they can come of as a legitimate threat rather than comedic , and lets face it after Lost World, Forces and Team Sonic Racing Zavok in particular could do with some credibility.

[dbzfan7]

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Huh. You know what, that would be a cool idea. We briefly got tastes of those in Universe as well, but I don't think we got full stories aside from Knuckles and Shadow(which they arguably overdid).

Which is why I really don't want yet another do over of past sins. Do we honestly need to retread water we already covered...again...so soon. There's plenty else to cover before we do that.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

I wonder if we'll get a miniseries that focuses on Blaze having an adventure on her own in the Sol Dimension, while the metal virus thing is happening in Sonic's world. Maybe introduce Eggman Nega if he isnt off limits here.

[Diogenes]

Nah bring back Captain Whisker, the actually-good alternate Eggman.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Nah bring back Captain Whisker, the actually-good alternate Eggman.

Yeah him too and Johnny

[Heckboy]

Nah, Nega is epic. I hope they can use him.

[Dr. Detective]

Going from something as risky as Tangle and Whisper to something that'd be a surefire success like Shadow, Knuckles, or Blaze would be expected.

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

That'd be me however. He'll probably go for the more expected ones. No need to have your fingers crossed for those if these mini series continue.

[Fire-N-Space]

Zavok and friends are the best things I've seen so far in this comic. 

[Wraith]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Going from something as risky as Tangle and Whisper to something that'd be a surefire success like Shadow, Knuckles, or Blaze would be expected.

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

That'd be me however. He'll probably go for the more expected ones. No need to have your fingers crossed for those if these mini series continue.

The only reason I didn't put on for Rouge first is because I doubt she'll ever get one.

[Shadowlax]

45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only reason I didn't put on for Rouge first is because I doubt she'll ever get one.

I would hope personally, new shadow would allow for this. Something I have wanted for quite sometime was  an team dark to sort of...break up. I made note even back during the archie reboot days that team dark did not feel like a team. In a sense I feel a bit validated because it turns out the reason they didn't back during the archie reboot is because Ian Flynn admitted to being told... they weren't essentially.  So having these characters finally break up be their own people would be interesting. Maybe rouge being involved in issue 6 comes around and they sort of don't team up no more because they had a big ol' fight. Leaving omega with depression alone with robo depression

What I have come to realize though , despite me wanting a rouge thing is that I don't know if people are interested enough in the character herself to actually buy somethig focused on her. And i can kinda see them not doing it because of that. i hope i'm wrong though

[DabigRG]

9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh? Sega's mandates regarding the series in general right now are confusing. And i'm not one to defend a giant corporation, what happened to shadow I feel like was a combo effort. Sega has perimeters, they didn't make Ian Flynn write the scenario's he did and to be blunt I feel like other writers could have pulled it off. It is a criticism I have had of flynn for years, but one of his biggest flaws is his inability to sort of let go of story ideas. Even if he is told by the higher ups something isn't bueno, he's just go on with an altered version of it that may not actually work.

I feel like he can make this shadow work, if he would be willing to sometimes just kind of give up on forcing the overarching narrative if its failing the characters on an individual level. If something doesn't work throw it out and work on something that works on an individual level.

But if we are considering he just doesn't want to do that, I guess thats the only way to make him work. Though if i'm being honest, the lack of adaptability is a failure on his part

 

 

Uh, what do you mean? I don't think somethings correlating here.

 

7 hours ago, Eurisko said:

In the sense that they can come of as a legitimate threat rather than comedic , and lets face it after Lost World, Forces and Team Sonic Racing Zavok in particular could do with some credibility.

They're supposed to be a combination of the two, but I get ya.

Except Zavok, funnily enough. In his case, he's in the most need of some fleshing out on top of slight rerailing.

6 hours ago, Pumpkin Spice Ultima said:

I wonder if we'll get a miniseries that focuses on Blaze having an adventure on her own in the Sol Dimension, while the metal virus thing is happening in Sonic's world. Maybe introduce Eggman Nega if he isnt off limits here.

Yeah, hopefully. Cause that's something she never truly got.

5 hours ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

 

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

So many neat ideas, so little time.

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Zavok and friends are the best things I've seen so far in this comic. 

They've only been in like one comic thus far. And it was just Zor.

I see your point, though.

[Shadowlax]

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Uh, what do you mean? I don't think somethings correlating here.

 

 

Sorry if i'm rambling. I don't think a miniseries is the only thing to fix shadow. I think the writer we have as much as I enjoy his work would rather force characters down an unfortunate road than try and warp his story to fix the characters. I have felt like he's always been like that, I feel like that's the same thing that made the werehog arc in the reboot hella boring. Its what made some of his continuations after his take over of the pre-boot kinda weird and bad. I think this shadow can be worked with and fixed fine, not the best version of the character, but things can be done. But he doesn't want to do those things, he really wants to tell a very specific kind of story and if sega tells him know he's still try to force it out... even if it isn't great. I feel like him ....just telling a different story and be willing to adapt could yield a better comic. But unfortunately , he doesn't want to .

So I guess you could think a miniseries would be the only way to fix him. I don't think, I think one of the things Ian Flynn can do to fix shadow, is adapt

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Nah bring back Captain Whisker, the actually-good alternate Eggman.

 

6 hours ago, Pumpkin Spice Ultima said:

Yeah him too and Johnny

Null Mind would've been great, even if he was initially more of a plot convenience.

6 hours ago, Heckboy said:

Nah, Nega is epic. I hope they can use him.

It still hurts that we never got much exploration or payoff of his multiversal war.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sorry if i'm rambling. I don't think a miniseries is the only thing to fix shadow. I think the writer we have as much as I enjoy his work would rather force characters down an unfortunate road than try and warp his story to fix the characters.

I think this shadow can be worked with and fixed fine, not the best version of the character, but things can be done. But he doesn't want to do those things, he really wants to tell a very specific kind of story and if sega tells him know he's still try to force it out... even if it isn't great. I feel like him ....just telling a different story and be willing to adapt could yield a better comic. But unfortunately , he doesn't want to .

So I guess you could think a miniseries would be the only way to fix him. I don't think, I think one of the things Ian Flynn can do to fix shadow, is adapt

So what you're saying is, "He should've changed the story once SEGA made him change Shadow?" Okay.

I was thinking about how Shadow being "Sonic's Dark Rival" has been over 80% of his panel time thus far and it isn't working to say the least, so perhaps he should be given something else to do in order have something good to his name. And the obvious way would be given him his own story again.

Well that and starting to delve into Whisper's grudge towards him.

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

So what you're saying is, "He should've changed the story once SEGA made him change Shadow?"

To be blunt, yeah. Obviously this doesn't work every time. Sometimes Sega comes in last minute and are like " we don't like this " but shadow's characterization is something he's known for a while, and IIRC the writing he does gets pitched a great deal before people start drawing it. He was aware of what they wanted shadow to be, last year. With this knowledge I feel as though if you are gonna write a story about the character write one that works with what the character has to be rather than trying to force him to be something he can't , fail and make the character look really stupid. 

Obviously they can't predict everything. Like I said, sometimes it last minute and if that was the case in issue 19 then Sega fucked up. But if its clear that who they want shadow to be is incongruous with the story being told...then incorporate shadow a different way. Ian Flynn isn't the only person in comic books who has to deal with such things let a lone entertainment. Often times you get demands from on high, and you figure it out. That isn't to say that's easy.

To flynn's credit and to devil's advocate my own argument, contrary to the popular belief on the internet. I think sega's intention wasn't to make shadow more rivalry it was to " Protect shadow's brand/heat " much like in wrestling there are wrestlers who are basically protected kinda almost never loose and are viewed as unstoppable forces.  An example would hulk hogan back in his prime on of his few losses he would only take the loss if he got up right after the 3 count making it seem like the other person barely won. Or an example of someone with a demeanor closer to shadow, before it was taken away by Brock Lesnar, the undertaker several decade winning streak at wrestlemania. ( Though the latter is ironic because the undertake would often take losses when he had the title so he would boost other wrestlers because he was so popular it wouldn't matter ) . To get to my point of...dismantling part of my previous point and to defend Ian Flynn, that's a lot harder to deal with and I feel for him. Dealing with characterization at least to me is...easy. Dealing with a character who needs to be strong enough to body super individuals free while  not super himself is a bit harder. Now he has to come up with threats that don't allow for shadow to dissipate tension.

So do I think Ian Flynn should be open to going different routes in narrative? Yes

Do I think he is solely at fault? God no

Do I think this sort of thing plays into one of his flaws? Yes

Do I think he has it easy by any means? No, if anyone elses accounts of dealing with sega are indication no it is not easy.

I just think a lot of the criticism absolves Flynn and I don't think that's right to do , Ian flynn knew what the deal was last year. And if sega wants him to be a super powerful dick, then write a story even if he needs to be zombified that plays into him being a super powerful dick. He wrote something self sacrificial and which doesn't seem anywhere near the direction they want him in, for a few reasons. And then when the ending of that story got bopped he had to write a super powerful dick in a story meant for self sacrifice and its what we got.

So yeah kinda

 

 

 

[Celestia]

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

[DabigRG]

38 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

I know he said he intended on characterizing him differently, but that's about it. 

[Kuzu]

I'd certainly prefer a series focused on one of the lesser characters; I love Shadow and Knuckles as much as the next person, but even I'll admit they got really overexposed in Sonic Universe. Think they had the most arcs about them combined out of the entire series. 

 

I get they're popular, but jeez.